My Life With Shen Yun: Lillian Parker Reflects on Her 7 Years Touring With the Company

Classical Chinese dance has that inner bearing, or the expression of your inner world. So at the same time that you're completing technically difficult moves, you have to bring out a certain emotion, or you have to be calm and composed, or you have to relax. You have to have so many aspects that you can control at the same time, on command. Lillian Parker is a rising star at Shen Yun Performing Arts, one of the few non-Chinese performers in the group. She has toured with the company multiple times over the last seven years as part of a special practicum training program for promising young dancers at Pei Qian Academy of the Arts and Pei Qian College. This year, as the artists prepare to head off for their 2025 world tour, we get an inside look at the extraordinary life of a dancer who started touring with Shen Yun as a teenager and how that experience has shaped her. Being able to join practicum and perform on stages, that's just incredible. And it's like an experience that many people, we say they can only dream about. People don't get to do that, and it's just like part of the natural process here. At the Epoch Times, we've been proud sponsors of Shen Yun for years. It's the world's premier classical Chinese dance company, which showcases a China before the ravages of communism. This is American Thought Leaders, and I'm Jan Jekielek. William Parker, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders. Thank you for having me. So tell me a little bit about how you got into classical Chinese dance. I started dancing when I was pretty young, maybe four or five. And it was my mom who first signed me up for the class. And I can't say that back then I really had any sort of understanding of what I was doing. I was pretty clueless, but I enjoyed it, and I just went along with it. And when I was six, I started taking gymnastics. And after about half a year, I told my mom that I wanted to go back to classical Chinese dance. There was just something about it that I liked doing it. So I went back to classical Chinese dance, and I just kept doing it until today. And what about Fei Tian Academy? How is it that you first encountered the dance school? I was taking classical Chinese dance in Toronto, and then some former Shen Yun dancers were from Toronto. So when they finished their dance careers, they actually came back to Toronto to teach dance. So I was in one of these former dancers' dance class. They kind of mentioned to my mom that like, oh, you know, she has pretty good physique, and maybe she could try out for Fei Tian. So eventually, I ended up sending an application, and then, yeah, I got accepted. So how quickly did you then join Shen Yun? I went to Fei Tian, and I was in a training class for a little more than a year, maybe 15 months. And then after that, I joined a Shen Yun company. That seems very fast. Yeah, I guess in Shen Yun, the style is more like the veteran dancers lead the newer students. So you have that potential, and then they'll let you join a company for practicum tour. And then that's actually when you're learning. It just speeds up a lot because you have some fundamentals. And then on tour, like learning the dances for the show, that's like a whole other level. It's a continuation of your training. It's sort of like, oh, the next level. Instead of like, oh, you've reached this level. You're okay now. You can join the show. It's more of like, oh, you can keep learning now in the company. What was it like for you when they told you that you made the cut for the company? I was pretty surprised. I remember when they were announcing the names, and I was sitting with all my training classmates. And then I was just thinking like, oh, I don't think I'm going to be selected. I was pretty sure. I was like, okay, I'll be another year in the training class. And then when they said my name, I was like, oh, my goodness. I'm going to get to tour with Shen Yun. I was really, really excited. Looking back, I'm very, very grateful. But I think at the time, I didn't really register. I was just like, oh, my goodness. I can't believe this. That kind of feeling. You know, for those that might not be familiar with classical Chinese dance, maybe you could give me some comparisons or something just to get a sense of how what it really takes to do it. I think to do classical Chinese dance, it requires you to be really versatile because it combines a lot of different aspects. I mean, I haven't done many other dance forms really at all. But just looking at like, you know, gymnastics or certain sports that also have like demanding techniques, that takes a lot of effort. And then say other artists like painters or like ballet dancers, those things also take like that expressiveness. It takes, you know, it's something that's very subtle or something you can't necessarily touch or feel, but that can make a huge difference with whether or not you can connect to the audience. And then classical Chinese dance needs all of those. So I realized that, like, you can't just be one kind of person. Before, I used to sort of be like, OK, I'm just going to go, go, go. You know, like if I can't do it, I just practice it. And I practice it until I can do it. But then I realized sometimes the way to achieve something is not through pushing forward, but through stepping back. Like people have told me, like, oh, when you practice your jumps, you need to relax. You're using so much force that you're pushing yourself down. Like things like that, it sounds simple, but it's so much harder when your body is in like a very tense state or like it's in pain. And it's actually easier to just grit your teeth and like charge through. But then it's art form, so you can't charge through because classical Chinese dance also has like that inner bearing or like the expression of your inner world. So at the same time that you're completing technically difficult moves, you have to bring out a certain emotion or you have to be calm and composed or you have to like relax. And sometimes relaxing can be the hardest thing ever. So I think learning classical Chinese dance is like you have to have so many aspects that you can control at the same time, like on command, you know, and that's actually really difficult. Did you expect the training to be tough? Or I guess, how does the reality compare to your expectation? I did expect the training to be tough. I didn't know exactly what it would be like or how tough it would be. I just didn't have any notion of what it was going to be like at all. So it's more like a process of discovering, like, in what ways it would be tough. Like, OK, I know this is going to challenge me, but I didn't really realize exactly how. I was just like, OK, I'm just sort of going to go into this and see how it turns out. What was your process of being able to handle that? I guess just take it step by step, like bit by bit, like each time you encounter something that you didn't expect, it was like a learning process. I think the worst thing is the unknownness. Like people are like, oh, it's really painful. You know, it's really hard. And you're like, but then once you go through it, you're like, oh, it is hard. But now I know what it's like. So it's not so bad anymore because I can just mentally prepare myself. And does it sometimes go past what you prepared yourself for? Yes, it might be even harder. But then you just take note of that again. And then you get used to that process of stepping into the unknown. And then even that itself gets less and less scary. What is the role of the teacher, the dance teacher or the trainer in this process? It's probably really hard to be a teacher, actually, because I feel like they have many, many roles and they sort of adapt depending on the student and on the situation. I think from one perspective, they're sort of like a coach or like those like martial arts instructors, like they set down the rules or the requirements, you know, and they teach you like the forms, the way it's supposed to be done. But then they also have a sort of you could say softer side, but also not softer side, like almost like a parent, not just teaching you how to do the form, but teaching you how you should approach it, like how it's done, sort of teaching you the keys to success, like what sort of attitude should you use to approach this art form so that you can get the most out of it and sort of guiding you in that way. I remember I had a tumbling teacher once and then, you know, he's a really great teacher and he knows like all the ways to teach you how to do tumbling techniques. But one time during class, he told me, well, through a translator because I couldn't speak Chinese back then. He was like, oh, when you practice, you should look happier. And I was like, I should look happier. And he's like, yeah, if you always practice and you look really unhappy and serious, that's not the right attitude for approaching it. Not like even just in your head, like think positively, but like on your face, you should look like, you know, like you want to be here. And I thought, wow, that's, it's not just what he said. It's sort of like that he said it at all. Like, oh, he's the teacher. He's supposed to teach me how to do tumbling techniques, but he's also teaching me like how I should approach the class and how I should approach life, you know? And I feel like that's like sort of the many roles that a teacher would play in raising their students sort of. Did you feel like you had to kind of fake that somehow or? Sometimes, but I wouldn't say it's totally fake. Like I've heard there's like scientific studies that like, if you're unhappy, but you smile, it'll like send hormones to your brain that actually make you think you're happier. And I wouldn't say it's fake because the effort is genuine. Maybe you do feel unhappy when you smile. It's not like, oh, I'm really unhappy, but I'm giving you that like smile. It's like, I want to try and be happy. Or even if I feel unhappy right now, I want to try and put forward a positive front. So that effort there is real. It's interesting. What you're talking about is, you know, the teacher kind of giving you direction and kind of getting more out of you than you were ready to give before. If you can kind of expand on that for me a little bit. Yeah, I remember when I first came to Feitian and I wrote in my journal or somewhere once, I was like, I find it so amazing how the teacher, it's like, we're like a toothpaste tube, you know, when you reach the end and you're like, there's no more toothpaste, but you can like fold it and you always squeeze out more toothpaste. I was like, I think that's also a skill. You know, like if sometimes if you just push, push, push someone, like in one direction, like what the toothpaste do, right? It's like, you can't get anything more out of it. So it's not just a one direction push. It's like, how can you inspire someone or like inspire their dedication to something so that when they're not motivated, they still feel compelled to keep doing it. I think that's really incredible. One of my dance teachers also says, oh, I don't necessarily respect those who work really hard for a short period of time. He's like, what I really respect is people who can work really hard for like 10 years. Like if you can do that for a long time, that's really something. Because anyone can like cram for an exam or like try really hard for a short period of time, like that sort of sprinting. And you do need that sometimes, but if you can do it for many, many years, or if you can be dedicated for that long, that means that you've actually devoted yourself to it or you're being responsible to your art. What would you say was the toughest thing overall that you've had to overcome? Yeah, probably learning how to take it step by step. Yeah, like one bite at a time, like how to... I guess sometimes it feels like there's so many things to do and you're not good at any of them. And it's kind of like, where do you even start, you know? But if you get so overwhelmed or if you get too wrapped up in trying to improve yourself, it sometimes works the opposite way. And I know that sounds kind of not right, because it's like, oh, of course you want to improve yourself. But sometimes if you get too focused on a certain goal, then you kind of get narrow minded. Like you kind of block out other things and you can't clearly see the whole picture. Like for when you first start, it's like, oh, I need to do like basic flexibility. But if you don't see the bigger picture of like, why do I need basic flexibility, right? It's for the art form in general. Like it's to complete such and such moves later on. You kind of have to have the bigger picture of like, how can I systematically work on everything so that I can use it later on instead of like, I need to do this, I'm just going to do it like dead end. I guess kind of balancing those things was hard for me. So Shen Yun is pretty unique. There's the Feitian Academy. It's a school of classical Chinese dance. And the students like yourself, the prime example, will join a practicum fairly quickly if they have the talent, are able to build those skills quickly. Explain to me a little bit about how that works and the value of that in your mind. Well, for the students first, I think it's really, really valuable. I think we often like hear about other dancers or just like in China, for example, where they have so, so many people and maybe only a very, very few people get selected into China's top dance schools. And then out of those few people, it's really, really hard because there's so much competition and they train crazily. And then out of those few people, only like a couple get to perform on stage or a few get to perform on stage, maybe a few times. And for a dancer, I think part of why you want to do it is you want to share your art with an audience, right? You want to express your emotions to other people. And they get so little chances to do that. So for us, like so young, being able to join practicum and perform on stages, that's just incredible. We're so lucky. And it's like an experience that many people, we say they can only dream about, but like, really, that's true. Like people don't get to do that. And it's just like part of the natural process here. There's no way I would be anything like I am today if not for practicum. I would be a different type of dancer. Just from a purely performance perspective, it's one thing to do something in the classroom, and it's a whole nother matter to do it on stage. If you have to do like a presentation at school, it's one thing to practice it in your kitchen. It's another thing to go in front of your whole class. Things you thought you could do very easily, they suddenly become 10 times harder, right? And with dance, it's a much bigger difference. You know, a classroom and then on stage in front of a couple thousand people, like just that change in mental mindset, that level of stability you need to achieve. It's not like, oh, I'm pretty sure I can do this. It's like, I'm absolutely 100% sure I can do this with everyone together on stage. And then there's different kinds of stages because you're all over the world. So there's like different conditions or different sizes, and your body's gonna be in different states. You have to require yourself to deliver the same performance every time under different conditions. I think that is very useful in developing a dancer. If I hadn't experienced that, then I would be much less mature than I am today. And I would be much more intimidated if now someone tells me like, oh, you need to do this technique now. I'm like, oh, it's okay. I feel like I have that confidence there because I've done it before. For building a dancer's like their maturity and their skillset, that's incredible too. Like we have young dancers in their late teens who know how to handle themselves on stage. It's making them a valuable asset. Like you have a very seasoned performer, not just someone who knows how to dance, but someone who knows how to handle different situations. That's something that you can't train in a classroom. It's only something you can train through real life experience on stage. And that's what I think makes a lot of Feitian dancers really incredible like at such a young age, and they're already that seasoned. When you watch classical Chinese dance, Shen Yun, which my wife and I actually do every year, you see a lot of young dancers. So when is a classical Chinese dancer in their prime? I feel like there's not a very definitive answer to that, but I guess if you say like, for example, when's the best time to start training? Like flexibility, they say like, oh, like six to 12, right? When kids are still younger and their bodies are like softer, it's easier to train flexibility. If you're like 12 or 13, that's when you start like actually professionally training, you know. But once you get maybe like a bit past 20 or a bit before 20, if you have good command of the techniques, but you also have some understanding of artistic expression, that could be the prime. But I think it depends on each person because some people like really early on, they grasp that like stage presence. Like that's something that you usually see later on in a dancer where like they can't do as many techniques, but on stage, they're just like glowing, you know. That's something that people learn later on. But then at the same time, at that time, your body is not in peak shape. So yeah, I'd say maybe like late teens is the best. And then that's when your body is physically in peak shape probably. And what would be the higher end? Yeah, I guess it depends. Yeah, it depends on each person and their body. But I know late 20s is definitely possible. There are some people in their early 30s. And then I know we do have some dancers who are really incredible in like mid, mid late 30s or even early 40s who still keep going. But that takes a lot of, like you have to have a really good foundation. And then however, like you have to be able to be willing to push your body really hard because once you get that old, your body gets like stiffer and it's more tiring. So sometimes when people get into their 30s, they might do more acting roles and not so many of the technically like explosive pieces, which you really need younger dancers to do because younger dancers and their teens can do those things. And it's not as tiring. Like it doesn't take as much of a toll on their bodies. They can just keep going and going. And it's just, it's just great. But like when dancers get older, it's, it gets tiring and it's easier to get injuries. So they can't do as much intense things anymore. Have you changed personally over the years through being in Shen Yun? I've changed in a lot of different aspects, especially with going on practicum tour with Shen Yun. Like I kind of like to think of it as like the world is like our playground. Like just being a part of that experience in that system, I feel much more confident going out into the world, like just navigating different countries or learning about different places. I feel like now if you've dropped me anywhere, I might not be able to speak the language or I might not be able to have the skills needed, but I feel confident that I could learn them. And I think that's something I didn't have before. And then from a more, I guess a deeper aspect, I feel like I've learned to trust other people more before. Even though I have siblings, I have a mindset of protecting myself because I don't want to get hurt. But I realized afterwards that the only way to truly have a solid foundation is to trust the people around you. Even though I felt like, oh, I'm vulnerable that way. But once I actually started trusting people, I realized you're not vulnerable because when people feel that you're sincere, they feel like it warms their heart. If a friend comes up to me and shares their troubles, I don't feel like, oh, you're a bad person or whatever, or why are you bothering me? I feel very gratified. I feel touched that she would come to me for help because I know she trusts me enough and she's close enough to me that she would share that. And then it makes me feel closer to her. So I realized when you actually tell people how you're feeling, you build much stronger bonds than if you try and act like the perfect person that you think people want you to be. You know, this trust that you're describing, it strikes me that you really need to have that with your teacher, especially this person that's sort of pushing you further than you thought you could. So how do you decide that you're going to have that trust? It's sort of like a condition at the beginning. Like when I first came to the school and, you know, I'd seen Shen Yun before. I know Fei Tian trained students for Shen Yun. And so you've kind of already agreed like, okay, I see what you're doing here. You know, I agree with what you're doing. I think it's a really good thing. And I've seen the other dancers here. I've seen what they can do. And that's the sort of person I want to be. And I know that all the teachers here only have our best interests in mind. And so we've sort of like set forth these conditions that I think this is what I want to do and that's who I want to become. Therefore, I'm just going to trust you. And I'll listen to what you say and I'll try and do what you want me to do. And I think, yeah, if you don't have that trust, improvement will just be so much slower. And I think you can see this in modern schools nowadays where if people don't have respect for the teachers or they don't believe what the teachers are saying, you can't learn. Because every time the teacher says something, you're like, oh, you know, should I follow that? Should I believe it? Is this right? And I'm not saying you should be like, oh, everything I hear is like the pure truth, you know? But I mean like, oh, this is my body. It feels better for me to do it this way. And the teacher's like, no, you can't do it that way. That's not the way it's supposed to be done, you know? When you are at that sort of crossroads, that trust is so essential. And like, okay, even though my body tells me it's easier this way, the teacher says in the long run, this is not right. And so I'm going to change. And in the long run, of course, what the teacher says is actually right. But if you don't have that trust, then you're never going to have a solid set of skills. Pei Qing Academy and Pei Qing College, they're both religious schools. And that's actually kind of a pretty important part of it. So just explain that to me. Having a spiritual belief definitely helps with the training because it helps with facing life in general. Like, I think you look at life differently when you believe in something, that there is something up there higher than yourself. Like, it puts everything into a different perspective. Because for anyone doing any sort of religious or spiritual belief, you are trying to make yourself a better person. And when you have a whole school that's like that, it kind of changes the way that things are handled a little bit. You don't need to worry so much about controlling them because you know they know how to handle themselves. You can leave money lying around and people don't touch it. You know, like they tell us before tour, like, okay, guys, you need to remember you're not at the school anymore. You can't just leave your wallet on the table because it won't be there when you come back. Like, I know like before, like high schools or whatever, you know, everyone locks their lockers. You put your stuff in, you lock it, and stuff still goes missing. But like, we don't do that here. Like, I just leave my key in the locker and it's totally normal. And it's not only normal, it just gives a different feeling. It's closer to a family than a school. Shen Yun also shares that same sort of environment, just on a more professional level that makes everything more smooth, like on and off stage. Everyone has this understanding that like, okay, the way we do things here is that, you know, we're all trying to improve ourselves. We're all trying to think about how I can do better instead of pushing the blame on other people. How does traditional Chinese culture fit into the, I guess, faith and education aspects of Fei Tian and Shen Yun? In ancient Chinese culture, it's sort of like a pyramid or like a staircase. It builds up, you know, like first you try and be a good person. And then there are those like, you know, Taoists and stuff who enlighten to higher principles. And then at the end, there's like that spiritual belief, right? Learning about Chinese culture can actually help you better understand, okay, how to be a good person and then how to be a better person and how to be a spiritual person. Like it's sort of one fits into the other. And then the Chinese culture of like, they emphasize restraint a lot. Like how, you know, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, you know. And that's sort of like, you know, respect for elders, respect for teachers, and then respect for the people around you, you know. And this is like a universal value too. But I feel like that sort of ties into like religious belief or spiritual belief. Because if you can restrain your bad habit, then you can also restrain your bad behaviors. And then you're becoming a better person, but you're also, you know, sort of getting closer to the divine in a way that you're trying to perfect yourself as a person. Did you say that your freedom is restricted in this model? No, I don't think so. I remember once a classmate shared like a sort of photo with me. And then it was a picture of a pair of scissors and it was tied up. And it said like, sometimes restraint is a type of protection. And I think it's also a type of freedom because for example, if you have a kid and you tell them like, you know, like when we go out, my parents used to say like, oh, you have to be on your best behavior, right? But in a way you say like, oh, like that's a restriction, you know. I can't do whatever I want, you know. I can't be loud and noisy and run and jump on everything, you know. But at the same time, it's a type of freedom because if my parents know that we'll behave ourselves, then they will take us to more places. And I want to go to more places, you know, like I want to go do fun stuff. So I know that, oh, if I can restrain myself, then I'll actually get more. And you want to get more, so you restrain yourself. If you look at it at the beginning, it's like, oh, maybe it's like controlling. But then if you actually look at the bigger picture, that is a very small sacrifice compared to what you're going to get later, which is something better. So I think it doesn't feel like it's restricting. You're talking about something, I think, called delayed gratification in the psychological literature. And actually, it's very interesting because that's correlated highly with actually success in life. That's one of these factors. So maybe, do you feel like that's something that was a big part of your education or how important was that in your education? Oftentimes, things you gain right away, well, for one, you're not going to appreciate them as much. You're not going to value them as much because it was easy to get. So it doesn't seem as valuable. It doesn't seem as precious. If you had to work for something or even not work for it, even if you just had to wait for it, it feels that much better to get it. And then once you actually build that mindset, I think it's a much more mature mindset. You know how to handle things instead of being like, I must have it now. That's modern society. I need it now. I need it right now. My attention span is like eight seconds. If I don't get it, I'm moving on to the next thing. But then if you're always like that, then you can't appreciate things with more meaning or things that are deeper because you need something like now, now, now. You've committed quite a few years to this now. Do you feel like you've maybe missed out on anything? No, I don't think I've really missed out on anything because I guess if you say, compared to a different sort of life, then yes, I haven't done everything. Some other people have done, but at the same time, because when I came here, I said, I want to live the life of a dancer. Then I think as a dancer, I don't think I've missed anything. And in fact, I've experienced much more than I thought I would. So things that people might consider like missing out, like, oh, I don't have like normal, like going to parties every weekends with friends or like those sorts of things. Why do people do those things? You know, why do you go to those parties in the first place? Or why do you go to the movies or whatever? You know, like it's to, you know, build a bond with your friends or build a bond with people close to you or to relax. I have all those things. I just obtain them in a different form, you know, and I actually have them even more than I think many people, because I'm with my friends every day. And I think having them around me has also taught me to appreciate my friends and my family more, even though I'm not always by their side, I've sort of become a more mature person and I appreciate all my relationships more. So you never go to the movies? No, we do. Not, yeah, not the way maybe normal high school or college students will, but on campus, they actually play movies quite often. So I definitely didn't miss out on that actually, yeah. You're right now in your second year of college. You're dancing with Shen Yun. You've actually won a competition in dance, which congratulations. If you were to give a pep talk to your, you know, past self, your younger self, what would you tell her? Slow and steady wins the race. That sounds pretty cliche, but really like don't be overwhelmed by everything and don't feel like you need to do everything all at once. It is so much better to just take everything bit by bit, work hard at it, but do it solidly. Like do each thing solidly and don't feel so rushed to achieve the result. Like do every little bit solidly, because each of those little bits is going to build up into a foundation and that foundation is something that you always be able to rely on later. Whereas if you just sort of like build it like a house of cards as fast as you can and as high as you can, it just collapses like that and that's not something you want. What are your plans for the future? From a dance perspective, besides like continuing to try and work on my physical technique, I want to keep maturing the way I express my art, how to connect with the audience better, or like as my understanding of Chinese culture deepens and as my understanding of the art form deepens, I want to try and like find out more how I can sort of transmit Chinese culture through my dance, transmitting that essence and just kind of keep growing and then like become a more mature artist, I guess. You were talking to some new students that are perhaps thinking of applying to Feitian. What would you tell them? Before you apply to Feitian or before you join Feitian, you have to make sure you really want to do it. Like make sure it's something you want to do because it is hard, but it's only as hard as you make it out to be. It's very worthwhile. It's like, you know, people who go like climb Mount Everest or something, like is it hard? Yeah, I'm sure it's really, really hard, but for them like that is, it's so worth it when they get to the top or even if they don't get to the top, just like that experience for them is so rewarding. So I think if you take that as something, if it's very valuable to you, then it's not going to be as hard. So if you're sure you want to do it, then do it. But if you're not sure, then you're just going to make it harder for yourself and it's just going to be painful because your heart's not there. If you were just to very briefly tell, you know, the audience us what to expect in this upcoming Shen Yun tour, what would you say? I'd say that it is a very exhilarating and uplifting experience. It's a very rich experience and it is just the full package, you know, if you want to experience and understand Chinese culture without leaving where you live, without learning Chinese, without flying to China, you know, have that sort of immersive experience, then that's something you can expect from Shen Yun and I think it's something you will not regret. Well, Lillian Parker, it's such a pleasure to have had you on again. Thank you. Thank you all for joining Lillian Parker and me on this episode of American Thought Leaders. I'm your host, Jan Jekielek.