Challenges in Prosecuting Russell Brand Criminally 20 Years Later, with Marcia Clark & Mark Geragos

Let's move on to Russell Brand, because he's in a whole host of trouble dealing with a PR nightmare, at a minimum, that may be turning into a legal nightmare. So people know the story probably by now, but just in case you don't, three news organizations in the UK did a years-long investigation into him. They found four women who, as of now, remain anonymous, but gave very, very specific accounts of him allegedly sexually assaulting and, in one case, raping them. According to their allegations, he vehemently denies them all, though hasn't said much more since the details of the accusations have broken. Now we find out that the police over there in the UK are opening up an investigation. I want to get it correct. They have a specific unit, some extra tough unit, that's working with Scotland Yard detectives investigating allegations against Russell Brand, officers from Operation Hydrant, a specialist unit that was set up in 2014, supporting the Metropolitan Police with its investigation, urging anyone with allegations to speak to detectives. The reporters on the case say that women are coming forward to them, more new women day by day, and I'm sure they'll have follow-up reporting on this, but they say, at least So far, one woman has allegedly, additional woman, has allegedly come forward to the sexual assault police officers and claims that she was sexually assaulted by Brand back in 2003. I am trying to look for where that happened. In London, in London, in Soho in central London in 2003. So I mean, it's 20 years ago. Can I just ask, I mean, it's, you know, I haven't been defending Russell Brand on this program. I've been saying, let's keep an open mind because it certainly sounds like these women have a lot of evidence. Maybe they're lying. We'll find out, you know, big, big celebrity. We'll find out. But you know, there's no reason to knee jerk, just say they're not telling the truth as I've seen so many do. However, it's 20 years ago. Very hard to defend against, you know, this is what we kind of saw in Kavanaugh, right? Justice Kavanaugh, Mark, where it was like, how's the guy supposed to produce his little, you know, schedule? He was such a timekeeper. But his schedule and his whereabouts and remember all the events 30 years ago. This is why we have statutes of limitation. I don't know what they are in the UK for sexual assault or rape. But he's with respect to the criminal investigation right now in a very tough position. Well, and you've hit on precisely what is so, I think, offensive about these kind of look back statute of limitations or reinvigorating statute of limitations. We have one now in California, as Marcia knows, the look back law, which has sparked quite a bit of controversy. You know, there was a case out of California, California many years ago, Stagner, which involved the Catholic priest and the US Supreme Court said you couldn't do it for criminal or reinvigorate a statute of limitations that are already expired. They left it open for civil. We're coming on the heels of the Danny Masterson's second trial after a hung jury. We're coming on the heels of Kevin Spacey, both criminally and civilly, being accused, having the criminal dismissed and being vindicated in the civil. It's really a very tough situation to be in if you're the accused or defending the accused. Because one of the things that you do when you're defending people in these kinds of cases is you do a parallel investigation. You look for things that would corroborate. No, I didn't do it. No, I wasn't there. No, it was in real time. There was evidence that shows that there was no complaints. And those things are very difficult to find or unearth when you're talking about 20 years ago. And so I'm with you that I would keep an open mind on these things and allow them to, at least to defending them, to try to assemble and marshal whatever evidence they can and try to challenge these things. I would tell you that as reading it, I can already see where the defense is taking form. The things they're going to have to deal with is whether they're true or not, the text messages and things like that in real time that tend to at least support the accuser's idea that there was an immediate recognition in real time that he had crossed the line. That's a tough thing to have to deal with. Yes, that's a different case. Well, that's one of the four accusers who came forward to the news media quietly, anonymously, not the one who's actually appeared to have contacted the cops right now about 20 years earlier. One of the existing accusers in that report says that I think it was 10 years ago he sexually assaulted her in his apartment. They were dating. They had had consensual sex at least once prior. And she claims he wanted her to have a threesome. She said no. There was another woman in the apartment. He threw her against the wall. He had his way with her. And she has contemporaneous text messages complaining loudly to him about that exchange. And then that same day, she went to a rape crisis center where she reportedly got counseling for the next five months. She gave over her underwear, Marcia, to the rape crisis center and did all the things that you would expect a rape victim to do. Doesn't mean it was real. She's got text messages to him saying, how dare you? You scared the shit out of me. You're very scary. That look in your eyes, I've told you no means no. And him not saying, what are you saying? We had a consensual exchange. He's writing back, I'm so sorry, please forgive me. But anyway, can we just go to, so just to back up, my team just did a quick Google search and it says there is no statute of limitations in the UK for sexual assault. So they've made a decision over there to force men to defend these claims whenever they arise. I'm thinking about, can you imagine if I said to you, like, you got to go back 20 years and get your text messages? Your phone just erases them after a while. I know the cloud keeps them for some time, but I don't think the cloud keeps them forever. So it's very hard to defend. It is. I mean, text messages can help. And I've actually seen a number of murder cases that are proven through, in part, text messages, proof of intent anyway, because they do try to delete. Even if you try to delete messages, message to everybody, deleting does not mean it's gone forever or even at all. And so it may come off your phone, but that becomes almost more proof of your intent. So text messages are a problem for the defense and they can be a really a boon for the prosecution. When it comes to the criminal prosecution of these cases that are so old, I don't know what actually happens. I mean, having no statute of limitations means that a woman can come forward at any time and I'm all for letting the victims be heard and I'm all for justice. And airing these allegations, requiring the defense to come up with their side of the story, but I'm also in favor of fairness here. And it's a tough thing to defend when it's been 20 years since and there's no physical evidence to rely on. Text messages can certainly help, but I'm glad to see the women coming forward. I think I go beyond the criminal and I wonder, this is a man who's been working in the BBC and various other locations that were public. And you're telling me that these places didn't know what he was doing? We all know his kind of reputation, the way he behaves. He's an outrageous kind of guy and that he was running around after women, sexually harassing, possibly assaulting them. How could that not have been known to the BBC, Channel 4, et cetera? They had to know this. The staffers knew it, getting complaints from them now and they did nothing. Now they're cutting him off now. I mean, it's been 20 years that this has probably been going on. So I wonder where they were. Now that's a civil matter, not criminal. The criminal cases, as you both noted, has its problems because of the age of the charges. But there's a whole bigger world to think about in terms of the workplace environment. So a tree branch hit a power line in Ohio, 2003, and it shut down 21 power plants. And 100 people died. We have a power grid that was designed in the 1800s. Even the White House sees it. They're saying two thirds of the grid are at least 25 years old. So they recently announced billions of dollars to update it. And how long will that actually take? 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