Andrew Garfield & Ryan Reynolds | Actors on Actors

Garfield, I'm a big fan. And I was nervous when I came here. I'm either gonna die or I'm gonna follow this. And it was like Truman Show. Are we gonna talk about it? Is there anything we should be careful to not talk about? Andrew's lower back tattoo. The tasteful, Deadline Hollywood font with the title. That might be tough for, right? Okay. All right. But the Penske media on the back, like it kind of covers the whole umbrella. It's parent company, Andrew. And they just have them all and everything. You know, all tap water. They got that too. All right. Fuckin' hell. All right. Okay. I think we've begun. We have. I think, yeah. Are you asking first or? Well, I was. Yeah. I had just asked you. It must be hard for you in terms of anyone taking anything you say all too seriously. Well, yeah. But you know, I once worked with Will Ferrell and I did that with him. I was like, everything he said, which was sometimes just, you know, as mundane as like, you know, was a little concerned about the prostate, but it turns out it's fine. I'm like, I just giggle and you realize, oh no, he had a moment there where he, so I have a bit of that, but I don't have, that is just a poorly constructed self-defense, maladaptive coping mechanism. It doesn't, you know, I have a, it's like, you know when, like in the movies when like the two people are struggling for control of the gun and then suddenly the gun goes off and the lights go out and for one terrible moment we kind of don't know who's been hit. It's like that sort of like sometimes feels like my base emotion. So I have these, all these other things that kind of, not just cover that up, but allow me to be at ease when I might not be at ease. Alchemize, sublimate. Yeah. Move the energy into something. Yeah, but then never like, you never want to be, because like what you said is like, do people sometimes assume that? Well, because you've said, just for the people that weren't privy to our private conversations earlier, you know, you've said some very sincere things to me and I was wavering. I was like, how do I? Oh, right. I don't want to laugh at something that's not meant to be laughed at. No, but it's okay to laugh. I would never think when I meet people and I'm away from cameras and lights to ever put on a show or even if I'm feeling crazy on the inside, I would be quiet and reserved and kind of straight down the line. So, because like, can you imagine like meeting people and you're just doing theater? It was actually, speaking of Will Ferrell, that's what I loved about him, every time we chatted, it was about some matter of the heart. It wasn't like a bit, and then we would get into bits sometimes, but for the most part, he's a very thoughtful and sensitive person. And not to make our variety actors and actors about Will Ferrell, but like the documentary that he just made is a kind of a beautiful, strange little opening into a part of him that we don't often get to have access to. But I think that's the operating system. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Say your operating system is like, what is your, if this isn't too personal, but what's the thing you kind of push against? Because having a public persona, they never reconcile with the private, I don't think. I mean, very rarely. Can you talk more about what you mean by that in terms of you? What is your like baseline? Like some people are, we meet people all the time. Some people are, their baseline is just joyful and optimistic. Some people are insecure. Some people are coiled with anxiety. Some people are all of them at once. Some of them are, I don't know. I find it hard to describe. I find it hard to reduce or to minimize or to even put words on it. I, yeah, I think I'm a generally hopeful, positive, gosh, it's hard to avoid cliche. I think I'm someone who is always looking for warmth and always looking for love and kindness in every room I'm in or in every piece of art I'm engaging with or in any given moment. So I think I'm in, and maybe that's just because, I think it's probably related to my mother because she was that first umbilical connection. She was that to me. She was just this pure kind of angelic love energy and has remained that ever since. It was the complications that I don't need to go into, but I think that's my baseline. So what did your mother do to you to make you think that, always believe that someone might have been shot in the dark? It was my dad, Andrew. Thank you for bringing that up. Um, yeah. Does anyone have a crude sock puppet that I can use to explain this? Because I don't know how to do it. I think it's interesting to me about my relationship with my father, which was very complicated and difficult. My dad was a very like, you know, I come from a middle class, kind of blue collar home, and my dad was just of that generation where it's just like, he was Clint Eastwood, less is more. Simple grunts is how he communicated. Okay, gotcha. And I think people tell themselves stories and this sort of comes back to your worldview that you just mentioned about looking for this warmth and kindness. People tell themselves stories about other people. And then I think we have some responsibility as we grow older and more mature and grow into who we actually are to question that a little bit. And I've done that a bit more in the last five years, I would say, where I really know myself, where I didn't before. I didn't know myself until I was probably 40-ish. I feel at least. And that has been the greatest gift of getting older is like, that's a superpower in itself. But I ask that question often. Is that true? Was my dad as challenging as I like to think? Or am I romanticizing that to pave over all these other things with whatever the drug is, accomplishment or, you know, or whatever. But the story is not true. It's not. You know, nobody's black and white. There's no binary code that tells us this or that. But the wound is real. Whatever that wound is, whether or not it was intentional, whether or not it was completely due to this person. But there's an old idea that I really like, which is we come into this world already wounded. And it's usually one of two of our parents knows exactly how to crack open that wound. Yeah. And actually, it's part of the destiny of each individual person to have that very specific wound cracked open so that we can actually live into our gift. Wow. Because our greatest and deepest gift. Yeah. Are right next to that most primal, kind of built in wound. Of course. But thank God for that. You know, it gives us this, I have to, I have four kids and I need to really start working on those wounds. Start getting them. You. Setting those arrows. Where's the weak spot? The five year old? No weak spot at all. Wow. That's a weak spot. Born on the same day as Napoleon. And it wasn't until six months ago where she realized that she was like, I can't, you know, I was born on the same day as Napoleon Dynamite. I was like, I'm sorry, what? She was like Napoleon Dynamite. I was like, no, Napoleon Bonaparte. Not the Utah dictator. The French. But those stories we tell and those things that kind of screw us up or we think screwed us up are the exact weird kind of burgoo that gets us to have a carve a place out in the world. And I also, you know, noticed that that story, letting go of that story has actually been one of the greatest gifts. Really? It's made me closer to my dad as since he's passed. As a spirit, yeah. And what you said about, because I recently lost a very, one of my closest friends in the world. What you said about grief and how grief is this like sort of, I'm completely paraphrasing, but it's this like very powerful force and sort of torrent that feels kind of out of control. But it's sort of a manifestation of unexpressed love or love that has nowhere to go now. And that resonated with me in so many ways that I can't even count. And I was really grateful for that because I speak at his memorial and he was the guy that really gave me every tool I use now. He's the guy that actually, he was my university. I didn't even make it through high school. So he, you know, I moved to Los Angeles. He was my, you know, he was like, he liked me and that kind of made me like me. And I think, you know, and you know, when you're at that age where you're trying on all your personalities, like shirts, you're like, who am I? Who am I? Yeah. Is he older than you? Oh yeah. He was like 14 years older or so. Yeah. Mentor. He was like some kind of mentor. A comedy writer, but they appreciated old forgotten things. And I, but he's really like, I wouldn't be in a fortunate position. I am in this business, but he hadn't kind of pushed me into writing rooms, like with real heavyweight, real writers. That's beautiful. And I'm super, super grateful to him. But you, you really helped me kind of understand. Sometimes you have a gift of like, taking a huge concept. I've noticed. And turning it into a very simple construct. You're somebody who has a high emotional quotient, obviously, but also very intelligent as well. But that's a, that's a gift by the way. You know, you shrink wrap hell into these little tiny bite-sized pills. Bite-sized little. Yeah. That's kind of you to say. My mind is going in lots of different directions from what you've just shared. And I'm thinking about mentorship and I'm thinking about how vital those moments of blessing that we all human beings absolutely need. And it's usually not in the family system. It's usually someone who is removed enough and objective enough to have no dog in the fight in a way. So your friend Eric was maybe the first? Or was he first kind of, you know, I mean, I saw him when I was just this desperately hungover 19 year old on a general meeting with him. I, I didn't want to tell him, I had thrown up in the rosebush outside of his bungalow. It was the only bush outside of the bungalow. I don't know how I hit it. This was in LA? This was in a studio in LA? Yeah, he had a deal at 20th Century Fox. How exciting must that day have been for you to go onto the fox lot and vomit in the shrubs? Well, I mean, terrible. But it's fantastic though. But Eric was so warm and this, he had this, this energy where he was like, he was this person. And this was what the rest of his life just showed up. So when we did a memorial, we, it was 300 of his best friends and nobody felt any kind of particular proprietary nature over him. They just felt that love and who he was. I mean, he was a guy, I remember I called him once from Germany and I said, I was having a terrible time. I must've been 22. And I was, you know, homesick and heartbroken. And I said, I don't know, I'm going to go to this place called the Grenadier Pub tomorrow. I think they have, apparently they have a good meal. They have good food or something. And I got there finally the next day. It was in upper Northern England. And in the back of the pub, he was sitting there. He'd flown from Los Angeles, you know, two beers and a. Holy shit. Yeah, he's like that kind of guy where he just. Oh my God, like an angel, like an angel on a. Yeah, he really used his overall deal with 20th Century Fox the right way. Not produce any kind of work or shows or writing. He sort of did that. Now it's just living. And he did. He did keep writing beautifully. But he was. Yeah, he was a guy that never said no to an adventure. Oh, that's amazing. But who was your mentors or something? My unmargo. I was a very lost teenager. I was very, I was, I was an athlete and I gave all that up. And I, my, my brother was already a successful academic and training to be a doctor. And that kind of left this horrendous. Like there was a, there was a sense of like, oh, I guess I'm not needed in this. But anyway, I had this amazing drama teacher that came into my life at, at 16. And he, he basically said, I see you. I see that you can, that you have something here. And I was doing just a school play. And it was, and I was just like, it was like a dog with a bow. Like, like, I'm either going to die or I'm going to follow this. And it was like Truman Show. Like it was like the, the door opening in the, in the sky. But what, like, that's oftentimes it's a one. One moment. Sentence. It's a tiny little thing. And we live in time. There's so much humanity. And there is a performance there that feels like you, I don't know, when I look at great performances, I, I, the first thing, and maybe it's lazy, but I think how close to this person's life, like they chose the story to tell. You obviously chose this story that you felt compelled to tell it. What, what is it about? We live in time. What is it about that interconnected relationship with Florence Pugh's character element that made you go? Yeah, that, I have that. Oh God. I don't know if you feel this way, but I feel like, and it's obviously the thematic for the film. I've, I've been initiated recently into a new visceral understanding of how fucking short this visit is on this planet, in this body, in this miracle. And I feel this crazy new urgency. I had a different kind of urgency in my twenties and my thirties, I think, which was, as you kind of referenced earlier, kind of patching over, like trying to deal with the woundedness in a way of like, whatever that addiction is, whether it's validation or like planting a flag and going, I'm safer. I'm like, my feet are here. And I, the sky isn't going to fall in. I'm worthy in this kind of whatever capitalistic system. And now the urgency is very, it's like an urgency that was there previously has become much more predominant, which is a spiritual urgency, which is an urgency of like living life as fully and as vitally. And as like, I only want to do the things that speak to my soul, that I feel like I am the vessel for to get into the world, whatever that is. Like there are certain great films that I will not be a part of because that's not for me. I don't know why, but it's just not for me. And then I'm like, oh, it was for that fucking person. Get in there and do it. So like, I feel with that one, it just came across my desk and I was like, oh fuck, this is definitely for me. It was just that simple. It was just like, oh no, this is definitely for me because I'm living this right now. My dad is living this right now. I have friends who are living versions of this right now. And I don't know if anything matters more than love and a kind of awakening to how miraculous and how short and how sacred being alive is. And obviously I think culturally right now, there's so much to point to a kind of a numbness and a sleepwalking-ness and a lack of awareness of how fucking, I don't know, how life matters. And that there's such a kind of destruction and a reduction of life mattering or that a soul, that we all have a soul mattering. There's this kind of homogeny that I feel like we're all just being kind of made into this globule of meaninglessness. So I'm just trying to kind of like- Or categorization. It's just you're this or you're this. Right. And the less nuanced, the better. And I noticed that I felt that watching the film because it's sort of like, obviously there was much about it that felt like it must have been personal and I don't presume that. I mean, it may not be. But I mean, it sounds like some of it really was. But it's also like having just been to a memorial for a friend that was irreplaceable. 27 years of friendship and just gone. So much of what we do here and so much to me and sort of what I talked about a little bit was that heaven is actually what you leave behind. Yes, exactly. My idea, I sort of framed it like my five-year-old asked me that terrible question, that question, what happens when we die? Right. And I went through it basically saying like, you know, the memories that of somebody that you love, like, you know, your mom, my dad or Eric for me, really more than almost anyone I've ever lost is him. They change, you know, they kind of morph. I can still see his face like it's right here, but they change into like what his actual kind of essence was or something and then it goes from that to like a place or a feeling. It's also why I love movies because when they're at their best, they transcend the medium and become a feeling or a place. And that place is like a house almost that I get to visit. And the walls are his sense of humor. The floor is his stupid walk. The roof above our head is his sometimes sadness and his joy and his kindness to others and his acknowledgement of everyone regardless of what they did. And he treated, you know, a waiter or a bus boy at a restaurant the same way he would treat a movie star. I hated that. Yeah, no, he was wrong for that. Yeah, it was definitely wrong. He missed the mark there. But I sort of see it as a destination and I felt when I was watching Live in Time that it was like a place. The movie had a feeling. That's nice, yeah. And your interactions with Florence Pugh's character and how much room you left for her was like this radical act of generosity that I hadn't, you don't see in films too much because we're very troubled by nuance sometimes as studios tend to, you know, drag the consumer down toward the bottom line by their wallet. Sometimes we leave all the other shit behind and what I appreciated so much with the film, your performance, everyone's performance and A24 who obviously make pretty special films was that there was a lot of that and there was room for that and it felt like an experience that was special because we don't get that kind of storytelling as often, you know, anymore that we live in that, you know, the terms of endearment kind of feeling where you just get to sort of be in a place for a while. Tobias, so sorry, but do we know each other? I watched the film last night. I watched Deadpool Wolverine last night and I hadn't seen it. You actually had it on your Apple Watch, didn't you? I, no, I had my- That's how I watched We Live in Time and I'm telling you, it's really fucking hard to like hold, you know, the attention and stuff like that. You're like, oh fucking, this is like, how do kids do this? Can you just, can you let me, can you let me go somewhere? Yeah, sure. So I, as soon as it started, I was like, there's no way. There's no way, there's no way they allowed him to do all of this. How the fuck did you, well, first of all, I think the audacity, because you're like the head writer on this film, which is kind of an amazing, you know, place for you to be in. Yeah, I'm lucky to be able to, yeah. Yeah, but it's also connected back to Eric, connected back to your giftedness. You're obviously, you're doing something in writing that I don't think, I don't know anyone else who's doing in terms of peeling back the onion of the self-awareness and metaness and also retaining a heart and really providing a genuine service to fans while not shying away from that, while also kind of mocking the layers of self-mockery are kind of impossible to decipher. It's really inspiring because it does feel like a new form in a way. So first of all, I'm wondering how you had the, you got to the place of having the audacity to write in such a fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth wall breaking kind of vibe. And then how did you convince everyone that it would work? That's a good question. I look at authorship and control or however you want to frame it as trust. Like, you know, I have to, my part of my job, well, I have several parts of the job, which is one is that I have to convince the studio who is, you know, making a significant investment in, you know, mine and Sean Levy's ability to land the plane on a dime. And our job is to return that investment. And that really is a big construct of this business. And it's something that I found quite illuminative when it really snapped in 10 years ago to me that that is a part of the job. But I mean, making the money back, I spent a long time doing, and I still want to revisit it, but I spent a long time doing work and roles that were incredibly fulfilling and nuanced and different and unexpected and character-y. And movies that were received really well by maybe critics and stuff, but not audiences. And I thought, well, I have to, if I want to continue to play and do this, I have to figure out how to work both sides of the room here and make sure that part of my job is choosing work that will beget more of this experience that I love. So was that, would you say, a practical consideration as well, because it feels like not just practical, it feels not just survival, it feels like creative simultaneously as well. I'm curious about that. I had a point of view when I was, when I had no power. And I say no power very loosely because somebody in my position has no power. We're white guys. Yeah, exactly. You're eased out with systemic power. So I say that with a grain of salt, but what I mean is I would be on big movies. And I would be nervous and I knew the stakes, but I had absolutely no input into what happens. And when you have a point of view and it can't be expressed, even though you try. Like something, a monkey rattling a cage, it's going to start chewing the bars. Terrible feeling. And people, when you do try to express the point of view and you're sort of placated or told that we're not going to do that, or you say something that sort of feels reasonable, like let's stop spending on spectacle and let's spend on character or why are we putting all the money in special effects when we could just write? And that's sort of dismissed. If that happens a couple of times, you sort of go, okay, but at the end of the day, they're not writing the story about how Philistine movie bombs. They're saying they use the actor who's in it. I own the bomb. So I felt like if I'm going to bomb or win, I want to have a say in it and I want to have some authorship. And if I'm going to bomb, I want to be the architect of my own demise. I don't want to be a passenger on someone else's nosediving jet plane. Totally. Wanted to be something. Shit, I wanted to be an Avenger. Fuck the Avengers. I didn't make the cut though. Same with the X-Men. For the record, I'm less curious about this question. I think certain people might want to know about it. I smell what you're stepping in, Andrew Garfield, and I will blow through this answer as quickly or as slowly as you want. I could find a previously undiscovered eighth circle of hell. Speaking of lack of autonomy in creativity, I have a question for you about the Deadpool suit. The Deadpool suit, because it's evolved since you first slung it on to now and I'm just curious about the evolution of that. I knew it. I could tell it from the tip of your tongue when we met backstage, Shannon. I've been really holding it in. I know. The suit is someone who knows what it's like to wear one of the full... Mine, of course, is made of individually wrapped Gaelic toffees. Oh, wow. The suits are tough, but to me, the suits are freeing in that I find it's clown work that I'm doing. Oh, I love... It's a great answer. A great answer. Well, thank you. I have to rely on my voice for micro facial expressions where you would normally have to... I rely on my body for more macro expressions and all of that comes from being... Well, my friend Eric a bit, he was obsessed with Jack Benny and Buster Keaton, Harold Lloyd, Chaplin and Marcel Marceau. And framing. So the only person I'll argue with on the set is the cinematographer because they will want to make the shot dynamic and move the camera and I would say, static, lock that sucker off. It's always gonna be funnier to enter the frame than to find me and bring me in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Suddenly, it's making you part of the story. Exactly. So... How funny. It's so funny. There's such a simple thing that just is. It's so strange. Yeah, but pushing through the suit is challenging. And you also... I look at suits a little bit differently, I think, is that there's always gotta be a why. Deadpool wears the suit because he's in a slightly militarized shame spiral and his coping mechanism is humor. Wolverine is the one I was really worried about. Oh, really? Yeah, because right away, people are bringing Hugh back in this iconic role and writing Wolverine dialogues. One of the scariest things I've ever done. Oh, really? Well, there's a scene you may remember in the van where he just tears me apart. Yeah, I saw that scene before the film because it was a clip that most people who loved the film were like, this is the essence of this dynamic and how incredible. But it's a gamble because he's saying more in that one monologue than he says in an entire movie, typically. So Sean and I were very worried about that. But the suit that he's wearing is a hair shirt and that's how we sort of described it, which is that it's a penance. It's wearing his shame. And so we now have a visual totem when he's at the end of the film, when he's out of the suit, you feel this like he's unburdened himself of this bag of rocks that he's carrying. And I love narrative arcs. I love emotional arcs. And I really love visual arcs. So the suits are very important. For me, it really is old-fashioned clown work. That's the best. And then for Hugh, it's like it's a huge component to why this character is back. That's great. I'll ask about Hugh. Obviously, a beloved figure and someone who... You guys have a very close... 17 years. ...friendship. Yeah, I love him. He's just one of the best men I know. Was he immediately excited or did it take some convincing? What was that process? It was very similar to the studio, which is the lazy story and the easy story is that they were obstructionist or it's the exact opposite. Disney and Marvel, they were so supportive from the jump. I had one line that Bob Iger wanted out of the movie and we took it out. Which was? I'll never repeat it. I promise. Oh my God, you're a man of your word. I will leak like a sieve. Dude, you're a man of your word. That's beautiful. Yeah, and so they were incredible partners. And Hugh authored his own return, but it was meant to be because the first pitch I had for Marvel and Kevin Feige five years ago was a Deadpool Wolverine movie in the Rashomon style, which is his perspective and mine, and then an objective. Oh, cool. And they said no. So then I pitched the most idiotic movie. One was a Sundance movie I pitched them. No special effects, no conflict. It might be a scene like any good Sundance movie where I'm, I don't know, there's like, it's a four minute wonder of me taking a shit or pissing or something that just tells the audience this is raw and vulnerable and we're going there. And then I pitched one where I'm like, it's a two hander with me and the hunter who shot Bambi's mom, which was, you know, their answer was, we don't touch Bambi, Ryan. Okay, we don't touch Bambi. It's the crossover that we've all been wanting. So it's a lot of, it was like a year and a half of just tap dancing until Hugh called and said, I want to come back and do this. So it was hidden though. Yes, so it was sort of weirdly faded. And I then went back to them and said, and they said, yes, I can tell you have a sort of, don't get too close. I'll only break your heart vibe going here. But Every Other Wolverine would have really hurt me by now. And I'm sort of on the tick tick. So Upsy Daisy, here we go. I don't know if you find this in We Live in Time or any of the incredible body of work that you have, but like going into it, there's these deliberate choices that you guys made. And there's one that killed me and it was, and I've been my own version of it, but you and Florence Pugh's character are trying, you're shaving her head. Oh yeah. And it is one of those moments that when you have kids and you guys are, we're going through something that is really hard. Yeah. And we are pulling back all of our emotions to stay kind of strong for our kids. It's also important to model. Yeah. Falling apart, what it looks like. For sure. Conflict resolution. How's that look? Yeah. To do things in front of them. But that I relate to. Just so grave and so intense. And parents sort of posturing and faking it around them. I find that to be, I sobbed in that scene and I could sob now just thinking about it. Not only that, Florence is really shaving her head. Yeah, yeah. Which has got to be cathartic and crazy and feel very emotional. It was two cameras, one take obviously. And then it'll clean up bits. Trust and faith is everything. And I don't know about you, but I don't imagine I'm ever going to start something new and feel like I know how to do it. I really don't think that's ever going to, I'm 41 and I'm like, I don't know. I'm still, it's just an old friend at this point. What is the nighttime skincare routine? Because I'm 41. Wow, what? Okay, sorry. Carry on. I was, no, we didn't need that. Thank you. My mother, she always looked, she literally always looked 10 years younger than she was. So it's all down to her. But yeah, I remember I was in rehearsals for Angels in America that we were doing. Nice light lift. And it was like week two or week three of an 11 week process. And Tony Kushner comes to visit us in London. That's when we did the London run before the New York run. I have a relationship with Tony. I'm friendly with Tony through Mike Nichols. And we've been very excited about doing this together for a long time and for me to play this part. And he's going to sit through for our first rough run through of act one and two of part one of Angels in America. No crash. But I didn't feel the, I was like, you know what? I'm still in that kind of like- Sometimes when it's so big, you just- Yeah, I'm just like, I don't fucking know. I'm still in that wonky exploratory, I have no idea where this is going to go phase. And we do it and I'm like, hey, yeah, we got through that. And I look at Tony, he can't look at me. No. He literally can't make eye contact with me. This is all going back to the stories we tell. This is the story that I have. Yeah, of course. In the ticket tape in my head. You later find out his eyes don't work. That's what the problem is. He was going through some cataract issue. And I'm like, oh wait, no, he's really not able to look at me. Oh, and he's leaving. Oh, he said something to that person. He's leaving. Okay, okay. Oh no. So literally, I get visited by the ghost of Christmas shame. And it's like, it kind of like arrives again, the lights on my shoulder as I'm walking up the South Bank. The face gets hot, the ears get hot. Oh yeah, no, yeah, no, totally. It's like, oh no, I would rather not be alive. Yes. In this moment than be alive. Like there's no longing for life anymore. Painful way to take my own life. No, I wasn't, it wasn't so much that. It was more just, I wasn't quickest. It's a brulee torch, isn't it? It wasn't like a self-punishing suicide that I wanted. I wanted just a very easy, like, just let me drift and be everything and remember none of this matters. Yeah, you just want to walk straight into the ocean. Straight into the river. There was the river right there. It's full of toxic waste. At some point it'll get me. Like, I don't want any treatment. I'm gonna fuck a microwave. That's what I'm gonna do. But literally, and I mean that literally. I don't mean literally as in metaphorically. I was literally like, how do I not survive this? But it's a spectrum of humanity. We all think, have those moments of like ordinary extremes. And I'm stood by the edge of the Thames and I'm like, oh, hello, old friend. And he's like, yes, hello. And I'm like, well, okay. So we have two choices, I guess. It's like, we either throw ourselves into the river. If Capra were Kushner, Capra would be like, off you go, off you go, George Bailey. One of my favorite films of all time. Maybe, maybe number one. I probably revisited it a couple thousand times. In terms of its essence. In terms of the things we started talking about. I don't need to watch it all. I need to just be on. Yes. And then the other choice was to go back and go to the next rehearsal. Yes. So I was like, okay, I guess I'll just go and rehearse again. And like, live in that shame. This is exactly why you're you. Because I think people... No, I'm just... Take it, take it, Garfield. No, but I think it's all artists. I think it's all creative people. Probably ought to get going. Why? Who says? I don't know. It's a wonderful life. It is. Now that the movie worked on the scale that it did. Ten minutes, right? It does. You know, I have an unquenchable thirst for validation. And I farm out my self-worth to external approval in this way that I... Honestly, I know shrinks will tell you to steer away from that. But it's pretty damn gratifying. It's been good for you. It's my version just of a gigantic pile of coke. No, but seriously, though. What does the future hold? Deadpool and Wolverine? I honestly, you know, I'm not making this up. I don't. My feeling is that that character works very well in two ways. One is scarcity and surprise. It's been six years since the last one. And part of the reason is that it swallows my whole life. You can't take your hand off the stick all the way through development, through post-production, into marketing and promo. And then you kind of, I have four kids and I don't want to be... I don't ever want to be on a first name basis with any of them. No, I don't ever want to be absentee and I don't ever want to miss stuff. I like trying to die inside when I see their face and they have a competition or they do a sports thing or something and I missed it. So I don't know what the future of Deadpool will be. But I do know that Sean and I made the movie to have a beginning, a middle, an end and be a complete experience instead of a commercial for another one. And I love that. I think it's sort of important sometimes to make space for a movie to just be a movie. The other thing is I see Deadpool as a supporting character much more than he is the center. We center him sometimes because that's what they want. But you can't center him unless you take everything away from him. You have to create a situation where he's so much the underdog. And I don't think I can do that again. So I think if he comes back, it's going to be in someone else's movie. Channing Tatum, so excited to play Gambit. And I would happily be the fifth banana in his movie or anyone else's. I love the currency of, you know, you did this in Spider-Man No Way Home so beautifully where you're weaving like DNA strands, culture, and a cultural conversation with a narrative in a movie. The power of redemption is something that, it's like being in an airplane trying to hit a bullseye in the Grand Canyon. It's just a very difficult thing. And you guys in that movie did it in such a way that you, I mean, people, I burst into tears. Everybody burst into tears because you have all that cultural currency and cachet. Deadpool Wolfman, the best feelings I've ever had is sitting in Hall H at Comic-Con and watching Wesley Snipes cross the frame. And what's happening in that people are crying. There's some people wailing. And what's happening is that they realize in an instant, without maybe intellectualizing it this exact way, but they desperately missed this person, but they didn't know they missed him. And that's like when you can get something like that, you know, those moments when you're back in the spider suit and you get this chance to do something that you didn't do before. And it's why I think it's okay to also, you know, to appreciate the spectrum of our business, which is that you make movies like we live in time and, you know, tick, tick, boom, and you're doing angels. I mean, these are intimate kind of character pieces. And then there's also, you do these movies that are also people all over the world get to flood and have that collective effervescence in a movie theater of experiencing something really beautiful. I don't know, there's something about it that I feel like it's easy to dismiss sometimes, but what the emotion and the way you moved people in both of those movies, which are so different, is I think very, is fascinating and singular, you know, in a certain way, singular to you, like you and only you were put on this earth to do those. Sorry, you're getting it. Garfield, I'm a big fan and I was nervous when I came here. You went with the full blue. I went with the UPS delivery sort of feeling. I overthought it. I realized that, but that's because of you. I was nervous. I was excited. I have so many questions that I didn't get to, which I'm going to drive home with you. I have also been sleeping under your bed for a long time now. Wow, a Hastins mattress. Those are expensive. How did you know it was Hastins? Hey, look, it's horse hair. It's of course not Hastins. Well, to see the apostrophetic on the one side, anyway, it doesn't matter. I have so many questions about We Live in Time too, but did you miss playing that? When you came back to that, how did that feel? Yeah, lovely. Just lovely. It's not that I missed it. It felt undone. It felt undone for me, like I imagine you've felt with your version of that. It was just very gratifying. It was just very like, you know, it's like you're invited to a party and then the party ends slightly prematurely than you wanted it to end. And then you're like, I've got to reckon with being disinvited to this party. And that's when the work happens, right? That's when you start to really deal with your own stuff and your own relationship to self, relationship to perception, relationship to validation or to inclusion, disclusion. But it's all inside job stuff. There's nothing to do with the outside. It's just like you and you. Where have I felt like I'm not invited to the party? And why is this hitting me in this way? So I did all of... Rinald too. Yeah, so it was like a few years of that kind of like... And I'm so grateful for it in retrospect. And even during, I was like, yeah, this is soul work. It's so funny that it's been like prompted by this very... But not funny at all because it's like the three-year-old. One of the first photos of me as a three-year-old is in a Spider-Man costume. That my mother made out of felt. So it's fucking like... It is primal. It's really... And I'm like, oh my God, this person, this character, it means so fucking much to me. You also set the table and the stage for Redemption. And honestly, I'm so... You were an amazing Spider-Man. Thanks, man. Like amazing Spider-Man. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart. That's very kind, thank you. It was so fluid and fun. And kind of like you kept that metronome of like comedy mixed with like pathos that only a teenager would go. It's, I don't know. It's, I was really... That's really kind. But coming back and Amy Pascal reaching out and asking me about it. It was like, yeah, being re-welcomed into the party. And it could be a party finally. Because like kind of what you said about Deadpool being more of an adjacent peripheral, like the more scarce character. There was something so soothing about it being a playpen actually for the first time. Like for me and Toby, for Toby and myself. Well, when it gets to be that loose. The pressure was on Tom. Tom had to hold that. Is it like prison though? When you get into prison the first like hour, you got to shank the biggest guy. And you got to do it fast and you can't let him see it coming, right? But in this instance, Tom, he's not giant. But he's a, you know, he's... Did you just... Were you just like this fucking kid? Did you get in there and just like take the toothbrush or whatever out of the prison wallet? And just like quick sort of Eric Bana style from... What is that Australian? Chopper, yeah. What was cool was, is that like, I was like, got you suckers. Because like you reminded me back to the party. But the plan all along was to absolutely undermine the whole process. But also it was a beautiful thing to genuinely be, feel like you're a support of a spider brother. And I don't, I do mean that sincerely. Like it was a genuinely lovely. And John Watts, such a great director. And he was so loose. He was so relaxed. I was like, so what are we going to do about what's on the page? Because we need to work on it. I was like, yeah, yeah, we'll work on it. And he's like, okay, but when? He's like, well, we'll improvise a lot. I'm like, great. Great, really? But that's, isn't... It was beautiful. Because movies, I think, are really interesting. And they will talk to you. If you listen to them, they will speak to you. And they'll speak to you loudly. And sometimes when things go wrong, we're too focused on hanging onto the script. And too focused with the shot list. But to look around and go, whoa, what's it actually telling us? Exactly. What's, what are we, what do we have? And I love that idea that you can, I love being able to pivot. And responsibly, not in a way that stresses people out. But it was like, suddenly like, oh, we have an opportunity that no one's ever had. Where it's like a support, like a Spider-Man support. Yeah. What does that look like? Let's really go down to like the nuts and bolts of like the studs. What could that look like? What can we, what's the dynamic that we could build that is completely specific and unique to these particular Spider-People? I think We Live in Time has that looseness throughout the whole thing. I have to ask this because it was driving me crazy. There's a script, a great script. Yeah. But there's no way that you guys are... I mean, it just, there's so much beautiful. How Howard Hawks would overlap and have that real feeling. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would assume that that looseness, which is like a lot of 70s movies always felt like that, must come from you guys being on set and just being, play. Not often. I mean, it was very playful in our dynamic and in our, it didn't feel like performance, it felt like living. But the script was really fucking airtight. Well, then that's a real testament to your craft. Yeah, Nick Payne is an amazing writer. And Florence Pugh is... And Florence Pugh, yeah, she's a legit star. One of the best living actors. I agree. I fully, fully agree. So yeah, it was a combination of those things. I'm glad it felt loose because it felt loose to us. It felt honest and lived through. I think that's beautiful. Bryce Destner, who did the music on the movie, he's part of The National and the music and it was... I would love that. I looked it up afterwards, like, who did the music for this? And of course, it was somebody who I was already a fan of. Technically speaking, we still are. But legally speaking, we're also divorced. This is a great conversation. Crack a joke or two? Two, please. Medium, well, or over easy, whatever you choose. But... Are we going to touch? Last time I saw you was the Golden Globes. Garfield's sitting beside me and goes, hey, if they call your name and you win, don't kiss your wife, just kiss me. And of course, Gosling, who absolutely did not deserve it. I'm such a... I'm actually a genuine nutty fan of his. But he, of course, won for as he should. And I love that we were just sitting there, we're just like, yeah, let's just do it anyway. Make out. Yeah, I'm glad that you were game for that. And I also retrospectively felt a little bit insensitive towards Ryan's moment. But I was grateful that it was in such a wide shot that nobody actually noticed until later. And it was actually kind of perfect. Yeah, and then you kind of went, oh, oh, oh. But I was able to apologize to Ryan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And say I'm so, so sorry. I actually just egged his house, which is a super childish to do, but I didn't feel so great about losing. I want to say one thing. Oh, come on, no more. I am a first-time kisser, long-time fan. No, you can do no wrong in our house. Me, my wife, we love you in our house. And your work and your dedication, you do something that only you can do. And that's a beautiful thing to watch. And saying ditto fully. Ditto, like in Ghost, you can't say I love you back. You just gotta be ditto. And then I'm gonna die. And then you're gonna, hey, I love you. Just pretend.