How McCarthy's "Face the Nation" interview may have played a role in his downfall

No House Speaker has ever been ousted before, but it just happened to Kevin McCarthy, and it happened fast. Just Sunday on Face the Nation, McCarthy told me he doubted that a handful of Republicans would join with Democrats to oust him. Joining us this morning, the Speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy. Good morning. You've had a heck of a week. Yeah. There is a lot to get to with you. I want to start, though, on the news this morning from Congressman Matt Gaetz, who says he's going to seek a motion to vacate. He's going to try to oust you, Speaker of the House. That's nothing new. He's tried to do that from the moment I ran for office. Look. Well, this time he says he's going to keep going. May not get there before the 15th ballot, but it took 15 for Kevin McCarthy. He says he's coming for you. Can you survive? Yes, I'll survive. He made those comments shortly after drumming up bipartisan support for an 11th hour deal to keep the government funded for the next 45 days. He did have Republican support for it. In fact, a majority of Republicans joined 209 Democrats to approve it. But there was a divide among Republicans. Ninety of them voted against the deal, including all the hard right. And that's significant because things were already fraught between McCarthy and the far right ever since he was elected speaker, in particular, Florida Representative Matt Gaetz. He ultimately introduced the motion to oust McCarthy. You know, this is personal with Matt. Matt voted against the most conservative ability to protect our border, secure our border. He's more interested in securing TV interviews than doing something. He wanted to push us into a shutdown, even threatening his own district with all the military people there who would not be paid only because he wants to take this motion. So be it. Bring it on. Let's get over with it. And let's start governing. If he's upset because he tried to push us in a shutdown and I made sure government didn't shut down, then let's have that fight. You need 218 votes to vacate. Has Hakeem Jeffries, the Democratic leader, said that he will know what he hasn't said anything about what he's going to look like? Democrats could cross over and follow Gaetz's lead on this. Yeah. Look, Gaetz is trying to work with Democrats. He's reached out to Swalwell, the AOC and others. But if that's the way we're going to govern, I don't think America is going to be successful. Now, Gaetz argues it's not personal. He and other conservatives were unhappy McCarthy struck a deal with more support from Democrats than Republicans. But on Sunday morning, McCarthy didn't tout bipartisanship and said he went on the attack against Democrats on Face the Nation. Most of the press probably thought we would have shut down yesterday, too. But no, we did not. Were you confident we wouldn't shut down? I was confident I could get something on the floor to make sure the option that we would not. But you weren't sure it was going to pass. Well, I wasn't sure it was going to pass. You want to know why? Because the Democrats tried to do everything they can not to let it pass. They did dilatory. Democrats were the ones who voted for this in a larger number than Republicans to keep the continuing resolution alive. Did you watch the floor yesterday? Oh, yes. OK. Ninety Republicans voted against it. OK, so let's walk through what actually happened. First of all, the Democrats stood up and did dilatory actions, asked to adjourn. So was that supporting to adjourn? Then they used the magic minute. They went as far as pulling the fire alarm, not to try to get the bill to come up. Look, Democrats stick together, but they did not want the bill. They did not. They were willing to let government shut down for our military not to be paid. No, I wasn't. We were going to make sure we keep it open while we finish the job we're supposed to do. And in doing that, he angered Democrats. In fact, Democratic leaders played those comments in a meeting Tuesday right before they made the decision to vote to oust McCarthy. Now, we are 40 days from a possible government shutdown and Republicans have to select a new leader, one who can get 218 votes to approve any new legislation. It really is uncharted territory. There are times when a Sunday show has the interview of the week. The Voice of the Nation had the interview of the week last Sunday with Kevin McCarthy. You conducted that interview, Margaret. You took stock of the speaker then, your assessment of what's happened since. I mean, it's a stunning turn of events between Sunday morning and where we have been. He was confident. He at least expressed confidence to you. Maybe it was a poker face, but he was there. No, it was a victory lap, having pulled many rabbits out of many hats, as Senator Cornyn had said, and keeping the government funded, keeping the lights on. And what had seemed to be, you know, all of us careening towards a government shutdown and in that 11th hour pulled it off, doing so with more Democrats than Republican votes, something that ended up being fairly central to the conversation we had the next morning. But it was overshadowed that morning in some ways by his nemesis, Matt Gaetz, going on two networks and saying he was going to issue this motion to vacate, which, of course, we know as part of that package to become speaker, McCarthy had allowed for just one individual to initiate that process. But it was the course of that conversation that apparently changed some minds within the Democratic Party about whether they would help to keep him in power or not, because you had to get to that 218. And some Democrats I've heard were a little put out, to put it mildly, when Speaker McCarthy did not suggest to them that they were helpful. Right. He scorned them. And they took that personally and said, wait a minute, we just helped you, and now you're laying down some fire against us? That didn't seem to ease the situation he was walking toward. No. And it was a choice. And I think you can see, and of course, anyway, I was a little surprised at the choice he made and how he presented the argument, because you could have come forward and said a majority of the Republican caucus voted for this. That would have been factually correct. And then said, and Democrats voted with us, and this is bipartisan. And that, at the end of our program, when we talked to Brian Fitzpatrick of the state of Pennsylvania, part of Problem Solvers, he was making the argument that this continuing resolution that was bipartisan proved bipartisanship was still viable, and a vote against McCarthy would have been a vote against that concept. McCarthy himself, though, didn't embrace that concept in our conversation. He went straight at Democrats. And it was a choice. I don't know why. But rhetorically, it is something that did trip him up, it would seem, given that the Democratic caucus used that as a rallying point while making the decision to get to that vote, to vote down McCarthy. The driving forces of the Sunday show and Face the Nation is to try to go to the people who have the answers. As far as I can tell, the big question, what happens next, there's no one to book who has the answers, right? Having made a few calls myself this morning to people on the Hill, they are also having this conversation of how does this actually function when you have an acting speaker? What does that mean in the line of succession? What does that mean in terms of what we can actually do before there's an elected speaker in terms of actually getting the people's work done, which, by the way, the politics around this are fascinating, but there's actual policymaking that needs to happen. We don't have a defense bill that is passed into law. No one knows right now how to bring a bill to the floor. No one knows. Right. Exactly. There's no overwhelmed action to do it, which there's not. But you have, you know, I mean, we were on the brink of not having the FAA reauthorized, you know, just for the very basic functioning of our air traffic. That's where we are. Basic governance, not even talking about changing border policy or Ukraine aid. A lot of the people's work is not getting done. And now there's this question of what can get done in the 40-odd days we have left before that November 17th continuing resolution expires. There is work being done behind the scenes. Sources have been telling me to coordinate with the Senate to try to move something along so that when there's a speaker, we aren't quite on the brink of shutdown. Try to get things ready. Get things ready. Yeah. Exactly. To hand off. But then you get us back to, as we're talking about, what is the alternative to Kevin McCarthy? And is that in any way more acceptable to Democrats and Republicans to vote on whatever it is that next speaker brings forward?