September 10, 2024: 21st Century Energy Workforce Advisory Board

My name is Mai Goodwin. I am the acting designated federal official for the Department of Energy's 21st Century Energy Workforce Advisory Board. Welcome everyone to today's special meeting. I'm excited to welcome the members here to their ninth meeting one year after the kickoff. I want to congratulate the board and let everyone viewing virtually know that the board just a few minutes ago voted unanimously to submit its first report to the department with no dissenting opinion. This report presents an argument for how DOE can capitalize on its unique assets to execute a cohesive, principled, data-informed and visionary strategy to support the development of the energy workforce. Please note that we will do our best to stick to the times. In order to do that unfortunately I may need to interject to keep us on time. Please do not take offense. Copies of all meeting materials including the presentation deck and the submitted EWAB report will be made publicly available on the 21st Century Energy Advisory Board website. I would like to add that only members of the 21st Century Energy Workforce Advisory Board, EWAB for short, and certain members of DOE may ask questions of presenters. You will notice that according to FACA rules we maintain a public comment period which will take place at 11.35 a.m. For members of the public requesting time to make a public comment, please email me at ewab at hq.doe.gov. If there are any members of the press, we welcome you. If you have questions for our speakers, please contact them directly. For questions for DOE staff, please reach out to me via email outside of the meeting. Okay. One last rule about FACA. There will be a summary of this meeting. It will be prepared and made available within 90 days of the meeting. It will include a description of the matters discussed and any conclusions reached by the committee. I will now take roll call. When I call your name, please repeat your name and organization. Dr. Deanna Ahmed. Here. Dr. Deanna Ahmed. Amanda Cage. Amanda Cage, National Fund for Workforce Solutions. Maureen Conway. Maureen Conway, Aspen Institute. Becky Irvin. Becky Irvin, United Auto Workers. We'll come back to the virtual. Missy Henrickson. Missy Henrickson, the Center for Energy Workforce Development. Chris Levesque. Oh yeah. Dr. Tom Krieger, absent. Dr. Dan Marshall. Dan Marshall, George Washington Institute of Public Policy. Dr. Gerard Melanson. K7. Wonderful. K7, that's first try. Yeah. Dr. Jermaine Wuerl. Dr. Jermaine Wuerl, Augusta Technical College. Alison Zyogas. Alison Zyogas, Orsted Americas. Great. Thank you again to members of the EWAB for your participation in today's meeting and for your ongoing service to the department. Thank you to Secretary Granholm for joining us. And with that, I conclude roll call. I'd like to pass it to Carla Frisch, Acting Executive Director and Principal Deputy Director of DOE's Office of Policy. Well, thank you all for being here, especially those who traveled to DC. We're really grateful for the work of this Energy Workforce Advisory Committee. I think it's a record number of public meetings for any Federal Advisory Committee that you've had. A tremendous amount of work. And we're grateful, too, for the bipartisan infrastructure law that, of course, set up this committee and gave DOE the resources to be able to directly fund workforce activities and to take on the big ideas that you're all challenging us to. With that, I think we have the Secretary here. So if you want to say hello, and then we're going to the board. Great. Hi, everybody. Hello, everybody. Thank you so much for serving and for doing this work and for traveling and for the time. I know you are all VIP souls and have huge day jobs and big responsibilities. So and to those who are on the screen as well, thank you so much. I'm happy to respond at the end. I'd love to hear what your findings are, your recommendations are, because we're excited to be able to deploy and implement. Thanks. Great. Now I'll turn over to Missy Hendrickson, our Chair of the Director of the Center for Energy Workforce Development. And it's been my privilege to chair the Energy Workforce Advisory Board. The members of EWAB are proud to share our recommendations today for a strategy for the development of a 21st century energy workforce, a report that was actually unanimously approved today. And we look forward to highlighting some of the different recommendations within the report. I believe I speak for the entire team in saying that it has been an absolute honor to serve in this historic moment as the Biden and Harris administration has made such significant investments in energy and infrastructure, absolutely huge, and all the while focusing on the importance of good jobs and equitable opportunities for all of the men and women who will pioneer our future. Today, several members of the board and I will share some brief top line reflections of the report. But before I do, I'd like to offer a quick few words of appreciation. And I think there's a lot of that going around today. First, we'd like to thank Maya Goodwin and her team who in the Office of Energy Jobs have helped us coordinate all of that record number of meetings that you alluded to. And they have really made sure that we have heard the voice of so many stakeholders in this process. Those throughout the department, also those within the energy, we're incredibly grateful to Pam Egan and her team from the Berkeley Labor Center for their unwavering commitment to putting all of our words into life throughout 60 pages. And also to Bettany Jones, who I know is joining us on the call today, your Labor Advisor and Director of the Office of Energy Jobs for serving as our thought partner, providing needed vision and counsel. So if we, I've got, we've got our slides up here. The points we're going to highlight for you today are really points of emphasis that are in the paper that stress how important it is for now for DOE to sharpen its workforce development strategy. Because we are in a period of huge transformation, there is a need for a yes and commitment to the evolution before us. We recognize DOE is pivoting from supporting the development of an R&D-focused workforce into strategies that support those who are responsible for building, constructing, manufacturing, maintaining, and operating the energy infrastructure and the vital supply chain. I would also like to stress from the start of our remarks today that as we're talking about developing the energy workforce, we're implying the importance of that work for the entire energy workforce ecosystem, both new and emerging energy technology and those who are part of the legacy system. As we look at the dynamic opportunities before us, we recognize that DOE is uniquely positioned to drive an impactful workforce strategy based on many assets the department already has in place. Eight such assets, if we could advance the slide, eight of those assets are on the slide coming up here just momentarily. And while there are a lot of words up there, everything can really be categorized, I think, into three different buckets. First is the DOE knows what's at play in this dynamic and complex industry. The department is full of innovators, strategists, futurists, environmentalists, and engineers. It's really the thinkers and the tinkerers. And we want to ensure that they are prioritizing the people part of energy evolution right alongside the technology. They no longer can be considered a first and then. Second, in terms of the unique assets that DOE brings to the table is the relationships. DOE is a leader, a convener, and really the conductor. You have the ability and have already demonstrated the willingness to unite the sector and its stakeholders for impact and opportunity. Your leadership is putting the right players together at the national level and within communities for thinking and for action, ensuring progress through partnerships. Sector solutioning, as the paper highlights, will be of significant importance in the strategic workforce development priorities. And then third from this list of eight, as we categorize all of them, DOE has the structure to both create and demand action in the people part of the energy evolution. Through the national labs, through the UCR report, deployment dollars, knowledgeable staff, DOE is uniquely and exclusively positioned to drive progress in the development of a skilled and diverse energy workforce. We're a commitment to good quality jobs becomes the unequivocal norm. The report contains a myriad of recommendations. If we could advance to the next slide and keep going. Time won't allow us to get through everything today, but the report really does offer a look at three different recommendations for consideration, and those are broken down into three areas. First, we encourage you to issue an agency directive adopting eight principles for all DOE workforce. Second, we encourage you to institutionalize and bolster the department's coordination of critical workforce activities internally and across federal agencies. And then third, we encourage DOE support for industrial strategy to revitalize the U.S. energy and manufacturing sectors. And for that, we suggested the integration of six independent workforce strategies toward increasing cohesion, effectiveness, and planning for the future. As I mentioned, time won't allow us to dig into each of these today, but we are going to take a deep dive into this last area. And for that, if we could advance to the 11th slide, I would like to invite our subcommittee chairs to take us on a deeper dive through the strategic recommendations, starting with Dr. Germain. Well, good morning again. Thank you for being here, Madam Secretary. We're excited and, you know, as she mentioned, there's so much that we want to cover, but I'm going to just briefly mention data. And I think that the biggest part is that we know that the department is data rich, and we really want to be able to have the data tell a story. And really what that story is, what are the jobs available, what are the skills in the country, and where geographically are those, and what type of training do we need to put people on to be able to fulfill those gaps? We know whether you're on the West Coast or on the East Coast, there's so many job opportunities and growing, but we also know that those look very different depending upon where you are in the country. We need to ensure that we're better informing, I would say, middle elementary all the way up to our elderly population about those opportunities. So really talking about the rich data that's really available, how do we then begin to have that conversation nationally and really ensure that people know that these are careers opportunities for the future? I'm going to go ahead and kick it over to my colleague, Maureen Conway from the Aspen Institute, and she'll talk about part two. Thanks, Germain, and thank you so much for being here today. I'm delighted to talk with you. I'm going to talk about sector strategy, which I'm really thrilled is one of our key recommendations is to build on that experience. I've been personally actually documenting sector strategy since the early 90s, and I'm thrilled at how they have built and developed their reputation in this country because they have really demonstrated promise for helping people, particularly people who are struggling in the labor market, to connect to opportunity, to really contribute to businesses, as well as to support the competitive businesses. So these are really dynamic strategies that respond to the particular context of their regional economy, the particular dynamics of an industry, and figure out how to equip workers with skills and soft skills, hard skills, the competencies that they need to be successful while also engaging companies and how to support those workers, keep those workers, and really sort of build a shared success model. So these are a key part of what we've included in here in terms of a real opportunity for DOE to build on this infrastructure, to leverage this as the energy industry changes and moves forward, to have a dynamic strategy that responds to those changes and can help us build the workforce that's needed to power the industry forward, and also to provide the kinds of opportunities that are so desperately needed in so many communities across the country for people to earn decent livelihoods and lead good lives. And I turn it over... Hi, Secretary Granholm. My name is Deanna Emes, and I chaired the Barriers Subcommittee for this work. So what I wanted to talk about is a place-based strategy workforce that we can do to be able to help disadvantaged communities kind of overcome the barriers to enter the energy workforce. One of the things that we talked a lot about is the opportunity for DOE's workforce investments to have greater impact by boosting the capacity of the institutions that play strategic workforce roles, not just across critical industries, but through place-based strategies in communities where jobs are being created or displaced. An example that we focused a lot on, and then I had an opportunity to participate in, was the Battery Workforce Initiative. As a battery manufacturer located and headquartered in Michigan, one of the things that we felt was very important... So one of the things that's really important in ushering in the transition for workers into battery manufacturing is not only identifying those skills that they need to be supported in transitioning in, but also then supporting through barriers in entering the workforce. We believe that DOE can do more and invest in supporting communities to develop and scale inclusive workforce development partnerships and programs and policies in localities and regions where these large numbers of jobs, like Michigan, are starting to come about. I was actually there when you announced the BWI in Lansing. I think that's a great example of an ecosystem that's building that's very collaborative across its various partners. I think that there is an opportunity for us to identify more opportunities in other subsectors, like nuclear and hydrogen, that are coming online to then help support overcoming barriers and then developing more place-based workforce strategies. And I will pass it over to Dr. Germaine Well. Thank you. So, Madam Secretary, impactful workforce strategy must include a definition. DOE should zero on such a definition and measure and cross both investment directly in workforce development projects and workforce impacts of deployment projects. For example, identify outcomes and benchmarks for workforce investment across the department. If we make any meaningful impact on helping people enter the energy workforce who have not historically participated in our jobs in process and, which I like to say, previous legacy skilled crafts, plumbers, pipefitters, electricians, and so forth, we need to track those growth and job opportunities. Also, track jobs who benefit from and from the deployment investments. Basically, think about this aggregated data. Right now, we track male, female, age, and stuff, but we need to get to more nuances in the data. This aggregated data can help us set goals for unrepresented populations and institutionalized activities across the department to contribute in meeting those goals. I'd like to turn it back over to Missy, and thank you for your time. I appreciate that. Thank you to all of the subcommittee chairs for sharing brief remarks and to all of the committee members who have worked for the past year to give you the recommendations based on the work we do and the day that we feel would be most helpful to you in the department for consideration. With that, we would welcome the opportunity to hear from you, answer any questions you may have, or hear any of your remarks. Yeah. I'm curious because I haven't read the full granular report yet, and I'm really looking forward to diving into it. A, let me just start by saying thank you for the work that has gone into this and allowing us to be able to launch this incredible transformation in the right way. So it all starts with people who are working in this industry writ large. It's so many industries within the clean energy space, and so therefore such, as you all know, a vast array of skill sets that are going to be necessary. I appreciate the fact that you focused inside the department and outside the department, so thank you for that as well. I'm guessing that you also saw the community benefits plan as a way to leverage, right? Right. So this report can really help us in providing templates for folks who are negotiating those community benefits plans, you know, in addition to the other efforts that we are doing, you know, REDI and RAMP and all of that that I know that you've recognized. So we're excited that we've asked for whether it's investments in local infrastructure to be able to create those workforce opportunities. Clearly on developing curricula for new technologies like hydrogen, etc., the sectoral stuff is just so utterly critical. I mean we, and the place-based stuff is so important, you know, to your point about data and us making sure that we are, you know, looking strategically, but gathering it all in the data sets that are going to be so necessary for us to be able to build up these ecosystems on a place-based basis is important. You know, we've got this, I'm so, I say this as the former governor of Michigan. When I was governor, it was a really rough time. It was really rough. The auto industry was in bankruptcy. All the suppliers were in bankruptcy. So, you know, I mean this notion of, you know, when I was governor, we used to say, you know, where are all the jobs for all the people who are going to be, you know, who are out here on unemployment? And now we say, where are all the people for all the jobs that we're creating? So it's a really great problem to have, right? And we just want to make sure we do it right. We've got this website, this invest.gov, which lists all of the dots across the map of all of these investments that have publicly been stated that are opening up. And as of now, I think it's like 824 announcements across the country. These are the ecosystems we're talking about of people who are going to be hired for these expansions of facilities all across the country. And so the fact that the information that you're giving us allows for us to be able to have that template to do it right is just so great and so important. I'm personally so, you know, moved by the transformation that's happening, particularly in communities that have been left behind, disadvantaged communities. The fact that because of the Inflation Reduction Act and the bipartisan infrastructure law, 81% of the funding is going to communities that are below the median income is just such a huge opportunity for people, you know, all pockets of America to really benefit from this clean energy economy. We just have to make sure that we've got the skill set to be able to ensure that those companies are successful and those ecosystems are successful. And they are ecosystems. As you know, we're doing hydrogen hubs. There's all sorts of companies that are going to all require skills that we don't necessarily teach yet, you know. And so this is such an important foundation that you are giving us as we craft this whole new economy. I hope you have a sense of, I mean, I know you were suggesting this as an exciting to be in this at this time, working on this at this time. We feel it too in the department. We feel like this is history being made, what is happening. I mean, the fact that right now 400,000 jobs have been created in this clean energy space is just amazing. And we've got to do it right, because there's a bunch of announcements that are still, you know, this so far, we've got 825 announcements of expansion so far. And it's only been two years into the passage of the inflation reduction. I would say that sometimes when you're, when you're in the middle of history, it's hard to see it. But I know you all will be able to look back and say, when we were crafting the foundation for workers in this clean energy economy. So I look forward to diving in to seeing it all and how we can, we can operationalize the recommendations that you are making. I'm just 330 million people in America. And they may not see your faces, but they're going to feel your impact. I hope you feel it. All right. Yeah, appreciate it. Thank you. All I know is I'm short. Yeah. All right. A little bit more on both ends. Carla, a little bit in. We need to do one camera at a time. Let's look there. Okay. We can do one over there. One, two, three. Or maybe just pass it around. One, two, three. Perfect. Thank you. Oh, sorry, right there. Okay. Another phone. Great. Thank you to our virtual members for your patience. We were taking a picture. I don't know what you saw. Great. Okay. So with that, this time was intended to be for public comment, but we did not receive any requests from the public to make an oral comment. So I will pass it back to our chair, Missy, for continued discussion. Maya, one thing that I'd like to bring into the discussion point is if you could talk a bit about process in terms of what's next. We've submitted the report. What should we expect in terms of response, review, publication, et cetera? Sure. So the report is now going to be submitted, and per the statute that established EWAB, the department is directed to provide an official response within 30 or within 90 days. We are aiming for shorter than that, and we will provide a formal response that addresses whether the department adopts or does not adopt each of the recommendations. And when it does, there will be a high-level comment around an implementation plan. And that is all per the statute that established EWAB. As you know, in your report, you called out the things that are on the slide here in particular as areas for the department to work on and report back to you on within the next year. And those two will have a, you know, will be decided whether the department adopts those or does not adopt them. These include an analysis of workforce development efforts funded by DOE and that involve the national labs. That will then lead to a strategy for how the department can leverage the national laboratories to effectively support workforce development for the energy workforce. This also includes a plan for breaking down barriers and improving hiring in the energy sector for underrepresented populations, starting with people with criminal legal records and women. It includes an assessment of funding and staffing needs for a centralized office to begin implementing priorities in this report. We've talked about sectoral workforce development initiatives. It includes diving a little bit deeper on what a plan for how the department kickstarts those initiatives looks like. And it also includes a briefing on how the department's research and analysis work that was recommended in the report progressed over the next year. Thank you. That is a lot of next steps that have been collectively identified. And I will add for those who are on the call today, there have already been some additional suggestions that have been made by the group in discussions today. So in addition to the slide that's before you and to some of the comments that Maya just shared, the group would really like to stress from the next stage of our work to focus on job quality standards and the assessment of those standards. We've heard a lot about sector strategies today. And with that, the skills focus that's needed within those sectors, and also looking at kind of what's necessary on a continuum there, because we recognize that as a dynamic approach, it will not be static. We've also talked, and I think it may have been referenced earlier, the importance of place-based initiatives. What's happening in different parts of the country is different. And we've talked about the fact there is a need to prioritize our efforts for displaced workers, those whose jobs may no longer be in existence or may be at risk of losing those jobs in juxtaposition where areas where there's a booming part of the economy, how we can do some just transition work to really make sure that we are looking out for all individuals through the opportunities there. We've talked about an additional need to continue to evaluate programs, including training competency. We've talked about the importance of supporting the DOE staff on their journey. We have made recommendations that we look at the transition from a research and development focus on activities to everything else as well. So how can we partner with them, bringing the expertise of industry, of labor, of educators, community-based organizations, the variety of stakeholders that are so important in this ecosystem. And we've talked about more tactical things, how we can take the best practices that exist in other areas of the federal government, in other sectors, to really infuse the opportunity in this journey before us. So those are some of the things that I think we've identified collectively. The list doesn't seem to get smaller. It seems to get larger. But I'd like to open it up in addition to the things that we've talked about this morning, the things that are on the slide. Is there anything else that has popped into anyone's head as areas where we should focus our attention? Well, it sounds like it is a good list for today. My guess is as we all go back to where we live and work and get back into our circles of dialogue, I would not be surprised if the next time we meet there are a variety of other things that seem to make its way or make their way to this list before us. Thank you. I would like to invite other members of the board that did not comment during the briefing, Secretary Granholm, if there's any other points you'd like to raise or highlight. I have read these sorts of reports since the mid-1990s. And I can say this is a very comprehensive, excellent report that I think will really have a place in history of the transition from fossil fuels to a clean energy. One of its unique aspects was the combination of understanding policy direction, making policy prescriptions, but then identifying specific best practices as they have been implemented around the country, which leads me to a point that Maya raised earlier about targeted reports. It is difficult for the workforce development system to do evaluation reports. When they do them, they tend to be three or four years after the actual program. And there's a certain hesitation to draw certain conclusions about programs when the workforce development field as a whole may be under criticism, let's say. So we need to always try to do something to raise the credibility and legitimacy of these programs. And one thing would be to document them better. Yes, what we generally see on a particular program is maybe a very short introduction of a page or two by the organization doing it. But we don't see kind of more thorough, qualitative research and reports that really allow you to identify the best practices and build on those. And I mean, Maureen, over the years, you've done so great work, you know, laboring in the field, which I totally identify with. But this is another area where the Department of Energy could make a difference. Targeted reports that provide resources to groups like the Berkley Center to really examine and get out the word about these kind of programs. And this also fits into the whole strategy of increasing the training and understanding of DOE staff and really other departments like the Department of Labor as well about the value of these programs. Are there other board members that wanted to highlight any of the recommendations from the report, including for those listening and from the public to hear? Carla, for sure, I know we've been giving around a lot of things, as you said, but I think things well do. I mean, it is a time of great change in the energy sector, including for Department of Energy. I think many of you know and looked at some of the data that we have a long history of workforce programs here, particularly in the nuclear sector. And as you mentioned with the focus on evaluation, you know, there's a lot of lessons learned about the role of the federal government and workforce programs, how we work with unions, how we work with community college programs. And I think over the past couple of years, a lot of our folks that come from more of a science and technical background and training have been in a learning mode to understand, you know, how do we directly connect to the workforce? So we're seeing that theme much more well understood across the department. And then we do have several direct investments in workforce programs. You know, a lot of that's really centered around energy efficiency and some of the hands-on building trades. But I think what you all have pulled together here, we're really grateful for the systems thinking that you've brought into it and thinking comprehensively across the sector. And we do have some of our other DOE offices down here listening in. And what this report will do is go to all of the offices and those who have workforce programs now and those who, you know, shouldn't be starting programs and really be the underpinning for our partnership with them. And we're sitting at the top of the org chart in the Department of Energy, but really working in partnership with all the offices across the department to make sure that we're doing everything we can to have, you know, a trained workforce to meet all of our needs in the energy sector, but make sure that that training and instead of a career path is working for those employees too. And I think that's an important focus that you all have brought to the work. So I just want to say thank you. Thank you. And I also want to acknowledge both virtually and in person to some of the staff working on workforce development across DOE. I know we have virtually from the Energy Workforce Strategy Council as well as the folks from the State and Community Energy Program here with us in person. So thank you for joining. With that, I'd like to pass it to Bettany Jones to provide reflections. Thank you. Thank you, Maya. I am so sorry not to be there in person. We had an emergency family health situation come up, so I had to cancel my travel plans this week. But part of the reason I'm sorry is selfish. When we were putting together this board, we were really thinking who are the absolute top thought leaders across the country in this space, the people who've been working in this in some cases for decades, the people who have really broken through with their thinking and ideas, the people that I wanted to get to know better and wanted to make sure that the Department of Energy would be able to tap the expertise of these top thinkers. And so I particularly regret not being there today at this milestone moment with the inaugural report of this really impactful board. So thank you. Thank you to those of you who were able to come to DC. And I'm so glad you got time with the secretary and Carla. Thank you for taking time today, too. I think what the secretary commented on and what Carla also reflected is just that this inflection point that we're at, this really historic moment, not just for DOE as we're now becoming a deployment organization and shifting from our historic focus on R&D to really implementing this clean energy transition, but this inflection point in the energy sector with all of the changes that the 21st century energy system means. And this group of thought leaders to put together a foundation for how and what DOE will do to support that energy workforce all across the country, how to work with other agencies. It's really, really important. And I think what the secretary said that we can't necessarily see that now, but we'll look back at this, look back in 20, 30, 50 years as this being the moment where we figured out in a big, bold, ambitious way what we were going to do and then set about doing it. Just a couple of reflections, I think, on the report. I appreciate the dichotomies that this group has held and juggled. So one, I think it's always good when you focus first on the assets, the strengths of DOE, and I appreciate the reflecting on that. What are the things that DOE does so well, so uniquely well, and how are we positioned to build on those strengths? And then at the same time, where is there room to grow? So that dichotomy, I think, in laying it out is really useful to us. Similarly, in the workforce space, there's the pull mechanisms and the push mechanisms, and I think you've addressed that really effectively too. The pull mechanisms being, what are those labor standards? What kinds of jobs are we creating? What are the mechanisms to pull talented workers into these jobs and retain that talent in this industry throughout this significant transition? And then at the same time, what are the push supports? What are the training opportunities and supportive services and barrier reduction that we can address to help push workers into this industry? And then a third dichotomy is the need for upskilling and reducing those systemic barriers to employment that have kept certain workers, some workers, out of career track opportunities and opportunities in this industry. And then at the same time, thinking about the talent that the energy sector already has and how do we retain that through this transition? And I could go on, but in general, the thinking around those dichotomies and how we balance those and how we leverage strengths and close gaps, I think, is really incredibly useful to us and something that I'm excited to dig into as we think about next steps and how to make these recommendations actionable. So I was excited to hear about what you all think about the next steps. I think we're really interested in continuing to build out these sectoral strategies and tapping expertise on the board. We piloted this in some ways with the Battery Workforce Initiative, but there's opportunities in so many other sectors, hydrogen, critical minerals and mining, other supply chain activities, all of these nascent industries that we're standing up. And there's a real need to understand and implement sectoral strategies, thinking more about the opportunities for displaced workers or avoiding displacement, thinking about retention. I really look forward to tapping your expertise on that in the coming year and years. And then just continuing to think about what's missing, recognizing the point I think Missy made that the more we think about it, the more items are identified. But how we identify those holes and how DOE can, again, work with our other federal partners to help build them. So thank you again so much for the time and thoughtfulness that you put into this strategy. And thank you for your continued engagement as we go forward, because this is really just the first milestone of something that is going to be long lasting and impactful in the years to come. Thank you. I will open it up for any final comments. I think hearing no final comments and having shared many words of thanks and appreciation. And I think it may be time for us to adjourn and appreciate again everyone's time today. Appreciate all of the work and look forward to continuing on our journey together. One last comment before formal adjournment. So I invite the members of the public to take a look at the report and the deck that summarizes the report, which will be available on the EWAB's website. And we welcome written comments at EWAB at HQ.DOE.gov. Thank you all for a productive conversation. The next public meeting of the EWAB is not yet scheduled. And with that, I adjourn this meeting. Thank you.