ExclusiveFrom Fired Mascot to Winningest Coach in U.S. Basketball History: Tara VanDerveer’s Story

Well, I'd always watched a lot of basketball and I'd always watched a lot of coaches. I actually, I've been fired from one job and that was, I was the mascot for the boys team. And I had to wear a bear head, but I took the head off and I'm turning around, instead of leading the cheers, I'm watching the game, so I got fired from that job. They thought I was crazy. What does it take to become the winningest coach in college basketball history, to turn a struggling team into a dynasty, or to lead our national team, to be so dominant they never lost, even once. Today's Bay Area innovator is Tara Vanderveer, a true legend. In her 38 years at Stanford, she built a powerhouse, won three NCAA titles, and rewrote the record books with second most wins in NCAA history, men or women. In 1996, she led Team USA to Olympic gold with a flawless 60-0 record. It's not really so much winning as much as you want your team to play the best they can. We're always trying to get better. We're always trying to be the best that we could be, and that was the challenge. How does she do it? What's her secret? And what can all of us, whether in sports, business, or just life, learn from her playbook? And we did a practice medal ceremony nine months ahead of the real medal ceremony. And I said to the team, we had a big video, and it showed what the Olympics were going to be like. I said, in nine months, someone is going to win the gold medal, and if you want it to be us, then here's what we need to do. And we did a gold medal ceremony where I put the gold medals over their heads, and they put their arms up in the air, and they're really excited about it. We took a picture of the gold medal and put it on the front of our notebooks. Stick around, because today, we're breaking it all down with the one and only Tara Vanderveer. This is Be'er Innovators, and I'm your host, Steve Esposito. Tara, welcome to our program. Thank you, Steve. Well, glad to have you here. One of the most successful coaches in the U.S. And you know, I want to start with Stanford, which pretty much defined your experience, and you defined Stanford's history in many ways, sports history. Tell us, how did you get started at Stanford? What brought you there? Well, I always was attracted to the academic excellence of Stanford, and the combination of great academics and great athletics. And at the time that I was interviewed, the team was not very good. In fact, it was the year before they'd won only five games. And so I knew that it would take a lot of work and a lot of, you know, great players. And so I took the job with the idea that it was such a wonderful opportunity of combining athletics and academics, and it has worked out that way. Now, you were at Ohio State prior to Stanford. And at that time, Ohio State was a better team. Did you feel like a step down coming to Stanford? I knew what I was getting into, because when I was at Ohio State, we played Stanford, and we beat them by 30 very easily, honestly. So I knew that, but I could see the potential in Stanford. First of all, the players on the team were, even though they were maybe not as good of players as we needed, they were really good people, and they loved Stanford. And so I just thought that, you know, given a couple years, we could get the caliber of player that we needed, and they would be the caliber of student that Stanford demanded, and we could win. And that is what happened. How did you get into coaching to begin with? I fell into coaching backwards. I went to Indiana University, and I majored in sociology. And I planned to go to law school, but I wanted to take a year off. So I went down to Florida, I got a job that I didn't really like, and then I decided I came home at Christmas. I pretty much ran out of money. And they had just passed Title IX, which Title IX is a federal law that opened up a lot of opportunities for girls and women. It wasn't passed for sports, but it has helped athletics and girls' sports immensely, giving them opportunities to play. So when I was growing up, there were no teams to play on. I didn't play on a high school team or, you know, a junior high team. There weren't basketball camps, there weren't college scholarships. There's just not enough girls to make up the team? No, because there was no support. There was no support. They didn't have a coach. They didn't split up the gym and give, you know, there was no support for it. Because until there was a federal law, and then once Title IX passed, that's when there were opportunities for girls. And so my sister is five years younger than me, and she decided to play basketball. Now, she didn't really practice very much. She wasn't very good, but she wanted to play because her friends were playing. And so my dad said, you will go down and help coach your sister's team. So that's how I started. What would you say is your, some of the main skills you developed at that time to turn into the coach that you ended up being? Well, I'd always watched a lot of basketball, and I'd always watched a lot of coaches. So when I was growing up, again, I played basketball with the boys, and it would get to a point sometimes where I was the only girl, and the boys didn't want me to play. You know, they're like, I was better than them, but they didn't want me to play. So I got the best basketball, and if they wanted to use my ball, I got to play. And I played in the games, but then they went on to have teams. And right around, you know, in the 10th grade, you know, the boys had growth spurts, and all of a sudden they got bigger and stronger. And I could still compete with them in high school, but not like the big, big guys, you know. But it was just really frustrating not to have a team to play on, not to be able to, you know, practice. So I would watch the boys practice. And I actually, I've been fired from one job, and that was, I was the mascot for the boys team. And I had to wear a bear head. But I took the head off, and I'm turning around, instead of leading the cheers, I'm watching the game. So I got fired from that job. But, you know, I really, I loved watching basketball. I watched the boys practice. I watched, I took a coach, Coach Bobby Knight at Indiana, where I went to college, gave a coaching class. And I took the class, and he said anyone that took the class could come to watch practice. And I went every day. So I really understood the game of basketball. I understood how to coach the game of basketball. I didn't ever expect to do it, because there were no jobs for women. But when Title IX came about, then that opened the door for me to be a coach. But there's more to coaching than understanding the game, right? It's the human relationships and getting the players to do their best that they can be. How would you say you accomplished that so well in your career? Well, I, you know, I did watch great coaches coach. I watched practices and watched how they related to their players, what they said. You know, again, I, then I went to graduate school, and there was a master's degree in athletic administration, which then is talking about what it means to be a coach. And both of my parents were teachers, and I really look at coaching as teaching. You just have 40 public exams, you know. And the one time that I did start my coaching with my sister's team, they had lost the night before I started, 99 to 11. So they were not a very good team. But I would come home from the game, and my parents would say, you know, why didn't you play Marie more? Marie was my sister. And I was like, well, she can't dribble, she doesn't shoot well, you know. And so she did play a little bit, but I love my sister Marie. And so I realized right from the very beginning that parents are unrealistic, and that everyone on the team is someone's sister. And to really, you know, work at being a really good big sister. So in some ways, a coach is a teacher and a big sister. Now, you were at Stanford in 85, right? That's when you started. I came to Stanford in 1985. Then you made a breakthrough. Pretty much what you expected happened. You grew some players for a couple of years, and then in 88, you made a breakthrough. And then I think 1990 was your first NCAA championship. Right. Tell us about it. How did it feel? How did you feel when you accomplished that? Winning the national championship was, I think, awesome for, it wasn't just to win, but the people we had on our team, to share it with people like Jennifer Azee and Sonya Henning, Tricia Stevens, Val Whiting, Stacey Parson, Katie Stetting, that were great players, but they were even better people. And they worked very hard. They made great sacrifices. And they believed. They came to Stanford when the freshman year, like the seniors on that team, their freshman year, we were 500. And then their senior year, we won a national championship. So they believed in the dream of winning a national championship. We went from having maybe 20 people come to the games to selling out our Maples arena. So it was very exciting to have these women believe in the dream and to do all the work to make it happen. What would you say were the core values that you were instilling in the players, especially to encourage them to get to that level and maintain it? Well, I think it was a mix of hard work, confidence, resilience, dedication, teamwork, unselfishness. It was believing in the dream that we had, the goal that we had, being able to do whatever it took for our team to be successful, not necessarily your individual brand. And that was something that, again, passed the ball well, excited for other people when they did well. It was really a tremendous team. You know, it happens often that I happen to watch kids playing basketball, you know, not professional, just kids on a court. And there's one guy who's a little better than others, and he doesn't pass the ball. He always tries to dribble all the way out and then score. And that happens quite a bit. Did you see that? And how do you address that? You know, you're probably watching boys play. Yes, yes. Because when I watch young boys play, that's what they do, too. But it's interesting, if you watch young girls play, they pass and pass and pass and pass and pass, and someone needs to shoot. So it's really, maybe it's cultural or, you know, society. They're more humble. Maybe girls are more humble. Maybe it's that, but the boys need to, they need to mix it up. The boys need to learn to pass more, and the girls need to be more maybe individually attacking the basket better. But it's a thing where what I see is actually in Europe and around the world, to compete with American basketball, which American basketball was here, and to rise up to that, the rest of the world has figured out ways to train that are very effective. And it's not one person playing one on five or ten people and one ball and nine other players without the ball. A lot of skilled players grow up doing individual skills with two balls. So one person with two balls learning ball handling, passing, shooting, becoming more skilled. And that's something that I think is really lacking right now in our training for both boys and girls in our country. Now, I've got to ask you about challenges. How do you deal, how did you deal with challenges on the team in order to maintain that focus that's needed? It could be personal challenges, it could be attacks by media, by other people, bad results, losing games. How did you ignore that, or how did you address them to continue the focus, and not just for you, but for the whole team? Well, you know, there are times that I've dealt with that better than other times. There are times that I don't think that we were maybe as good as we could have been if maybe our leadership of our team, including coaches, handled it better. But I think for the most part, we established what I call the Stanford way. Or when I was at Ohio State, the Ohio State way. Or when I was at Idaho, this is the way we're going to do things. So we're going to come to practice. We are demanding of a great attitude and a great effort. And if we start with those two things, then we'll work on improving your skill, but being a great teammate, working hard, being unselfish, and every day focus on getting better. And every day focus on being a great teammate. And not letting one game define our team or define our season, but that in fact, you know, we can look back and just say, we had a great time playing on this team, it was a great experience, we became the best team that we could be. There are some teams that never win a national championship, but they really are very, they're championship teams because the goal is to be the best team and the best individual player you can be in that time. So you might not be Michael Jordan, but if you're the best Steve, then we've accomplished that goal. And there are times that there are players that sometimes are maybe immature. They get bad advice from their parents. They are selfish players or they are lazy players and then you're not going to accomplish your goals. Now you mentioned having the Stanford or the Ohio State weight. How do you balance, how much do you copy from other teams? Of course, the practice sets or the skills are probably the same, but how much do you copy and how much of your unique approach to coaching? See, that's a great question. I am a copier. I really watch and I don't copy, I just look at things that another team or another coach might do that would fit with what I do, fit with my philosophy, fit with the way we play the game of basketball. So I'll say, oh, that's a great idea. And the thing about basketball is you don't have to have a patent for it. So as an example, there was a coach that was a great coach and she ran incredible out-of-bounds plays. So I started running those out-of-bounds plays. And then we ended up playing that team. And so we were scouting the team and I showed our team, here's out-of-bounds play number one. And they're like, that's her out-of-bounds play. I'm like, you're right. And then out-of-bounds play number two, like, that's her out-of-bounds. I'm like, okay, I stole their out-of-bounds plays. So sometimes you just, if it works really well, then I take it. But I would say to any young coach, it's really important that you are yourself. So you're not like just willy-nilly taking all these things from other people. You have your core of your philosophy, your values, and then you add things that complement what you already do. What motivates you the most during your career? What is your main motivation to keep going? My main motivation, well, you live in the Bay Area. You got to pay your mortgage, right? So you want to keep your job. You want to do a great job for your own standard of who you are, be able to look in the mirror and say, I worked really hard today and I'm competitive. I don't want to let our team down. You know, I recruit great players to come to Stanford and I want them to get a great education. I want them to have a great experience on our team. Have fun, enjoy it, and you know, be sad when it's over. And so it really motivates, I'm very motivated to do the very best job I can, just set a high standard for myself. Now, you were named, I think, five times best coach nationally and 18 times Pac-12 best coach. But I think what's special, at least to me, in your career is 1996, the Olympic Games. Give us a history of what happened in 1996 with your team. You don't have enough time for that whole history, but I was introduced at Stanford in 1992. The U.S. lost in the Olympics to the unified team and the unified team had practiced and played together a lot and the USA team had just been put together in two weeks and we're going to go play. Just for our audience, if they are too young to remember, that means the Soviet Union combined was the unified team and it was the same year that the dream team first played, the men's team. Correct. So, but the dream team, they were professionals and actually the women were professionals, but they didn't play in their own country. It wasn't the caliber of professional that our men played or had that experience. So by not winning the gold, then the 96 Olympics were in Atlanta, so USA Basketball decided to try a new plan, which would be to have a coach resign from their college team and coach a team all year and train all year for the Olympics and that's what we did. And you were chosen. I was the coach, right, and I was chosen to win a gold medal. It was, I was introduced that way, that it was not about bronze, it's not about silver, this is about gold and it's part of Anver, so go win the gold medal. And we picked a team, our first trip was to Lithuania, our second trip from there we went from Lithuania to Italy and then our team took the summer off and then we played about 20 college games and we traveled all over the country, we traveled over 100,000 miles, we went back to Russia, we played in Ekaterinburg, we played in Australia, we played in China and Canada, we went basically, we played tournaments in, we played the Russian team in Chicago, we played the Ukraine team several times in either Florida or Charlotte, North Carolina, so we've traveled and we traveled and played constantly. So this was mainly to get used to different teams since the Olympics. This was to train the Olympics and we. You don't know who you're going to be against. We didn't know who we were going to play but everyone was kind of jockeying and we played against each other and just say, oh, all right, well, we better get a better three-point shooter or we better work on this, so it really helped us get ready for the Olympics. And we also trained against men every day, so if we weren't playing a game against, you know, one of the international teams or college teams, we had a male practice squad. Yes. And now I know the record for that year, your team's record was 60-0 and you ended up winning the gold medal. Right. What's interesting to me is one of the amazing things of this is that I think the closest game was against Japan, winning by 15 points. And I want to ask you, in your coaching career, would you rather win a game at the buzzard or by 15 points or 30 points? The closest game that we had in the Olympics was against Japan, but during that 60 games that we had closer games, we had a very close game with Russia in Chicago. That I think might have been our closest game. But I like when we win by 30. I mean, that's... I think that's a great answer. I think the audience probably likes that excitement, but as a coach, you want to win by as much as you can win. Well, it's not really so much winning as much as you want your team to play the best they can. And if you're a team that is 30 points better than this other team and you play 10 points better, then I would be disappointed because we're that much better. Now, if we're a team that's not as good as someone, if we were playing against some of the professional guys that we played against to get ready, we might lose against them. But they're bigger and stronger and they're better. So I didn't feel badly, but we were always trying to get better. We're always trying to be the best that we could be. And that was the challenge. Can you tell us what goes through your mind where you're sitting there in Atlanta, in the U.S. and the National Anthem is being played for the gold medal with all your players on the podium there? Well, about nine months before that, we had a college game against Georgia and we went to the Georgia Dome where the Olympics were going to be held. And one of the players on the team, there were a couple of players on the team that already had won gold medals. And I asked this player, bring your gold medal to practice that day. And she brought the gold medal because we were in Georgia and that was where she was from. And we did a practice medal ceremony nine months ahead of the real medal ceremony. And I said to the team, I said, we had a big video and it showed what the Olympics were going to be like. I said, in nine months, someone is going to win the gold medal. And if you want it to be us, then here's what we need to do. And we did a gold medal ceremony where I put the gold medals over their heads and they put their arms up in the air and they're really excited about it. We took a picture of the gold medal and put it on the front of our notebooks. And so we were very focused every day on winning that gold medal. And we wanted every behavior that we did. Being on time for the bus is winning the gold medal. Being a good teammate is winning the gold medal, being a champion. All those, every little thing that you do is always in the hunt for the gold medal. And so you're always doing championship behavior so that you're not going to win the gold medal by accident. It doesn't happen that way. So you tried to block pretty much everything, all the other noise. We did. And the players on this Olympic team were incredible because there was a lot of noise. They were just the start of the WNBA and the ABL. So half the team was going to play in the WNBA and the other half in the ABL. And that could have been a very divisive thing, like, well, you're not going in this league and I think you should. But this team was really amazing. The women on the team were mature. They were focused. They had given up big salaries to play in Europe to take a $50,000 salary from the U.S. Basketball Association. So they were taking a pay cut. They were traveling all over the world. They were doing workouts that were really demanding and really tough. They thought I was crazy. But they wanted to win a gold medal and they did everything they could to... And they were great to each other. I never had to sit down one time and say, you know, Steve, you're late or you're a troublemaker. Nothing like that. They were all in the whole time. Did you choose the players? I did not choose the players. I had some input, but it was chosen by a committee. Well, I can't emphasize enough how much I think the coach's influence on winning a medal is. I remember, again, the 1992 Dreams team, the men's team. Most people are still more familiar with the men's basketball. How crucial the coach was and how they even lost the first game. Not official game, but playing about a college team. And he almost did it on purpose to tell them, see you guys, you guys can lose. It's not like you're unbeatable. But how he built that team and it sounds like he did the same thing to accomplish this goal. Well, you know, if the coaches are important, how come the coaches don't get gold medals then? The coaches don't get medals. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's true. Well, you should. You should. Now, what happened after 1996? So after we won the gold medal, I came back to Stanford and coached the Stanford team and then resigned last year. So for the next 30 years or so, just, you know, 20, 23 years, coached the Stanford team. And that included two more national championships or one more. And last year you were also named best coach for Pac-12. Now, one other thing to mention is since 1996, since the team that you coached, the American women have not lost a game at the Olympics, which is pretty amazing. They're going on a 60 or no record, right? Women's basketball has the longest team streak. They have won, I think it's eight Olympics since 1996. They had a very, very tough game in France this past year. Both men and women, you know, for a long time, the Russian team won for 25 years straight and everyone else was down here. And then the American team kind of took over and we've won for a long time. But it's not, we're not head and shoulders above the rest of the world. We're right there. And I think we need to really continue to support girls and women's sports. And hopefully we will do that. And Title IX has been a very big part of why the women have dominated, U.S. women have dominated in the Olympics because of Title IX and the support and the resources that have gone to girls and women growing up. Tell us about some of the lessons you learned, your life lessons you learned from basketball. That's a great question. The life lessons, I would say, number one, I think, is just do something that you have a passion for. So I love basketball since I was in the fourth grade. And I got to go to the gym and travel all over the world because of a game that I loved. And so it never felt like a J-O-B job. It was always, I'm excited about going to the gym, about seeing the players, watching film, watching games, meeting people, traveling. It was never something that I, oh God, I've got to go to work today. It was never that way. And so I think it's really the most important life lesson is have a passion and follow it. And I would also say that I've learned to just be myself. I watch a lot of coaches. I go to coaching clinics. I read all these books. And I just said, I have to be myself. I have to teach what I believe in. I have to coach what I know and kind of go from there. And I would say also just the importance of, not that it was ever a job, I mean, it was a job, but the relationships with the players. I mean, I'm still, when you're coaching them, you kind of have boundaries of I'm the coach and you're the player. But now they're 30, 40, 50, 60 years old and I'm their friend. And it's really fun to have great young people that I've coached be in their lives and be important in their lives. I wonder if you can explain to our audience, what does it take to be a great basketball player and how do you coach? Let me tell you what I mean. I talked to someone who was a soccer player and then he was guarding one of the main players during the, I think it was 94 World Cup, right? He was guarding him. He was a college player, but they were having a scrimmage. So he was saying that this guy he was trying to guard, he was almost like in a different dimension traveling behind him. Like he would not know where he is. He's looking around. He's not there. And he's exactly where he needs to be where the ball comes, right? How do you teach that? Or how do you get to that level of gender? The greatest players, probably they start with some athleticism from their parents. For basketball, if you look at a player like maybe a Steph Curry, what separates Steph Curry from all these other players? Why is he so great? Or why is Michael Jordan or LeBron? They're all different, but they're very skilled, number one. So they have put an immense amount of time into being a great player. So it didn't just happen. They have sacrificed, instead of going to the movies, instead of maybe going to the beach or going to the pool, they are in the gym or they are out on the court at the playground working on their game. And the greatest players, the time doesn't guarantee it, but the great players have put their time in. They have maybe a special gift in the same way that a Mozart has a special musical gift. How do you measure that? They're born with it. And so they have a gift, but they maximize it by their hard work. And then being part of a team, because it's not an individual sport, being part of a team, they have to really be very mature, unselfish, and they have to be very resilient, because they're going to miss a lot of shots. If someone shoots like 50% from the field, that's pretty good. That's only making half your shots. So I think it's a combination of just a really good sense of self. Great players really understand the big picture and they get it. What would be your advice to young players who are starting, who love basketball, girls who want to play, and they're on the edge? Whatever sport it is, and parents will talk to me, you do have to have... If you want to be really great, you can enjoy it. You don't have to be great. You can have fun and play high school basketball, junior high basketball, you can play college basketball. But if you want to be a great player, then you have to really commit to it. And you have to really organize your time in a way that you can, when you're a young player, do your homework, and have time for your friends, but dedicate yourself to your sport. Please tell us, how do you manage stress in times of stress? That's a great question. I think probably handling stress, the best way I deal with it is to work out. So I try to have a routine of... I used to run every other day, and then I'd either bike or swim in between. So six days a week, I would work out. And I try to... I realized, even with the Olympic team, we play these late games, and then we go out and the players would just eat a massive amount of food. And the first night, I said, oh, I'm not playing. I can't be eating all this food. So really making sure that I feel good about myself, that in order to be a really good coach for our team, and to deal with all the different pressures and things that will go wrong when you're a coach, to start with myself and to take really good care of myself physically, get my sleep. I read a lot. I relax listening to music. I take, even as a coach at Stanford, beyond the Olympic team, I take a good month in the summer and I water ski, I sail, I swim, and I totally get away from things. Maybe not totally, but mostly get away from things. And just really have time for myself and kind of recharge my battery. And I feel like if I'm recharged and I'm excited and enthusiastic and not run down, then I can do a good job for our team. What would be your advice for leaders? And they could be in sports or in business or even in personal life to take a lead in what you're doing? Well, I speak at a lot of leadership groups, academies, all kinds of things. I think everyone's always looking for kind of the secrets of leadership. It's a magic pill. You just take a pill. Yeah, I don't think they are secrets, honestly. If you, I think the number one thing might be to answer the question, why would someone follow me? So if you're a leader, why should someone follow you? What is it that you do that is something special? And I see leaders as more servants. Leaders are people that serve people, that care more about the outcome than other people, that want the best for the people they're leading, that really are invested emotionally in the process, the people, the outcome. And more than anything, are there to help everyone achieve their individual goals, too, and kind of bring it all together. And it's not necessarily the loud person yelling commands, but more the person that knows where you're going. And I have to ask you about any inside stories about some specific games. Are there any games that stand out, like if you were to choose one or two, you'd say, okay, this is the game that meant the most to me, or this is the game that we turned things around and we ended up winning, or whatever happened. Okay, well, there was a game that we were down 26 in the first half, and it really just didn't look like anything was going to happen right. And then all of a sudden, you know, it turned around. Well, it turned around, we were down 12 at halftime, and at halftime, the team went running in excited. Like, usually, if you're down 12 at halftime, you're kind of like, oh, you know, but they were all excited because we were down 12 instead of 26. And then we came back on the second half, we won the game by 18. So that was like a, you know, almost like a 44 point turnaround. And just the, I think, I think just the determination, the resilience, the fact that people just stayed with things was a great lesson for our team. I think it's actually the biggest comeback that we've had. So not only that, but when your opponent knows, future opponents know that this team was down by 26 and we still won, they're not going to relax, they're going to be worried, no matter what, where they are in the game. So it was like, we had another game that you just reminded me of that this particular team this year, it was, I think the 20, I think it was 2017 or 2018 team at Stanford. I think it was a 2018 team, they would, we would be behind all the time and we'd find ways to win. We were down, I think we were down like 18 and came back and won against Washington in front of 10,000 people. So we did develop this confidence. And so this one game we were playing, we were playing Notre Dame, actually, and we were down, I think we were down 14, but we'd been down more and then we actually went down more in the halftime. And as we were going into the locker room, one of our team captains and leaders was running by and yelled out, I'm with the coaches, and she yelled out, we've got them right where we want them. And I'm like thinking, what game is she at? But when we got in the locker room, I said that, I just said that to our team, I said, we've got them right where we want them. And let's, you know, who wants to guard one of their players that was tearing us up? And she's, someone said, I'll take her. And we got back in the game and went on to win and go to the Final Four. So it was very exciting. That's that's awesome. Now, I know you had a passion for piano. Please tell us about that and how that shaped your career. Well, I love music. I played the flute when I was a young girl and I loved playing the flute and I was actually pretty good. And but I had a teacher that was, she was demanding and she was a good teacher, but it wasn't a good fit for me because I would go to my lessons and become physically ill no matter what I did. It was never good enough. And she was always she was very critical of how I played and it didn't encourage me. So I quit the flute and I never said to my parents, I quit because of this teacher. I should have just gotten a new teacher and I could have enjoyed it. But fast forward to when I'm an adult, then I decided I would love to play the piano. I just thought I can sit down and play the piano. It's a lot harder than that. So after two weeks of trying to teach myself, I went out and got a great, great teacher. And within one year I did a CD. Another year I did another CD. And they're beautiful, beautiful music. And I love taking piano lessons from my teacher. Her name is Jody. And what I learned from Jody was a great coach or a great teacher can take a student somewhere they can't get by themselves. And that's what I learned from Jody. And that's how I wanted to be as a coach. And I could relate to our players in that, as an example, I'd practice. I could knock out my music for what I was going to play, our recital. I could knock it out at home. And I'd get to the recital and be like, that was horrible. And I'd go home. I'd be so upset. And sometimes our players would practice really well. And then a big game, maybe they'd miss a shot. And I could relate to that. And I was just like, don't worry about it. We'll get it the next time. My piano teacher made me, I think she really helped me become a better coach. That's great to hear. You know, I hear so many stories where a teacher or a coach, a teacher, could be an elementary school teacher or even a middle school, that changes the whole career of a kid. They decide to do biology because they had a great biology teacher. How do you, in your experience, how do you balance being tough enough on a student or on an athlete, but at the same time, not like the teacher you had that always said, you're no good. Talk to us about that balance, because I think that's something that's needed. I think we all know when we've had a great teacher. Yes. And you can go back, and I can say, well, my fifth grade teacher was, oh, God, it was great. They care about you, that you can feel that and you know that. And there's a quote by Maya Angelou that it goes a little bit like this. You'll forget what people say. You'll forget what people do. But you'll never forget how people make you feel. And a great teacher makes you feel valued. They see you. And so I think as a coach, it's no matter what the player, you know, how good they are, they miss the shot, or they're the last player on the team, or they're the star, whatever. But you see each player, and you value them for the person that they are. And sometimes that's hard to do because, as a coach, sometimes you're dealing with immature players. You're dealing with players that are, you know, again, maybe aren't, they're selfish about their own game. The little boy you saw dribbling all the time never passed him. But it's a challenge as a coach. And I go back to coaching my sister in that everyone is a sister on the team. Everyone, that's their sister, their mother, their cousin, whatever, that they're a valuable person to someone. And that it's very important to value them. Tara, thank you so much for your time. It's a pleasure talking to you. You're a legend in the basketball Hall of Fame and history. Any concluding thoughts for our audience? I think you did a great job interviewing. I think, you know, you did your homework. You know kind of where I'm coming from. You know, I will say this, is that basketball is not an individual sport. It was invented as a team sport. And it was invented in Springfield, Massachusetts by James Naismith to keep his YMCA boys busy in the winter because it was cold out. But it was always invented as a team sport. So any accomplishments I have are never individual. It's because I have a great staff. I've worked at great universities for, you know, very supportive administrators. Or I've had, you know, fantastic players. And, you know, my dad always said, you don't win the Kentucky Derby on a donkey. And the players I have coached at Stanford and at Ohio State and at Idaho and on the Olympic team are phenomenal, phenomenal people and incredibly talented players. So I've been very fortunate. Tara, thank you so much for your time. All right, you're welcome. Thank you for watching another episode of Bay Area Innovators. If you enjoyed this episode and you know someone who should be on our show, please send us an email at sfbay at epochtimes.com. We would love to hear from you. Thank you and see you next week.