How China Tries to Control Our Perception of Reality: Rep. Abe Hamadeh

they're at War for the American mind that's why you have Tick Tock out there that's why you have deep seek that's why you have the China Daily they're out there trying to control information and and your perception of reality AB hamade is a republican congressman from Arizona who is recently elected for his first term his first bill seeks to ban the widespread distribution of the China Daily in the House of Representatives it's propaganda by a foreign government that's trying influence the highest echelons of the United States government and it's unacceptable this is American thought leaders and I'm Yan Kell Congressman Abe Hab such a pleasure to have you on American thought leaders thank you for having me well first of all congratulations on being elected um I understand you're in the district where the tsmc the factories have been built in Arizona which is quite fitting for our discussion today right you're working on a bill which is a China Daily ban first out of the blocks why well my first day elected my first day in office here on Capitol Hill you know I walk in you know we see the typical newspapers right Washington Post Politico which have their own sets of issues but I look and I see the China Daily News and I you know was reading through some of it and you have to be pretty Discerning to actually discover that it was owned by the communist Chinese party and that they're registered for an agents so I had my team look into that it's just fascinating to see the level of influence that the Communist Chinese have in our government and I think it's unacceptable and we should ban it um at least for to be publicly distributed into the halls of Congress I think a lot of people would say yeah I see it around I mean it's in our building kind all over the place they just drop it off in front of people's doors not in front of our door but they just say yeah well it's around but who really reads that well people read it I mean that's why they're doing it and they're they know how to Target it they're going to the halls of Congress lobbyists and other organizations around Washington DC because that's how the Communist Chinese know to put their influence into United States highest levels of government and the people surrounding the government you know you get a collection rubber band collection of all these newspapers that are coming in and when you put that China Daily at the same level as the New York times Wall Street all of them uh it's very scary because it's not it's propaganda by a foreign government that's trying to influence the highest echelons uh of the United States government and it's unacceptable there was a time when it functioned as an insert in the New York Times in the Washington Post in the Wall Street Journal at at different times and uh these media were paid millions of dollars for doing this it was marked people would say that it was marked as being a a sponsored content or something like that sure well and that that was probably you know I can't stop what a private Corporation does if they want to do that but it goes to show you that the Chinese they understand communist Chinese understand that America is for sale sadly that they know how to influence and get themselves into the papers like New York Times Wall Street Journal all of them but right now you know and this isn't a bill to ban it totally you if people want to read this if they want to read this paper on their own they want to go online they are totally free if they to subscribe personally to it they are free to do it but to have it distributed in the halls of Congress um should not be allowed you know you have a background in Military Intelligence among other things um so you've kind of seen a bit more under the hood than perhaps a lot of people and I'm wondering how much your background has influenced you know your particular interest in this right out of the blocks yeah well you know I'm a son of immigrants my family came from places like Syria a family from Venezuela so not so nice countries so I kind of understand that freedom is at stake and it's always at stake and it's only one generation away from being totally extinguished and it's up to us to defend it and when you look at the Communist Chinese and their apparatus what they've built um and they try to act like they're benevolent right now and and I think that's so concerning when I was a military intelligence officer I served uh overseas in the US Army over in Saudi Arabia and I remember at the time Joe Biden had a really poor Rel relationship with the Saudis and I was sitting with these Saudi generals and they would tell me you know they would say we could always team up with the Chinese and that was scary because you know the US Saudi we built Saudi Arabia I mean aramco is literally the you know Arabian American Oil Company I mean that country exists because of us and to see that level that they're willing to possibly team up with China because the United States wasn't going to be uh friendly with them and to see how that China is coming in with their soft power not just Middle East but in places like Africa um it goes to show you how the extent that they're wanting to go to to influence the world and to change their perception of them which we know is a brutal brutal regime but you know my district as you mentioned before has all these Taiwanese companies moving in and they're moving in their big Factory spending $50 billion I mean that's just one company we have also other companies that are related to the the the microchip industry all coming into my district so I understand uh the importance of the military aspect of making sure that we're competing with China on the semiconductor the microchips uh my district also has the you know uh Luke Air Force Base and I serve on the armed services committee and the Veterans Affairs committee so I want to take care of our of those who defend our freedom here at home let's talk for a moment about the importance of getting this kind of extremely high level chip production into America which is a lot safer place than Taiwan right now right and if you look at who actually started this out was President Donald Trump he was the one who really led the Taiwanese to move operations into the United States Joe Biden tries to claim credit because they passed that you know bloated chips act that had you know a lot of I think president Trump wants to renegotiate so much of it but it was actually president Trump Wilbur Ross and so many others that were the ones who were convincing the Taiwanese companies to move their operations in the United States because you know China wants they have aspirations obviously to take back Taiwan and it put it put the United States in you know very dangerous spot to have all these semiconductors being controlled by the Chinese but right now tsmc is one of them it's obviously one of the biggest microchip Industries but they're also moving into Europe they're diversifying geographically quite a bit but we are glad to have them United States and in Arizona particularly but you know I always said this on the campaign Trail too you know Arizona is a great place for business and to have these comp move into it but how could we have them come in when we don't have a secure border it was just shocking to me because we understand the number I mean the tens of thousands of communist Chinese who are flooding our Southern border under Joe Biden was unacceptable and obviously as an intelligence officer I understand that my district would have been a target of intelligence gathering operations so that's something that I was you know really making sure to hit home on when I've met with so many you know representatives in Arizona from these companies that we have to the reason why we have to secure our border is precisely to protect uh from intelligence Gatherings from foreign adversaries just a bit more on the chips act you know there's it put M major export controls on some of these you know most premier value chips and so forth and it seems like from what we've been hearing about deep seek it seems like communist China has been able to evade these expert controls and use you know there's been allegations of something like 10,000 in inv chips and things like that for doing the things that the chips Act was trying to stop I would argue yeah I think that's exactly right but that goes to show you the extent that the Communist Chinese have an ability to influence an ability to skirt around even the best laws and the the best intention laws that we've got and uh it's because they understand that this is a race for AI this is a race for the chip and ship industry and for them to be able to do that I mean they were if you look at how they were acquiring those Nvidia I mean a lot of it was going into Singapore or other countries and and and evading it that way it's a sophisticated you have to give them credit I never as an intelligence officer you never underestimate your enemy you can't and if you do that's when it's game over so we always have to be constantly on guard with and that's exactly why the China Daily piece comes into it because if we allow that type of influence to happen in the halls of a congress the people's house what what does it say about us as as as a government can you imagine us putting our propaganda like Voice of America into the Communist Chinese they would never tolerate that and they don't tolerate it and yet here we are we we're tolerating that the Communist Chinese are able to influence and infiltrate in that aspect and we're back with freshman Congressman for Arizona Abe hamade you know something that isn't talked a lot about which you just made me remember is just there's a also a symbolic element here aha we're here right in the highest levels of you know where the US lawmakers sit where they make their decisions you know we're here and we're we have that influence and that's kind of a statement you know to frankly The World Isn't it absolutely they they understand that if they're able to get their message out and they're if they're able to influence not just the congressman because I understand I've got a staff and I've got a team if they're able to infiltrate and get some of the you know if you look at the halls of Congress how many the staffers are quite young you know they may not know when they're receiving to China Daily they may not know that this is actually paid for by a foreign government and so if they're able to influence these staffers who then go ahead and influence their their boss their Congressman that's a big problem I've met with Wagers and I've seen the plight that they've had to go through again these staffers who continue to read this and if if it could influence a vote for instance or it could influence sanctions on on the Communist Chinese it moves far past just information Warfare I mean this is there's real life consequences happening and as an intelligence officer somebody who served in the military you have to understand that you know propaganda information this is the new reality of warfare we're seeing that on the battlefields in Ukraine and Israel everywhere now it is really um a battle of getting that message out and what what the truth is and that's why it's so important to have honest fair news organizations out there you know I look at this situation and what the Communist Chinese have been doing um their their their apparatus is sophisticated and you have to give them credit for it and if we don't combat against this what what is next for them you know this is that's what scares me they understand the level and sphere of influence that they're doing and I serve on the Veterans Affairs committee and something that I discovered is that a lot of these veteran service organizations which are amazing M amazing organizations that want to help the veterans and often times what the commun Chinese do is they actually go in and give a donation to the veteran service organizations under Tik Tok for instance that's something that we had to deal with is that Tik Tok was um giving money to Veterans organizations and when those veterans go and you know want to defend Tik Tok or and they don't even know that they're being used in that way and that is what's that is what's sad to see and that's how you have to be constantly on guard about it I mean that that that's fascinating because you know of course you the most of these veterans organizations are pretty cash stra frankly and you can hey look this is why why why shouldn't I take that money right I mean what I mean is that it's it it helps them right but then it engenders that Goodwill later on and that's what's I guess what's being bought oh it's so sad it's so sad that veterans organizations have to even you know raise money from a foreign government or what they don't even know is a foreign government um in order to operate we should be taking care of our veterans we should make sure that their veterans organizations are self-sufficient and um when they're able to see where they could influence with soft power the Communist Chinese and some of these other countries they capitalize on that they capitalize on knowing that you know Americans love our veterans and to have an ability to influence a veterans organizations to take a position stance on a bill or a resolution um that's powerful and that's why they do it and um so many of these groups don't realize that they're being used in that way and that's why it's important for us to understand that hey you know you are part of an intelligence operation and you may not know it and this is the reason why so making sure we get that out there is important I leave through a couple of additions of the China Daily as preparing for this for this discussion and you know you make a really good point there's no suggestion in there of any sort that there anything other than kind of a harmonious life within China but it's kind of what's not in there is perhaps even more important than what's in there it's beyond just the the free press this isn't the free press this is a foreign government operated newspaper designed to it's in English you know there's an English for a reason why because they want to influence uh the United States specifically um the people who make the key decisions in our government it is designed there to present a viewpoint that everything is going well in in China just perusing through the newspaper they're talking about the AI and how China is going to be leading the AI Revolution with deep seek and all that I mean that is their you know scop that is their propaganda piece and that's why we have to be on guard against it you said something earlier you said America's for sale that could be viewed as quite a contentious statement is America really for sale what what do you mean by that well it's obvious I mean if you look at F lands are for sale that we sell to the Communist Chinese near near air bases near military bases and this is something that other countries would never tolerate and it's something that we have to put our patriotic Duty ahead of the dollar that's something that our Corporation should be doing it's something that you know every individual should be doing it's it's key and I I respect other countries and in that regard that they they would never sacrifice their honor for the dollar and and sadly too often when you talk about these Global corporations you know and I hate that word Global corporations because these corporations they started off in America you know we they were built off American workers they were built because of the laws we have here because of capitalism the free enterprise system and yet then they go and capitulate to a country like the Communist Chinese and um you know it it the Chinese are very smart you know they've shifted away from Marxist leninism now it's Market leninism right so it's it's so fascinating to see how they've been operating and maneuver into the global Marketplace and when they take advantage of the United States laws in order to influence it's it's a big problem but it's something that we as a culture need to be on guard against let's dig into the nuts and bolts of the bill and you mentioned far which is the foreign registration act uh also in here just explain to me how the bill works so this one specifically targets the Communist Chinese uh it it's prevents a foreign agent so somebody who's registered as a foreign agent that's tied with the Communist Chinese prevents them from Distributing and it prevents these third party contractors because that's ultimately who's the one passing out these newspapers it prevents them from Distributing the the papers in in in the House of Representatives you mentioned Tik Tok we talked about deep seek briefly um how do you view these apps on you know the phones of Americans and computers of Americans well I understand that many Americans like Tik Tok you know I've used Tik Tok before President Trump seems to like Tik Tok it seems to get the truth out in some so many ways um however it is become it becomes concerning when you understand that the Tik Tok platform and so many of these others um have an algorithm and ability to influence the end user um in a way that could be quite destructive deep seek is something that you know as we mentioned earlier the ability for it to wipe about a trillion dollars half a trillion dollar from a Marketplace based off of conjecture we don't know what what the reality is of deep seek is whether it how much it really cost them to produce um what the chips that they're actually using for it and for them to be able to wipe out that market share of the unit I mean half a trillion that that's bigger than the GDP of most countries and that's the scary aspect of it that when I talked to you about this earlier it is information Warfare this is propaganda this is psychological Warfare and we have to be and that's where the when we talked about the the victims that is the victim when when you wipe out you know a lot of Americans um bank accounts and and their Investments because of that ability and who knows if then at that point again since the marketplace is open who knows if you had these foreign you know countries come in and and buy buy the dip so they say in order to to uh influence the market in that aspect so it it's so fascinating to watch and it's something that you know we will be watching in the future you know I had a interview recently with Nicholas tryan the former Chief software officer of the Air Force and space force um who has an AI company himself right now and he's run a ton of tests he told me on you runs tests on all the models including deep seek which he you know sort of air gapped put into its own own place because of course he wasn't going to go on the the you know the actual deep seek platform form um and he found it wasn't a particularly great model he believes they just tested it against the benchmarks the benchmarks looked really good but it's I mean it's fine he says it's a fine model but the American models are stronger so to your point right absolutely this was an information off I mean it's almost like the case inpoint example of how effective propaganda can be is there a better example off the top of my head I mean half a trillion dollars that hurt s right absolutely and again I mean it was you know imagine the China Daily pushing that out there and the media pushing out out there that deep seek suddenly is taken over AI that is the information that we have to be on guard against and you know we were talking about this earlier to see the level of influence the Communist Chinese has it's not just in Washington DC it is in the Heartland I mean the bioweapons lab that they had ability to produce a another type of disease out in California and you saw that just recently the ports in La that have communist Chinese infiltration and as well as the the secret police stations that are occurring in our cities as well as the confucious institutes and our education systems that is the level of information Warfare that we are fighting and that so many Americans want to act like is not happening but it is happening and it's not because they're just trying to export you know the cultural traditions of China which of course has a very rich tradition that has been utterly destroyed by the ideology of Communism to your point it's something to the tune of you know years ago it was we knew it was approximately 10 billion dollar that was being spent on these influence operations is uni you know unit united front operations uh influencing local communities both Chinese and otherwise through Chinese agents of influence in these I mean the the scale of it today we think it's something more like 20 billion perhaps even more than that and that's not even talking about you know these operations like deep seek or Tick Tock and and everything else I mean the scale of it is almost unfathomable it's not just information Warfare there's a war going on here in the United States with fanol you know my district Arizona I'm I'm a border state I see the fentanyl coming in from the chemical compound being shipped in from the Communist Chinese into the hands of the the drug cartels and then they go in and ship this all across the United States and get the United American citizens drugged up and addicted and that's why president Trump you see what he's been doing so successfully with these tariff threats and with going after you know our border our border countries like Canada and Mexico but also the Communist Chinese it's so critical I want the American people to understand that you know we may not have asked for this but for this type of War but it's you know there are war with us and they're at War for the American mind that's why you have Tick Tock out there that's why you have deep seek that's why you have the China Daily they're out there trying to control information and and your perception of reality and we have to understand that talk to talk to people who live through the horrors of the Communist and maoist Revolution that's how we keep this this reality and what's real alive and for us to understand to fight back that's why I'm a member of Congress I'm the son of immigrants from Syria from my family from Venezuela so I understand that if freedom is extinguished here at home there is no place to go so we can never allow ourselves to bend the knee to the Marxist communist well Congressman Abe hamade such a pleasure to have had you on thank you thank you all for joining Congressman Abe hamade and me on this episode of American thought leaders I'm your host Yan kellic [Music]