Former Prison Guard Explains Why California Prisons Are Becoming Unsafe | Hector Bravo

I've been involved in numerous riots, and I've never seen blatant disregard for life like that, even the inmates' life. It's like working at a zoo, and they've opened up every single cage to the bears, to the lions, to the panthers, to the giraffes, to the elephants, and you got the correctional officers like, oh my god, what have they done here? Everybody's at risk. That's exactly what California prisons are like right now, 2024. My guest today is Hector Bravo, former lieutenant and PIO for Richard Donovan Correctional Facility in San Diego. Today he's here to discuss what's happening inside California prisons. Our reporters also dig deep into finding out what's happening with the correctional facilities across California. We dive into numbers, and we tell you what's going It's just a matter of time before a correctional officer gets killed in the California Department of Corrections for the way things are going. Hopefully after this interview we can prevent that, hopefully. California even differs from Chicago when it comes to the gang violence. You know, you got gang members in Chicago looking at us and be like, man, you guys are wild over there in LA. You guys are off the hook. You guys are fighting over little square blocks and streets. Even the inmates are afraid now. Definitely. I don't blame them. So you're an extremely dangerous inmate. Now we're going to put you with not as dangerous inmates. We just had a murder as a result of that. I don't think anybody wants that in California. Welcome to California Insider. Hector, it's great to have you on. Welcome. Thank you, man. Honor to be here. We are excited to have you on because we want to hear about what's going on in the prison system in California. And we've been hearing that it's getting, from some accounts, we have six people were murdered in the prisons in California in the first six weeks of this year. And we want to learn what's happening inside the prison systems. And you are an insider. You're getting a lot of information from inside the prison. And you actually were part of the CDCR. You were actually working. You were actually a correctional officer. Can you tell us what's happening now in the prison system? Right. Yeah, I resigned on December 1st, 2022, as a result of all these changes. Changes for the worse, not changes for the better. And you're right when you said that there were six murders in the first six weeks of the year 2024. That is not normal. That is abnormal. Even for California prison standards, the majority of these could have been prevented, could have been prevented, had the administration and managers utilized common sense, followed policy, as opposed to following an agenda, or what is being told from above them. You know, I was a lieutenant. So I was a supervisor. I was in charge of inmates, sergeants and officers. And my job became extremely stressful, unnecessary, unbearing stress. Because one of the changes they did recently, starting in around 2019, was the non-designated program, the integration of inmates that were protective custody, you know, the rapists, the sex offenders, the dropouts, and the general population, your regular gang members. And they mixed them. They made us mix them. So when you mix those individuals, they're going to kill each other. And that's what you're seeing right now at an accelerated rate. For the average people that would look at the prison, like me, I look at the prison system, and I haven't watched a lot of documentaries on prisons, but what does it look like inside the prison system? So California prisons are racially segregated amongst themselves, the inmates. They will segregate themselves by races. The races that you have are Mexicans, blacks, whites, and the others. The others consist of not the other three. Amongst those racial ethnic groups, you have your gangs. You have your northern Hispanics, your Norteños. They branch off of the Nuestra Familia. They oversee. You have your Sureños. They branch off of the Mexican Mafia. They oversee. You have the black gangs. You have the black guerrilla family. You have the Bloods. You have the Crips. You have Bay Area. Those are the Oakland, San Francisco area inmates. You have your Fresno Bulldogs. Your Fresno Bulldogs are located out of Fresno, and they don't get along with anybody, right? So as you can see, it's pretty diverse. You have your whites. You have your skinheads. You have your Aryan Brotherhood. Then you go to the protective custody, the SNY side. You have gangs that have dropped out of those gangs and formed their own different gangs. You have the Two-Fivers, the Northern Riders, the New Flowers, the Greenlighters, the Gay Boy Gangsters. So you can see all of these different gangs that function inside of a prison. They all have their little groups. They sometimes fight with each other, fight against each other. It becomes extremely violent. Did you ever see that? I worked at Richard J. Donovan Correctional Facility, RJD, in San Diego. Again, I was a lieutenant. However, I was part of the crisis response team, which is the SWAT team for inside the prison. I was armed with a 40 millimeter less lethal weapon that shoots the foam baton rounds or the wood rounds, the blocks that bounce. We got word that we were going to bring a bus full of general population inmates. There had to have been like 12 on this side and 12 on this side because there were two different buildings. We were all ready. We were all prepared. Those buildings had their enemy in there, so we walked them into their buildings. Of course, it kicked off like a riot automatically. So I had to use, along with my other partners, use force, batons, pepper spray, O.C. grenades. And when we restrained them, we took them outside to the basketball court. And then that's when they said, we're going to cut off these restraints, we're going to bring you back in here, and we're going to keep doing this all night until you guys get tired. I've been involved in numerous riots, and I've never seen blatant disregard for life like that, even the inmates' life. Can you explain that? What do you mean? Right now, California is trying to emulate the country of Norway, the Norway model. For the people that don't know, they can Google California model. And in essence, they're trying to emulate what Norway is doing in their correctional setting and bringing it over here. If you ask me, I think there's money involved. Somebody's getting paid to implement this program here. However, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that the population in Norway is definitely not the population in California. All the gangs we have here, Sureños, Norteños, Bloods, Crips, Mexican Mafia, Nuestra Familia, Black Guerrilla Family, and the Aryan Brotherhood. There's so many gangs in Los Angeles alone. So essentially, we have done reform inside the prison system. And you have seen that, because you've been in the correctional facilities for 16 years. You had 16 years in the prison system. You had 16 years of experience. And this reform is following a Norway model. Can you explain to us what's the change for average people that don't understand what's happening? So the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation controls the narrative. They have a website. And on their website, they will show you pictures of inmates with dogs, smiling, inmates gardening a little plant, a little rose, and saying it's blossoming and how beautiful it looks. However, if you work in a prison, or you're an inmate inside the prison, you know exactly how it is in there. It is dangerous, but it's nothing like sunshines and rainbows and butterflies. CCR is controlling the narrative and trying to fool the people of California saying, look, what we're doing is working. But if it's working, why would you have six murders in a six-week back-to-back period? I believe in rehabilitation. I believe in rehabilitating these inmates. But they're going about it the wrong entire way. I want you to imagine them going up. I mean, this is to a Mexican mafia member and telling them, hey, you will, you will rehabilitate. And then putting them in an area with a child molester. He's going to kill them. He's going to kill them. And it is our... The Mexican mafia will kill. Absolutely, 100%. You know what I mean? You can't force that type of rehabilitation. But as correctional peace officers, we're obligated to protect all inmates. That's our role. That's our job. Why would he kill the child molester? They have their own written rules. They have their own code. These gang members, these criminal organization prison gangs, the way that they grew up indoctrinated into a local street gang, right? They're taught a belief system. And I'm not making excuses for them. I'm just something that I've gathered and I've witnessed. And if they don't realize the path that they're heading, or they never get, you know, the big picture, it's not going to end well for them. So it's like putting two betta fishes together. We know that two betta fishes are going to attack each other. And that's what you're seeing inside the California prisons. Let me simplify... So inmates are killing each other. Yes. Essentially. Right. Let me simplify it. It's like working at a zoo. And they've opened up every single cage to the bears, to the lions, to the panthers, to the giraffes, to the elephants. And you got the correctional officers like, oh my god, what have they done here? Right. And it's, they're at risk. Everybody's at risk. That's exactly what California prisons are like right now. 2024. And why did they do that? So they follow this model, right? It's a Norway model. So they can say, oh look, they're getting along. But they're not getting along. They will never get along. You know, you can't... Prison operates different. And it might be hard for people that have never been there or worked in a prison to understand that's its own world. It's its own society. They have their own rules. The inmates have their own belief system. Believe it or not, they have their own code and honor where they will not allow a child molester to walk, be in the same room with them, right? If they're still general population. They have orders on behalf of their leaders to kill them immediately. Our team at California Insider, we decided to take a look at this. And we found a lot of data on CDCR's website. We actually looked into the data, which CDCR, the Department of Corrections, has on its website. We should give credit where credit is due because they're actually very transparent. And anybody can go and look up this data. But we went into it and we saw that, keeping in mind that California's prison system, the population is decreasing. And it has been for some years. It's around 94, 95,000 now currently in custody. So as you have this decrease of population, you would expect the number of incidents, incident reports, including violent incidents, like sexual assaults, assaults and battery on officers, on inmates, you'd expect those to go down. But in fact, what we've seen is that as the population has decreased, there's been an alarming and substantial increase in overall incident reports by more than 40% when you calculate the average from 2021 to 2023, or through October of 2023, which is the latest data that we have. And then of those incident reports, some very important categories such as sexual assault, which was all of these are up more than 40%. Battery on inmates, battery on peace officers and non inmates, and sexual assaults just from 2022 to 2023, increased more than 60%. Yeah, so this is, you know, something is wrong. It's an alarming trend. And, and we want to find out why. And this story is the beginning, you know, it's an ongoing story, I think we need to report more on it. But I think people who are familiar with the system who are inside the system, they've been raising the alarm. And they what we're trying to do is represent their stories and try to put together why this might be happening inside California prisons. We have done a comprehensive special report by interviewing a lot of inmates and correctional officers on the record and off the record. This article is available, you can click on the link below in the comments and find this article on our website in californiasire.com. Now let's go back to the interview. And you were a prison guard. So how was it before the reforms and what happened after? Before it was normal in the yard, the recreational yard, everything was ordered, everything was structured, everything was on a time crunch, or on a time schedule. So different kinds of groups will go on the yard at a certain time, right? And they would use the same yard, but they've also taken away consequences for the inmates actions in prison. Back then, if you had a riot, a major riot between two different factions, two different races of inmates, they would go on a lockdown for up to a year, up to two years, meaning they are locked in their cell for a whole entire year. We are bringing them their food to the cell. Due to lawsuits from the inmates, due to lawsuits from the family members, and them stating they no longer want to be locked down, well now they've gotten what they've asked for, and there's no more lockdowns. They could literally murder an inmate on the yard in the morning time, and come afternoon time, everything's going to be walking around like it never happened. Just clean up the blood and just keep it going. Are you concerned with stock market volatility? The market's closing in on their worst year since the financial crisis. Two of the major indices had their worst day since 2020. U.S. financial markets had their worst day since the start of the pandemic. Do you really trust this economy? News are growing that the U.S. economy could be headed for a recession. Inflation soaring to its highest level in nearly 40 years. Prices for gas and groceries are so high. Inflation sending already sky-high prices soaring even higher across the board. What if you could invest in a portfolio with a higher fixed rate of return that's not correlated to the stock market? You can turn your monthly income on or off, compound it, whatever you choose, and there is no loss of principal if you need your money back, and absolutely there are no fees. Just log on to investverify.com. Folks, I personally invest my own money with Verify. Log on to investverify.com or call 888-VERIFY24. Now let's go back to the interview. So you mean murder, is it one person murdering that person or is it a group of them and would those groups feel consequences or? There's no more consequences. There's no more consequences. So they've even done away from the administrative segregation unit, which is the hole. You know, you ever heard of the hole where you do something bad in prison, they kind of throw you in the isolation area. It's not dark or anything like in the old school movies, but you're isolated. You're kind of on your own. You're in the jail inside of the prison. For instance, indecent exposure with masturbation. You used to be able to go to AdSig if an inmate did that. Now they no longer go to AdSig. They just get a little yellow card slapped on their cell door. So if you're a female staff member and you're being exposed to an inmate masturbating every single day to you, nothing's going to happen to him. You know, and earlier you said, or you mentioned, is it one inmate murdering another inmate? They vary. They vary. The most common in California prison are two suspects armed with homemade knives attacking one victim and brutally stabbing him. Right there, right next to the officer, like me and you, just brutally stabbing him until he dies. Just happened in San Diego two weeks ago. I mentioned to you that these could be prevented. They 100% could be prevented. You see, California prisons had a point system at one time. Level one inmates, level two, level three, and level four inmates. We used to have levels. And according to the book, we still do. But since the higher ups and administration are in such a hurry to push these inmates out the door into society, they do what's called an override. So you could be a level four, high security, the worst of the worst inmate, and you can get a good behavior override onto a lower, lesser secured facility, a level three yard. So you're an extremely dangerous inmate. Now we're going to put you with not as dangerous inmates. We just had a murder as a result of that. So from what it sounds like, Hector, there are certain policies that the California CDCR from Sacramento is deciding to implement in the prisons. And then the leaders of the prisons, the wardens, are actually doing whatever they're asked. But you guys are on the ground and they're prisoners, right? You feel unsafe. Can you explain to us what was your perspective in all this? I experienced a unique time in the California Department of Corrections in the year 2020. I'll give you an example. Bravo yard, Bravo facility at Richard J. Donovan Correctional Facility was a level three GP general population yard. We had a captain there that was very incompetent, okay? The warden loved this guy. They used to work together in the past. He kind of made him a friend and then he put him on that yard. Well, that captain somehow some way got a special transfer for a Mexican mafia member. I don't know if you're aware of the Mexican mafia, the prison game, but they don't play around. But there's some serious individuals and it got him specially transported to Donovan to that yard. And that captain gave that Mexican mafia member full reign to run the yard how he saw fit, the inmate. So the captain took away all the power from the officers, all the power from the sergeants and the lieutenants. So this, when I tell you we're in dangerous situations is that you can observe when something bad is going to happen. You just know it's not a good idea to let the inmates run the show. And yeah, in August of 2020, there was an attempted murder on two peace officers on Bravo Yard. That Mexican mafia member took out a weapon and started stabbing the officers. Stabbed them in the mouth because I saw his teeth were pushed in. They took the officer's batons, started beating the officer's face, crushed his entire face, took the officer's pepper spray away from him, pepper sprayed the officers with it. And there was a total, there was a lot of inmates because what the rules for the southern hispanic, the sureño gang members are that if one southern hispanic member gets involved in the incident, they all have to assist per their rules. So you can just imagine how bad that turned fast. At the time I was the public information officer, so basically I was the right hand man for the warden and the crisis response team commander, in essence a SWAT team commander. So I was wearing two hats, two roles that were extremely stressful. And just when I thought that they were going to hold that captain liable for his incompetence, growth negligence, and policy violations, they swept that incident under the rug. They swept it under the rug. And did you talk to the public? You were a PIO, right? So I was a PIO. That night I got a phone call on my state-issued cell phone from the spokesperson of CDCR, the number one spokesperson, and she said do not talk to the media. We're going to talk to them. At first I didn't think anything of it. At first I was kind of relieved because it was, I arrived on scene, I could see the blood, and we had to transport that Mexican mafia member to Calipatria State Prison, another prison. So I didn't think anything of it. I'm like, all right, cool, I don't have to talk to the news. But then when they swept it under the rug, there was an associate warden that was disgusted what transpired, and he blew the whistle. He blew the whistle via a state email. And like I said, I have all these documents. A lot of people have these documents. And in the email he stated that as a result of the incompetence and corruption, two correctional officers were almost murdered. I mean, it was a miracle they didn't die. So as I was a PIO, the public information officer, that following day I get another phone call from the spokesperson. And she says, Lieutenant, I need you to type up a letter response to the news media refuting, refuting the associate warden's allegations of misconduct at the managerial level here. I said, refuting? Why would I refute? And then it dawned on me. Now Sacramento is covering this up. So five minutes later, she responds, don't worry about it. Associate director already typed up a response to the public. And it's on, it's on Google. You can look it up. It says Sacramento is fully aware of the, Sacramento has full support of the administration at Richard J. Donovan Corrective Facility. Any allegations that were made by that associate warden are unsubstantiated and not true. And that was two days, two days after that email went out. Not even an investigation was conducted. And what about the, their model? So that Sacramento has a model. They want to show that this is successful, right? The reforms they're doing in the prison, right? So the reason why I resigned was because every, every avenue to try to blow the whistle failed, right? Equal opportunity. And I would, there was a lot of people trying every avenue, equal opportunity, claims, letters to the office of internal affairs. But you got to understand all of these agencies up into including the office of inspector general, they're all in bed with each other. They all look out for each other. So really the only way for me to get the truth out was for me to resign, walk out and do it this way, air it to the public. The California model started as a rumor when I was in, in 2020. And just within this past year, it's gone full throttle. They've literally sent California employees to Norway on taxpayer's money. And what is this Norway model? So what's the idea? So the Norway model is to convert the prison cells to look like college dorms and to play sports with the inmates, to play foosball. For the guards to play, they've already done it. Basketball games between guards and inmates, soccer games between guards and inmates, foosball games, pickleball. In Norway, they've reformed their correctional system and it's resulted in really amazing, you know, they've had amazing results. They've cut recidivism down to something like 20%. And the whole system is now based on rehabilitation, restorative justice, education and re-entry. So the tagline, which kind of sums it all up is court is where you go to get punished and prison is where you go to become a good neighbor, right? So this is their focus and they've really had amazing results. So California aspirationally wants to do a version of that. And they've sent people to train in Norway and they have pilot programs in the system and they're trying to expand that system wide. They're trying to scale it up. So CDCR would point us to two examples where they've had really good results. And there have been some, for example, in one prison, I think it might've been Salinas Valley State, they implemented this program based on what Norway does to deal with the most dangerous, the most violent inmates in their psychiatric inpatient unit. And they've had really great results. They've had a decrease in attack on staff and, you know, a feeling of pride among staff that they've had these results. So they would point to a couple, they gave us two examples where this really has measurable results. They have eight, you could say pilot programs. They have eight institutions where they're deploying the California model. And one of them, the blueprint is supposed to be San Quentin, which the governor has secured $360 million to do a rehabilitate, to make it into a rehabilitation center instead of a prison, so to speak. And I think our story is interesting because if San Quentin is the blueprint and that's the model that we should be following, that's great. But we have, you know, we have people inside San Quentin who are telling us there's something wrong here too. Like we believe in the California model. We believe in reforms, but please listen to us because the way it's been deployed so far is dangerous. It's creating violence. The problem with that is if you're a brand new correctional officer who does not have the experience of how dangerous these inmates can be, you can be fooled or duped into thinking that and let your guard down and thinking, oh, everything's fine here. Nothing's ever going to happen to me. And that's when, that's when somebody's going to get hurt, if not worse. And has anybody gotten hurt? Oh, 100%. So Salinas Valley State Prison. If you go to the California Department of Corrections YouTube channel, they call it the Norway model. You have an inmate that's mentally unstable and out of control as far as disciplinary behavior. This is a real troublemaker. And you have the officers that are playing with them, smiling with them, and then everything's all great. The following day, that same exact inmate got a pen and stabbed the correctional officer. And they tried to sweep that under the rug and they tried to keep that, minimize that. You see, they only can, they, they, they only want to show you what they want to show you. But, but I have everybody inside the prison, correctional officers, inmates, and the family members of inmates, pleading to me to continue speaking the truth. Even the inmates are afraid now. Definitely. I don't blame them. We're putting, we're mixing inmates that should not be mixed together. And one, maybe if you're a California citizen, you can probably wonder like, well, what is it? What's the problem with that? Let them kill each other. Well, the problem with that is. I don't think anybody wants that in California. Well, the problem with that is if I'm an inmate and I know that you're going to, the correctional officer is going to escort me to this yard where I'm going to get stabbed to death. My better option is to pull out a knife and stab and kill this correctional officer. That's easier to preserve my own life. You see how dangerous it becomes? It's self-preservation, it's survival in there. And these young officers that are brand spanking new and are being brainwashed into believing that we can go ahead and play basketball with them, softball with them, and they're our friends. Number one, that violates the current policy of over-familiarity. Officers should not be over-familiar with inmates. It's extremely dangerous. So they should not become friends, essentially. No, inmates are manipulative, right? That's why we don't speak personal, we don't talk about our personal lives to them because they could use it as a tool to manipulate you and somehow convince you to bring in contraband for them. You know, there's dirty staff members too. Before we continue, we would like to thank Shen Yun for sponsoring this channel. It takes you back in time to magical world of ancient China with a unique blend of brilliant dancing, beautiful costumes, and legends coming to life. Go to Shenyun.com to find out the schedule and theater information. It's a lifetime experience you don't want to miss. It's so inspiring, it makes me want to go dance. Breathtaking, I was very impressed. I'm taking my program and I'm going to mention it on the news because I think it's a great performance and people should see it. What I loved about the show was the authenticity of it. It was taking me on a journey. Exceptional, the technique involved it, the thousands of hours of training. People just float. Everything was exact and then they worked to the exact moment and it was beautiful. You go away feeling with a smile in your heart. Has to come. Life-changing. Make sure you see it. Make sure you see it. Don't wait, get your tickets now. So California, from what I'm understanding, California is trying to implement this Norway model to make it easier for prisoners, to make it better, right? Is that what's happening? And it's coming from Governor Gavin Newsom. That's who it's coming from, okay? And what he says, he says that over the last years, decades, California has been doing this one thing, one way, and it has proven not to work. Therefore, we have to try this new model, this new prison reform based off of the Norway model, okay? He called it, he unveiled it, he unveiled it. He did it at San Quentin State Prison. One of the things he did was change the name to San Quentin State Prison, he changed it to San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, right? So all he did was put lipstick on a pig and say, look, we're no longer San Quentin State Prison, we are San Quentin Rehabilitation Center. It would make total sense if they had rehabilitative programs like education, right? And they do, they do. You can get, if you're an inmate, you can get your bachelor's degree. You could probably even get your master's degree in there, all right? Trades, right? Small engine repair, auto body. However, what they're doing, they're going about it the wrong way, okay? They're just, they're force feeding rehabilitation to the inmates. You got to understand, there's an inmate by the name of Jaime Osuna who chopped off his cellmate's head in Corcoran Prison a couple years ago, decapitated him, put the head next to the cell. You mean to tell me that any rehabilitative program is going to fix that guy? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. In other words, there's inmates that cannot be rehabilitated. There's inmates that absolutely refuse to be rehabilitated. There's inmates that have no interest in being rehabilitated whatsoever. But when you're force feeding everything onto the whole entire inmate population and the staff, you can see how dangerous that is. So essentially they will put these inmates with everybody else? Correct. As a matter of fact, you know death row? Death row in San Quentin? When an inmate gets sentenced to death, condemned? Five years ago, six years ago, they let all those inmates out and now they're walking around prison yards throughout the state of California. Condemned inmates. When they were once held at San Quentin State Prison on death row. So they're mixed. All inmates are mixed right now. They could hurt other ones. The dangerous ones can... They already have. I've been there. We've been there. And again, I have all the documentation. You're just seeing the murders, right? Because they put the murders on the website. They have to, right? I don't know if they have to, but they definitely notify the public when there's a murder in prison. What you're not seeing is the assaults, the batteries, the attempted murders, the riots. We just had a riot in Ironwood State Prison less than a month ago, where 200 Southern Hispanics inmates rushed and assaulted eight correctional officers and sent them to the hospital. That's dangerous. These are the environments that the managers and bosses of Sacramento are putting everybody on the line into. Did you feel threatened for your life when you were working in the prison? 100%. 100%. I felt threatened for my life in numerous ways. These new officers are not being trained to protect themselves or to protect others. When they go to the academy or when they receive training, this is the type of training that they're getting. How to call a transgender by the proper pronoun or what they want to be called. How to push inmates around in wheelchairs for American Disability Act. You get a two-hour class on inmate suicide prevention. You get de-escalation techniques, where they overemphasize talking to an inmate. Even though he's punching you in the face, continue to say, hey, please, buddy, stop. Stop punching me in the face. You see what they did? They kind of have two different angles. They lit the candles on both ends. I felt extremely unsafe as a lieutenant looking at these new young cops that have zero experience or the training to perform accordingly and looking at the level of inmates that were now on the facility. Death row inmates, lifers, level fours, guys that don't care. That's a dangerous situation. I'm a combat veteran and I knew my awareness, my sense of awareness was like, man, this is all bad. This is completely unsafe. Did you see any of those young people get affected or hurt in this process? Excellent question. Another reason why I left and felt the need to do this is to save those young kids. They were getting assaulted. They're continuously getting assaulted on a daily basis. They're getting slapped around by the inmates and punched, stabbed, beaten, spit on, feces thrown on them. And again, there's no consequences. And they just show up to work and do it all over again and do it all over again. It's just a matter of time before a correctional officer gets killed in the California Department of Corrections for the way things are going. Hopefully after this interview, we can prevent that now. Hopefully. You actually became vocal about this. Did you feel threatened to come out and do this? I resigned. I typed up a letter of resignation and that's unheard of. I was a lieutenant. I had it pretty good. And I walked it over to the warden and I said I quit. He didn't try to talk me out of it. He didn't say, well, can we do for you? What's wrong? This and that. He knew what time it was. I was pretty vocal. I was extremely vocal while I was a lieutenant. A poet was transpiring. And again, I have all the documentation. And what would they do to quiet me? They would put me or try to quiet me. They would put me under investigation for a frivolous case of insubordination. I know what insubordination is. I was in the military. I was never insubordinate. They would tell us to do something illegal and immoral and unlawful. I would tell them, no, this is not a good idea. And here's why. I would document everything and then I would do it. And when it would go wrong, I would email them back and say, you're to blame for this. And they didn't like that. You know, with the saying goes, it rolls downhill. And up until this point, they had the momentum, they had the leverage. Now they got no leverage. But this is what I had to do. I had to sacrifice my career. Before we talked to Hector, others people have reached out to us to cover this issue. And they're afraid of speaking because they're inside the system and they don't want to jeopardize their career. Is this common to happen if you come and talk? Retaliation is massive inside of the prison system, inside of the California Department of Corrections from the superiors, right? And the way they'll do it is maybe you tell on the, maybe you say something to the news and they don't like that. They're going to wait until you get involved in an incident. Maybe there's two inmates fighting and you yourself use pepper spray to stop those two inmates from fighting. They're going to look for something to burn you and fire you. But it's going to look as if it was a result of that incident, not as a result of you going to the news and talking. They're good about that. They're good about screwing you over and not making it look like it was for something else. California Insider couldn't independently verify that there is actually systematic retaliation against employees at the CDCR. We would also like to invite the CDCR leaders to come on the show to explain to us what's going on inside the prison systems from their perspective. California Insider is an open platform for all Californians to come and explain what's going on in their field. These issues are complex. The issues we're covering, they're multifaceted. There's always different sides to them. Everybody is welcome to come on this platform. Now let's go back to the interview. The bad part is that the inmates, they've lost their will. They've lost their will and their ability to protect themselves. When the suspect went to court and got tried by a jury of their peers, they got sentenced to a few years in prison or whatever the time was a sentence. It's the obligation of the California Department of Corrections to protect them, right? Not get them killed on purpose and then brush it off, shave your hair, wave your hands and try to blame the officer working the housing unit. Oh, what did you do wrong for this inmate to get killed? No, that's not how that works. And right now they are, so they've implemented this Norway model and it's different here in California. Can you explain how it's different from Norway in terms of the... I believe Norway has different demographics as far as races, ethnicities. Here in California, you got like everybody from everywhere. That's what makes us unique. California even differs from Chicago when it comes to the gang violence. You got gang members in Chicago looking at us and be like, man, you guys are wild over there in LA. You guys are off the hook. You guys are fighting over little square blocks and streets. So with that mentality inside of a prison, that totally differs from Norway. I highly doubt in Norway they're fighting over streets, gang signs, gang colors, graffiti, territory, respect. It's wild over here. I often say California moves different and it does. So California is definitely, definitely not Norway. I'm not even knocking Norway. You know, I believe probably every country should, every country should evaluate and implement whatever system works for their country. The head guy of CDCR, the secretary of CDCR, he's made numerous videos explaining to the staff members saying and the public, hey, we are unveiling the California model. We know there will be hiccups, but we will learn from them. And when he said hiccups, I don't think he, I don't think he knows or cares that when he says hiccups, that means murders, riots, rapes. I forgot to mention that recently last week or a couple of weeks ago, you had an inmate at SCC, Sierra Conservation Center, that managed to make himself, make his way into the control booth where there's a gun and it was alleged that he repeatedly raped the female correctional officer over a span of eight hours. And CDCR swept that under the rug until I spoke out about it and made, and forced them to speak on it publicly. I mean, is that what we're doing? Hiding rapes of female staff members in California? That's unethical. That's definitely not transparent as they claim to be. And people come to you now with all sorts of news, like you're a source people go to to spread the news, right? Do you get contacted by inmates and prison guards? Yes, I do. Can you explain to me how that works? Like people reach out to you, people email you? Yeah, I wanna, I don't like to expose my sources, but they've reached out to me through various ways, through telephone, through email, through certain apps, word of mouth, verbal communications. And I usually do not speak on the subject until I get numerous sources on a certain incident, right? I'll hear something, then I'll hear it from somebody else, and then I'll hear it from somebody else. And to me, I confirm it, right? I confirm it and then I'll speak on it. Even the inmates, but you have to understand, I'm not surprised when they tell me these stories, because I've experienced a lot. It's the same thing at every single prison. And Hector, what do you think it will take to turn things around in the prison system? Everybody that I've spoken to said they think it's going to take for a correctional officer to die. Clearly it's not. It doesn't matter if an inmate dies to them. We've already lost six in 2024. It's going to take for a correctional officer to die, a massive lawsuit, massive public attention for them to even want to consider, but even that might not even change it. These higher-ups in Sacramento, they're at the retirement age. When they feel the heat in the kitchen, they just retire right off into the sunset. Do you think they might be disconnected from the, you just, you mentioned the way it works is that the ranking file is just following orders to get promoted and then the policymakers are in Sacramento. They're not really in the front line and the leaders of the front lines are actually following the policymakers because they want to get, they want their careers to grow. Do you think that they might not know what's going on? Do you think they've made this policy decision and that they're waiting for it to work and they're hoping that things will work out? If there was a disconnect, that's where it would be. They're maybe unsure. Hey, I'm being told from up here, from above me to implement this. However, we're getting a lot of pushback from the ground level telling us why this is dangerous. We're getting a lot of incidents. They're probably wondering why isn't this working? So you're saying they implement this model, the California way, which is following the Norway, which is supposed to help the inmates make their lives better. Is that, that's what it's supposed to do, right? Essentially. It's a facade. But it's really actually putting inmates in danger, inmates lives in danger. It's a facade. It's a dog and pony show. Okay. It's like somebody is getting paid. Some people are benefiting from the enactment of this Norway, California model, but I don't know who people always say follow the money. Somebody, some college, whatever colleges are up in that area are enacting. Somebody is getting paid and benefiting from this. All right. So much so that they are not willing to stop it or slow it down when we are, when, when lives are getting lost and we're being vocal about, Hey, stop this. I got to put an emphasis on that. They do not value human life. I have a five-year-old daughter, right? And she will definitely value human life. I will ensure that she values human life. I learned that from the military. I was taught well by my leaders in the military and the majority of them would go off and later be killed in action. That's why I'm so passionate about this. An inmate or not, a life is a life. I can't sit back and let people get slaughtered. Now, Hector, how should it be in the prison system? But based on what you have experienced, what should it look like? I think there was a sweet spot. When I first came in, in 2006, the prison gang leaders of the Mexican mafia, Nuestra Familia, Aryan Brotherhood and Black Guerrilla Family, they were locked away in the shoe in Pelican Bay, 23 hours locked down for 20 years straight. In 2014, the higher-ups released them, released them as a result of a lawsuit, released them to the general population. That's when we started seeing more murders, right? Inmates have access to cell phones, contraband cell phone, then they're able to orchestrate murders. I am not for locking up inmates for 20, 30 years in a box, right? Clearly, that's a little excessive, that's a little... I'm a realist, but I'm also not for a free-for-all. Right now, it's a free-for-all with zero disregard for human life, zero consequences. I think in the year 2009, 2010, 2011 was good. And I understand that CDCR is acting on lawsuits. They have a million lawsuits against them. Federal oversight in their medical department, allegations of staff misconduct, the Green Wall Gang, where it was said that correctional officers were betting on inmates in human dogfights. But they overreacted, right? They overcompensated. They went too far. Now you have male inmates in female prisons. Now you can have an inmate say that, hey, this lieutenant right here raped me. And even though I did not, I'm going to go under a full investigation. They're going to send that inmate out to a hospital to get a SART exam. I cannot promote for a whole year while I'm under investigation. I cannot transfer for a whole year while I'm under investigation. And this is just continuous, false allegations. It's like the monkeys have taken over the circus. So this whole reform process has actually changed everything, made everything extremely upside down to a point where the inmates are afraid for their own safety. The inmates are absolutely afraid of their own safety. They're not happy. CDCR got turned upside down and all around, man. It's such a mess. There's so many variables. There's so many things wrong. Let me tell you this. If CDCR today, today actually did what they were supposed to do and start fixing their wrongs, it would have to at least possibly take 10 years to correct everything. And the scary thing is, is they're, they're never going to start to fix anything. So not only are we 10, not 10 years away from some normalcy, you can see where this train wreck is. You can see where this train is going. Now, what do they need to do to fix things? They need to clean. They need to, they need to get first things first and get rid of the management that's in place right now. It's a culture thing. It is definitely leadership starts at the top. Okay. So instead of do as I say, not as I do, you need to put people in there. You need to send a message that policy violation at any level will not be tolerated. Okay. You need to do that. You need to go back to putting the inmates where they belong individually, meaning certain groups at certain prisons. You need to go back to holding them accountable. If you break a rule, there will be consequences. I mean, you learned that in kindergarten. They are really hard on the correctional officers as far as firing them, firing them for personal gain. Again, if you're a warden at a prison and you want to promote to the next level to Sacramento, the more officers you fire, the better it looks on your resume. They want to show you're harsh on the officers. Correct. Correct. Meanwhile, you could be a warden again, violating policy to the point that an inmate gets murdered, but yet you have the capability to fire correctional officers. That doesn't make sense to me. That's like a police chief out in the streets, a police chief of a police agency doing whatever they want, running amok, violating the law, and then they get to fire their police officers for different views of perspectives. Graham versus Connor. Graham versus Connor. The use of force is huge, right? They no longer want officers using force on these inmates. They've never flat out wrote it down, but the message they send is, we're going to fire you, right? Even if you use simple pepper spray, we're going to make sure that we're going to find something that you did wrong, and we're going to fire you. And in terms of any suggestions you have for the rest of Californians, do you have any thoughts for Californians? My thoughts and opinions or message to the Californians is, I know a lot of people have moved out of this state. I know a lot of businesses have moved out of the state. I've even considered it. I've considered Montana. I've considered Texas. However, I love the weather here. I love San Diego. I refuse to leave, you know, and that's to each their own. But not only the message to the Californians, but to the rest of the United States, hey man, we're not all, you know, we're not all that way over here. There's some of us that still have that integrity, that discipline, that bearing, and as a matter of fact, we've recently banded together from all sides to fight this current corruption. You know, and that gives us hope. Hope. I don't know how soon change, if it's even possible, but again, I got a five-year-old daughter. Something has to happen. Something has to happen. Go right. Hector Bravo, former CDCR Lieutenant. It was great to have you on California Insider. Thank you. Thank you for having me, man.