Planning For Health Care And Long-Term Care In Retirement | Women Talk Money | Fidelity Investments

Hi, everybody. Thanks for joining today's Women Talk Money discussion. I'm Lorna Kapista. I'm the head of our women's efforts at Fidelity. I am so excited as I have two newbies to the Women Talk Money panel with us today. First, I'm gonna come over to Amy Sutton. Amy, this is your day job, long-term care planning consultant, where you spend every day, all day, talking about the ins and outs of long-term care planning, which we know can be complex. So we're thrilled to have you here today to talk us through that as well. Thank you. And Michelle. So Michelle Mann, she is a vice president and a wealth planner, and you help people every day navigating conversations, planning for retirement, talking about healthcare. And so we're so excited to have you help us out on that part of the chat today. Absolutely, thank you. So happy to have you join us. So we're gonna dive right in, and I am going to start with Michelle. I'm gonna come over to you. Such two big, big topics. And one of the things that everyone asks is, when I think about these two big topics, when should I start to think about when to prepare for this? Absolutely. So there's two answers to that. It's never too early, and it's never too late. It's never too early because you wanna start planning for your healthcare before retirement if you can. But as a planner, I do believe that planning for multiple outcomes is critical. And I also believe it's never too late, and that's because the number one reason that I hear that people delay retirement is because of healthcare costs. And they're wondering, do I have the green light to retire or not? So we sit down and we figure that out together. Thank you for sharing that. I know I spoke to so many, I'm gonna say women and men across the country, but women in particular, and your point on healthcare is such a big one because it's something we don't know about and how to really kind of estimate it and plan for it. So I really wanna get into that. I also wanna highlight, there are at the bottom of the screen, the downloadable resources. So Amy, I am going to come over to you because I wanna get right into this idea of women, we have talked about before, folks have joined us, and if they haven't, that we do have unique factors that we need to plan for. And I'd love to just have you cover those. And then Michelle, just because you just hit on this, how do those factors help us think about how to plan and what the costs are for healthcare? Yeah, that's a great question. So I think some considerations that women really need to think about is first, we live longer than men. So on average, when we talk about longevity, we're living six years longer than men. And this means more years of having healthcare expenses. So the reality is too, that unfortunately women will probably have a higher risk at needing long-term care, and they're gonna have higher healthcare costs throughout their lives. But this ramps up, especially in retirement. Another consideration is caregiving. A lot of us, including myself, we are in this sandwich generation where we have children we're still caring for, and we have aging parents. And we may be caring for them both at the same time. This could also go into retirement where we're caring for a partner. And I do wanna say that as a caregiver, it often creates a very high level of stress, which can impact as a woman, your physical, your emotional health. So just some considerations. Yeah, and something I would add on to that, I always say to clients, make sure that healthcare is a line item in your retirement budget, the B word. Fidelity Research does estimate a 65-year-old woman retiring today may pay 175,000 on healthcare in retirement, which breaks down to an average $6,800 in retirement a year. Women likely will spend more time and more spending on healthcare costs due to longevity and higher cost of care, which is something, Amy, you mentioned. You'll also need to plan for rising costs so that you should be updating that cost every year in your budget. Since 2000, healthcare costs have risen by 110%. So you can expect your medical expenses in retirement to be made up of Medicare premiums, co-pays, coinsurance, deductibles, and prescription drugs, just to name a few. And these estimates do not include long-term care. So we'll talk about that later. Your own healthcare expenses are unique and they will depend on your own situation. So this is a great conversation to have with your advisor. Thank you, Michelle, appreciate you sharing that. First question that came out of the gate was how do I estimate the cost for healthcare? So I think that's just a really good start. So now that we have just a better sense for what potentially that estimate could be in retirement, Michelle, how do I think about, there's a number of different kind of questions around, like, how do I pay for that? Like, how do I save for that? So now that we have the estimate, what accounts and where do I begin to save for that in the best way? Yeah, so there are four different ways that I would say that you could be saving to support and pay for these costs. The first one is Medicare. The second one is your employer benefits. And then perhaps self-funding some of these costs on your own. And then finally, a health savings account, or as some of us like to say, an HSA. I really want to make sure that we spend some time walking through each of these pillars. Medicare is a very, very complex topic and I do want to recognize we're probably not going to be able to get in to the full depth today. So I'm going to highlight, we'll cover it a little bit, but Amy, let me come over to you and just say for viewers for today, because I know we're going to cover it a little bit, when it comes to, like, help me understand, like, what are the key factors when it comes to Medicare we should be thinking about? Yeah, so Medicare definitely is going to be a key piece of your healthcare plan, but you have to remember it doesn't cover all your healthcare needs. Plus you're going to have to pay for those premiums out of pocket. You don't qualify until you're 65 and even then you might need supplemental coverage. So that's something that you need to think about. Now, if you end up needing long-term care, a vast majority of these expenses are just not covered by Medicare. I do want to also add that there isn't one singular plan when you qualify for Medicare and you're also not just automatically enrolled. So there are a lot of different plans to choose from and your decision really on which plan makes the most sense is going to depend on a lot of different factors. Things like where you live, what you're looking to get out of your coverage and what is your budget. That is why we are going to have a session in November going much more deeply. I do see some folks in the chat who really want to go into this topic today. So the good news is in advance of the November discussion, Fidelity actually has a team that is dedicated to addressing these questions on Medicare and walking through it with you. The phone number is 833-886-0033. And it's just what we call the Fidelity Medicare Services Team. And it is free. So you can reach out with any of your questions, talk about your goals and what you're trying to achieve and we are there to help. So Michelle, I'm going to come back over to you because I know we said we want to walk through each of these pillars. So I'd love to get to the second one, which I believe is around employer benefits. Can you go more deeply into talking about employer benefits? Absolutely, Lorna. So I would say the most important thing you can do is to inquire about your retiree employment benefits early on. And this is so you have a clear picture of what is entitled to you. You may be surprised, believe it or not, what is covered or you might want to be able to plan for things that might not be covered. You can also use your personal savings to pay for some of these supplemental healthcare costs. And ways that my clients will go about doing that are they might use funds from their 401k, 403b, IRAs, savings, investments, and social security. But keep in mind, those options might have tax implications that you do need to be aware of, okay? And that is why I like to talk when I talk about your budget or the B word in retirement. I do like talking about this healthcare topic and having a bucket of funds set aside for these types of expenses. So it might help incorporating it into your strategy. Michelle, thank you. I wanted to chime in here because I think it's really important. People are asking how much should I allocate to these different things? And I think we can't get specific on how much should be allocated given we don't have the information on what you may have in let's say retirement savings plan versus what your employer benefits are. We do have a number of folks who did. So Michelle, I just want to come back to you who did also talk about feeling a bit behind with some of their retirement savings. And can you just talk through what they can do if they are kind of behind in their retirement savings? What are my options to kind of what we call catch up? Yeah, absolutely. And I'm going to lead off by saying it's not too late. It's not too late at all. The government allows us to do catch up contributions and that's if you're 50 or older, okay? So the four ways to additionally add more into these accounts are your 401k, your Roth 401k or a similar plan. They allow you to add an additional $7,500 on top of your contributions. How savings accounts allow an additional 1000. Traditional and Roth IRAs are additionally $1,000. And then simple IRAs are around 3,500, not around, they are $3,500. So there are ways that you can start catching up. But again, it's never too late. So Michelle, you said healthcare savings account. Can you cover more, we call it healthcare savings account or HSA, a bit more of HSA because that's our last pillar and I think a really, a very important one for all of us to know about. Yeah, it definitely is. A health savings account is a secret weapon when it comes to saving for healthcare in retirement. It allows you to save and invest specifically for these healthcare costs. But there is a caveat. So in order to qualify, you do need to be enrolled in an HSA, a high deductible health plan. So if you are eligible, these health savings accounts are triple tax advantaged. What do I mean by that? Well, your contributions can reduce your overall taxable income. Your contributions also aren't taxed while they're in the account, even if they're earning you investment returns, interest, and you won't owe taxes when you take the money out if you're using it for qualified medical expenses. So not having to pay taxes is definitely a big plus for your retirement budget. But if you, you might already actually have access through your workplace plan to a health savings account. But if you don't want to, if you don't want to, sorry, if you wanted to open an account, I should say, if you're not enrolled in one at your healthcare, if you don't have one through work, you can actually open one on your own. Fidelity offers these health savings accounts as do a lot of others. So it's something that definitely you wanna look more into to get that savings. That's very, very helpful. And so I think what I heard from you is if you have an employer, you're enrolled in a high deductible plan and you have an employer that offers that healthcare savings account, that's a good spot. Yes. If your employer doesn't offer the healthcare savings account, but they do have a high deductible plan, you can be in the high deductible plan and then Fidelity can be a provider of your healthcare savings account directly. Right. The key is you just have to be enrolled in that high deductible plan, but if your workplace plan doesn't offer it, then you can open it on your own. That's fantastic. And thank you for sharing all of the benefits. Every time someone covers them, I take notes and remind myself of how important it is, particularly with our longevity and potential healthcare costs. So a big question that's coming in from Cathy and many, as well as this idea of, let's say if someone wants to retire early or unexpectedly needs to retire before 65, and can they access Michelle Medicare? Like, what do you do in that situation? So you are amongst friends. There are many, many people decide to retire early or unfortunately maybe they're laid off or maybe there is something unexpected in their life that caused them to retire earlier than planned. And that is why I believe in planning for multiple outcomes, but I'm gonna go over some of the options that you might have access to prior to 65. First and foremost, you might've heard of COBRA. This allows you to pay for your healthcare costs using your previous employer's health plan for a set period of time. They will let you know what this would cost. Typically, it is more than what you were paying to your employer while you were an active employee, and it can be expensive. If you do transition to Medicare while on COBRA, there may be implications to consider. Now, you might have a spouse and perhaps at that point, that spouse is an active employee and you can flip over to their coverage from their employer if they're still employed. And then you can also use your savings to purchase coverage, the public marketplace, Affordable Care Act, which you might know it by, via the healthcare.gov or state-specific marketplace. There are certain subsidies sometimes available depending on income. And this is something in particular that I do talk specifically with clients about. And then a private plan. Your previous employer might provide a retiree health and reimbursement account. So that is also something to look into. So I wanna get into long-term care, but before we do, I just wanted to cover up on two questions just on the healthcare savings account. So first is, if you've already retired, is it still possible to fund a health savings account? And then the second question is, is there an annual limit to how much I can contribute to an HSA? Amy, would you like to take that and Michelle pile on? Yeah, so there is gonna be limits that you can contribute to an HSA. So you're gonna have to follow the IRS limits for that if you are currently retired. Michelle, I'll let you jump in on that. I believe that you are no longer able to, but I'll let you jump in because they may have changed that. Oh, you're right, Amy. You're right, Amy. So when you're not employed by an employer that has a high deductible plan, then you would be eliminated from being able to add that HSA contribution. So yes, it's a very good question, but I will say this. I would encourage you to have a conversation with your advisor on what particular rules and policy changes have occurred more recently, just to be clear on that we're not tax advisors, but we wanna make sure that you are able to save if you can, based on the policy. I think you both brought up a really important point, which is things do change. And even for you are in this and getting those updates and regularly being kind of trained and aware of this, we all need to recognize what potentially is today could be different based on rules and regulations a couple of years from now. So staying kind of abreast or leaning on our financial professionals becomes really important to help us do that. One more question coming in on HSA, which leads us into long care. Can I use my health savings account savings for long-term care costs? Michelle. Yeah, so actually, Amy, you touched on this last time when you provided a wonderful talk with us about whether or not you can use your HSA. So Amy, I'll let you take that one because of recent policy change there too. Yeah, so if this is a qualified medical expense, yeah, you can absolutely be able to use that when you need care. They even at times, depending on the type of insurance policy you purchase, you could use your HSA to actually pay for premiums as well. So there are a couple of different ways you could utilize that. Fantastic, so let's go deeper into long-term care. Amy, I think it might be one of your favorite topics since you spend so much time on it. Listen, for so many of us, it brings up so much uncertainty. It's kind of a whole new space that we don't know much about. Can you outline just what does long-term care include? Yeah, so it's a common question I get is, what exactly is long-term care and what does it include, right? So long-term care in the easiest way to describe it is when you need help with those daily activities. These are things we do every single day. We just probably take for granted, you know, like getting up, getting out of bed and transferring around the house, being able to take a bath, get dressed, eat, using the bathroom. So when you no longer are able to care for yourself and you need help, that could look like maybe having somebody come into the home. So in-home help where it could be a range of, you know, you have somebody coming and just running errands for you, or maybe you need round-the-clock care. I could also utilize for long-term care what we call adult daycare facilities, or it could be residents in a nursing home or in assisted living. We can't predict if you're going to need long-term care or not. But what I can tell you is there are certain factors that will increase that likelihood. One is going to be age. As we get older, the risk just goes up. The other is that women tend to live longer. So when we look at that, gender is going to play a big factor in the fact that we're more likely to need long-term care. And then you also need to think about your lifestyle, your family history. And a lot of people assume their family will be there to take care of them at home. And I do want to just note that when we're talking about being a caregiver, there are emotional, there's physical, and there's financial commitments that that person must do. And sometimes it's just not feasible or it's not the best fit. Thank you for sharing that with us and how we need to be thinking about it. So as we talked about, Amy, you do this day in and day out. Can you just talk a little bit about how you approach conversations to help people and how you approach helping them think about if long-term care is right for them? Yeah, absolutely. Before we go into kind of what are the questions that I ask, I do want to just acknowledge this is a very emotional subject and it can be uncomfortable for some people to want to talk about, but it's a really important conversation that you're going to have with your loved ones. I'm a single mom and it was really important for me to have a talk with my adult daughter. And I wanted us to be able to discuss, well, if something happened to me, what would that look like for our situation? And she was very honest. She was very open with me. She shared with me that she doesn't think that she would be able to be my caregiver and everything that that would entail. So we're on the same page now. Now, when we talk about navigating these conversations, you might have somebody right now that is in need of care. And you're not alone because I want to share a statistic. Someone turning 65 today has a 70% chance that they will need long-term care in their lifetime. When I talk to clients about this, I bring it up as one of the biggest key risks to their retirement plan. And I talk to them about questions they need to think about. Like if something did happen to them, who would be that person taking care of them? And who would be the person overseeing their care? Maybe making financial decisions, health decisions. How would they pay for it? And have they written all of this down and shared it with the people they care about? This is really important. Documenting all of this is part of that long-term care planning process. I do believe too that there, I don't know if we've got that slide up yet, but I wanted to talk about just some key documents you want to put into place too. So there's some important documents that I always talk to clients about having. One is a living will. Next, a healthcare proxy. It's important to have someone in charge of that. HIPAA authorization. And then having someone, a trusted contact on all of your accounts. And again, just making sure we're documenting everything, writing all of these different plans down and sharing them with the people we care about. Thank you. And Amy, I just want to quickly come back to you because in so many different ways, there's a number of folks who are asking, feeling like they're, what's the right age? And if I'm 66, did I miss the window? No. You probably hear that all the time. So thank you. Right. No, you did not miss the window. I would say, just to reiterate what Michelle had said earlier, there's never too young of an age to start planning for any of these things, but it's also never too late to start planning for these things. So absolutely not. There really isn't that sweet spot. You know, when we talk about planning, the younger we are, the healthier we are. So it's better to put those plans into place, but it's never too late. Thank you for sharing that. And building on your, and then Michelle's point earlier, Michelle, you've said this, it's never too late. It's about starting where you are, which is the sign behind me, if everybody sees. So Michelle, I know you talk to so many folks, part of your job is actually also having these types of conversations. Can you just talk a little bit more when it comes to long-term care? What does that conversation look like? Oh, absolutely. So years ago, we gave this seminar in our Fidelity offices, and it was specifically around women and investing. And it was talking about the topics in our lives that forced us to get from the backseat of the car to the front seat of the car because of a life event, a financial event. And it's typically that movement from the backseat to the front seat that can get very uncomfortable. So there is no time like the present to consider some of these topics and how they will affect you and what your wishes are. In my personal story, my grandmother recently has had some health issues. And she, as a woman coming from a really long longevity in our family, she wanted to stay at home by herself as long as possible. But unfortunately, we are in that process right now of looking at different facilities. And we're having to do it in a kind of fast, quick, rushed way, which I don't wish for anyone. But that proves the point that there is no wrong time to have the questions or start considering some of these things that might happen in the future. And I think that you don't want to wait until there is a healthcare event to push you into this conversation because it is emotional, like Amy said. So I would say just from my own experience, try to interweave some of these conversations in sooner rather than later. Thank you for sharing that. And I always go back to the fact that even with us who work here and have these conversations day in and day out, we too have to remind ourselves the importance of trying to do as much as we can as early as we can. But I love that you both also hit on the fact that it's never too late. So it's what the right time is for you and just encouraging these conversations sooner than later. So of course, the next thing that comes up is we're just better understanding how we think about long-term care. The type of conversations we can have is around cost. How do we anticipate the cost of long-term healthcare? Amy, I'm going to come over to you. Yeah. So cost is a big question and I really recommend you do some research on how much long-term care costs in your area because it does cost different in every state and every city. So it's important to find out, well, how much is it in my area? And you also want to price out what in-home care would look like compared to being in a facility. I do hear a lot of common misconceptions around long-term care costs from clients. The first thing that I hear is that long-term care insurance is expensive and it's unnecessary. And so I do want to talk to that because we really, you know, I believe that, you know, the cost of having an insurance policy is going to be a lot less expensive than if you priced out what it would cost for a long-term care event. As you heard me state earlier, when we turn 65, there is a 70% chance we will need care. Now, these costs are going to vary based on where you live, based on the type of care that you need, but also how long you need care for. If we look at the national averages here in the U.S., in 2023, you're looking at them ranging anywhere from a little more than $24,000 a year for something like adult daycare, all the way up to over $116,000 for a private nursing home room. So again, depending on where you live, that cost is going to be very different. On average, people tend to need care for about three years. But for women, we're actually closer to four years of needing care. So when we look at this, you know, we want to make sure we're planning for the right type of care. We're planning for where we're going to live. And again, you know, this is going to be a risk that as women, you know, unfortunately, we're going to have a higher risk of facing. Amy, right back at you with one more. Does Fidelity offer long-term care options? So absolutely. So Fidelity is here to help you. We actually have a dedicated long-term care team that can navigate you through this conversation, that can help you with all the different solutions that are out there. So not just what we have here at Fidelity, but we can absolutely help you and navigate that. But we do have some solutions here as well to help you with. Thank you. I always just have to weave these in as we go because it's so important. And I think once we start to talk about it, what's really great is so many folks are actually ready to take action, which I think is really awesome. So Michelle, I just want to come over to you. Can you walk us through, and we talked about this before, but we're going to come back to it because so many people are asking around, what are the different ways that I can pay for long-term care? Yeah, absolutely. So this is a daunting one for a lot of us before we get into the actual details of all of this. So one, personal savings. You can take distributions from your retirement accounts, investment accounts, savings accounts, and you can even use your social security. Another way is government assistance. There's a misconception here that Medicare will pay for long-term health care costs. So in reality, Medicare is quite limited when it comes to Medicare Part A, and there is no Part B or Medigap plans available that pick up those costs, okay? So to qualify for Part A coverage, that is coverage for 100 days. You have to be hospitalized for three days and need skilled care. And even at that point, it pays for only 80% of the covered health care costs for that 100 days, and you must pay the remaining 20%. And it doesn't, and it largely does not cover. Home care. I do have another example, unfortunately, going on on another side of my family right now. We are within that 100 days right now. Well, I know exactly, if I were to be asked how many days left to so-and-so have before we need to flip over to possibly a long-term care solution, we're getting a crash course of it right now. So it is near and dear to my family. Thank you for sharing another personal example, just showing that we're all kind of dealing with these different situations. I want to continue to walk through, because so many of us may have to prepare reactive or proactive for it, what are other options you can use to pay for it? So Amy, can you cover what else is left? Yeah, so the other options that you have would be looking at long-term care insurance options. So there's a couple different types of options out there. You have what's called traditional long-term care insurance. This is going to be a standalone long-term care insurance policy where you pay a premium either monthly or annually for life. Typically those premiums, they do get more expensive as you age. If you end up needing long-term care, it's going to pay you out of benefits. And then the other type of insurance policy out there is a hybrid long-term care insurance policy. Now this works a little bit different. So this is simply just a combination of having both life insurance and long-term care insurance combined. So in the event you did need long-term care, then with this type of policy, it's going to pay out a benefit to take care of that. But let's say you didn't need long-term care. Then it turns into a life insurance benefit for your beneficiaries that would pay out for them. So you can use that type of policy in multiple ways. Now, the way that you would pay for a hybrid policy is also just a little bit different. You could decide to pay for this and spread it out amongst your life, or you could decide to pay it in a one-time payment so you can control the cost a little more with that type of policy. Thank you. So I love this question because it comes up so much and it's from so many different people, but Nicole hit on this idea of thinking about long-term care, considerations, timing of purchase, single, no children, no caregiver. And I love that because so many of us are solo and want to be thinking about this. So what if you don't know anyone to help care? What do you do? I'm going to, Amy, come over to you. Thank you. Perfect. I was going to say, I can speak to this. So I've actually been divorced for about 15 years now and I'm planning a loan. So I am in that scenario. And just because you don't have a partner doesn't mean that you don't have a friend, a neighbor, a child, or somebody, an extended family member who might be willing to step in and help out. So it's important to have these conversations with everyone you care about. But as I stated earlier, I'm a single mom. I have a daughter. She's an adult. And we had that conversation and she shared with me, she is not going to be my caregiver. So I know I won't be able to count on her. So I needed to get a plan into place. So some things when I put this plan together that I needed to consider, and I needed to make sure too that I had it all in writing. I told her where it was and what the plan looked like. So she knew. But some considerations for me when I put this together was that I wanted to stay at home as long as possible. So I wanted to be in my own space, which means I'm probably going to end up hiring people to come in and help me, maybe with some of those activities that I'm not so comfortable having my friends or a family member help out. And then if the upkeep of the house is just too much for me, then I will go into assisted living. Because I think it's important too that at some point, I probably won't want to be worrying about cleaning the home, doing yard work, meals. So that's where assisted living can really come in and help out. But I really recommend establishing all of those documents we talked about, putting things in writing, whether you are single or not. And something else for people aging solo that you may want to consider is hiring a patient advocate. So this is someone that can really help you to navigate the medical system as you get older. So these would be things that they can handle for you, like being able to offer you medical advice on making medical decisions. But they can actually go and attend appointments with you, which is really important. Because if you're in need, they can sit and take notes, they can ask questions, they can locate specialists in your area, and they can also keep track of your prescriptions. So just some things to think about. Thank you very much. I want to get to another question. Well, first of all, Stephanie also and many other people asked about that. So it keeps on coming in in different forms. I'm really trying to figure out if you are single and don't have kids and on your own. So I think really, really, really helpful. One question that came in, and I just want to address it because I think it's important, but a lot of people are asking about it. How do I think about getting long-term care versus just paying for whatever it is with my savings? So I'm sure Michelle and Amy, you hear people ask you this question a lot. Can you just help kind of talk through how you would work with someone in response? And I'll let either of you take it. So I'll say when I am planning with my clients, I really spend a good bit of time talking about what their preferences are. What is most important to you? Is it knowing you have the comfort and knowing that there is a policy that will step in when possibly this time comes? Or do you value having more control, maybe over your own asset that you do want to set it aside in a quote unquote bucket? So I do believe that there is not a wrong or a right answer. I do think that it has to start with understanding your preferences, talking through some of your fears and what you want to avoid and what you imagine the ideal situation coming through on the other side. So Amy, any thoughts there? Yeah, I think when you're thinking about putting a plan together and should you use your own personal savings? Should you self-fund with something like this? It's really important to get some advice and help. So that's why I always think talking to someone, we have a team here at Fidelity that can navigate these conversations and show you a comparison. Well, what if I did look at an insurance policy versus going in alone and being able to fund this from my own accounts? What does that look like? What's the impact that it would have on your lifestyle, on your goals? So that's where we want to take a deeper look and be able to really look at how this impacts your overall picture before we just make a decision on this is the way I'm gonna go. That way you've got all the information you need to build the right plan. Thank you for sharing that. I do think hearing from you the importance of understanding preferences in unique people's situations, be it on your own or as a couple or a larger family is what you all do day in and day out to figure out what's best versus there being just one answer. We have about five minutes left. I think Amy, I'm gonna come over to you, but what do I look for in a great long-term insurance plan concerned about overpaying for something that may not be worth it in the long run? Yeah, that is actually a really great question because when we look at statistics in long-term care, most people want to start out in home and stay there as long as possible. So when we're putting together a plan, we wanna think about your preferences, but we also wanna make sure that you're not over-insured, but you're not under-insured. So we wanna take a look at, well, how much does care cost in your area? Do you have any family history? Do you have any family history of Alzheimer's, dementia, things like that, that maybe we need to plan a little bit longer for? So those are some of the considerations, but again, that's where having someone to help you and navigate that to make sure you are putting the right amount into a policy. The goal to me would be that you put the least amount into that so that you've got the coverage that's working for you. Amy, I am sure right now, everybody's saying, I want to talk to Amy and make sure that I'm making the best decisions for me and those important to me. Tell us what you're looking for help for, and then we have a team of folks that are gonna be reaching out to kind of get you the help that you need, and it is free. So I think that that is really, really important. Okay, we're coming close to time, so I want to wrap up pretty quickly with one last question. Amy, Michelle, from your experience working with clients over the years, what do you wish that people asked you or thought about sooner when it comes to healthcare and long-term care planning? Michelle, let's start with you. Yeah, so I would say just sitting down and having a very honest, candid conversation with your loved ones just about what some of your wishes are and having them sooner rather than later, rather than being rushed, because these are some very serious topics that have emotional consequences to them. So I would just encourage everyone to have that little date with a special person to have these conversations with sooner. And Amy, quickly over to you. Yeah, I would probably, similar to that, would say that these are such important conversations to have. So lean into it. I know it can be uncomfortable, and I know a lot of our loved ones don't want to talk about this, but don't give up. You know, continue those conversations and do them at a much younger age while everyone is healthy. So that way you know everyone's wishes and you're not having to make reactionary decisions. So I would say it's never too young again to start planning for this and never too late. I love that. Start where you are, never too late. Thank you both for joining the discussion today. Invaluable. I know I learned a ton, and I know that everybody who joined us did as well. Quick wrap up. You can also just call us directly for free. I just want to call up that slide so everybody can have access to the phone number. 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