Ghosts Season 4 Interview: Rose McIver on That Genius Possession & Jay Seeing the Ghosts

You know the first order of business on Collider Ladies Night, now you get to do it yourself. Okay. All new questions. I'm gonna do a left-handed roll. Up here. Oh shoot, okay. This is a dice tower. Number eight. Number eight's a good one. It's rap gifts. What is the most memorable rap gift you've ever received or given? When I finished iZombie, I made this book, like a scrapbook of, it was like a poem of everybody just kind of telling the story of the five years. I went a little hardcore on it. I was very sad to leave that show. So it was very special in that it just like, I have that now as the scrapbook of all of the people who I worked with. And we had photos of all of the crew. And it was just like, yeah, it's a really nice little practical, tangible memory of just five of the best years of my life. It's a beautiful thing. I love things that are like, you know, I'm pretty sentimental like that. Like sentimental keepsakes. I was just whipping up a couple of holiday gifts for friends. And one of the things is like putting together a little like, like a Shutterfly photo book or something. I love those kinds of things. All right. Roll number two now. Okay. All right. Number five. Oh, this is the big one. Number five. Okay. Number five is high low. Can you give me one audition high that you've experienced, but then also not necessarily an audition low, but something that was a little more challenging that you learned from and applied to future auditions? Can I give you just lows? Because here's the thing. The audition highs are pretty boring stories for me. It's like they've been, oh, I felt like I really understood that character. I felt very present in it. Okay. No audition high would be when I went to, it's a funny high, but I went when I auditioned for the Lovely Bones in New Zealand, Peter Jackson was making the film. I knew it felt like such a long shot. I was like working in retail and doing a million other things. I remember I got the audition and just thought there was no chance. I had gone for a run and I just had my hair scraped back into a ponytail and it looked disgusting. I thought very sweaty. Anyway, I just went straight to the audition and I got the job. I think they really clearly wanted somebody who was a little bit more weathered seeming, maybe we could say. But that was a high. Grounded down to earth. A surprise. Unbelievable. Great win. I have two really immediate audition lows that came to mind. One is when I auditioned for, there was a project when I was about 19 that I was very excited for and I thought I did have a decent shot at. And I went and it was my first in-person audition in New York. Maybe I was 20. I don't know. Sometime around then. In-person audition in New York and I was on this press tour and it was all very exciting. And I put down the tape and I felt so good about it. It was a really good audition. Brought the emotion. I just knew I'd crushed it. And as I was about to leave, and I was already in the mix. They were wanting to see me. I was a contender for this. As I went to leave, they were like, oh, we forgot to hit record. And they hadn't, speaking of, they hadn't hit record. And it was like, I really had brought it. I really was like, I'm never going to be able to do that again. And I didn't. And I left and I was like, that was the only one where I felt like a genuine. I mean, you feel defeated in a lot of auditions, but that was one where the high before the low was pretty rough. And then the other was I auditioned for something. It was like early self-tape days in New Zealand. And I had to, the audition scene was like a lovemaking scene. It was this intimate lovemaking scene. I had nobody I could do a read with. So it was early on in the days of like trying to record the other person's lines on like, I think it was a tape recorder or just some sort of recording device. It wasn't, I don't think it was an iPhone. Anyway, I'm out in the garden. I've set up like this camera. I'm at my brother's house because that was where I was staying that week or something. So he's inside. I don't want anybody to see me. So I've done this outside. I'm just so humiliated. And I'm talking to myself doing this like lovemaking intimate audition. It was so, and I sent the tape. And I often think about that exists somewhere in the orbit. It was so bad. Like trying to seduce yourself. The other whole thing was- I love how that one exists, but the other one doesn't. Yeah, exactly. The good tape doesn't exist. I know. So there's a couple. Wasn't there anyone in that room who can convey how good you were on the spot? I mean, what does it mean? I don't know. I love how so many years later, I'm stressed about this for years. It was so upsetting. But you need them, you know. Yeah. Auditions is one of many things that wows me about your craft and profession, especially as someone who is super sensitive and gets nervous in those situations and does not like rejection. Oh, man. Well, yeah, no, it's definitely you get pretty comfortable with rejection, which- It's kind of helpful in some ways. I mean, it would be helpful in life in general to better process things. Or I guess that is what therapy is for. Maybe I need. Exactly. Don't we all? All right. Third and final roll in the tower. Six. This one is a ghost inspired one because in one of the most recent episodes, we unearth Isaac's diary and there's just a lot about sandwiches. You know what? I love sandwiches. So I want to know, what is your favorite sandwich? Favorite sandwich would be a... I'm pretty basic. Like a cheddar tomato, maybe a thin layer of mayonnaise, maybe some arugula. A lot of pepper, a lot of cracked black pepper. Load that up. Just keep it really... But like a basic sandwich. I love how you're like, I keep it simple and then you add all that stuff. I'm like, just give me melty cheese on bread and I'm good. Milky cheese? Melted cheese. I was like, what is... Grilled cheese. Oh, grilled cheese. I do love a grilled cheese too. No, that's good. No, but I just mean like a basic... It's not like... Okay. I'm not looking for some thick, complicated focaccia with, you know. No, just give me like really basic cheese sandwich. I am like the definition of basic. It's either like the plainest grilled cheese in the world or... I eat a lot of like just peanut butter sandwiches. Oh, I love a peanut butter sandwich. But no jelly. Just peanut butter. Yeah, no, we don't do... We call them peanut butter and jam sandwiches in New Zealand. Jelly, everybody's like, what? You mean that giant wobbly thing? Peanut butter sandwiches are big in our house too. Okay. And peanut butter toast, we call them peanut fingers. We chop them into thin little like strips. Oh, that's lovely. Like toast soldiers. I would enjoy that quite a bit. Toast soldiers? I feel like I need to like go to a place and have that be on the menu. Yeah, toast soldiers. We've talked about opening, my husband and I are like... Because we're pretty basic and we're like, what if we just opened a restaurant that just served all the basic stuff that basic people want? I would be your most frequent customer. Really? Okay, great. What's up, everyone? Welcome back for a new edition of Collider Ladies Night with a returning guest, Rose McIver. I am so happy that I got invited back. Thank you for having me. I have a lot of follow up questions from our last conversation. So one of the things you had brought up was when you did the piano, I think you said you were... Three. Three? Like teeny tiny. So when you did that, you said it wasn't acting. It was just like being as a kid. So it was making me wonder. Do you remember the very first thing you did when you realized it was acting? I do. Oh, there were two jobs. One is a filmmaker called Harry Sinclair in New Zealand, who I adore. And he made a movie that sounds like something it's not. It's called Topless Woman Talk About Their Lives. It's just a really funny, interesting indie film. It's not graphic. But anyway, when I was seven, I did like a couple of days on that, which was all I was ever allowed to do. It was like in school holidays. I could do a couple of days on something if it came up. And this was... He devises as he goes. Like he's a little like the sort of Mike Lee school of thought. And I remember, yeah, he had me play this little girl who discovers a man who's crashed on his motorcycle. And I'm looking for my goat. It really needs to be seen in context. But he was very smart. And he asked me what I thought my character's name would be. And it was not even a name that gets used in the script. It's just like he was helping me feel like I was a part of the creative process. And I remember being like, oh, she'd be Sally. And just that was the first time I felt like I was a contributor to a project, which felt really exciting, not just, you know, sitting and being. And then when I did Xena when I was nine and I got Lucy Lawless made me these tapes, not dissimilar to what Betsy Sedaro did for me. Oh my gosh, I hadn't thought about it. I hadn't thought about it. It's full circle. Trying to... I had actually completely forgotten that. But yeah, I play like little Xena. And that was the first job where I felt like I was, oh, OK, I'm taking on somebody else's persona or something. That's so cool. I also like the emphasis on being asked your character's name. I tend to sometimes over obsess about certain details. And one of the things about script writing that fascinates me most is how and why someone determines that that is the right name for the character that they want to bring to screen in a layered manner. Because names mean a lot. Yeah, yeah. And I think, I mean, Harry, the director, knew that that was something that gives you a sense of strong identification with the character. But he knew that ultimately I could have chosen Rainbow Sparkle. And it doesn't matter because nobody's calling me Rainbow Sparkle in the script. But it made me feel like, OK, great, I'm a part of this. I matter. I love that everybody at every age on the set should feel like that. The next thing I wanted to follow up on, we've lightly brought up Miranda Harcourt a couple of times, but we've never really spoken about her work. And I'm also just a big believer that, I don't know, more actors should talk about acting coaches because it's a really beautiful art that enhances your craft in a really special way. So I know you were working with her, I believe, when you were a teenager. What is something about how she teaches actors that aligned with how you like to learn and evolve your own craft? I honestly adore Miranda. She is like one of the hugest inspirations to me, huge role model in my life. I love her very deeply. I spoke to her just the other day about a project. And she, I think, I like how she's an amalgamation of all different sorts of theories. She's not like dogmatic about one school of thought. She's like a magpie and she picks and chooses things from all walks of life, not just from other acting schools. Like I remember when we were preparing for The Lovely Bones, she was making sure that I went to still life drawing classes and did all sorts, not still life, life drawing classes and went to like a school to see how the kids interacted with each other. And she's into taking it off the page and not being something that's just super heady intellectual processing words. And becomes more of a lived experience and something that you have body memory that you can draw from. She's very practical. She's incredibly widely read slash widely interested in the world. So all her ideas come from so many different cultures. And there's just like a great variety she picks from. And I feel like we all have so many different things that are going on in us. And it's like she just kind of ignites all of those different little pieces in you. It's not like about one truth and one way of it being. It's like just turning something into a lived experience. I could talk about Miranda all day. I have so many follow up questions. The way you kind of described her approach there is making me think of this. I do ask this quite often and I love thinking about it because there are so many different acting techniques out there. Over the course of your entire career, can you name an actor who has the most similar approach to the work as your own? More like the second you met them, you were immediately in sync. But then I also want the opposite. Someone who challenged you to adapt and maybe try something new and for the better. So interestingly, I did a film called Daffodils a few years ago. That's like a musical, a musical movie. It was very special and fun. And I had a really, I loved making it. But I worked with a guy called George Mason who also works with Miranda. And that was amazing because I love George Mason. He's so talented. I'm very excited to see where he pops up in coming years. But he and I work very similarly. And we knew each other. We'd met briefly in years past. He's a Kiwi. But when we started working together just to slip into the same, it's not even, it's like shorthand, but it's just into the same value system, kind of, in the creative value system and in what we wanted to achieve. And in the supportive but challenging ways that you can work in to push through things. It just was like, yeah, it was meeting somebody else who I felt very enmeshed with creatively. And we had a really, really positive experience working together. And then, you know, coming to Ghosts was challenging to begin with, because there's 10 of us that are regulars. And we all come from really different schools of thought and training. And, you know, some people are more theatrical. Some people are improv. Some people are musicians. And so I think part of what I think is making Season 4 so good on our show is now we're all much more dialed in. You know, we've always respected and admired the way other people handle things. But I think we know how to use each other as a toolkit a little bit more now. And we're more cohesive. And we understand the language that we each use. And it's different. You know, we all have really different approaches. But I think we found some sort of cohesion. But that was challenging to begin with, just to be like, what? We're moving so fast. And I can't do this the way that I normally do this. And you can't do this the way you normally do this. And, you know, there's so many different ways to act, like to pursue that craft. I always hesitate to call anything pertaining to art perfect. That ensemble is utter perfection. Oh, perfection. That's very big words. That's very kind. I feel like I'll start to pepper in how much I love Ghost. I mean, people have watched me talk about this show so much. They probably already know this, but it just amazes me that every single episode I watch, I'm like, how could it get funnier? How could it be quicker to, like, put a smile on my face? It truly is. Like, whenever I am in a bad mood, I know I can put on an episode of your show, and it will make me feel better. That's so nice to hear, because that's the thing that I feel like our show does do well, is just, like, it's joyful. There's fun to be had. It's not taking itself too seriously all the time. I feel like I watch things for different reasons. There are things I watch to challenge me and to educate me and to help me process things that have happened in my life or whatever. And then there's stuff I watch just to kind of like a balm to soothe my nervous system. And I hope, I feel like that's sort of where Ghost fits in, is like something that people watch with their families and can sit around together. I've heard Utkarsh talking lately, and I really like it about, you know, in people's busy lives, we're often sitting around a TV show together at the end of the day, might be one of the only times you really get as a family to kind of recap on life. It's like, it's nice when it's something comforting people can do together. And then maybe it stimulates a couple of conversations you've been meaning to have, or maybe it sort of just settles the nervous system of the family together. There's different ways it could work. But just being something that brings you together and doesn't ask you to transform yourself in an evening. It just really lets you rest and relax. There is no doubt in my mind that obviously it does it for me, but also many other people out there. Thank you. Filing away so many follow-up questions right now. The one with Miranda that I wanted to go back to. Oh, of all of the roles that you've done, which would you say either required the most coaching, the most workshopping, or maybe the most out-of-left-field technique for preparing for that role or finding that character? What I love about Murr is, so for example, I did this movie with a friend, Anna Hutchison, who's another Kiwi. And she and I were playing sisters. This is a film we did in Australia years ago. And I remember she had worked with Miranda too, I believe at that point, or she went on to. Anyway, I reached out to Murr and I was like, Anna's arriving on Sunday and we start shooting on Wednesday. And we're playing sisters and we didn't know each other. We knew of each other a lot. She was another Power Ranger. So we both had some common overlap there. So many of my New Zealand friends have been Power Rangers. Miranda and Power Rangers unite so many wonderful artists together. Exactly, the two big New Zealand glue adhesive products. So Anna and I were about to start working together and I called Miranda being like, what should I do? And she was like, please, whatever you do, don't sit opposite each other at a cafe with your scripts out and talk about the scenes. She was like, please, if you've got that little time, can you guys just like sit together on a couch and watch a movie and like hang out physically next to each other, try what feels like linking arms with this person. This is somebody who, that's the stuff you're going to see on screen is if you two look like you've never had any physical proximity when you potentially shared bunk beds your whole life. She was like, she'll look at it differently. There are times she's absolutely about script analysis and she's incredibly useful with that. But in this instance, she was like, you know, your material, the scenes were not reinventing the wheel in a dramatic fashion that there was something to unpack that I was panicking about. It was more going to be useful to just have a physical ease around that person. So she's kind of, it's case by case. There'll be times where that's like what is useful to hear. And then there are times where it's her drawing parallels between, you know, figures in history who've represented things that your character is going through and watching videos of them and how they've handled it or her telling a story about somebody who her daughter went to school with and how she handled a particular situation. It's always these very sort of complex, integrated in the rest of her life ideas that she has. They're not all about anything academic. And that suits me. The answer to this might be no, but did you talk to her about Sam before starting Ghosts? And if so, what tips did she give you for tapping into her? I think I would have spoken to her before the audition, probably. Once I was in Ghosts, when you're working in fast television, there's honestly like when we're getting scripts, you don't get scripts super far in advance at all. And the process doesn't allow for me to do work with an acting coach and juggle family life and everything else. So Sam was more, you know, there were definitely conversations before the pilot, I'm sure, about how to approach the audition script. But Sam is one that has been honestly four years of discovering on the job all the time and somebody who I'm discovering in relation to the ensemble. Like, I feel like we build each other's characters so much on that show. Brandon and Rebecca, this last year, we've been really leaning into how critical they are of Sam. And I think criticism can obviously come with a lot of love. Like it can be a wayward way of communicating love. So I can try to take it as that. But Isaac and Hetty in the show are very particular about how Samantha does things. And we think that's where a lot of the humor has started to come from for Sam, is in that relationship. And I wouldn't have had that without seeing them give me this desire to be liked and this desire to appeal to a person who is not necessarily giving you much reason to want to do so. So it's like, yeah, I think Sam's character has been defined by a lot of the people around her. Oh, without a doubt. I'm adding so many questions to my follow-up list right now. There's one thing that we missed last time that I did want to ask you about. You had told me that after Lovely Bones came out, I think you went back home for a year and then made your move to Hollywood. And I'm always curious to hear about that part of the process because the industry here is very different from anywhere else in the world. So when you got here, do you remember, I guess, the first really big learning curve you experienced in terms of processing the fact that this is a business and I have to do all of these things behind the scenes just to do my art? I mean, it was actually before I did the Lovely Bones, I did a press junket for a Disney movie. And while I was there, I think that was in LA when I was 18, maybe 18, and I had come across just for a week. And that was the most intense week of my life because I went from, you know, growing up in New Zealand to eight minute rotated interviews at the Beverly Hills Hotel or something. So they were kind of like the same back then. Yeah, but it was just so full on. And I was okay with that. I wasn't really coping. I was having a very big mental health crisis at that time in my life anyway. But on the back of that, I then went and met, I got set these meetings to meet a bunch of executives at different studios and things. And I just remember meeting this one executive and I hope this kind of thing just never happens anymore. We hope it doesn't. But I just remember like walking in at 18 and somebody literally going, oh great, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's totally marketable. And that was like the first line. I just, I'd never heard anything like that ever. And I had made it to 18, I'm lucky. And as a child actor to have made it to 18 and not ever have experienced that because I filmed all my stuff in New Zealand and it was so removed from the industry in many ways. But anyway, that was like a moment which put me off really for a long time. So I guess that was when I was 18, went home, kind of got on with, I'd finished high school then. I've like got part-time job. I think that was when I was working in retail and kind of had thrown, not thrown the idea away entirely, but been like, wow, I'd have no interest in moving to LA. A lot of people were like, move now, you've got interest. And it's like, no thanks, it doesn't appeal to me. So I went back and yeah, got a job at like the equivalent of Forever 21 or whatever and just lived my life and it was great. I was mentally recovering a lot. And then when I booked the Lovely Bones, it was another great, amazing, I mean, it was the most amazing opportunity of my life in terms of work. But it was packaged through like a, I was working with New Zealanders and it was for a specific job that I was coming across and I was able to come home afterwards and the whole thing just felt a little bit more staggered as an experience. It wasn't like being dropped in Hollywood. And so after that, I did that job. I had an amazing experience on that. And then I went back home, again, went back to university, just did some other stuff. And I've been cautious to throw my life at something that was so unpredictable. And I was very happy in New Zealand in lots of ways. And coming to the States was daunting. It represented leaving behind my whole life, my identity, my high school boyfriend, my world. So it was always like, I did not dive into the pool head first. I was just feeling it out. And kind of incrementally, then you find the version of this place that you love. And I have an amazing life here that I've built. I've got wonderful friends. I'm so grateful to this country for the opportunities it's provided me. But it was not like I was the small town girl ready to throw away her home. And that wasn't my experience. What was the first thing that happened that made you feel like you found your people here and you had a foundation to stand on that you were happy with here? I remember it was very funny. I was at a Starbucks. It might have probably been a year or so, a year or two back and forth from New Zealand a bit. And I remember going into the Starbucks and somebody said, where are you from? I was like, New Zealand. The guy working behind the counter was like, where are you from? I said, New Zealand. He's like, oh, no way. I know a Kiwi. And I was like, oh, who is it? And they laughed at me. They were like, oh, yeah, right. OK, you're going to know the Kiwi who I know. And I said, no, just please. It's smaller than you think. And there's not that many of us out here at the moment. And he was like, oh, it's this guy, Dave Dallator, blah, blah, blah. And I pointed at the mug and I was like, you've just written David on that coffee cup. That's Dave Dallator. I'm like, I'm going to his house. Like, we know each other. And he was like, what? And I just remember that feeling like, oh, I have a little network of people here. And it's starting to, I don't know, that was a standout moment for me that just made it feel more connected. And I registered that, yeah, I had a life here that was... And I've just been lucky. I built all sorts of great groups of friends, some through work, some through neighbours, some through just like other... I try really hard to find friends who aren't just in this industry, which can be tricky. Not because I don't have amazing friends in this job, but just that, again, is not what I was from. At home, my best friends were a paramedic and a sign language interpreter. And I like hearing everybody else's lives and different stories that aren't just set stories. So sort of that's still a work in progress, but it's something I value here a lot, is just kind of connecting and hearing about all the stuff that we then go on to portray on screen as if we know intimately. Yeah, I think it's an important thing from a professional standpoint, but also just to feel a bit more human. I want my daughter to have family, friends that do other jobs. Finding your people in this industry and in life in general is of the utmost importance. Yeah, yeah, I agree. There was one other follow-up question I had. And I find that every single time I talk to an artist from New Zealand, I feel the need to ask this because every single time I hear about the on-set environment there, I don't know, it just like sounds to me like it's got some sort of like extra special spark that a lot of other industries throughout the world can't quite capture. I think the best way I could probably describe it is there just seems to be the utmost respect for community and supporting one another there that I feel like other industries would be better off embracing. So what is something about making a production in New Zealand that you wish more industries out there would adopt? Well, to be fair, I mean, I've only shot two projects there in the last 10 years and things change all the time and it's very unprecedented times in this business. So I'm a little wary to speak to what the industry is like there at all now. But I know growing up there, also through the sort of rose-tinted lenses of being a teenager and everything's fun and exciting and everybody's wonderful. It's a place that celebrates good work ethic. It's a country that celebrates good work ethic and number eight wire is the big thing we always talk about, Kiwi ingenuity. It's like fix it with a bit of number eight wire. It's like an old farming kind of way of thinking about things. But it's not like you're allotted your job and you will work in your lane and finish that. It's like if you see somebody else who is, I remember a standout moment was Mark Ashton, who was our first AD. He was one of the producers on the Lovely Bones actually, but he's also a first AD. He was producing a film and I showed up. It was with Germaine Clement and there were a bunch of us. I showed up in this 1920s sequined dress on set and I remember him leaning over being like, Rose, could you give me a hand with the other end of that dolly track? And I picked up the dolly track and we're walking along. It wasn't heavy. It was a tiny piece. But it's just one of those things where it was funny to go from, I think I just shot something in the States and then to go back to that where you just don't get asked to do things like that here. And I like, within reason, I really admire that those people who work in grips and electrics departments work incredibly hard and do a lot more than I have the tenacity to do. But it's nice to just feel like you're part of a community and you're helping each other and you're integrated and you're all, you share a common goal. Someone said to me that working, when I was taking a directing workshop actually, they were talking about how pretty much anyone who works in a film industry, even an accountant in the production office, they've chosen to be an accountant in a film production office, not an accountant in anything stable and consistent and wonderful. It's likely they have a creative bent somewhere in them. They're aligned with something creative. And so it's like everybody who's involved in a production wants to be seen as that. And it's like you may be in a more technical realm or you may be in a performative realm or you may be in whatever, but we're all actually trying to tell stories. And the more you can kind of see that and be telling the same story as your whole crew, not just your cast, but your whole crew, the more room there is for everybody to be on the same page, for there to be a well-conceived outcome. So I guess, yeah, the collaborative experience in New Zealand, I mean, I took a hell of a journey to get to where you wanted to go there, but the collaborative experience of it all and the sort of helping each other out and not needing to, not looking at things so single-mindedly. It is a beautiful thing to emphasize. I appreciate you doing that. The directing workshop you just brought up, is that the WBTV one you did? Yes, it was. I'll just jump into Ghost from there, because I love that you're going to put that skill set to use. I know you've directed shorts, so you've already used that ability, but I'll jump to maybe, how did you come to the conclusion that the episode that you are directing this season was the right fit for you? It suited the skill set you already had and it would help you grow as a director. Yeah, so a lot of it is about trying to line things up with the schedule and production and our showrunners and what is written at the right time. And they did give me, they asked me a couple of questions about whether I would rather it was something that occurred in the house and was more of a flashback episode that takes us elsewhere, or is more one in a familiar setting. And for the purposes of just, I was like, this is my first episode of television. I think, you know, in our environment, I feel like I know this environment like the back of my hand. I feel very confident in the staging and the blocking and the characters that we'll be working with. It's a guarantee that I'm working with our ensemble as our actors. And so that seemed to make sense. But I've been, yeah, I've been really wanting to direct for a very long time and I had the most positive experience I could have asked for. It was so wonderful. It was just, it was so supported. We have an amazing crew in Montreal. It feels a little like New Zealand sometimes, the kind of collaborative nature of things and everybody helping each other out. I was very much carried by our amazing crew. But yeah, it's good. It's a lot of fun. Two more questions about directing that. First, just in terms of the entire Ghost production, because you've been working on the show for four seasons, you know this whole set and the vibe like the back of your hand, but now you're kind of viewing it operate from a different vantage point. Did you discover any new layers of that team or the production process that surprised you? Yeah, I loved pre-production, just being able to work with people like our production designer in more detail. Zoe is unbelievable. What she pulls out week after week at short notice is absolutely phenomenal. And her team and the detail that everybody goes into and the options that they provide and the copyright, checking on everything. And it's like the elaborate process that has to be worked through to get to the day when we film. And it gave me a great respect for the trust that all of those people have to have in us as actors when they've done all their work. And when the cameras roll, it's like, unless we're delivering and using things the right way, they have one tiny moment for all that work to be displayed or enjoyed. And it's an amazing exercise in letting go of control, I'm sure, for them. But yeah, the work that they do blew me away. I love that. Now I'll turn that same idea towards your character specifically, because you've been working on Sam for many years now. Now suddenly, I guess you are directing yourself playing the character. So is there anything about viewing her from the directing vantage point that unearths something new in her? You're such a good interviewer. You're so smart. You ask really good questions. It was not a heavily Sam-focused episode. I feel like I had come off the back of the Christmas episodes and some other episodes in the season that have unearthed a lot of stuff for Sam that has helped me unpack. So it wasn't so much that. It was much more of a logistical feat, just trying to figure out how not to slow the day down at all, but be able to visually see framing. And we worked with Sam. My stand-in's name is also Sam, which is perfect. Meant to be. She was wonderful. And she would stand in for me for rehearsals, for an on-camera rehearsal, so that I could kind of work through things. And then I would drop in. But in the scene directing, it was very interesting to try and stay present and reactive and also be making a mental checklist the whole time of, did I get that line? Did I get? No, I need that one again. How was the framing there? Whatever the questions may be that were popping up. And then you're trying to swallow them enough that you can still be present in the scene. It got easier the more I did it. As though one job on a set isn't hard enough. I'm just fascinated by anyone who can wear multiple hats. Oh man, it was a lot of support from a lot of other people. I cannot wait to see. I'm dying to jump to the Christmas episodes. But I do have a couple other questions about other episodes. They're more like little detail type things. So first I wanted to go to episode five, A Star Is Dead, because you are exceptional in that. I'll ask a meatier question first before I get to my one that you've probably been asked a bajillion times. When that episode comes your way, what is your reaction to it, both as an actor who will get to do, I guess, this different kind of performance treat but then also what that moment meant for Sam and how it would help her continue to grow as a person in the show? Well, I think that that was something that's happened this season, that is something that's happened this season more and more that I'm very grateful for, is we've had room to explore a little bit of Sam outside of just being a facilitator of other people's needs, which she is in the show and I think is her character fundamentally. But it's been cool to see her relationship with her dad a little and see why she is so desperate to belong and what she's overcoming. And I think, you know, being in a local community theatre production is she's so scared of it. She so needs it. I found it, it was really, it just felt like a breath of fresh air for her to be able to do something for herself character wise, which wasn't just to help the ghosts. And yes, Alberta encouraged her to do it, but ultimately it was one of the first things she's done for herself. I was thinking about that because we've spoken quite heavily about how she's a people pleaser and really much of her role in Woodstone is helping to make sure everything is okay for everybody else. It was so nice to see her have a deeply personal win. Yeah, yeah. And charming and something that, I mean, I love community theatre and I love that idea that you're plugged in with the people around you with a common goal. It's something that is bringing people a lot of joy outside of a job that, you know, I'm lucky I get to work in a job that I absolutely love. A lot of people don't. And this is the thing that makes them, tops up their creative cup. And so I have a very warm, soft place for community theatre. I was in a community theatre when I was at high school. My first play was at a local theatre and Loptal Theatre, Titorangi, shout out. But it was, yeah, it's something that I really believe in and I think is a signifier of a good, happy community where people can get together and want to spend extracurricular hours doing something like that and telling a story. So, yeah, it was really special for Sam. And then in terms of the actual dancing and singing and figuring that out, it was a little bit iZombie days. You know, it felt a little like going back to, oh, shoot, I've got to be able to do that in a week. What do I do? Obviously, singing with Danielle Pinnock was just a dream. She's incredible. She is incredible. She is so talented, so humble about her voice. She'll say like, oh, no, I'm surrounded by singers. I'm not a singer. She said, like, are you kidding? She's an incredible singer. And I think she's starting, I hope she's starting to know that more and more. And she's hearing it from a lot of people now. One of my favourite things about following the show is not only seeing her crush it more and more, on screen in the finished product, but just watching her presence and her voice in this industry grow, because it always feels like such a positive impact on everyone, everywhere. And that's a special pairing to have. Totally. She is just joyful and she celebrates wins. She celebrates everyone's wins. She is like a champion of, she's our on-set cheerleader. She's just giving out awards left, right and centre on set. She tells everybody they deserve every award. She's so loving like that. And it's, yeah, she's a really beautiful key ingredient in our big mad soup. What a wonderful quality for someone to have. So here's the question that pertains to that, that I'm sure you've been asked all the time. Full musical episode. When? We are dying for it. Oh my gosh. I mean, I just think people have to keep nagging our lovely showrunners. Only you're going to have a problem with that. We all have been, that's for sure. We love it. I mean, there's so many musical people in the cast. Feels like you're all made for it. Yeah. And, you know, like Roman's dancing is incredible. His singing is incredible. I think there's lots of moments throughout this last couple of seasons where some of these talents are poking through a little bit. So hopefully at some point they're like, oh, you know what? Let's just do it. Let's all do it. So we'll see. Eagerly awaiting that moment. Two more smaller questions before getting to the Christmas special stuff. First pertains to episode six, because I love animals. We had Escargot. Can we get more animals? I don't want to see anything bad happen to the animal on the property, but I do want them to have more pets. Totally. I mean, I am with you. We all kind of had the same response. It's a little the same. We've talked about children. It would be so fun, but you don't want the reality of what would make that need to happen. So it's a bit the same with pets where you're like, I mean, I love the idea that most animal souls are just too pure to ever have to have any purgatory, which is so true. But yeah, I would certainly like a few more visits from some furry friends. I've got a real soft spot for dogs. If you could have a ghost pet on the show, what kind of dog? Dog, yeah. Okay. I can understand this. I think Sam and Jay. Sam and Jay don't have enough on their plate. They need a dog. They should get a really complicated rescue dog. That's what would be good. I mean, that is always what everybody says. Like having a pet is a wonderful thing. It does add another layer to your life and it could complicate things. But I'm still rooting for that as well. The other question I had for you pertains to episode seven. Whose idea was it for the book towards the end of the episode to be the Lovely Bones? Oh, they've been sneaking in a few little Easter eggs lately. I am very, yeah, very happy. This is so sweet. There's little moments that have peeped up in the Christmas episode. I talk about hating zombies. That's so true. It's a few there. I was too busy laughing to clock that when it happened. Yeah, yeah. No, they kind of have mentioned to me that they were doing that. So it's been really fun. I enjoy little things like that. And, you know, I enjoy any Jurassic reference I can get. So the dinosaur bed episode and the lamp. I want that lamp. Yeah, I want the bed. Where do I get the lamp? I feel like if I had not a teeny tiny LA apartment, maybe I'd want the bed. But I could settle on the lamp. You'll take the lamp. All right. Christmas special. First, how did you first find out about the possession concept? And I guess what was the very first thing that crossed your mind when you realized you would have to channel Betsy? So I realized that last year I did a few interviews where I had been saying, people were like, what do you want upcoming in the season? I was like, I want to work with Betsy more. I love Betsy so much. I think she's, as I've already ranted to you, great. But I had mentioned that. And then the first I heard some rumor that there was another Christmas episode, there could be a possession element. And then the first real thing I heard was a text from one of the Joes showrunners saying, how's your Nancy impression? Or could you do a Nancy impression? And I was like, I have no idea. She's so iconic to us. I'd love to swing the bat. I mean, there's nobody I'd be more excited to try and imitate. And then thankfully, Betsy was just Betsy about it all and helped me every step of the way to try to do something in her ballpark, at least. I was watching. I'm like, how? There was a moment where I thought maybe she recorded the line. I'm dead serious, too, that she recorded the lines and you were just mouthing it. Wait for the blooper reel. It took a while to get some of the lines. There are moments where I don't even know who I sound like, but it's not Betsy. There would be like, I kept coming back to my gateway word, which was Stuart. If ever I got stuck and I started getting really off track and that happened, I would just start ranting Stuart, Stuart to myself over and over again. I can see why that would be helpful. I'm not sure if you break down something like this this way, but what would you say is step one to becoming Nancy, like the first thing that kind of put you on the path to getting there? But then also what was the last thing you did that made you say to yourself, like, got this, I can do it. She has such a great distinctive voice. I mean, she works in voiceover world all the time, understandably. So the voice was the one that I knew I was like, OK, that's that's where a good amount of time needs to be spent. And then I think there was the last thing was the open mouth gape that she does, which I'm wary to even attempt right now. But it's she does this like when she's focusing as Nancy, she does this like chin forward, like mouth open particular detail. And I kind of found that at some point and I was like that towards the end. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's so Nancy. That's so Nancy. So how did you all finish that? How was everybody not breaking every single second? We had a lot of fun. I mean, we also had Utkarsh playing three different versions of Jay. And that was that was so complicated. And he did a fantastic job at navigating the, you know, having somebody else read half your lines. And you're standing in front of a VFX screen here and trying to bring a very emotional arc to that story. He did an incredible job with all of that while we were all just like gaffawing in the background. And I'm sort of I was not I'm plunging the depths of my emotional well to play Nancy. Well, I mean, I well, also, I do think I do think so. Like we were talking about before, like the show, the show just brings joy to people. But I also do think it brings joy with like a layer of purpose and the idea of Sam crossing Sam, who is so like rigid and specific and people pleasing and concerned about what people think of her crossing over with the character who just like does not give a shit and marches to the beat of her own drum to the fullest extent. Totally. It was very liberating. There is something there that's quite meaty. Yeah. And and I think, you know, anything where if I really unpack it, it's like, well, Sam's compromised own family dynamics and wanting so badly to be part of something nuclear that felt sort of wholesome and Christmassy and whatever she there's like, I think. Yeah, I think her getting in her own way all the time and this liberation of just letting all of that go and knowing that she's worth being loved just for being being herself and being being not not being herself and being Nancy, but just being rather than having to do all of these things to please someone. I think, yeah, that's really that's touching. Stripping away all of the extras and knowing that she's valuable just just because she is. Before moving on to the J of it all, I did want to ask one more question about working with Nancy, because for these interviews, I always like I read every interview you did and a lot of times I look at the comments section and I did see a couple of questions about like the process of using the recordings that she gave you for this. Can you maybe kind of like break that down, like give us an example of a specific recording she gave you and how you incorporated that in the performance? Sure. So firstly, thank you for all of your prep that you do in these interviews. That is so, so helpful and meaningful and appreciated and above and beyond. And really, it's like makes it a joy to talk to you because you know, we talk to lots of people who are like, it makes me love the show. It makes me love my I can't ask a question unless I'm excited to ask it. And a lot of times being able to formulate a question that builds on something that I can stand on makes me more excited to hear the answer, if that makes sense. You're you're kind of a Samantha. You're like, I got I got some of those qualities. You like, there's no doubt. You do so much to get you're so like generous with your energy. Anyway, thank you. So I think one of the moments Betsy sent me a video of her in her apartment saying all of the lines, and she like showed a couple of different options of the way that she would play the line where I'm complimenting Champa. I'm just saying, I think it's like, you're a fine ass old lady. And she like did some physicality with it. And then she did some that wasn't and it was just like sitting back in it. She gave me options. And then I was able to like try the physicality on and if that worked for me and it felt like her, great. And if not, then I would drop it away. And she just gave me like, like for the Miranda of it all, just like this mag as a magpie to be able to just go in and steal the bits that were useful and ignore the pieces that weren't because there's parts of her that I wasn't able to channel at all. But you don't focus on those. You focus on like, great. Here are six things I can do that will, that I can hang my, my version of Nancy on. And we sort of, sort of got through it like that. So good. Like, again, just I, I have full faith in you with whatever you want to do as an actor, but that just blew my mind in a way that I wasn't quite prepared for. Thanks so much. I had a lot of fun. I truly mean it. I mean it. So I do have to touch on the, the J of it all. And the first question I had about his swapping situation is how it impacts the filming of an episode, because like on the one hand, someone might sit there and think like, like, oh, like J and P just swap. And now the actors have to like play it from the other perspective. But I have to imagine that because you have a rhythm, like doing that and processing like who J can see in that moment. And also the fact that he's physically there with him versus seeing like Sam sees. I just have to imagine that that kind of turns everything on its head in a pretty big way. So could you feel that in that moment? Yeah. I mean, Utkash has been having to operate in a two-hander for the last four years. And I'm in an ensemble. And that's like, he, he does a very good job and it's really hard to not acting is reacting and you're playing off the people around you. And so it was actually, it was very momentous for him to be able to interact with more than one actor in the scene. And I think he had a really good experience with that. And it also from a story point, just this is Sam's husband has been just believing her, supporting her, trying to build relationships with people. He can't see, but who have become in a weird way, his family, that to actually have this like tangible in-person intent, it is tangible. He can touch them. And I've said this, that J is able to physically interact with the ghosts, which is something that Sam has never been able to do. And I love that. I love that he has something that, yeah, that, you know, like, I hope he lords that over her in an argument down the line that he does know them better in some ways. It's a very momentous and pivotal episode for the series because it really means going forward. There's just that degree more understanding between them and a shared experience in lots of ways. Yeah. I think it's very special to see Utkarsh navigating those three versions of J and all the ghosts and Richie Keen, our director who directed it, just was doing God's work trying to get through the technicalities of filming that too. It was really complicated. I was so impressed by how that was written too. I remember I was so excited when I first heard that that was going to happen at San Diego Comic-Con, but like, you know, you could want something, but not fully wrap your head around like the potential ramifications and how it would change a show. I don't know, the idea of kind of like letting him dip in but be able to come out doesn't completely like rock the show in a way that you can't, or like retcon the show in a sense in a way that you can come back from. And also, again, like the fact that he had a different experience from Sam. Yeah, totally. Our showrunners, The Joys, gave us the biggest gift with those episodes. It was just like, it was, yeah, it was very tough, complicated stuff to navigate to keep it full of hot as well and funny. And they did such a brilliant job. Just so, so impressed. I continue to be so, so impressed. So we've hit the last question of Ladies Night. I have asked you this before, but I do think it is something that is well worth repeating. And we do always end the show with this particular question. So in this industry, we give each other, actually, as I say this, I do also want to emphasize that you have two Critics' Choice Association nominations in your ensemble. Oh, yeah. Which made me so happy to see. Me too. Anyway, in this industry, we give each other awards. That is super cool. We should keep doing that. I find that nobody says good job to themselves as much as they should. So I want to know something that you have accomplished thus far in Go! Season 4 that you know you will always be able to look back on and say, I am so proud of what I did there. I am really proud that I had my first daughter this year, my first child, and I was able to go back to work and find a new normal, which was very challenging the first few months. And I am really proud that I feel like I have still been able to show up for her and as much as I possibly can, and that she is able to see a mum who gets to pursue a job that is a dream. I am really proud of the work-life balance and trying really hard to make sure that I do not look back and feel like I have missed too much, but at the same time, that I am able to still be a part of this incredibly meaningful creative project that I owe so much to as well. So that balance has been something that I am really proud of navigating. Such a beautiful answer. I appreciate you sharing that. In saying that, I have to shout out my amazing husband, George, and our wonderful nanny, Davi, who I think nannies need to be spoken about. Melanie Linsky does this and she talks, she regularly thanks her nanny. Davi, without this amazing woman, who literally makes me want to choke up because it is so hard to leave your daughter. It is so hard. And to have somebody who I admire and I care about so much that is with her is very precious to me. A beautiful thing to share and it is so incredibly important. What a way out. You got your tears at the end of your interview period. Truly, it always makes me happy when someone emphasizes a lot of that because I say this all the time. I do not have any human children. I only have four-legged ones. But I watch my sister and what she does as a mother for her children, seeing how she treats the support team around her who deserves all the credit in the world. And then also watching the fact that she continues to have a career where, and it is a career where she is a social worker. She supports other people. Amazing. How do you do all of that and just the deepest admiration, respect and love for her? We never do anything in isolation. My husband and taking care of our dog and my baby. Just to be an actor on a show, it is not about me. It is not just about my work in the show. It is about the entire crew. It is about my family. It is about how he is at it. My husband has to navigate. He has got his own entire profession that he has complicated working out his schedule, trying to figure out how he can align art exhibitions to happen at the same time. The piece is in the puzzle. There are so many of them. And for everybody who contributes to me being able to do my job, I am really grateful. It is so special. And I know a lot of people out there are very grateful that you do your job because, again, Ghost brings so much light into this world that I deeply appreciate. I am going to say congratulations on everything you have accomplished, on what we have seen thus far of Ghost Season 4. I cannot wait to see the episode that you have directed and then also everything coming your way in the future. Come back to Ladies Night again. I need another three-timer on the show. You are the best. I so appreciate it. It is so nice to chat to you.