Donald Trump Exclusive Interview | UFC Unfiltered

45 Donald Trump alongside of the UFC president Dana White. He's such a huge fight fan. The fighters all love him too. The support that he has in this arena, this grief is gonna blow up. Welcome to UFC Unfiltered. Please tell me that's on video. I've never been happier. I made for a podcast. That's dangerous! Listen to me, we're out of here. Welcome to UFC Unfiltered. Matt and I, in typical fashion, are here in Las Vegas interviewing the 45th president of the United States, Donald Trump. Thank you, sir, for being here. Thank you very much. It's an honor and I've seen plenty of fights. Oh, please. Tough cookie, we're not gonna mess around with it. Oh, thank you so much. And I know that you're a genuine fight fan. I am. Because my very first fight was in 2001 at the UFC, I'm sorry, at the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City. I got knocked out by a spinning back fist. We're not gonna bring that up. Is this thing rolling? No, I'm only kidding. But back then, in 2001, people weren't that excited to be attached to the UFC. And you were, which I'd like to know about how you learned about the UFC. So, somehow I got to know Dana and a whole group of people that were into it and really liking it. And I respected them and I respected Dana a lot. And, you know, that family is a great family that helped Dana out. OK, we don't have to mention names, but that family is fantastic. And they've been with me right from the beginning. Incredible people, smart people, too, and good people. And they couldn't get a venue because of the danger. You know, people thought it was so dangerous and happened to be right about that, but they couldn't get a venue. And I supplied them with a venue. And I think it was for a few of the fights, maybe even five early fights. And in those days, the danger was, you know, perceived as being. Look, there's great danger, but it was perceived as being just like death. And so a lot of the athletic commissions wouldn't do it and owners wouldn't do it. And they couldn't get venues. And I gave them venues early on. And it's an incredible thing because both Dana and that great group of investors, particular our friends. Yes, they they appreciated it. And Dana to this day, I can say that I watched an interview a year ago where they went in and they were saying they were trying to get some bad stuff on Trump. And he said, no, wait a minute. You're a smart guy. He said, wait a minute. I'll never say bad about you. You want me to say bad about Trump? I'm never saying bad about Trump. He helped me a lot when nobody else would. And, you know, those early years for UFC were very tough. They were very tough. I got the inside scoop from a lot of people. They were close to closing it down a few times and they kept it going. And they might have two million dollars. I think it was like two million. Well, they were, you know, they were losing money and it was it was a tough deal and they pulled it through. And now it's a phenomenal juggernaut. It's incredible what's happened. And, you know, I give tremendous respect for the initial group and for also for Dana. I don't think anybody could have done what Dana did. I really don't. You know, usually they say everybody is replaceable no matter what. Everybody is replaceable. I don't think this guy is replaceable. Now, you know, I hope I'm not hurting their investment because I don't know. Where do you find somebody like this? What the job he does. And he truly loves it. You know, when I talk to people about success, you have to love what you do. He truly loves it. And he also will tell the truth about a card. Like if he doesn't like a card, he'll come out and go that fight sucked. It wasn't good. I think people trust you when you come out and say something good about your product or something bad about if you're not happy with it. Well, you heard the name matchmaker for years in boxing and other things. And he's a great matchmaker. He understands the fighters. He understands a good fight. And, you know, you could have a great fighter against a not very good fighter. And it's not very exciting, usually. I mean, sometimes you have an upset, but not that often. He's a great matchmaker. He understands it, but he loves it. And he's really good at what he does. And I get to watch as much as I can. It's highly competitive stuff. You know that. But even back then in 2001, you hosted it. But I knew you were a fan because the very next event, UFC 32 was at the Meadowlands and you showed up as just a fan. Yeah, you were. Yeah, well, I did. And we had a really rough card. That first one was rough. In fact, I'm not even sure it was so rough. It was great. But I don't know if that helped him or not, because anybody that saw that would say that is a dangerous world. Yeah, but it was incredible. And, yeah, I've gone to numerous fights and I'll be going tonight. And tonight you have a very good card. Yes. But I've been to some great UFC fights. Are you good at making picks? No matter how many fights I watch, I'm terrible at making picks. I'm always wrong. Well, this this sport is interesting. Like I watched Usman. I think he's a terrific guy, by the way. Terrific person. And I only say that because when people say nice about me, I say nice about them. But but he is he's a terrific and a fantastic fighter. And I watched that fight. And he was essentially undefeated and pretty much unbeatable. And he goes into the fight and he was winning that fight by so much. Yeah, it was over. And then the one kick and it was indeed over. So you never really know. You never really know. And I was a little surprised. And I give credit to his opponent because in the next fight, he was, you know, pretty fairly dominant. Yeah. And I was a little surprised to see that. But Usman is a great fighter. And then all of a sudden that ended. So it was it's you never know what's going to happen. And if you look at my kicks and the punchers, right, the kicks and the punches. Matt pointed this out, too, in his corner, Leon was losing that fight badly. And his corner said, stop feeling sorry for yourself. Like his corner woke him up and he came back and he knocked out Usman in the fifth round. One of the most amazing comebacks I've never seen. And it was really close to the end. It was almost. And I sort of it was not an exciting fight, but a very dominant fight, because Usman was dominating with the grappling or the wrestling, just dominating. And the last round, he decided to just sort of take it a little bit easy and and box. And that didn't work out too well. No, it's such a game of inches. Yeah, it is. You zig when you should have zagged. Yeah, the fight's over. I think that's one of the the main differences between that and boxing. Obviously, boxing, you got the right and the left. You know, this one, you got the right, the left, also the right, left elbow, the knees, the submissions, the takedowns. Do you prefer one or the other with the combat sports, the boxing or the other? I always like boxing. I've held a lot of fights. I held a lot of Mike Tyson fights and he was a fierce guy. And I think even mentally, in a sense, a lot of people were they looked like they were defeated. Big guys that were bigger than him in many cases. And they were defeated. I held the Tyson Spinks fight and that landed lasted 92 seconds. And people were coming from all over the world to watch it. And it was a big deal. You know, Spinks was undefeated and a really good fighter, but he was sort of a light heavyweight. But he won his light heavyweight fights, but he won all his heavyweight fights. And he had never been knocked down. And you could see he was not thrilled about that fight. He looked scared going into a little bit. He looked a little scared. But people come from Europe. They came from all over the world to watch it. And they're being seated. And the fight was over. I had a little hard time because I had a lot of pretty unhappy people. But that was exciting. And we had so many, so many great fight. Larry Holmes was a great fighter. I thought he never got that much credit. Can I ask you about that? Because Larry Holmes, 48-0 and then Spinks beat him. Was it because he followed Ali? Why do you think he never got the respect and love that he should have gotten? It was really incredible because he followed Ali. At the same time, he fought Ali. And I think that was the worst beating that Ali ever took. He didn't get knocked out. I guess they threw him. His head was twice the size. I think if there was a problem caused by boxing, that might have been it. That was the worst. And Larry Holmes was screaming to stop the fight. He was actually screaming because he admired Ali. But following Ali, that was a tremendous punishment, if you remember that. Because Larry Holmes had the best left jab. But if you take a look at Ali, there was something so magic. And following him was, I think, probably very hard for anybody to do. Larry Holmes is a great champion, but following Ali was very hard to do. And you got to know Ali. I know you knew him pretty well. And you've credited Frazier Ali with kind of getting you interested in boxing. What was it about that fight that kind of got you on that? Well, I knew him all. I mean, I really knew him all. Ali was great and Joe Frazier was great. And it's just sort of like different folks because Joe Frazier was so bad for George Foreman. But Ali was so good for George Foreman. Right. You know, that was one of the greatest fights because everybody thought George Foreman was invincible at the time. And he did the rope and dope stuff and everybody thought it was over. And but he saw something, you know, he saw the stamina thing. Ali saw that. And he was a genius at fighting. He was a genius. But he had a hard time with Frazier. He had a hard time with Kenny Norton. Right. He had a hard time with Kenny Norton. And yet Kenny Norton had a hard time with other people. So you never know really how it goes. Joe Frazier was an incredible fighter. Did you think he got a fair rap, too? I don't think Joe Frazier got a fair rap. People loved Ali and they hated Frazier. Frazier was a really good guy. He was a great guy and he was a great fighter. And their fights were among the best you'll ever see. Oh, yeah. I was talking the other day. Tommy, the hit man, Hearns, right? Yes. Against Marvin Haglin. Yes. So that was less than four rounds. I said they said, what's the greatest fight you've ever seen? I said, well, one of them only lasted three rounds. So you can't have a great fight for three rounds. But I thought that was among the greatest three rounds ever. Right. Throwing caution to the wind. Well, he almost knocked Hagler out. Oh, yeah. In the first round. And then in the third round, you know, you could see it. But that was people watch that. And that's one of the greatest fights. Speaking of Marvin, Marvin, Marvin, Marvin Hagler, his fight versus Sugar Ray Leonard. Yeah. What's your thoughts on that? Well, hey, Sugar Ray's another one. I thought you were going to ask a different one. His fight on Roberto Duran. Oh, so Roberto Duran was incredible. Yeah. And beat him badly up in Canada. I was at that fight. You are. And then if you remember, Sugar Ray came back. Yeah. And he beat him on the no mass, no mass fight. Right. Sugar Ray was great. Look, you have a lot of great champions. It's hard to say. Somebody says, who's the best? Who's the greatest? I don't know if you can really say it. But Sugar Ray was great. Hagler was great. Hagler was so great. Tommy, the hit man, Hearns was was good. Were you happy to see Roberto Duran? He was in the cage with Masvidal after that fight with Nate Diaz. Yeah. Well, Jorge Masvidal was. You know why I love him. I love people that like me. He's a guy from Cuba who got left alone in life at like nine years old and, you know, really went through a lot. And he had the quickest knockout. And I remember Dana saying, oh, the young man that he's fighting is really good. He's really good. But he got knocked out in like three seconds or something. Ben Askren. Ben Askren's a world class wrestler. So everybody thought and he was he did so well overseas. So everybody thought that he was going to have his way with Jorge Masvidal and then a flying knee later. Yeah. So what happened to Ben after that fight? You know what? I believe he fought Damian Maia, who was a jujitsu expert, which was a very fun match because that was basically like jujitsu versus wrestling. He ended up getting strangled. He didn't have the best showing in the UFC, Ben Askren. Yeah. He did well against Lawler though. Lawler was beating him and then he wound up beating him in his first fight. He ended up beating Lawler and then after that he had the fight with Jorge Masvidal. Yeah. And then it was downhill after that. But Jorge is a great guy and he was campaigning for me. You know, he said, yeah, somehow I'm I'm making a speech in this thousands of people. And I look and I say, I think that guy is a fighter. And then I saw it was Jorge and he had done some good stuff. You know, he he had a I don't know if he's retired or not retired, but he he had a hell of a career when you think of it. They said he just he just retired. I think he might have retired, but he was a big fan of mine politically. And I'll tell you, it had a difference. I did phenomenally well in Miami and in all of Florida with the Hispanic population. And I credit a lot of that to Jorge. So we love Jorge. And he's a tough cookie. He's a tough cookie. And they had a fight with Kobe. Oh, I really like to, you know, Kobe. Those two don't like each other. Yeah. Kobe is a MAGA guy. He's he walks into the ring sometimes wearing a Make America Great Again. Yeah. And he's got a great fight coming up. I think his fight coming up is going to be fantastic. Yeah. He's fighting Leon, I think. He's fighting for the title. Yeah. With Leon Edwards. Now, is it hard when two guys you like so much are kind of fighting with each other because everybody asks you to weigh in? And, you know, who would you. I don't love it. Yeah, I don't love it. I hate to give that kind of an answer. Sure. Like, you know, I don't like to do that. But I've had a couple where because I know so many of the fighters, I've held a lot of fights for. Yeah. For my own reasons. I mean, we have it brings people, it brings success, it brings money. It brings a lot of good things. And it's it's an interesting business. I think you've heard I think UFC has hurt boxing a lot. Yeah. But when you have a big boxing match, it still does great. A big one. The medium matches, the smaller matches. I don't think they're very exciting anymore. I don't think they do very well anymore. But I notice when there is a good match, when you have a big match and a good match, they do pretty well. It seems like Dana to the UFC has been so good about getting you the fight you want to see as a fan. What do you think it is that slowed boxing down with? I'll make you wait years to get a match up. And Dana will put it together in six months. Dana, look, there's nobody like this guy. I know him all. I know. Forget about in fighting. I know I'm all in business. Dana White is an incredible person and he's a loyal person. He's a very loyal person, but he understands that he loves it. And you're right. You know, you hear so much about like a boxing match where they're going to meet. They're going to meet six years later. They haven't. And by the time they meet, the one guy they say is over the hill and it no longer means anything. Dana, if when you have those situations, it always happens. I think Khabib was great and it looks like he probably doesn't come back. But I asked Dana last night, when is Khabib? Are you going to get him to come back? So but I thought he was he was a seriously good fighter. I think he promised his mom or something that he wouldn't fight anymore. There was some type of a flow when his father died. Yeah, it's something. But but I thought he was a fantastic fighter. And when you put together Spinks and Tyson, was that kind of like to break Vegas's back in a way? Like, wasn't that the first big win for Atlantic City? Well, I had a lot of Mike Tyson fights. I had more Tyson fights than anybody else. And I got along great with him. In fact, I saw him recently and he could not have been nicer. You know, he was always very nice to me and very good. But I had a lot of fights and he was a draw. He could draw anything and he had a great career. And then I was at the fight in Japan, which was sort of I was sitting next to Don King. And I was a little bit surprised because Mike was expected to win that. And he was fighting a good fighter, but somebody that wasn't always in shape. And he put himself into great shape. And his left jab was like like a Larry Holmes left jab. After two rounds, I looked at Don King. I said, listen, Don, are we watching? Is this right? Because here nobody thought that. And it was a weird scene because it was at seven in the morning because it was in Japan. So it was broadcast. It's a huge time difference. It's broadcast in the evening. Yeah. So I'm watching a fight at seven in the morning and the people were just sort of clapping very politely. It wasn't like a fight crowd, but that was a strange fight. But but Mike was an incredible, just an incredible draw. And it really is really when you know him, he's really a good guy. What do you think it is about Tyson, too? Because people love him in a way. Like there's so many great fighters like Lennox Lewis, Holyfield Holmes. What is it about Mike that still resonates with people? Because they really love Mike Tyson. So he started so strong and he was like invincible and he went that way for a long time. I mean, you know, eventually you're going to lose a fight. It just happens to be like Usman, you know, Usman didn't look like he was going to lose it all. And then he's at a fight where he's so dominant. I mean, frankly, it was a boring fight. And then he decided to change styles a little bit, which I guess probably if he looked back, he said we should have grappled for one more round. Yeah. And he wouldn't have had that problem. But Mike was a very dominant force and a very I mean, he had the whole thing with Robin and the whole thing with this and that. It was always and ultimately it built a very big character. And, you know, he did a Broadway play. Yes. And nobody understands this when I said he was great in it. And I went as a favorite really to him. I went to the Broadway play. It was an opening and it was actually a great show. And I told him a couple of months ago I was with him. I said, you want to do another one or do it in Vegas or something? But Mike Tyson did sort of a one man show. And I remember that. And it was actually really good. And and I just, you know, I have to speak highly about him because he was a great fighter. But I guess you reach a certain level, a certain age, and it doesn't work quite as well. But you can come back. You know, it's interesting when they say the great ones and especially the ones with the big punch like George Foreman. So George Foreman was a terrific guy. But boy, is he different than he was because he was a very sullen guy. And then he turned out to be a big personality. But he fought a young fighter who was very good, considered very good. And George was getting beaten up for six or seven rounds pretty bad. Michael Mora. Michael Mora was the fighter. Yeah. And then he fought Michael Mora. And it was not even I mean, George was taking tremendous punishment. This guy was dancing around. And then George hit him. It was actually a double hit. Yeah, it was a boom, boom. And man, that was over. He didn't even move when he threw the punch. It was like a really it was like the 10th round. And Foreman just was kind of standing. He just just threw it. You see how strong he was to drop him with just kind of a half punch. But he was just getting beaten up. And, you know, it was an age thing. He wasn't moving fast. But they say when you have the punch, you never really lose the punch. Maybe you do at a certain age, but you don't lose it for a long time. But that was an amazing event. Yeah. But the UFC has taken so much of the glamour. I think if Dana went into the world of boxing, which he might do. But if he ever did that, he'd probably bring it back because it's also very good. What surprises me, if you look at the casualties and I mean, literally casualties, boxing has many more. Yeah. I don't know if UFC has ever had a death, but boxing has had numerous. And you would say that it would be the opposite, but it's not the opposite. And I think somebody said it's the shots to the head. Everything's too. But, you know, it's always been a surprising statistic to me because to me, UFC is is more dangerous. It's certainly more dangerous looking. But you're spending a lot of time wrestling and you're spending a lot of time. You know, I think that's if I'm personally, if I'm in there and I'm getting tuned up a little bit, at least I have the I don't. If it's just boxing, you know, what are you going to do? Quit? You can't quit. Yeah, that's that's that's a no mas. That's still, you know. But you could look to change it up by initiating a takedown or switching up some strategies, which you couldn't do in a striking. It's just a surprising stat to me. I've seen it. It's a month, I think, because, you know, it's very it looks more violent because of the blood and the cuts and this and that because of the the skin on skin. But I think it's just your brain getting jawed around with the boxing. It's very surprising, but it's look, it is not. This is not a safe sport that you guys are in, but it's it's safer than boxing, which is shocking. Well, you see, you guys, I don't train. I mean, I know it looks tough. Thank you. Foreman, by the way, the amazing thing about him to you talking about Robbie Lawler's fight in his last fight tonight, he's fighting Nico Price. He's 41. Isn't it crazy that when Ali lost to Holmes, he was 38 and he looked like he was very old. And then Foreman comes in at 38 and starts his career over again. Forty five when he wins the title. It's kind of amazing to watch older guys do what these guys have done. Yeah. And you're seeing it. They're doing better. Tom Brady, if you look at Tom Brady, came in at a certain age and everyone said, well, that's not going to work. You're seeing in your sport a lot where fighters are older and they're doing very well. I, you know, I think a lot of it has to do with incentive. This doesn't seem to be a reason that somebody 36, 37, 38 wouldn't be able to do well. But a lot of them say they just can't. They don't mentally more than physically. They just don't want to work out like they used to when they were 24 years old and they're looking to, you know, take on the world. So I don't know. That seems to be a reason. But it seems that athletes are lasting for a longer period of time, which always made sense to me. It always made sense. I think the fight itself wouldn't. It's not the hardest thing, which sounds odd. I think as myself, as I got older, the training camps, getting through those training camps kind of. Well, that's what they say as you get older. It's not that you can't do it. I think you're physically the same. Maybe in some ways you're stronger and better, but you don't have that same motivation to do it. You know, you've become successful in your case. You've become successful. And now it's 10 years later, 15 years later. You just don't want to do that anymore. You want the success, but you don't want to work quite as hard. But I think a lot of people now are lasting a lot longer. The Jets have a quarterback right now. It'll be very interesting. I think he'll do well. Oh, Aaron Rodgers, right? Aaron Rodgers. Yeah, it's going to be very interesting to see how he does. I think he'll do well. He's a great guy. But sports medicine, I think two plays. I think so. Right. Well, even fixing the bones, you know, things that were you were out for your life. Now they fix them fairly routinely. What's happened in in what you take. Now, some people take a lot of this stuff, but what they do in terms of fixing broken bones and broken joints. It's incredible. The difference. Tommy John surgery is an example. I mean, I've seen people where they pitchers actually got better after Tommy. They were actually better. This is the only surgery I've ever seen where you get better. Yeah. But in some cases, the picture becomes better. Now, let me ask you, because I heard you're really into music is what I heard. I like the rumor. Now, if you were to fight, let's say in a different universe, you were to fight. What song would you come out to? What song would pump you up to go fight in the cage? I think that, well, we are the champions, but that's that's played so much. Yeah. I mean, every time you see a World Series or anything, they play, but it's good. But there are a lot of songs, I mean, inspirational songs, songs that make you want to do it. Didn't Tyson just come out to it like, oh, wouldn't he have a weird, like, like a sound? It wasn't even a song. He came out, but he came out and it was exciting. I don't know if you ever saw it. Vince McMahon is another one. He's fantastic. He's a fantastic guy and one of the best ever. Yeah. And he would have The Undertaker and he had a song for The Undertaker. Now, this wasn't inspiring in terms it was a song, but it was one of the greatest entries into a ring ever where The Undertaker comes into a ring. I did a I did a fight with Vince, the Battle of the Billionaires. It's still supposedly the number one ranked pay-per-view fight that they've ever had, which makes me feel happy. Was that fun? And but just before me was The Undertaker fighting somebody. And it was incredible. The song I said, Vince, how are we going to beat this? This is not good to follow that fight. But but Vince is another one. He's done a great job. It's amazing how many MMA fighters love WWE, too. A lot of guys like Rondo and over there are King Velasquez. Like they have Cormier loves it. Like there's just something about the showmanship of WWE that even UFC guys. Well, Cormier is another fighter. I mean, you look at him, he said he was he was a great fighter and he was shorter. But he had a tremendous heart and he had tremendous strength. Right. But but he was a he was a terrific. He's a terrific guy, but he's a terrific fighter. Double champ to light heavyweight heavyweight. He was tough. You knew you were in a fight. You know, when a fighter that I found was incredible was Evander, the real deal Holyfield. And I watched him because he was really a light heavyweight. And the most he ever weighed was like 218. And he's fighting guys to 60. And the one thing I'd always tell him, no matter what, no matter how big they were, they were in for a hell of a fight. Yeah. But he was he was really a great fighter. Yeah. You had that. I'm going to say his face with Riddick Bowe were classic. The Riddick Bowe fights. I mean, they were unbelievable. So one of the greatest rounds in history was the 12th round. Evander was you would think knocked out. Most guys would have stopped it. And, you know, he really didn't get knocked out. But he was just it looked like he was dead on the ropes. By the end of the round, it looked like Riddick was dead. There was one of the I think it was the 12th round. But you have to take a look at that. That was like maybe it was the 10th round. But you have to look at that. That was an incredible fight. But he was a great fighter. Wasn't AAC where they had to wasn't Foreman's last fight with Shannon Briggs. It wasn't that in Atlantic City. Yes, I believe it was. They booed the decision, I think. I think Foreman won that fight and everybody felt that he kind of got robbed. Yeah, I don't know. I think you're right about that. I think it was a bad decision. Do you think bad judging has hurt boxing? Like you get that in all combat sports. When you look, it's like I saw you at a Golovkin fight. I sat behind you at a Golovkin fight. And then you see him in Alvarez fight and some of the judging. It's like it makes me not want to watch boxing. Well, is that Triple G you're talking about? Yes. So I watched him. It was very interesting. I was at Mar-a-Lago where you have very elegant people and people that aren't into the muscles. OK, and people that you'll never see fighting. I can tell you physically that they fight mentally. But I was there and beautiful people are having dinner. And I looked and there was this guy who was Triple G. I didn't know him. I never heard of him. But I looked at him. I said, but he's a fighter. You know, you could look at you. I say, I bet he's a fighter. But I looked at him and he came up to me and he said, yeah, my name is Golovkin, Triple G. He said, I'm fighting at Madison Square Garden. So I said, and it was sort of he was a young version. And he was great. Yeah. And he was so much better than anybody else. And then I watched him as he became champ. I guess he became champion. Right. But they they had a couple of fights with him. It doesn't matter who I don't want to say who. He got screwed. Yeah. He was he dominated. He dominated a certain fight and they didn't give him the decision. And that takes your heart out. You know, that really I think it took his heart out. But he was a great that guy was a great fighter. And it makes it hard as a fan to watch it, too, because if you like I have no faith in the decision making, it makes you not want to watch, you know, the decision making in UFC. I never thought about it. It's rare that you really disagree with a decision. It's very rare in boxing. You would see I've seen some fights. It was so bad where a guy was pummeled for whatever number of rounds. Now, boxing was better when they had 15 rounds, to be honest with you. You know, those last three rounds. But that's easy for me to say. I don't have to go in there and do that. But it was better. Those three rounds. Sometimes they call them the real. This was a real champion rounds, but they changed it to 12. I actually think that hurt boxing. Why did they do that to make it safer, safer? Yeah. And they said a lot of damage was done in those last three rounds. But but boxing was better. I mean, if they brought back 15 round championship fights, I think it would be helpful to boxing. But there must be a safety reason they did it. I don't know what the reason was, but I think it was safe. Yeah, I think guys were taking damage. And do you remember the fight Meldrick Taylor against Julio Cesar Chavez? Chavez was undefeated. And I think it was Richard Steele stopped it with maybe 10 seconds left in the final round and gave it to Chavez. And maybe that was just a coincidence. But you look at that, you're like, it's kind of hard to get back on board with boxing. It takes your heart out. I mean, it does that. But that's life, right? Life can be that. You know, I look at like UFC or boxing or any of these things, even sports generally, it's sort of a microcosm of life, but it's quicker. It doesn't take years to determine it. You know, it's over in 12 rounds or it's over in five rounds or three rounds. But it's really a microcosm of life. And you see it right in front of you. You have a great champion go and he gets his ass kicked. You have another guy who's no good and he has a great night. You know, it's so interesting. But the nice part, it's over in a period of a half an hour, 45 minutes, it's all over and you sort of see a decision. But it's a little bit like life when you think about it. Jimmy, I was going to say tonight, speaking of great fighters, Alexander Volkanovsky. You know, he's a great fighter. What an amazing fighter. Yaya Rodriguez. Yaya Rodriguez, who's a very dynamic fighter. Any thoughts on that fight? That's going to be exciting. Well, Rodriguez from Mexico said such nice things about me that I would never say anything bad. It's hard to write when they like you. It's hard. Now, at the same time, Alexander is tough, although he lost a fight previous. But a lot of people think he didn't lose that very close. There are a lot of people talking about UFC now because I'm just saying how good UFC is. But there are a lot of people thought that he did not lose that fight. How do you feel about that? The Volkanovsky fight with Makisov, Islam. I thought the way it ended, if they scored it like they did in Pride, as in a whole fight, it ended with him having—he had the bigger moments, I'd say. He had the bigger moments in the fight. So could that have gone either way? It could have. So who did you think won? I thought Islam won. I thought it was a just decision because he dominated more of the rounds. If you go round to round, he had more time clocked in just controlling it. That wasn't a bad decision, but that decision could have been—you know, Alexander did very well. If it went the other way, it would have— But I've seen fights where it's—and these are boxing matches where it's horrible. Honestly, it's horrible. You're like, something has to be— And that hurt the sport. It hurt it a lot, I think, yeah. And it also—you invest more in these—Dana is so good, like you said, at building these undercards and building the lesser-than-the-giant fights. They're fights that people are invested in as well. Well, I knew Don King very well, okay? When you knew Don King, you really knew somebody, and he was great. And I have a lot of respect for Bob Arum. I mean, look, he's still doing it. He's doing great. He's been doing it for 250 years, like since the founding. But he's still doing it great. You know, he's at the top of his game. But I knew Don King, and I always used to say signing a contract with Don didn't mean much because you'd sign, and then an hour before the fight, he'd come to you and say, my fighter's not feeling well, he's not going to make it. You have a full house. You'd say, what are you telling us, Don? He said, well, he needs a little more money. I mean, this is—but I knew him very well, and a true piece of work, not to be imitated. But I liked him. I liked him. But sometimes a deal wasn't so secure when you signed it, whether it was in writing or not. It was more of a suggestion. But Don King was an amazing guy. He couldn't be imitated. Would you—did you ever have to back off on that at the end? Like, was there ever a moment you're like, all right, I'll do it? Or were you able usually to push back? I refuse to say, but the answer is, we got the fight on. The fight happened. But no, Don was—it was tough. He was—look, there was probably nobody ever like him, right? I saw him take over from the original two guys, you remember. I saw him take over Mike and took over Mike Tyson. And I watched it happen. And there was nobody better at that stuff than Don King. What he could do was magic. And he was, you know, just a big personality. They imitated him. They had somebody trying to imitate Don King in the last Rocky fight. And those Rocky fights were great. And they had—the fighters had everybody. But they had a person that was actually an imitation of Don King. But the size wasn't right. The face wasn't right. The hair wasn't right. It was not a good imitation. Because you can't really—you can't really imitate a guy like that. Because he's not menacing Don King. Don King smiles like he's a very charismatic, likeable guy. He'll grab people at Mar-a-Lago. He'll walk into a party. He'll grab two beautiful people, and he'll scream, Only in America, only in—and he gets away with it, right? He does get away with it. He said it to me, and I was like, yeah, you're absolutely right, Don. I wasn't going to argue with him. He was a very good guy. Is it the ability to say this is going to happen, like he did in Zaire with Ali and Foreman. Is it the ability just to say, I'm going to make this happen and not be afraid that it doesn't happen that makes him so great? Well, it is. But, you know, if you look at that fight, that was an incredible fight. Because that was when Foreman was invincible. He was knocking out everybody in the first round, and Ali was going over to Africa to fight. Yeah. And that was one of the most genius fights ever. Because all Ali did was this, and he just kept the arms up, and they wanted to throw in the towel. Ali knew exactly what he was doing. That was one of the greatest fights. That was a genius fight. Remember, they wanted to throw in the towel. No, no. His arms were twice the size. It was so small. And then all of a sudden, it happened where I left to right, to left, to right. And that fight was over. That was a genius fight. Yeah, it was. In terms of strategy. Rope-a-dope, yeah. Rope-a-dope wasn't a thing before that. Right. And it is wild, you said, with George Foreman. He used to be a quiet guy looking frightening. Sullen. A bunch of German. Yeah, German shepherds. And then years later, when he came back, talk about personality. George Foreman grills and this and that. Where'd that come from? No, he's a great guy, and he's got a great brain. I don't know. I don't know what it was, but in the initial, the word is sullen, right? Yeah, I believe so. Nobody really liked him. He was unbelievable because he was knocking everybody out. And, you know, he only started fighting like a year before, which tells you that talent is more important than work. Yeah. Work is very important. But talent, that was an extreme talent. But he only was boxing a very short period of time before the Olympics, and then he ends up winning the Olympics pretty easily, right? Yeah. And then he ends up having a great career. But he didn't box, you know, for very much more than a year or two before he won the Olympics. But he was very talented. And, you know, he was born with a big punch, right? Probably nobody had a bigger punch than George Foreman. And his persona. He was such a terrifying guy. And he admitted that he was scared of Joe Frazier. He said he was shaking before that fight, and that's why he pummeled him so much because he was afraid. But he was meant for Joe Frazier. When Joe Frazier would charge him and he hit him with the uppercut, remember that was the weirdest because it took like three seconds and then Joe went up in the air. It was almost like a spring. He hit him and then Joe went up. It showed great bravery in Joe, but he was not meant for, you know, Joe was not meant to fight him. It's wild. I heard in an interview that George Foreman said if he was younger and this sport was around, mixed martial arts, he would like to try his hand at that, which would have been funny with him with those little gloves. I mean, the truth is, but you never know. Like, you know, you have somebody fighting Bo Nickel tonight. Oh, yes. So he was at the White House and he was with Jim Jordan. Jim Jordan, you know, Jim Jordan, the congressman, was a great wrestler. He was an All-American wrestler. I guess he was the NCAA champion for a number of times, but a great wrestler. But he was an All-American. His son's an All-American wrestler. You didn't know that about the great Jim Jordan. I did not know that. But he brought all of the championship wrestlers in their divisions to the White House. And he said, that guy's going to be a UFC fighter and that guy's going to do great. How long ago was that? Three years ago. Oh, wow. Three, four years ago. And now look at him now. He's doing well. And they're telling us we have to wrap up with you. I can't believe this happened. I'm so happy you came on. I know you're starting to do podcasts. I hope you had a good time. Well, I'm doing a podcast if this is what it is. Is this a podcast? They have a lot of cameras for a podcast. There's a lot of cameras. I will say this. I do it for Dana. And I do it for the Fertitta brothers. And they're so fantastic. And they've been so good. So good. And actually, one of the daughters worked at the White House. And I can only tell you, she was so respected. She did such a great job at the White House. She worked doing various things at the White House in primetime. And everybody respected her. So, you know, it's good genes. When you have good genes, you have good genes. That's very important, right? Hey, man. Well, thanks so much. Thank you so much for coming on. This was really fun. And I'm happy you came. Thank you very much. And say hello to everybody. And have a good night. We will. Thank you so much. Very much.