Cottage Garden Design: Must-Follow Rules or Myths (with Cranery Gardens) | Perennial Garden

When it comes to designing a cottage garden, there are many different ways to go about it, or maybe actually there aren't so many ways to go about it. So, in order to get to the bottom of what's going on, we invited one of our absolute favorite YouTube channels, Cranery Gardens, here with Crane and Jason to enter sort of a debate discussing some of the topics surrounding cottage garden design and cottage garden planning. But before we dive in, I thought we'd give Crane and Jason a chance to introduce themselves. Hello. My name is Crane from Cranery Gardens. I grow, cut flowers, and all kinds of flowers in my backyard. And then I cut, cut, cut, cut, cut them, and then I arrange them, and I sell them at my roadside stand. Sometimes I just give away to friends and family. And yeah, that's all I do. And here's my lovely husband, Jason. Yeah. Hi, I'm Jason. I'm Crane's husband. And yeah, I'm kind of like supporting role for Crane. He's like the brains and probably the CEO of the operation. And I'm more like the day laborer. I'm like the ones doing all the little tasks behind the scenes, like mowing the lawn, edging. And sponsor. Well, that is fantastic. And you guys have a beautiful garden. And if you're interested, we'll be sure to link all of that, so you can make sure to check them out and follow them. So shall we get to the rules, guys? The rules are going to be kind of simple. We have some topics that we'd like to discuss. I have them here, so don't forget them. The way we think we do it is we'll each present our side of the argument for around one minute each, and then we'll have a chance to counter each other's arguments to see if there are any holes that we can poke in it and see maybe who's right and who's wrong. And then at the end, we'd like to let you know actually which side of that argument we actually stand on. So you'll have to stick around to see if we're debating something we actually don't feel in our heart or something that we do. So shall we dive right in, guys? Yes. Sure. Okay. So the first topic is plant density and talking about how closely together we should plant perennials and annuals and different flowers for a cottage garden. I think we should leave space in between each plant because that's how we do it. Because, you know, if you plant too close to each other, you kind of confuse yourself and also you don't see the distinction between plants. You know, our borders are pretty wide, so I feel like we need to get in to the borders to get to certain plants in the back. So I like to leave a little space in between the plants. You know, if you don't have space, sometimes we step on, you know, our plants all the time. And especially if you don't know the plants, you know, and we kind of yell at each other all the time for stepping on plants. So our stance is to... Space out. Plus we have a pretty big piece of property. It's over an acre. So we like to kind of drag it out a little bit and not cram everything into one spot because it's a lot of garden space. And I think this is like majority of people in America like to do this. Okay. So you're definitely team space out. Well, we actually love to plant really closely because we think it helps, first of all, that you don't have a lot of weeds going around and it also helps that the ground doesn't really dry out. Yeah. For us, it really definitely helps to have them so close because what we don't like to do in the whole season is to do a lot of weeding. And that helps when it's the plants, the perennials are not closely together. 100%. Yeah. And when you plant really close together, especially in the cottage garden, we have a smaller space. And here in, I would dare say, I better not say, but here in the city, in Denmark, especially for all of Europe, as though I can, but here in ours, we have a very small garden, so we can get a lot more impact with a lot more plants, with a lot more color by planting really closely together. Yeah. And also, I would say that you have the chance of having more colorful flowers throughout the season. It's higher when you plant closely together. Exactly. Definitely team close together. How you walk in your garden? We just tiptoe, tiptoe around like plants. Yeah. Well, first of all, we don't walk through our flower beds. The fact that you walk through your flower beds is you also work with cut flowers. So you need to really get in and around your plants. We have paths separating our different flower beds. So we're walking down gravel paths around our plants. When we need a deadhead, you can see what's a plant and what isn't a plant. If an echinacea is up to my waist, I'm not going to step. You can step around it. It's not that complicated, Craig. It is. How do you, I mean, how do you weed? Let's say there's weed growing in between echinacea and verbena, bonarensis. How would you weed between two dense, two plants? What we normally do, we would hand weed. It's really important to start really early. And just getting all the weeds out with the roots right away. So hand weeding is definitely, if you have a very packed flower bed, then definitely hand weeding is the best thing. And then getting all those weeds away. And once we, like, because we plant really closely, then we weed really heavily three times in early spring. And then there's no more weeds. And I'm not even lying. Then there's no more weeds throughout the whole summer. Here and there, there might be, like, a big weed coming up after a holiday, summer holiday, but otherwise we don't have to do any weeding, which is really great. That's awesome. And another reason for planting so close together is if you look out in nature, you know, the good Lord isn't spacing plants two feet apart because that's what the packet of seed says. You know, wherever a plant throws its seed, that's where it comes from. Good point. I don't think we have anything. We don't have another counter. You have any questions for us? No, I feel that we're so right. There's really no need to question your viewpoint. Okay. I think we better win the next one. Okay. Next question. What's the next one? How do you really feel? Do you really feel that spacing, is that your true stance? I feel like, no, I have this problem that I have too many plants to plant, so I end up, you know, planting them densely anyway in reality. Yeah, and I think some of our garden beds are still not completely, you know, just because we're... The cut flowers grow not completely. Yeah, but the borders are pretty dense, right? Yeah, and I have to tiptoe like you guys, too. Speaking of color, that brings us to our second topic, which is a color scheme. Is it better to plant any color that you want just because you like it, or is it better to stick to one particular color? So as our guests, I think you can start first. I would like to stick with one color scheme. And that's because I don't like certain colors if they pop up, you know, in the middle of nowhere in our yard. Let's say I go pink snapdragon, pink dahlias, pink zinnias, and white and creamy, you know, and like pale, creamy yellow color. And out of nowhere, there's like a poke of red flowers. We'll get these red gladiolas that come back every year. It just sticks out like a sore thumb, you know? And we wind up leaving them, but to us, it's not aesthetically pleasing. Yeah, and if you look in a cottage-style magazine, you know, there's always like color scheme, pastel color. So I am kind of speaking for the universe. Okay, so we're definitely going the other direction. Yeah, like more rainbow color, the better, like all colors in our garden. We have all colors, actually. A lot of people are afraid of yellow. We love yellow because it gives so much. But then in that way, we also have like just flowers throughout the whole season. We don't have to risk that, oh, there's a patch that doesn't have any color because we put yellow next to purple. And then we're not afraid of trying out. And if it doesn't work, we just move the perennial to a different spot. And that's a good point about the perennials because you really can move them. If it didn't work this summer, if something popped up that you didn't like, then you can just move it. And also Lars works at a cemetery garden. We've talked about those before here in Denmark, where the cemetery where people are laid to rest is also like a public park with beautiful paths and benches and perennial flower beds. And there, they really focus more on color blocking. So it's a whole group of yellow, a whole group of purple and things like this. Because then it gives you more of a, to me, it gives a sense of calm, a sense of respect, you know, a sense of rhythm. But here, fortunately, no one is buried outside that we know of. And we have diet of color. It's just a lot more fun. And to counter your argument, if I may, it's a bit more natural. We talked about self-seeding and things like that. And when plants throw their seed, they really mix in and blend in and go anywhere. So I think the idea of all pink while beautiful maybe isn't quite possible. How about three colors? Maybe five colors? Well, totally between the middle. And if you remember, when you focus on cut flowers, I'm assuming you have a lot more need for one color than the other. Would that be true? I would also say that I understand the thing that it gives a different atmosphere, a different feeling if you have a lesser amount of, for example, if you had pinks, maybe a bit more calm in a way. So I could see it from both points of views. And after seeing your garden and following you guys, I mean, whatever you do, don't change a thing. You can say anything. Don't change a thing. And to be honest with you, this year I just created a garden that is like, I just randomly put everything in front of the greenhouse. The wildlife garden. Wildlife garden. Just throw stuff. Perennials. But speaking of just throwing sort of, I know you're not literally throwing because we followed you and you're, there's always a method to the madness. But what about for cottage garden? We think, making sure that I'm on the right one. Yes, we believe that mixing vegetables, fruits, and flowers, you can't just have a cottage garden of only flowers. You have to have a cottage garden that includes edibles, that includes these ornamentals as well. Because traditionally, when cottage gardens were created, that's what they were all about. They were about mixing those two in companion plants to those beautiful pops of color. So it's not a cottage garden if it doesn't have plants and edibles at the same time. That's what we think. I built like a, like a enclosure for vegetable garden, just because we're having like rabbit issues and some other, some other animals are getting in. And so we've built like a fence with a gate. And so we have like a, like a pen almost for our vegetables. And with Crane's cut garden, you know, cut flower garden, we, you know, don't really mix in the vegetables in those, in those flower beds. So that's just kind of what works for us. And that's because I run out of room. That's because I run out of room and I end up even mix flowers in the vegetable garden. Yeah. There are some, yeah. It's true. His aunt was here the first year we built the vegetable garden and she filled it up like completely. And then the following year we didn't really keep up on it as much. And it kind of got overtaken by 70% of the vegetable garden, some flowers, zinnias and sunflowers. I see what you mean. If you have, it depends on what kind of garden you have. Ours is very enclosed. So we don't have any issues with like rabbits or anything. So I see your point of view, if you have rabbits and things like that in your garden. Yeah. Plus you guys have a much bigger space. So I guess in that case, technically you do have vegetables and flowers growing in the same garden. I guess it all depends on how you do it. But if we talk about like the real cottage garden, do you think we should include food and vegetables? If we were completely honest. If we take the kind of flowers from the equation. I guess you did more in the old days. I think gardens has really changed now. Well, for this point of this debate, we chose the side that yes, you should have edibles in. That sounds like. But we have a few like annual plant, like flowers which are edible or you can use for salads and stuff, but that it's not like it's mainly perennials we have. We have, we have nothing. We don't grow a carrot. We don't grow a potato. We don't grow spinach. The supermarket is literally a 10 minute walk down. And or the farmer's market is every Wednesday and Saturday in our town square. We're not about to start growing vegetables. I'm so sorry. If you think it's not a real cottage garden guys, but in the first, we had like tomatoes in the greenhouse. Yeah. A lot of work for the, like for a tomato. Yeah. For a tomato. Exactly. Yeah. We'd walk in with like one tomato. We're like, look at all the, yay. This tomato costs us $5,000. And six months of your life. And you can buy a kilo Danish brown. What do you call them? Ecological carrots for like two us dollars. It's not, we're very blessed that it's okay. So no, we are actually team only flowers in the cottage garden. Oh, shake hands. Yay. Friends forever. Woo. I have another one though. Yeah. Segway flowers. Deadheading. Where do you stand on cottage garden and deadheading? He gasped. Um, we don't need to deadhead the flowers to keep it natural. And the reason is because I love the birds in our backyard and I would like to feed them with the seed from acnesia, from sunflowers, not perennial, but yeah. And all kinds of seed that, you know, they can enjoy. And also some flowers, they, once they finish blooming, they leave the seed pod. Yeah. Like rose, like the roses. And rose hips too. Yeah. The poppies, right? Yeah. Poppies. Um, what else did you grow that had a beautiful? Yeah. All kinds of flowers. Have like really awesome like seed pods. Yeah. And then you collect the seeds, right? You collect the seeds for, you know, if you, if you deadhead and you don't get the seeds. No. Those are fair points. Yeah. But we, uh, like definitely because that really, we feel it really like the plant, that plant will produce more flowers. And then later on, we're gonna still collect, uh, seeds from them. Uh, yeah. Yeah. We're, we're huge seed collectors here, so that's no secret. But the thing with, with deadheading is it, it keeps our flowers just giving that color all the way through August, September, some of them. And then once you can tell it's that last, that last flowering, that's when we usually stop. And then we leave those on the plant and those go to seed. Cause there's no need for it to go to seed in June. If you can keep it flowering to August, you know what I mean? And the birds are just, they can fly to, to New Jersey. That's where they're all coming from. Huh? We're getting all the birds from Denmark. But what about for the, to go with what you're saying? What about working with cut flowers and especially with perennials? Is there, are you, do you even have any seed left at the end? Because you've cut them and made beautiful bouquets. I, okay. Let's get off the debate. So I, I actually cut a lot of flowers instead of deadheading them. So. That's kind of our, that's kind of our version of deadheading is cutting for our, for our roadside stand. Yeah. So, yeah. And for the perennials that I really go for wildlife, that echinacea, you know, I just leave it there. I never deadhead them. And I love deadheading. I'm always deadheading the roses, all the little like marigolds and stuff that, you know, I'm, I'm constantly out deadheading. So. Yeah. Yes. I think, I think Jason and Alan has so many things in common. I think I see one of your video, you're saying that you are the deadhead person. Yeah. Flowers, you know, picking dead flowers, that heads off. Because the reason why I don't let Lars do it is he would say he deadheaded and he would come in with nothing. Because he secretly wants everything to go to seed already in March. Like that's what he thinks. So it's my job to prolong it as long as we can. But if I didn't have Alan, then there wouldn't be enough flowering, like for such a long time, because he's really great at deadheading. I'm really bad at that. I will just let it go to seed. Me too. I don't care. So good team, good team. So it seems like we actually agree on this one, right? Yeah, we try to disagree, but it doesn't really work. This one might be the one that breaks the camel's back, breaks the bank. What do you say? Native versus non-native plants in the garden. We believe, and help me out here, Lars, that you don't have to, especially for a cottage garden, having native with non-native plants is totally okay, and really recommended. You'll get a lot more color, a lot more variety. Yeah, I think so too. Like that's not a. And there are a lot of plants, for example, even lupins here, which aren't native to Denmark, they can still bring a lot of biodiversity into the garden, as well as color. And so you don't have to be afraid of a non-native plant. So we think mixing those two together in your garden is completely fine and required. Yeah, this one is kind of difficult to make a debate because I'm also the same. I grow everything. I want to grow everything. Yeah, I mean, we try to incorporate as much native as we can, you know, but. In terms of cut flowers, especially cut flowers, you know, we cannot do that. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot more awareness for trying to grow native stuff nowadays than it was in the past. You know, it used to be all ornamental and stuff that you would never see in our region and just make it more exotic. But I think now people are trying to go back to more stuff that's going to be more habitable to the wildlife. Yeah. At the same time, I feel like some of us can feel guilty to include some exotic plants. And, you know, I've been through that for a few years that I feel like, oh, I have to grow native, native, but, you know, it's also our garden, too. You know, you can go native in the forest, in the wood, you know, but this is our garden. We want something for us, too. So, I just, you know, want to leave something here in the channel that if you feel like so guilty to include some exotic plants, you know, like, don't feel that way. And I think the only thing we have to pay attention to is the invasive species. That's all. The rest should be fine. What do you think? Take lupins, for example, actually here in Denmark. And we get a lot of this because Lars has an Instagram account and the YouTube channel, we get a lot of guilt put on us by other people and how, you know, but they feel they kind of, they kind of press on. So, one of them are lupins, for example, they're considered, they're definitely not native and they're considered invasive. You can see them on the roadside. You see them everywhere in Denmark, but they're actually not supposed to be here. But then there's some, of course, they do then make some like different hybrids. Of the lupins, for example. So you can avoid that. They sell seed. And what then we also do, like we take the, when they finish flowering, we take the seed parts away. So they don't sell. So at all, we don't have like baby parental or baby lupins all over the garden. And I know like Norway, Sweden, other countries, also very curious. Oh, why are you allowed to having those in your garden? But it's not like I'm living, you know, next to, next to a wild field where they can just sell. If you have, there's some certain varieties that you should be really aware of. Of course, help the nature, not like having all these really invasive. Yeah. And, and also, I don't know where I'm guessing, like the extension office in the, in the U S for every County, but even keep an eye on what was invasive last year, might not be invasive this year. This past two years ago, the butterfly. Yeah. The butterfly bush was, was considered an invasive bush here in Denmark. Although you saw it everywhere. And then two years ago, they took it off of the list. So keep an eye on what you've always heard was invasive because maybe it's actually not anymore because of the diversity that's been changing the ecosystem changing. Yeah. I think just going back to like the native ones, I think they also really great. And you, if you get other more like tropical plants home, like make sure that they are, you know, strong enough to survive the climate that you live in and things like that. So I think there's different things you need to be aware of. Here's one, you know, that native plants, some people call them weeds. So let's go ahead and move into weeding into the garden. How often think for a cottage garden, weeding is necessary. Yeah. I think it's, I mean, the lines will pop up in the yard and in the grass and whatnot, and we'll just let them kind of go and go to go to seed. We have a milkweed that's all up and down our driveway. We leave that alone. We found out that the Monarch butterflies really enjoy the milkweed. So I think they eat the leaves, right. And then they lay their eggs on the pods, right. They lay their, lay their eggs. So, so we just kind of let, let nature take its course in the gardens. Okay. We try to put down a lot of mulch. We try to put down a lot of compost and just let, you know, hopefully. Let the weeds. The weeds. No. Your team weed. Team weed. Your team weed. Team lead weeds though. We take the weeds away and right on in spring, January, when our hands are cold or February, we start weeding because yeah, we want it gone. And because they will compete against the perennials and they will sell. So earlier than the perennials will even be up. So it's going to be a mess and just a jungle out in the garden. If we don't. And that competing for nutrients, competing for moisture, competing for space, competing for light. There's a lot to that. So the earlier you can get out, especially in the cottage garden with people who plant so closely together with a mix of native and non-native, you got to get those weeds out. Otherwise you're just setting your garden up for not success. In Denmark, we are very focused on people say, okay, it's actually, why do we call it a weed? Sometimes on our, on our channel, definitely on our Instagram with a lot of Danish people, because who defines a weed? It's actually, you would rather say, okay, it's a plant in the wrong spot because there's actually, there's not, there's not such a word like weeds. It's just, it just lives in the wrong spots. Yeah. For some people say that. My counter, we don't have to weed because we have to let our husband wait for us. That is very true. So he's, he's focused on like, you know, the cut flowers and, you know, growing part of the fun part. Yeah. Oh, that's the fun part. So, and then, yeah, like I said before, like I'm like the maintenance guy, I'm the, you know, I'm behind the scenes. I'm like the groundskeeper. So yeah, I'm going around pulling the weeds, trying to, yeah, as best as I can, you know, cause like, like we don't have any outside help. It's just the two of us and it's a pretty big piece of property. So, you know, it's, it feels like a losing battle sometimes, you know, like I'll weed in one corner and then the weeds are popping up on the other side. So, but as best I can, I try to keep up with the weeding. And I mean, and I just try not to be a perfectionist about it. Cause it's just, like I said, it's a losing battle. I can see your point of view though, that it's, you know, it's a, sometimes maybe it feels like a never ending battle because weeds will come up anywhere. Like, and every year they will come back, even though you thought you got done up with roots. And I could see the idea with, if you have a lawn, for example, that you have dandelions, like why would you go and pick them up? I can see like, maybe you take away some habitants for like some kind of butterflies, for example, that we might not then see in our garden. So, you know, I can, I can see that point of view with the more, maybe more native animals, insects coming back. Yeah. But there are several gardens here on our street that they're more than happy. They love the weeds. So. Yeah. Weeds are very happy here on our street. So yeah. Just not really welcome in our. We're really nice. We love biodiversity, but. Yeah, we go to the house. It goes in your garden though. Really? It really shows in your gardens are absolutely pristine. So. Well, you know, you guys mentioned that a while ago, this is your space, right? It has to be your space and it has to be something that you enjoy being in. And dandelions are more than welcome to grow up and down the highway. We have like, we find like, we laugh about, but then we find like, I don't know if it was a dandelion, but it was like a huge metal, maybe like two meters tall. And we just laughed about, we hadn't seen it. This one was giving a garden tour and he's like, this is this, and this is this and everything. And then out came the big weeds. It just happens. Yeah. There's also something very satisfying about getting that whole route out of the dandelion. You know, like when, right. I mean, it's just something like to get the whole weed out, the whole route and everything like that. It's just like, ah, you know, it's, it's satisfying. I'm glad you enjoyed that. Along with that. You really are the groundskeeper. I know how you feel. Yeah. Camera. Yeah. It's a hard job, man. Modern elements in the garden, especially for a cottage garden. We believe that modern elements like contemporary sculptures, sleep, you can tell I have to read my notes. So maybe you can already see how much I believe in what I'm saying. Contemporary sculptures, sleep furniture. This is really important for a cottage garden because cottage gardens have to involve this. Isn't 1776. You have to move on with the time. So cottage gardens have to have this super modern, super elegant element in it. We believe 100%. We believe that. I disagree. This one, this one can be a real debate. This could be a real debate. I mean, it could be a cultural thing, but my preference is I, I feel like when you step into a garden, I want to, I want you to feel like you're stepping back in time. That's, you know, we have a gnome house. We have, I try to do like those old fashioned concrete benches and some, you know, old fashioned, you know, sculptures and stuff like that. I like old fashioned. Like those old bar baths and stuff like that. I feel like modern furniture and stuff kind of takes away from that aesthetic. For me, we do you have any counters for us? Otherwise, I don't know if I can hold it in anymore. I must tell you. Opposite of sleek and modern. We put on a collar just to be cute for this man. We are, we are rustic. We are down home. We are, I grew up in Georgia. I'm country. We, we built our own terrace out of wood. We have. We have the, we have a bench that our neighbor, like a wooden bench that our neighbor tossed to the street for like, to toss for the dumpster. And we were like, can we have it? And it was like, it's not, you can sit on it, but if you sit five people, it might just like break. But it has this. To it. Like, this is what we like. We think a cottage garden should look lived in. It should look loved. And the way we show this in our design style is, is through elements that have a story that have a life that have been somewhere. So we're more there with you guys. And I know it's different, like, but if you can't connect to this modern, then it's just not you. So I would say everybody have to find their own style. If you love the modern twist, then do that. And if you like more, like you do do that. Yeah. That's true. It's all a matter of preference. Yeah. Same with keeping a lawn. Here's a great topic for cottage garden. We believe that cottage gardens have to have a lawn. If you don't have a big piece of grass, big, you know, you need it to for recreation activities. You could throw a ball slide on it. Yeah. A water slide. You can have lots of activities. So then it makes, especially for a cottage garden, which is where life circled around, you have to have one. You have to have that area of recreation and a place to hang out. We're team lawn. You're team lawn. Huh? Okay. So, and me and crane kind of debate about, you know, I'm team lawn and he's team garden. So he keeps, it's like a constant battle of, you know, he's taking more lawn and I'm trying to, you know, take more garden back and make it more like livable space. And so, yeah, we kind of, that's our little, you know, bone of contention is, you know, it's a give and take, you know, because I think it's a very American thing to have a lawn and, you know, cut your lawn and, and American pastime kind of thing to have. And I know lawns have kind of fallen out of favor for, for a more natural, you know, supportive of wildlife, you know, people doing more stuff, taking their lawn up and putting in, you know, wildlife meadows and stuff like that. But I feel like that might be pretty for a couple months out of the year, like a wildlife meadow in your front yard. But then, you know, then what are you looking at all winter? You know, you're looking at a bunch of dead stuff. So I don't think, I don't think our neighbors would appreciate it either. You know, right. So, Lawn, I think is important. You know, it's not, it's not. He wants to turn the whole yard into native. I'm actually team garden because I think having a lawn, there's not much life and there's so many months of the year. You can't even walk on it. It's like a swamp. And I think it's just nicer having, like, for example, paths around. So we had a lawn when we, when our son was younger, really fun trampoline. We could in the summer slide with water slides so much fun, but there's so many times where you can't use the lawn and. You have to cut it during the growing season. You have to cut it. So like almost every day, you can just see it grow. So, so in all honesty, we're actually team. No lawn. We are team more garden. We've literally done our lot. Well, we didn't dig it. We flipped our lawn over. So we. Chopped it up. We turned the turf over. By the path of where the flowerbeds are. Yeah. And then, so that became the new flowerbeds. So sort of a no dig method for our new flowerbeds. So our lawn is out there. It's just upside down and we can use it all year. It's really great walking on the gravel and in the summer, we can walk bare feet. Yeah. So I'm the odd man out on this one. I'm the only one that likes a little bit of a lawn. Well, I think a lot of people still need lawns, you know, if they have kids and I think even I, I need a little bit of lawns too, because when I have like flower workshop or maybe family party, you know, it's kind of needed. Yeah. You'll have like a workshop. So we need like a space to spread out a bunch of like picnic tables and, you know, eventually maybe like a tent or something like that and just have a place where people can family parties throughout the year. I have lots of nieces and nephews and like it's, it's dwindling. It's getting smaller and smaller every year. And it will get smaller this year too. It's going to get smaller this year too. Lawn looks pretty though. It's, it's nice if you have the space having some kind of lawn, we had that at our old house. Huge lawn, but it, yeah, it takes a lot of time, but it is pretty in the summer and the smell of grass. But yeah, it depends on needs. Like you also said, like, it depends on the family. If you have small kids, a lawn is a must, like playing ball. It would just hit. Now it would just hit the olive granules. yeah. I would love to see if our son took a ball outside and dared. There's no sun in our garden, but it's very, it is. We had a trampoline even around the flower beds. When we first moved in, I used to hit golf balls to the back of the property, back and forth. And I can't do that anymore with the greenhouse. With my dolly. With his dolly. There's more golfing in the backyard. What about plant height? That's another big topic when it comes to designing a cottage garden, the different heights that you need. Do you need to pay attention to it or can you just plant whatever? Absolutely. What do you guys think? Absolutely. We need to pay attention at plant height. Because you don't want to block the little plants with the tall plants, right? Because the little plants will not get sunlight and they need sunlight. And I feel so bad for that one. If they don't get sunlight, I feel like I'm torturing them. That's the first reason. Second reason, you know, when you have like a wall garden or like flower border on your, you know, parameter of your property, you're not going to see that little plants that get blocked by the tall plants. We actually think there's no rules when it comes to height in the garden. We plan like wherever we feel the plant goes. And also at Liam's, they are tall and we just plant them right up to the, to the border. Yeah. To the edge of the border. Yeah. So we really don't pay that much attention to it. And as we mentioned before, if this year we decided it didn't work, then we move it in the autumn or in the spring, depending on the perennial, but we really plant yeah, wherever. And, and to your point though, to counter, I think, wouldn't you say it matters what that little plant is. Maybe it's just that little plant that's wrong and not the whole idea of plant height. It's still important to me, especially if you grow, I think because I grow cut flowers, you know, I have to really pay attention because to, to produce that flowers, then they really need the sunlight. But the great thing about perennials that you can like, and also mentioned, you can move them around after a season if it's, Oh, it didn't work. Or like, we are not so worried about that. It's, you know, it's, if it's too high, we had a geranium once that got way too tall. Like it was taking over and you couldn't exactly see the things in the back. And then we just dug it up and then planted a little bit in a different spot. But some of them, like, for example, the liam's are really so sculptural and you can kind of still see through them. So those who really recommend for people saying, don't be so afraid of putting these Williams, even if, if it gets tall, because it gives so much structure to the, even they're close to the border, which we think it's nice. And I think I agree with you guys, as far as, you know, cottage gardens. I think you don't want it to be too uniform and like everything kind of slant down. I think you want that kind of variety of tall stuff in the front and little stuff in the back. And it actually kind of adds a little bit of interest. Like you have to kind of look over something to look at something in the back. I think that's kind of important. The charm that we're going for talking about the sleek and the modern versus the sort of natural. Exactly. But, but we say that, but at the same time, we don't put a hollyhock on the edge of the border. You know what I mean? We don't put time in the back. So, so there is. That you can kind of see through it, you know, even though it's tall. Exactly. Or if we're being a bent and it's really, really skinny, you can see through it. So we pay attention to it that way, but then. We had a digitalist once that got super tall, really close to the border, but we actually left it because we thought it was still very cute. You can still see through it. You know what I mean? But then if it's a big, yeah, she got to go. Yeah. So I think we kind of agree on that one. If it's from honest. Yeah. Except for his cut flower section of it. Yeah. When it comes to cut flowers. Yeah. Kind of agree. On the cottage part. Actually we discussed about cottage garden. We'll take kind of. We have one more topic though, before we let you guys go and we say goodnight to everybody watching. And it's about soil in the garden. We believe when it comes to a cottage garden, the less you do, the better. Meaning once your perennials are established, you leave them there pruning and et cetera, cutting them back in the spring or autumn, deadheading, whatever. But as far as the soil goes, you don't really have to do anything to the soil. We are team. Don't touch. Once your garden is established. I am team dump as much compost as you can. You should get that on a T-shirt. So we don't, we don't, we don't use the synthetic fertilizers. We don't use chemical. We don't use herbicide pesticide, but we use organic fertilizer and compost because we want our flowers to be super, super happy and super strong. That's very important to me. And even on a flower border to, you know, my Hollyhock, not Hollyhock. Yeah. My Hollyhock, my everything. People asking like, Crain, how come your flowers are so big, so tall, so strong, you know, as compost. And I, I, I am trying not to use them as much, but, you know, and this spring is coming. I'm like thinking again, maybe should I buy more? So maybe you guys can, you know, convince me to slow it down a little bit. That will be helpful to actually. Well, to, to counter that, speaking of compost, when you, do you cut down in the autumn or in the spring? Typically your perennials spring. Okay. Do you, do you then clean the flower beds? Do you take away all of the leaves, all of the little stems that fell, you know, is it, is it completely. Clean once you've, once you've cut everything back, or do you. No, because we run out of time. Yeah. I mean, we, we clean up a little bit, but not, I don't think it's the extent you guys do, but no, I think less than yours. Yeah. We clean up. We leave the leaves in the garden, you know, like, you know, we don't, we don't clean the leaves out of the garden and stuff like that. So we'll leave some stuff down that just, just to help break down and go into the garden. But we do collect a lot and we do have compost bins in the, in the back. So we do create our own compost. Quite a bit. And then we, we get some mushroom compost delivered every year too. We believe in compost. We leave the leaves and just take the, the big stems off that needs to, to go, but otherwise we just. And, and I think that'll help with, with, with feeling the need to add so much compost and mulch because we, we leave the leaves, the trees that have fallen all autumn and winter in the garden from the neighbors and whatever those leaves stay. When we cut back our perennials, we don't clean them up. So if I was to take you outside right now, they look messy in a way, but then they're also covered with those leaves. And that's, what's going to break down and, and keep feeding those perennials. We do. However here, once we start seeing the new growth right about now, we'll put out some organic chicken manure. So quite similar. We do put some of the compost. We do our own compost, but probably not the right way, but whatever we do it the best we can. And we do, we do put that out, but we don't add any like, cause also we feel like going and buying like a bunch of new soil, like to improve the top or like a top mulch. I think it's way too expensive to do that. I, I think just use what you have in the garden. Maybe, you know, it's outside. I think, I think it's come down to what, what soil do you have? You know, some people have very poor soil. Then you need a lot of compost. I think we, I'm just not confident enough. To let go of the compost, but I'll try. I think maybe I should try this spring and let's see what happens. Yeah. If you know, it's true though, what you say about the soil, what if it's clay or if it's sandy or really rich, nutritious soil. So that really makes a difference. Also, if what kind of soil. One of the, one of the biggest things to, to remember, and I know you guys do, but for anyone else who's still watching this long into the video, if you're bringing up the, If the fields are growing, then you really don't need to do anything. If they're not growing, that's when you need to soil. Does that make sense? If, if everything was growing in this year, then I'll grow fine next year. Because the chances of them having eaten everything out of that soil, then the chances of your soil being so low in something in one season is, isn't quite that high. So if stuff is growing, stuff will grow. And if it's not, then of course you need to get your soil tested and see if it's nitrogen, phosphate, whatever. it is that you're missing. But um, I think you're exactly right, Crane. I think a layer of compost is always beneficial. I think some organic chicken manure, or the mushroom compost, I think this is always welcomed. It'll never really hurt anything. And it can really only help. So we're definitely team almost dump compost over everything and team also not so. But I also think that a lot of people are like afraid of, oh, my plants are not doing too well. We have to nourish them with a bunch of mulch every year. And I don't believe that you need to do that every year. If your plants aren't doing well, it could be a lot of things. It could be the water. It could be the sun. It could be the yeah, obviously the soil. So compost might not always be the answer. Maybe something else. That's what we think. So we kind of agree again. We kind of agree. Yep. And then maybe we'll try like a little experiment this year. We'll designate a part of the garden. We won't compost and see what happens. Maybe not as much as I used to, you know. I actually have one question, if I may ask. What do you feel about watering? I know you have annuals, like I'm just curious to hear how much do you water in like summer and like your thought about watering during a season, especially for a cottage garden? I think for a cottage garden, you don't need to water. I mean, not so much. We're pretty lucky we get a lot of rain here in New Jersey. But last couple of years, we have drought. So that's when you have to water. Cut flower is different story. And also, I think it depends on what kind of cottage garden you have too. If you have a lot of exotic plants, then you're going to need a lot of, you know, water. If you have a lot of annuals, you're going to need a lot of water. But if you have perennials, like you guys, you know, a deep, deep, deep mulch should be enough. And I did that before until I start growing cut flowers. That's when I have to like, no, they are demanding. They need water and everything else. Maybe that's where the compost comes in too. Like, we'll do compost and then also some mulch, wood chips, leaf mulch and stuff. And that'll, yeah, I think like our hydrangeas and all of our shrubs and perennial plants, they don't get water at all. Really? I mean, if we have a drought and they dry out a little bit and we don't get as much flowers that year, then that's, you know. Yeah. A lot of people ask me, Crenn, how come your hydrangea is so beautiful, so big, so large? You know, it's because when I planted them, I did like three times, like very, very big hole. I dumped all the compost in that hole, then put the hydrangeas on top of it. So I think that's helped a lot. And then mulch, probably like almost one foot. But I agree though. And also when we did our flower beds, definitely also the middle flower bed. Once your perennials, not talking so much about the annuals, but the perennials, once they are established, even one season, two seasons, then you don't need to water so much because plants are super clever. They will go where the water is. But if you just keep watering like a little bit every day, the roots will just stay on top and just like, I'm getting water. So it's really, it's better like watering like once a week or not even once a week, depending on if it's super hot spot. That's better though. Yeah. And we're also quite blessed here in Denmark. It rains. I know I say it a lot, but it rains a lot, a lot, even in the summer. So we're, we're, we're not the same. What zone are you in? We're in Europe. They don't use the same USDA zones, but we think it's equivalent to zone 8a because we're on the coast. Like the beach is literally right over there. So we get a lot of sort of that warm, moist air off of the ocean. So inside of Denmark and in North Denmark, you get a lot more, yeah, a lot colder temperatures than you do here on the, on the East coast. But it'd be like a zone 8a, but yeah. So I think we kind of agree on, I think we kind of agree on a lot of things, guys. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. And that's so different. I think we can stay friends. The debate was a bust. Well, the debate was a bust. Well, hopefully everybody watching, I mean, I, I think this is about, you know, gardening community. We, we, we were pretty flexible and every gardeners are flexible and compromisable. Is that the right word? Yeah. Yeah. But I think different things work for different people in different areas and different, you know, what works for us might not work for somebody else. So it's hard to debate and stay like, Oh, you have to do this. You know, like, I think it's also about gardeners personality too, you know, like we, we are. Yeah. We're, we're, we're gardening, we're learning, we're learning from our mistakes. So it's, that's kind of, I think that's part of the process. It's hard to debate. Sharing and getting tips and ideas from other people and, Oh, maybe we could do that too. And our garden, I think it's really great. Just sharing your thoughts about a garden might be Well, then it was worth it. Exactly. And hopefully everybody who was watching with us also got to take away a few things and, and if not, maybe if you don't know Cranery Garden, then you're really missing out. So please go like, and subscribe, follow them as well as on Instagram. You're, you're really doing, you're killing it on Instagram. Beautiful. Um, yeah, I slowed down on Instagram a little bit. I, you know, I'm more on YouTube now and my YouTube channel is Cranery Gardens. Um, my content is pretty casual. Um, you know, not more instructional because I, you already see, I'm like, I can't, I can't really like instruct anybody, but, um, yeah, welcome to my channel. If you are interested to see, you know, beautiful flowers with a lot of compost, you know, dandelion, some lawn. And it's well worth, it's well worth watching. So thank you guys so much for hanging out with us this evening here in Denmark and this afternoon there in New Jersey. Thank you. Thank you. And we'll follow you and see what's growing in your garden. So thanks so much. Thank you. Bye. Bye-bye.