How Ballot Chasing Won Pennsylvania for Trump | Cliff Maloney

[Music] Cliff Maloney such a pleasure to have you back on American thought leaders it's good to be here Yan well you're back after about five years I think and you taught me all about something which I think now is called ballot chasing and that might sound a little bit strange or unusual what is ballot chasing yeah ballot chasing is after covid they changed a lot of the rules in these states to say Hey listen it's not just one day election day you have to show up but in States like Pennsylvania um there's 50 days of voting right and so you get your mail and ballot 50 days out they're sitting on the table and what happens is the Democrats for years have understood this I tried telling you this back in 2019 that the Republicans have what we call volunteers which are great efforts the Grassroots need to participate but the Democrats have both volunteer effort and paid Community organizers right the door knockers that chase the ballots and it's it's such a a difference because you have that consistency and so my question is always if they're doing it why aren't we and so last time we talked I guess was 2019 I was walking you through that listen I think there's some power to the door knocking and then covid really put us on the map because all the rules were changed and people realize wait a second we can't spend all of our money on television ads we have to compete there but we have to put resources into these paid ground games the way the left does the the paid ground games so so so what is the chasing exactly like what what's happening give me the so three different types of door knocking okay whenever you're doing these these what we'll call Ground games or field programs so you're hiring individuals they're going door too in a primary it's tough right because I got to go and say hey this Republican good this Republican bad right you really have to convince them because it's in the weeds the second type of door knocking would be general election door knocking where it's tough once again because you got to talk to swing voters right maybe you're trying to convince them on a certain issue so it's a moderate Democrat but maybe they're good on guns the third which is what we're doing which is ballot chasing it's the easiest right you're going to the door of somebody who is a trump supporter and you're saying listen Bob I know you got a ballot sitting there on the dining room table I need you to send it in you're not persuading them you're not trying to convince on certain issues you are targeting Trump supporters that are unlikely to vote and so you've got to get them to become more likely to vote by going to their door reminding them and getting them to send that ballot back so and you're saying this is something that is kind of standard procedure in some political circles but a bit of a novelty yeah so the Democrats have done this for 10 15 20 years Republicans it took covid kicking Us in the rear end to realize we need to do this and there's a there's a couple phases to this let me break it down phase one I'm going to use Pennsylvania specifically because we did this phas program phase one was uh September 1 through October 1 and what you're doing during that phase is I'm going to voters that haven't voted uh in more than two of the last four elections so zero one or two of the last four elections they voted not three or four and I'm going to them with a request form and it says Yan if you just signed this we'll take the form will'll deliver it and then you'll get a ballot sent to your house so that's the whole first month and that universe is just Trump supporters that we want to make Trump voters the second phase October 1 through election day your entire University you're targeting changes and you're talking to every Republican that has a mail in ballot sitting at their door so you're no longer trying to get people to request it the reason that's so important when we looked at the numbers in 2020 when we didn't chase any ballots Trump lost Pennsylvania by 80,000 votes 120,000 Republicans had a ballot that was sitting on their table nobody ever talk to them and they didn't send it back and they didn't vote so a few people have told me that this chasing that you did in Pennsylvania could have actually been the difference why don't you break down the numbers for me for what actually happened yeah so we launched this program about a year ago now and we pretty much said look we think if we knock 500,000 doors we can increase Trump's share of the mailin vote so if you look at just mailin votes in Pennsylvania in 2020 comparing Trump to Biden Trump had roughly 20% so we're down 60 points going into election day roughly 20 to 80 we said if we knock 500,000 doors we think we can take that 20% to 33% against Harris well 33% we said we would win handedly 30% was probably a win but going from 20% to 33 you know was going to be difficult so we end that's the chase yes yeah we hired 1220 individuals full-time September 1 through election day they knock six days a week no work on Sunday they knock 10 to 7 every day um they get an hour for lunch for the lawyers listening um but it's a grind right it is not an easy job and so we knocked 510,000 doors was our final number and through the 10 airbnbs that we we house them in uh Trump ended up getting 34.5% of the mail in against terrorist so to us it was a smashing success by the way a lot of pundits uh political operatives they said Cliff stop talking about the 33% they said that's a measurable goal your career could be over if you don't hit it just talk about the action just talk about knocking the 500,000 doors and I said you know they said well what happens if you don't hit 33% I said well what happens if we do and I'm really really proud that my team was on Hest we stuck with it um and then when you hit your goal it feels great well it it strikes me that that uh key kpi which is a favorite acronym for these metrics right one that actually demonstrates Effectiveness you think one would want to not in politics y that is very rare in the political world really really yeah so so so what what what do people I guess you would say get away with uh well I think a lot of times you know people talk about action but I also I mean literally when we first met in 2019 you know I was trying to figure out why are the Consultants not competing in this space when the left is just crushing it and it's pretty simple I mean this might seem a little derogatory towards a political consultant class but you don't I don't make more money based on how many doors I knock right the TV ad buyers they're all getting their cut of 10 15 20% and so it is an incentive to stick with some of these big media buys and like I said you have to do TV but it took covid and the 2020 loss 2022 was not the year people wanted it to be for us to realize these rules are a problem and with these new rules we have to knock more doors we have to do what the left does and I think the donor class and the voters the activists enough people just said the Democrats don't put up with this they're very clear no we have to do this strategy and they go out and execute but the best part is it is not a fun job okay for me to get 120 people to knock doors full-time for two and a half months I had to go out and solicit and recruit about 1100 applications we had to interview roughly 5 to 600 people and this is the part I'm never supposed to say um we actually signed contracts with 180 people you might say Cliff you you said you only had 120 well we do enough of these door programs we've knocked 8 million doors uh over the last eight years I mean we've really had some fun doing it 180 Stars well 20 of them didn't show up Yan okay they never made it there another 20 lasted 24 hours right they get there it's not for them they're homesick whatever and then another 20 kind of dwindle throughout um it's a tough job and yeah you have a lot of great conversations but you also have people saying get off my lawn you know I don't want to talk to anybody so I always commend the folks that stick it out and how awesome would it be to be a 20-year-old realize you showed up helped us for two and a half months lived in a community in an Airbnb with people that are there because you want to save the country and then on Election night Pennsylvania delivers the White House it was a really proud moment but it was really cool to see the look in their eyes knowing that they pulled it off and so but clearly there must be some uh you know incentive for for making it all the way to the end right yeah I mean one they're paid right so these are not volunteers uh you know two we put them up in housing we give them gas cards we offer bonuses based on production and the coolest thing uh I'll give uh Elon Musk team a lot of credit for this cuz they were the first people to push me on this is they said well do you pay based on the incentive of getting a ballot back because a lot of times we're paying based on door production and uh you know so we did Implement that and it's cool because you know hey you were assigned to these 120 doors this day and every day we're checking to see if the ballot comes back and then offering bonuses uh for when they're able to succeed so when they're coming back they're getting paid more but usually once you get past the halfway point nobody leaves because you're part of that family you don't want to give up on everybody you know you're there you've had enough good doors and interactions with voters that you want to be part of this and everybody wants to be on Election night right my the worst of the people who show up you know at 6 o'clock on Election night and they want to knock two doors and then hang out at the party it's like no we don't allow that get out of here we've been here for two months busting our hum going across the Commonwealth so it's an exciting thing for them just to be a part of that now and I understand there's a number of the other swing States this was also implemented I believe in Nevada Ned Ryan was telling me about that in Nevada I don't know how familiar you are yeah so I I would say that this was the first cycle that we did what the left does meaning certain groups were designated legally um because you can't always coordinate on certain things but certain C4s certain packs would come in Charlie Kirk rocked uh Wisconsin and Arizona when it came to the chase Scott presler with early vote action he did all the registration every gun show every Farm Show I mean he's there right in his team they're there uh other groups America First Works uh Ned's group there are tons of these groups that were assigned to different states we didn't do this in 2020 right and look my I get I get hit sometimes uh New York Times did a big hit piece that said uh Trump's Pennsylvania mail in ballot guy says quote I hate mail in ballots I do right I'm not the spokesman to say that these rules are great and that this is something that you know we should be proud of but I'm GNA play by the rules to win and so in 2020 I think this trajectory is what most Republicans felt in 2020 we said no we're going to vote on Election Day it's the most secure way to vote okay we get shellacked in mail voting 2021 we said well maybe the courts will fix it they didn't 2022 we said oh maybe the legislature uh they'll fix it they didn't 2023 we got beat so bad Pennsylvania I remember the morning after the election these are offe elections but it was brutal School Board we just said what are we going to do like we have to put some sort of plan together here um and I think that trajectory showed in 2024 the RNC Trump all these groups said okay we need to play in these early vote and Chase the vote States and we got to match the Democrats at what they do you want to win you want to beat fire use fire that it's very simple okay well um clearly clearly you met your metric and uh and some people got some great bonuses and hopefully you did too and uh and it sounds like you're very happy with the outcome yeah I mean the big test now is 2025 you know what does it look like right people are asking me what's next what are you guys doing I have people in Virginia calling me I have the governor's candidates in New Jersey and look we're going to look to help anywhere we can but I'm doubling down on Pennsylvania if we make PA a red wall Democrats cannot win a national election and so when I say that to people they say yeah but it's an off here what are you going to do well let's look at what my political opponents are doing okay Governor Josh Shapiro who's going to run for president in 28 he's up in Pennsylvania for re-election in 2026 well what's he doing he has a team of a 100 full-time staff in the field as of last month because they understand on the left this is a 365 days a year type of thing you have to build build culture you have to build Behavior it's kind of weird to say it about voters but it's the truth getting them comfortable with the practice because in Pennsylvania have to request your ballot so what we're doing is we're relaunching uh the Pennsylvania Chase is going to knock another 500,000 doors in 20125 same exact model 120 full-time people between 8 to 12 airbnbs and you might say well what are you focusing on Judge of Elections the judge of Elections races in Pennsylvania we're going to try try to win a thousand of them these are local Races they make the decisions about secure elections on Election Day whoever wins for each Precinct this year will control the 2025 or excuse me 2026 2027 2028 and 2029 elections the big ones being 26 and 28 having that as kind of our method to get people excited about 2025 it's going to be tough right raising the money to flip the White House getting people excited to chase BTS to flip and win the White House little bit easier but that's my test for this year is to double down and really try to get people to see we need this to be permanent infrastructure if we want to make PA the red wall yeah well and you're you're you're getting kind of people used to it and at the local level but you know just as we finish up here people tell me that local is really where it's at that's where you really facilitate change like everyone I talk to ultimately says this right your take the dog catcher takes more of your Liberty away than the folks here in Washington it's the truth I mean that's right that's the libertarian in you right right so I I tell people this all the time when we got tapped to do this PHH program our group is Citizens Alliance we operate in four states Pennsylvania is my home state so it was you know it was awesome to be able to Target PA we do state races I love to do state and local and we door knock right that's always been our method that's always been my focus this was the first time I really could justify doing a big Federal race because you have to spend massive amounts of money and resources the local is where it's at and I don't mean that as a positive thing I mean that is if you're worried about your freedoms being infringed Upon A lot of times it's not coming from DC you know not that their Mother Teresa up here in DC but I do feel as if uh it's tough to get people interested locally they turn on the news and what are people what are we talking about we're talking about the presidential race right they're looking at the Senate races Congressional focusing in on city council Schoolboard all of those local races um that is where you not only have the most impact but those are the people that rise up to run for Congress and so I always tell people build a bench if you're looking to get involved locally don't spend time building a party don't spend time trying to get involved in a US Senate race find local candidates that represent your ideals build them up that'll build the party that'll help up the ticket um but it's it's crazy the amount of people that jump in and say I'm going to run for Congress say okay do you have $5 million and do you have a year of your life you can take off without setting your family and businesses back right focus on the race where you can raise 10 20 $25,000 be a viable candidate and we always care about two things you're principal and you're viable much easier to be viable running for local office than jumping in and running for US Senate mhm well Cliff Maloney it's such a pleasure to had you on again yeah appreciate you guys as always love what you do [Music]