(Ep. 110) Save for Your Kids Edu Using a 529 College Savings Plan | 529 College Savings Explained

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Student Loan Planner Podcast. I'm your host, Travis Warnsby. And I have hopefully a cool episode to start 2021 with, which is talking about the future and specifically in this case, I'm going to talk about not our futures necessarily, but how do we help our kids have a better future than we've had financially and in other ways, too? You know, if you think about what you've been through financially, you've been through a lot. Even if you had it off better than a lot of people, you still probably had to take out student loans. Otherwise, maybe you'd be listening to true crime instead of this podcast. And so that means that you came from a background that at least it probably was a wasn't a one percenter type background. And that's not something that you would necessarily aspire to. But I think that we all aspire to how do we have our kids have a better life financially and otherwise than we did? How do we make it easier on them? And how do we set them up for success? So I'll share a little bit about in this podcast about what I'm doing personally for for my daughter. I had a daughter this year. I've been talking about it a lot in the email list. And it's really cool to think about this and to think about what kind of future I can give her. So hopefully you'll enjoy that. But first, I've got a question from one of our listeners. So this is a question coming in from Tyler. Hey, Travis, I know you do a pretty good job of keeping up with President-elect Biden's student loan policy proposals. I've seen some things in the news about his potential retirement savings changes and real estate tax advantage changes. And just curious what you've learned so far and what you think is realistic to happen if he were to get what he wanted. And just curious how that might affect student loan borrowers like us. It's a great question. Here's what I would think about this. All of the proposals that Vice President, now President-elect, soon to be President Biden, has put forward on the retirement savings front are things that I would heavily discount. And the reason is, is changing retirement plans is something that's very difficult to do. And you really need buy-in from Congress in a big way to get anything done. You can't really move around retirement plans that easily with executive action. It just isn't something that I've ever seen happen, at least, where you just have an executive order issued and it really affects retirement plan deductions or contribution limits or rules, whatever. So I think that even if you have the Democrats win both seats in the Senate runoff in Georgia, which is coming up in a couple of days, I guess, even if they were to win both of those seats, it's still you would have to have a moderate, essentially, vote for a massive overhaul of the retirement system. So I don't necessarily think it's super helpful to talk about what he would do, simply because it's not going to really change all that much in a way that would negatively impact people listening to this. I do think that there might be maybe some bipartisan action taken on maybe helping out low income folks, maybe get some easier access to retirement plans. Maybe there might be discussion around credits for retirement savings or something like that. But I would not expect massive changes to the retirement system just basically because of the November elections. If there had been a hardcore blue wave where we were sitting with 57 Democratic senators, I think we might want to talk about some of the changes that might happen. But for retirement savings, I mean, it's just going to be the usual kind of thing. Max out your retirement accounts, get the brokerage account started and and really don't really worry too much about what might happen with retirement accounts, because I think that the main thing that will probably affect you this year is potential student loan changes, which will obviously cover you on that. So good question. If you have a question, remember, you can ask them at student loan planner dot com slash voicemail visit there and leave a question for the pod. So let's talk about the main part of today's episode. How do we prevent the next generation from having student debt? You might say, well, that's not something that I even really want to do. I want my kids to have to work and hard for what they have. And if they take out debt, that's fine. That's just what people have to do these days. And that's perfectly reasonable view. But it didn't have to be that way. And I have a lot of personal experience of parents that kind of looked out for me in a big way that I think that is just cool to share because not everybody knows this stuff. This is not stuff that people teach you automatically unless you were privileged enough to grow up with parents that did save for your college education or had resources to save for your college education. It's not just enough to have the desire. You have to have the ability to, which is a whole other thing. So let's talk about the ways that you can help out a child financially. So there's kind of the basic sort of middle class, upper middle class ways. And then there's the sort of really ultra rich way that probably won't apply to a ton of people here. But I'm going to focus on the middle and upper middle class kind of way. So the middle and upper middle class sort of way to save for a kid financially for the future and cover kids at college expenses in the future is called the 529 account that helps you with things like tuition for private schools if you send your kids to private school. And also the main reason for it is for college expenses, tuition, room and board, et cetera. And the 529 account is a little bit specially designed for that purpose. If you try to take money out of it for other reasons, you're going to get hit with penalties. But it also grows tax deferred. And when you pull it out for qualified expenses, you can withdraw from it tax free. So there's these 529 accounts that are basically for saving for your kids college. And then there's a catch all account called a UGMA or UTMA account. So UGMA slash UTMA is basically the Uniform Transfer to Minors Act. This is just something that's been around for a long time. It governs setting up accounts for minors and how having that money transition to the child when they reach the age of majority in your state. So that's by far the two most common ways to transfer money to kids for the future and look out for them for the future. There's a more complicated way, which is setting up some sort of a trust. And you hire your attorney. You set up a specific trust with ownership and trustees that designate certain investments. And there's really complex asset transfer techniques. And and that's something that you probably only need to think about if maybe one, you have a special needs child, which is kind of outside the purview of what I'm going to discuss. But if you do that, you might think about having some sort of some sort of special trust like that. And then the other reason would be if you have more than $10 million in assets and if you have more than $10 million in assets, then you probably should be listening to a podcast. You should probably be hiring an attorney, OK? So I'm not going to talk a ton about the trust method of setting up a trust for the benefit of a minor, because it's really complicated and it does involve paying a lot of money. Whereas setting up a 529 account or a UTM account is actually relatively really easy. So let's talk about the high level about a 529 and a UTM and when you would use each one. OK, so the UTM is essentially something that you can use for any purpose. That's pretty helpful. You might have a kid that, heaven forbid, doesn't go to college. Oh, my gosh. And then if you put up a bunch of money in a 529 account, then that might have been wasted money because you might have to pay a penalty tax to withdraw the money and use it for other services. Anyways, that's, I think, kind of an interesting thing. So if UTM age, you contribute with after tax dollars, there's no tax benefits. And when you pull it out, you pay normal taxes to pull it out. Basically, capital gains taxes in any of your earnings and the money you can kind of control how it's invested. You manage the account for the minor. And then when the minor reaches the age of majority, which in a lot of states is 18 in some states, I think it's even 21. That minor can literally call up the financial institution where you have the account and say, I'm of age now. Can you transition the account to me? And you don't have any way to stop that. Now, a 529 account, you can open it and you can be the owner and you can set it up to be basically have a beneficiary for that account. So, for example, I opened a 529 account and my daughter is the beneficiary and a 529 account is specifically for college. Think about it like this. A UTM age is you want to have your kid have a little bit of money stashed away. They can use for anything they want. Traveling to Europe, buying a car, helping them afford to take an extracurricular trip somewhere when they're in their teens or early 20s. That's kind of the point of UTM age. You just want to give them a leg up in life. Whereas a 529 account is you specifically want to make sure that they don't have to have student loans or you want to help them out so they don't have student loans. Now, when it comes to helping out the future generation, you should know that it never, ever takes precedence over your own financial needs. You should always, always, always prioritize your own finances and your own retirement savings first. The basic reason is if you think about the analogy they give you on planes, I know that not a lot of you have taken a plane ride at any time recently. Ha ha. Right. But what do they say? They say you have to put your own oxygen mask on before helping others. And the reason for that is if you don't have the oxygen mask on, you'll pass out and you won't be able to help out your dependent. Get their mask on. Same thing with finances. If you do a great job of saving for college, but you don't have your own retirement stashed away and set away, then you're going to be working forever. Then your dependents going to have to be the one to care for you. And you'll become a financial liability instead of a financial asset. Furthermore, retirement accounts and home equity are often not treated as assets for the purposes of helping pay for your kid's college. So that's, you know, even a bigger incentive to make sure you do a good job of saving for yourself first. For most people listening to this podcast, I really think that you probably would benefit from setting up one or both of these accounts with a minimum contribution and then contributing maybe at most a hundred dollars a month or some nominal amount until you get the rest of your finances set up to be rock solid. I think that's really powerful to have these accounts set up, because when you have them set up, you remember that this is a goal to aspire to and a goal to work towards. I tell people, even people that are really struggling, get your short term debt paid down. That's credit card debt, really high interest debt, right? Get that minimal amount of savings in the bank, probably $10,000 or six months expenses, whichever is greater. And then once you have that set up, basically you want to set up a minimal contribution to retirement and $100 a month to the brokerage account. And then you work towards putting more money into retirement and putting more money into the brokerage account to become financially independent where you don't have to be stressed about where the next paycheck is coming from, because you're going to work towards not having to work one day for money. Now, when it comes to helping the next generation, again, you would want to prioritize maxing your own retirement, taking care of your own finances, except that you would probably go ahead and set these accounts up with a minimal contribution just to have them open. That's a great thing, because sometimes people will give you money for a kid and you're like, well, I don't really need to use this for anything in particular. Well, you can say, hey, would you like to contribute? You can tell your parents this. Would you like to contribute to juniors college? If you have an account like that set up, then you can just put that money directly into an account like that. Now, I'll talk a little bit more about 529 accounts, because again, what is a 529? It's a 529 because it's named after the section of the code, the tax code that it's in. Basically, here's how it works. You put money in and you do not get a tax deduction for income taxes at the federal level. Most states will give you a state income tax deduction. So, for example, in Missouri, where I live, I can open a 529 and every year as a married couple, I get a maximum deduction of $16,000 as a couple that I can contribute. And that $16,000 is free from Missouri income taxes. So Missouri income tax is like five or 6%. So that means that if I make that max contribution, I can save hundreds of dollars in state income taxes for making that contribution. So there is a reward for doing this. And I make that contribution and it grows tax free. And then I can pull the money out tax free. So think about it. Think about it like this. I contribute $10,000. It's sitting in my bank that I just have. It's extra after I put all the money away that I wanted to for other things. So that $10,000, I'm putting it in when my daughter is a baby. And if you have a 7% return on investing, then that would double your money basically every 10 years or so. There's this really cool rule called the rule of 72, where you just take 72 divided by the investment return. And that tells you about how long it takes for your money to double. So that means in 72 divided by 7%, it's about 10 years. 10 years for that $10,000 to double to $20,000. And then another 10 years for that money to double to $40,000. If I put that $10,000 in now, there's a good chance that I could be looking at having four times as much money when my daughter's going to college. And that growth of that account, the $10,000 to $40,000, that growth would be tax-free in a 529. And then when I pull that money out, as long as I use it for qualified expenses for my daughter's education when she's going to college, I can pull that money out and have that be a tax-free withdrawal, which is really kind of a great idea. Basically, if you think about 529s, 529s are basically the Roth IRA of college savings, if you understand how those work. That's a good analogy. Now, if I pull the money out and use it for something else, then I would have to pay ordinary income tax on those earnings, plus a 10% penalty tax on the earnings. The principal is never hit with the penalty. So your original contributions are not taxed with any penalties, but the earnings would be very tax inefficient if you withdrew it and put it to some other use. So that's a downside. And that's one reason why you might not want to overfund one of these. You should probably not have the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars in a 529. It's better to probably have a modest, more modest five or six figure sum. And the good news, though, is say you have two kids and one of them gets a full scholarship and the other one does not. You can also change the beneficiaries. You can change the beneficiaries whenever you want. And that doesn't affect the account or the tax deductibility. So, for example, if you kind of want to hedge your bets, you could save maybe a little bit in the 529. If you're not fully sure that you're going to have a kid go to college, well, you could save some in that and then you could change the beneficiary later. And worst case scenario, if you have no kids with college expenses for whatever reason, then you could always change the beneficiary to grandkids or to cousins or nephews or nieces. So it's it really is an extremely flexible account, even though it's a lot of restrictions as to when you can pull the money out. Now, if 529s count against you for financial aid. So, again, if you're sort of a modest income person, you should really not worry about a 529. You should just focus on saving for retirement because you have limited funds. But if you have a decent sized income, it's really a pretty helpful thing to do. Now, when you open a 529 account, you can do it through an advisor, financial advisor. Those are going to come with higher fees. I personally would just open one directly. And what you can do is just Google search where you live, what state you live in. And can I get a 529 deduction and fill in the blank New York, for example. And there might be a requirement that you can only get the deduction for your state income tax deduction if you use that particular state's 529 plan. Some states like Missouri will allow you to open a 529 with any investment company and receive the tax deduction. So in our case, I opened a 529 with Vanguard. So Vanguard is a company that I can't recommend highly enough. If you like managing investments, if you don't like managing investments, perhaps you should consider using a financial advisor for a 529. But if you don't mind a little bit of the management of it, you could simply figure out if you need to open that 529 account through your own state's plan to get that income tax deduction or if your state allows you to open it wherever you want. So here's actually some states that will allow you to open a 529 account anywhere and still receive a deduction. Arizona, Arkansas, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana and Pennsylvania. Obviously, if you have an account in a place like Texas or Florida or Washington state that doesn't have a state income tax, then that doesn't really matter. You can open it up anywhere you want. So you just have to consider what you specifically need to do based off of your particular state. There's also some states, too, by the way, I should mention that don't give you any deduction for 529 plans on your state income taxes. Some of those are like California, Kentucky, North Carolina, New Jersey. Maine, I think, are a few of those. Essentially, if you are planning to get a state income tax deduction and you have to use the state plan that you where you live, then I would use that state plan. Otherwise, I would probably just open it up at Vanguard because it's just really pretty easy to do. Now, when you open up a 529 plan, you might say, well, what do I invest it in? And how much should I put in there? Well, again, I think you should just maybe put $100 a month in there. If you have a baby, it's pretty straightforward, right? If you have a baby, figure out where you need to open the 529 based on where you live with a Google search and then just put the minimum amount just to get it started. And then maybe do $100 a month automatically contributed from your bank account. That's like the baseline. Eventually, you would want to say, well, how much will I need if I want to fully cover my kid's undergraduate? Here's some good rules of thumb. If you want to save for a public institution, you might want to do about 250 a month. This is going to be wildly dependent on the person and how old your kid is, etc. But just to give you kind of an idea, 250 a month probably will cover most of the expenses. If your kid goes to a public school, you might say 250 a month. Well, that's $3,000 a year. And I would just say, yeah, first of all, college is super expensive, getting more expensive. And then the next thing I'd say is 250 a month. If you start early enough is really not terrible. I mean, you think about 250 a month. I mean, shoot. I know probably a lot of you don't have a bundled cable thing or something, but that's like a bundled cable bill net. Send your kids to college. That's pretty cool. If you wanted to send your kid to a private school, how much would you need to save a private university, for example, just a run of the mill? Private universities probably going to be in the neighborhood of like $500 a month for contributions per kid to a 529. And then if you wanted to have enough for your kid to go to like Ivy League level or have some money for grad school as well, then you might consider doing a thousand a month. So why did I do 16,000 for my daughter's 529? So I'll just give you the honest answer, which is I looked up my state rules and the maximum income tax deduction I could get. And I overfunded my contribution based off of just the fact that I could get an income tax deduction for that full amount. So I'd already funded a lot of a brokerage accounts, retirement accounts. And I was just looking for a place to get another additional income tax deduction for something that I'll use in the future. And I fully expect that we're not going to get a ton of financial aid for my daughter's college. I guess it depends if I'm an early retiree or income might be rather low. But I want to plan for covering that for her. That's why I made that specific contribution. It wasn't anything, you know, in particular that led me to contribute that specific amount or more or less. It was just because that's what my state in particular said that they would give me a deduction for. The other reason is, is my wife is like, well, she's got to go to Princeton plus Harvard Medical School. And I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, that's going to be like, I don't even know that's going to be like a house in San Francisco or something like one point five billion dollars by the time she goes to school. I'm just guessing. But I don't know. I personally would like her to go to a school in the SEC so we could go to football games together and cheer on the team. Hopefully my wife doesn't listen to the podcast, this podcast episode in particular, otherwise I'll get in trouble. So anyways, you might have particular dreams for your kid. And that kind of gives you an idea of what the kind of cost would be if you did want to have it covered for you. Just think about it like student loans, right? If somebody already has student loans, there's actually tons of ways you can optimize the situation. That's what we do is save people tons of money that already have a ton of student debt. But if you could plan ahead and you could take advantage of all the system and the knowledge of the system way before you even have that issue, you can be way better off. And that's kind of the idea is in the future. If you have kids in the future or if you have them now, this is kind of the idea is how do we set up your kid for just enormous success and financially not having to worry as much as you've felt anxiety about your financial situation? Right. So remember, 250 a month. If you're trying to cover your kid's state public university expenses, 500 a month for covering private university and then more like a thousand a month would cover more of like an Ivy League maybe with additional some money for grad school type expenses. Now, you might say, well, I would like to have something a little bit more flexible than a 529. And instead of going out and creating an expensive trust fund to manage, what you can do very easily is simply call up a company like Vanguard or Fidelity or Schwab and just say, I want to set up a UTMA account for my child. And remember, there's no tax benefits for this. This is the same thing as setting up a brokerage account for yourself, except for it's the benefit for a minor instead of for you. Now, remember, the 529 is essentially a Roth IRA for college is basically what it is. The brokerage account version for a kid is a UTMA account. That's what you're creating. And this is like if you're just really well off, you're doing really well. You have tons of extra money. You've refinanced your student loans to like I had somebody recently that got close to a three percent fix for 20 years recently, which I thought was absurdly low. By the way, if you haven't looked at refinancing your private student loans recently, you really need to do that because I'm seeing absurdly low rates that I've just never seen before. So you could go to student loan planner dot com slash refi for that. And I guess while mentioning this aside, you should also look at what our cash bonuses are now, because particularly for people at six figures of student loans, our cash bonuses now kick butt. They're unbelievably high, higher than they've ever been before. And the cash back bonuses, I calculated how much recently people have gotten from us. I found out that it was over one point five million, possibly as high as two million dollars that people have received in cash bonuses from our site and have wanted even more of that in 2021. So that's an aside. But anyways, say you refinance your student loans to super low interest rate or you're going for student loan forgiveness. You don't want to necessarily throw a ton of extra money at your student loans. Well, then you might think about, OK, maybe I'll do this UTMA account because I'm already funding my kid's college education. I'm funding my retirement. I'm putting my brokerage account, my Roth IRA, making extra prepayments on my mortgage. I am flush. And if that's you, more power to you. Congratulations. But if that's you, that's when I would start thinking about a UTMA account. Again, it's not something that you should contribute to probably regularly because it is just money you're giving to your kids and you can give your kids money whenever you want from your brokerage account just by selling stocks or giving them money in the bank or whatever that you transfer over. So this is really something that if you're going to have millions of dollars one day that you might want to have. And I think that the again, the UTMA accounts are really awesome for the kid. I can speak from personal experience on both of these. And one thing I didn't mention going back to the 529s, you can also do a 529 version that is called a prepaid tuition plan. These are kind of like pensions a little bit. It's like a pension for college. For example, I had a prepaid tuition plan when I was born. My parents saw that it cost about $3,000 to buy four years of tuition at any state university system in Florida when I was born. So $3,000 bought four years worth of college education back when they bought it right in the early 90s when they decided to do this, which is kind of crazy because like the cost for four years of education by the time I went, I think was more like three to six thousand a year. And so that's an insane return. And now they're charging way more for that prepaid tuition plan. And it's a lot more restricted in the sense that you can really only use it where you live in the state where you live. And a lot of people move around or they might want to go to a different kind of a school like a private school. So the 529s are a better choice, I think, if you want to save for your kids college, because I think the inefficiencies that existed were these prepaid plans were just offering a super good deal to kids. I think that that's not really as much as it used to be. I just wanted to mention that if you are like, I don't know, if you live in a certain state like Michigan or something like that and you're like, definitely, they're definitely going to Michigan State or University of Michigan, then you might consider doing a prepaid plan if your state has one of those. Otherwise, I would use the more flexible 529 plan that you can use anywhere. So anyways, the thing that I was going to say is from a personal experience, I can tell you that it's really quite beneficial to have this kind of amazing benefit be given to you in particular. So I had 8000 given to me in a 529 plan and 10,000 that grew into 20,000 in a UTMA plan. So I like to just kind of give you actual numbers so that I definitely came from like I had really a lot of advantages, but it wasn't like these advantages were absolutely enormous, too. I mean, it wasn't like I had six figures in one of these accounts, but certainly I had a lot more than I deserved. So think about how this kind of affected me. So this this money that in the 529 plan, it was done by my grandparents like kind of before the big crash in 2008. So I actually had negative earnings in that plan, and I didn't even need to use the 529 plan for qualified expenses because of having scholarships for different things. And so anyways, that money, I was able to pull it out and not pay penalty taxes, even though I used it for nonqualified expenses because I had negative earnings in it. But the UTMA account, basically, like whenever I did something that I guess my grandparents wanted to kind of reward me for something like that, like I think maybe when I got Eagle Scout or something, they would take a thousand dollars or something and put it in my UTMA account and basically a Vanguard mutual fund. And so they did that. And this relatively small amount of money they put in actually grew, like I said, to like 20,000 enough to buy a car with by the time I went to school, which really shows you the power of regular investing, right? Because they didn't. I think it maybe even was less than 10,000 they put in. It might even only been a few thousand. But when you start one of these accounts at a young age for a kid, it really does grow quite a lot. So on top of those two things that I had, I got a scholarship for living in Florida that basically everybody gets called Bright Futures. There's also scholarships like this in Georgia, I think. I think it's called the Hope Scholarship in Georgia, but it covers part of your school. And so I got a scholarship on top of that for the school that I applied to directly. So with the UTMA account and the prepaid tuition plan, which was a special kind of 529 and just all the different things that my parents had saved and with some help from my grandparents, I was able to actually go to undergrad and basically have positive money coming from me going to school in the sense that I was literally getting paid a few thousand dollars a year on top of room, board, tuition, everything for going to school. And I was extremely blessed, right? I mean, that's amazing. And my dad was a teacher and my mom didn't work for most of my childhood. And she's a nurse. So it wasn't like we were like rolling in dough or something. This is just something that they were really very frugal people and thought ahead, I guess. And I was really blessed from that. So I think that this is how you can really help out your kids for the future. And just to give you an example of how this doesn't, you know, you don't have to do this right. My wife was an immigrant, is an immigrant to the United States. She immigrated from Canada. She was born in Canada. Her parents immigrated from Asia, though. And so they had nothing when they started in Canada where my wife was born. And then they had to sort of give up a lot of their savings credits towards retirement in Canada when they immigrated to the US. They used a lot of their life savings that they did have to help her pay for med school, but it still wasn't enough. And so she came out owing low six figures. And the thing is, is it turns out that if she had managed her student loans the right way, she would have gotten PSLF and they could have had hundreds of thousands extra in retirement accounts to help fund their future retirement plans. So, again, this is just showing you knowledge is power. But at the same time, don't use this unless you're rock solid for all these other accounts and you're investing tons of money. And this is just you want to throw out additional bounty for your kids so that they don't have to go through what you went through, because we don't know what the future of the student loan system is going to be. Right now, even for undergrad, like a lot of kids, parents cover their undergrad and then grad schools up to them. That's a really common arrangement. A lot of people didn't even need to do that because you could have maxed out your Stafford loans and had about 30,000 of Stafford loans from undergrad that you could have rolled into your student loan forgiveness plans post grad school. So this is why this information is something that will help some of you. But I would say maybe it won't help most of you because most of you just need to worry about taking care of your own finances and being good parents and investing in your kids from a time perspective and energy perspective, helping them do extracurricular activities, because you can only think about so much. But I just want you to know that these things exist so that if you do decide to, hey, you know what? We're really growing in our finances are really crushing it. You know, we want to feel like we've accomplished something for our kids, for their futures. You can do these things that are going to help your future. Your kids have an amazing financial future that you will always be grateful for providing, and they will always be grateful to you for providing. So I thought that this would be a fun way to start off 2021. I do want to let you know, you know, why did I bring up specifically how to prevent the next generation from having student loans? It's because we are going to reopen our flagship investing course next week. So it's only going to be open for about three days for enrollment. And we're going to give a special discount to if you pay attention to the email list for signing up. So this is the student loan planner investing course. You can find it at student loan planner course dot com. Specifically, if you want that hundred dollar off discount code, you got to be on our email list. If you're not already on our email list, you can just go visit the website and sign up for it. This is our top investment course. We've gotten insanely good feedback on it. We have a money back guarantee and fewer than I think two percent of people that have ever bought it have asked for a refund. And so you've got a 98 percent satisfaction rate on that, which is very rare on anything you're selling for several hundred dollars. So this is our best product besides our consult service and besides our refinancing bonuses. And it's it's really those big three is what we offer. So I think this is something that's going to really help out a ton of you, especially for those of you that are like, OK, Tesla has gone up ten times and Bitcoin is like soared so much and everybody's trading on their Robin Hood accounts. And what the heck do I do to invest for the long run when everything feels so frothy in the markets and everything feels like a collapse tomorrow? How do I plan and invest for a future where we're all not having to socially distance anymore? We're going back to concerts and we're taking plane rides again and trying to get the Southwest Companion Pass and paying for things with airline credit card rewards miles again and all these things that we always love to do. We're going to get back to normal at some point. I don't know if that's going to be years from now or if it's going to be by the spring or some time in between, but we will absolutely get back to something that resembled this pre pandemic world just because we always do. America always kind of gets back to some sort of normal, even if it takes a while. And so you want to have these investment tools and these this knowledge so that you can be ready for whatever comes next and so that you can be a wealthy, financially stable, secure person. It doesn't have to have student loans cripple you with anxiety and worry because always, always, always you can beat your student loans and save money and not have that affect your life. But that's not good enough, because if you've made a student loan plan, that's only going to cover you not having to worry about your debt. It's not going to cover you having plenty to not need to worry about you eventually retiring and not having to work again one day. So that's what the course is called. Six figure debt, six figure debt to six figure net worth is what the course is called, because it shows you exactly what you need to go from owing six figures to having six figures of assets. And that's the most important thing you can do from an investment standpoint, because once you reach that six figure asset level, then it's going to be a lot easier path to go from six figures of assets to seven figures of assets, because what road to follow, because you've already successfully done it. And so many people never, ever, ever get to six figures of assets. In fact, actually, that median net worth, I think, for families with retirement plans is something like $50,000 or something like that. I think like maybe 50,000 is the median 401k balance for people retiring. So if you can get to six figures of assets in your 30s or 40s, then your financial future is limitless because you're already in the top five to 10% of households just from knowing how to do that. And so this is exactly what our investment course does. And I'm really excited to have this completely updated, completely new for 2021 version of this course be released next week. So watch out for that. And thank you so much for listening. 2020 was a heck of a year. It was extremely hard, extremely hard to me personally. I don't want to get emotional on the podcast, but 2020 was really miserable for me personally. I lost my grandmother and to sorry to a COVID outbreak. And it was really hard. And it's just been a really terrible year. I'm grateful for the promise that my faith offers, but also I'm grateful for the promise of just knowing that the future is probably not going to look like the past. And so I'm so excited for your 2021. I really hope that we are all able to travel again soon, that you get the vaccine soon, that you will, if you don't already have a plan for your student loans, you don't have to worry about them anymore, that you'll get one of those. Stay tuned to the podcast. We're going to have a lot of updates for you just going forward with the student loan policy changes that I expect that we will see. And thank goodness that we can throw 2020 in the trash and be grateful for the blessings that did happen in that year. But just look forward to the future. So thank you for listening to the show. I really appreciate you. A lot of you shared really great words of encouragement to me personally, just with what I've been going through the past several weeks with my family. We've got this. It's 2021, y'all. Let's just celebrate the fact that it's here and look forward to the future.