'Indefensible': Hawley Slams NCAA President For Forcing Transgender Policies On College Athletes

Thank you, Senator Schiff. Senator Hawley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Baker, if I could just start with you, I confess I didn't understand your answer to Senator Kennedy's question about the safety of women in the sports of the NCAA overseas. Did you say the federal law requires the NCAA to permit biological men to play in women's sports? No, I said there have been five cases in federal court in the past 18 months. Okay, because I thought you told him the reason the NCAA couldn't do, the reason the NCAA couldn't take a position on this, in fact, you have taken a position on it, you're affirmatively permitting biological men in women's sports, but you said to him it's because of federal law. There's no federal law that requires it, right? The relevant federal law is Title IX, is it not? You're familiar with Title IX. Guidance on this issue from Title IX or guidance with respect to discrimination law would be important. Federal judges have ruled on this. It's 20 U.S.C., Section 1681A. By the way, let's just dispense with that canard. No federal court has ordered the NCAA to include biological men in women's sports, right? There's not a single case that has ordered the NCAA to do so, correct? That's pretty much what they decided in the Senate. No, don't say pretty much. We're talking about the law here. Yes, I know. And you actively dissembled to Senator Kennedy just a second ago. It's not true that the NCAA has been ordered by any court, number one. It's not true that federal law requires you to include biological males. In fact, Title IX explicitly says no person in the United States shall on the basis of sex be denied the benefits of any educational program or activity receiving federal financial assistance. You are in court at this moment arguing that Title IX doesn't apply to the NCAA, which is astounding to me, given the amount of money, federal money, the NCAA gets. But let me just ask you this. A total of five teams, five women's volleyball teams, Wyoming, Southern Utah, Utah State, Nevada, and Boise State, all forfeited, had to forfeit, seven games in their conference play, NCAA conference play this past year, women's teams, because a biological male, under your rules, was playing on a rival's team. How is that not denying them the benefits of the sport? Why is this fair to women? And when that issue went to federal court, the judge sided with participation. No, the NCAA did not go to court. That is not true. No, when the federal judge made the decision with respect to the issue you just raised, your rules have not been tried in federal court. And your rules explicitly permit biological males in women's sports. And I am asking you, why is that fair to the women? All of these women on these teams had to forfeit games, and therefore a chance to compete in the championship because of your rules. And I want to know, why is that protective of women? That's my question. So far, the federal government on the court side has issued decisions several times in the last year. No, I'm not asking about the courts. I know what the courts have done. Not one of them has ordered the NCAA. Well, that's their interpretation of federal law. This is your policy, which you will not defend, because frankly, it's indefensible. Why are you, Mr. Baker, why are you allowing biological men to play in women's sports? Because we believe that's consistent with federal policy. So we're right back to your compelling. Your testimony is you believe you're compelled to do it by federal law. You would change it otherwise? We believe our policy. I said in my opening comments to Senator Kennedy, the clarity on this issue at the federal level would be very helpful. Oh, that is such a cop out. In other words, somebody else, please do it for us. Keep sending us the money. We'll go to court and argue that Title IX doesn't even apply to us. We do not take a dime in federal money. Is that why you're arguing Title IX doesn't apply to you? No. Yes. Part of it, yes. You honestly think you shouldn't be subject to Title IX? We don't believe we currently are. Federal court has affirmed that. Absolutely amazing. You have a pending lawsuit right now from female athletes who are suing you because you allow biological men not only in their sports, but also in their locker rooms. Why do you do that, by the way? Why do your guidelines allow biological men into women's locker rooms without the women's consent? Without the women's foreknowledge? Why do you do that? That's not what our guidelines say. They do say that. I've got them right here. Your guidelines say that transgender student-athletes should be able to use the locker room, shower, and toilet facilities in accordance with their gender identity. Here they are, right here. And that everybody else should have an opportunity to use other facilities if they wish to do so. Okay. So the burden's on the women. So if the women then want to move to a different facility, in other words, if they want to abandon their own locker room, you're saying that they should have to do that? So, in other words, it's their problem? No, we put a significant amount of emphasis on what the locals' plans are. We make sure that everybody— What does that mean, the locals' plans? Whoever it is that's hosting the event. You have guidelines that instruct them what the best practices are, and your guidelines say that biological men can go in and use the women's locker rooms if they want to. What the women want has nothing to do with it. They're not mentioned in here at all. Correct? Correct. It's right here. You just reaffirmed them in May of this year. I've got them. I'm reading them. I've got them off your website. I believe our guidelines give people optionality with respect to how they choose to use their facilities. What does that mean, optionality? What it says is, transgender student-athletes will be able to use the locker room, shower, and toilet in accordance with their gender identity. That means men will be able to use the women's locker rooms, and as Riley Gaines and others have testified before this committee, that means if a man, a biological man, wants to use their locker room, they just have to accept it. Or else the women have to go somewhere else. They've got to go find an alternative. Why is that fair? We told the local folks who've hosted our tournaments they need to create accommodations for the people who are playing. You know, so it's the feds on the one hand, it's the locals on the other hand. The only person who doesn't seem to bear any responsibility in this is you and the NCAA, who are the governing body. And your testimony here today is you're not even subject to Title IX. Mr. Baker, I can't tell you how disappointed this makes me, but not just disappointed, frankly, infuriated, for the student-athletes who are suffering because of your policies, and you won't even defend them. You won't even take responsibility. It's outrageous. It's totally outrageous.