Is The Apostle Paul Against The Law? | Paula Fredriksen PhD

What is the relationship between Jews and the law, in Paul, and the relationship between the law and the Gentiles, the ethne? Also, Paul gets these ideas of prophetic, in-times narratives where the nations would come in, but remain the nations. Paula Fredersen joins me today to have this discussion. Her book, Paul the Pagan's Apostle, is a well-worthy read. Also, thank you to those who made this trip possible, and those who support us on the Patreon. I hope you enjoy this discussion with Paula today. Paula, wherever you want to go with this, we've been talking about Paul. We're talking about, what's he talking about? You can't keep the law, and Gentiles, and like, is he anti-law? Is he anti-Judaism? We were diving into this a little in our previous recording, but you're pointing out, in your book, Paul the Pagan's Apostle, get the book, is that, no, he's trying to keep his Gentiles from Judaizing, or becoming proselytes, or something to this effect, where it's like, he probably doesn't even believe that they can become Jews. He is saying that he doesn't want his Gentiles listening to the competition, which is saying that, and these are other Christ-following apostles who are pro-circumcision, and Paul is saying, don't listen to them, because flesh can't help you keep the law. Only spirit can keep the law, and the only ways you guys are going to get the spirit of God is through Christ. So, for example, in Romans 7, that famous lament about wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from this body of death? You know, I want to do the law, but I can't do the law. Very often, commentators will insist that that's an autobiographical statement on Paul's part. Did the guy who wrote Philippians 3, 6, as to the law, I was blameless. Think that in Romans 7, that he couldn't fit the law? I think that's a stretch. That's Munch's point, and Stendhal's point. But also, he's dealing with a rhetorical Gentile who might even be a proselyte in Romans. If you call yourself a Jew, in Romans 2, but you're not really one, you know, are you still breaking the law even though you call yourself a Jew? And then, if this Gentile is struggling to fulfill the law, and Paul is saying, you can't do it through flesh. The only way you can do it is thanks be to God and Jesus Christ. So, he's not saying that the law is bad. He's saying that the only way a Gentile can fulfill the law, which is a good thing, or he wouldn't be saying that that's the point of the exercise. The only way to fulfill the law is through Christ. Do Gentiles have as much law that they have to be responsible for as the Jews? No, because the Jews have a different relationship with God. They have multiple promises, multiple covenants. This is all Romans 9, 4 through 5, and again, Romans 15. So, Jews have more stuff that they have promised to be responsible for than Gentiles. But Paul himself, despite the rhetoric of Galatians, is Judaizing these Gentiles. He's teaching them a kind of Judaism light. How do we know this? He's talking about the Messiah, and he's talking about exclusive allegiance to the God of Israel. That's Jewishness. And then, even in a metaphoric sense, but they think, well, I'm not going to go to that because it depends on whether or not people believe or don't believe in this, but at the end of the day, he's also making them children and being adopted of Abraham, or at least adopted by God, becoming sons of Abraham in some sense. So, there is a Judaizing. That's right, and also getting to call God Abba, which is Aramaic, and language is one of the ethnic markers of people groups. So, there's this yes, but incorporation of Gentiles. They don't become Jews. That's a whole issue of resistance to circumcision, but they become eschatological Gentiles, which is another validation for Paul that he's right. Of course, Paul's always right, if you ask Paul. Good point. So, this brings up the idea of when we talk about eschatological Gentiles. I love that about your book. You spend quite a bit in one of the chapters going through just Hebrew scriptures, Septuagint, Old Testament, whoever's preference wants to understand what I mean, and showing that there are various texts that talk about these nations, and it always the nations, like over and over and over and over in various ways and different forms, and sometimes they get their butts kicked, they're licking the dust off the boots of the Jews, they're completely annihilated, or they come in, you know, holding their wounds, or in other ways, they bring the lost Israelites back with them, or they worship in the temple and sacrifice in the temple with Jews, and a lot of these traditions are all in Isaiah. Right, and then there's even optimistic ones, like wholehearted, like you're talking about these ones, that are just nothing negative about the nations. They're going to come in, providing they leave their idols at the door. Right. And also, remember, what's the point of the idols if their own gods are kneeling, as they are in Philippians 2, to the glory of God the Father? I just find that whole thing fascinating on Paul, and trying to like wrap around, because Paul is looking at Scripture. In fact, one of his boasting claims is that, I got this from Scripture, and of course, God, and what does Scripture tell us? Well, the nations would one day come back, and if the category of the nations start turning into Israelites or into Jews, whether you think he thinks they could or couldn't, I like your idea of saying, he probably thought that they couldn't, unless they were born on the eighth day, circumcised, etc. But either way, that category, and how he's like, we need to keep it to the text, they need to remain what the Hebrew Scripture prophesies would be. Again, this is why I think he drops Abraham and implicitly lifts up Noah in Romans 11, because that's what the table of nations refers to, is the descendants of Noah, which is who's the, if we're all descended from Adam, we're really all descended from Noah. Thank you so much. Thank you to those who contributed in the GoFundMe on making this trip possible for these 12 recordings with Paula Fredrickson. I want to give a special shout out to you, your names are chiseled in history. I also want to thank everybody who has become a patron of MythVision, making stuff like this possible, taking academic work that is hiding behind all of these scholarship, all of these colleges, and making it public, public knowledge for everybody to learn.