What’s Holding Up LA Housing? One Builder Mapped It | John Gregorchuk

Los Angeles needs to build a lot of buildings, especially after the fires. What's the process to get a building permit issued? That eight-unit project took us over 30 months to go from permit submission to permit approval. Our guest today is John Gregorchuk, who's a small developer started from building ADUs to now bigger buildings. He's here to tell us what he is going through to get permits for his building and how it took three months to get a permit for just one tree. He's going to walk us through the process. I'm Siamak Warami. Welcome to California Insider. John, it's great to have you on. Welcome. Thank you for having me. You're a developer in LA, and after the fires, a lot of people are wondering, what's the process for rebuilding? You're a small developer. You've been trying to build in LA. Can you tell us about yourself and what is it like to build in LA? I'd say, I tell people I'm just a regular guy. I did grow up, my dad was a builder, but I took a regular career job working in corporate life, and I ended up buying a home and building ADUs in the backyard and just saving my money. Eventually got to the point where a lot of my friends were moving out of the state. They couldn't afford housing. And so I said, I really enjoy building homes. My dad is a builder. So I kind of have, through osmosis, learned a little bit of the trade. And I jumped full-time into real estate development, building actual apartment buildings in 2014. And so for me, what I've seen is just coming at it from an outsider. I'm seeing there's a lot of process in the city of Los Angeles that really doesn't need to be there. And so I spend most of my days just shaking my head in disbelief at what is being required, what is being asked for, and going over what it takes to build a home in the city of Los Angeles. What was your first project like? My first project was, I saved up all my money. I lived at home and I bought the scariest house in a rough neighborhood. And my first project was bribing my friends with pizza and soda to help me paint the house and fix it up. And I saved enough money and I had all my friends. We all lived together and we were all roommates. And the market improved that I was able to get a construction loan and build my first accessory dwelling unit in 2016 in Los Angeles. And so that was a four-bedroom, two-bath, 1200-square-foot accessory dwelling unit, ground-up construction, right in my backyard. After that, I kind of kept following the refinance and keep buying single-family homes and building ADUs. And so after that, I did the same thing. I bought a single-family home. I moved into it with some friends again and then saved up money. In about a year, I was able to have enough money to convert the garage into an accessory dwelling unit. So in that case, I did what they call a garage conversion accessory dwelling unit. That completed in 2018. And my wife and I, we got married and we moved right into that ADU. So that was my second project. It was a two-bedroom, two-bath, 780-square-foot, just very modest accessory dwelling unit. And then did you get into building after that? Yeah, so after that, I said, you know, this is really fun. My job was going really well. And what I did is I was hiring my family to kind of work as the contractors. And then I handled all the financing. And so the next thing I bought was a triplex where I fixed it up, fixed everything I could, and then converted the front unit into a four-bedroom instead of just a two-bedroom. And then I went from there. I convinced my family to go in on a project with me. And so we bought a piece of land in South LA and I designed an apartment building. And so this was my first apartment building. I thought I had the greatest idea. It's a small lot, but I figured out a way to fit 24 units on it. And as I went through the zoning and the planning and the permitting process, 24 units turned into 14, 14 units turned into 10, and ultimately 10 units turned into eight. And so while I was working my regular job, we broke ground and we finally got our permits for an eight-unit apartment building. And so that's my first step into like true multifamily development. And you have faced some difficulties in the permitting process. Can you tell us what's been like? So that eight-unit project took us over 30 months to go from permit submission to permit approval. For context, my dad was building in the early 2000s. He did a 21-unit building and that permit was approved in four months. The permit fee only cost $50,000, even though it was 21 units. In comparison, our permit took 30 months and cost $130,000 to get done. So the permitting process in the city of Los Angeles, and it sounds like for all of California, but I only know LA really, the permitting process is just getting out of hand. Currently, we're finishing up that eight-unit project and I secured entitlements for the next project, 59 units in the San Fernando Valley. And the process has been mind-blowing. I thought it was tough with eight units. When you jump up to 59 units that have an affordable housing component and all these different issues, it really becomes a totally different mess to deal with. In this process, was there a point where you thought you may not get the permit? Yeah. So with the eight-unit, it really just felt like as long as we kept banging on the door, eventually it would open. With our newest project, which is 59 units, it really was uncertain. So my father actually started the process back in 2014. So now we're over 10 years later. We didn't get our approvals until 2024. And so it took 10 years just to get entitlement approvals. And now my plan was, I thought, you know what? Now that we have entitlements, we should be able to get our permit within a year. And it's now May. In about five days, we hit a full year of our permits and we still do not have our permits for this project. Tell us about the process. You got involved with this bigger development. Now it's a serious development project. You have 59 units. What was this about? How did it start? We started about 10 years ago. In 2014, we purchased the property. In the city of Los Angeles, properties all have special zonings. But then within a property, you can also get slices cut out of your property that have parking zonings. And so in the past, you couldn't build on parking. So when we first started, the first task was to take a commercial lot that had the parking lot zoned as parking and convert that strip of parking to the commercial zoning. In the past, this was a very easy task. The problem is in the city of Los Angeles, if you do a zone change, you have to get neighborhood approval on whatever project follows. And so when we came to just do a simple zone change to get rid of the strip of parking so we could build on it, neighborhood groups, the NIMBY groups, we call them, came out in force and came up with their own ideas for what should happen to the project. And so we went through about eight years of trying to negotiate with the neighbors, with the city council, trying to come up with something. We had neighbors who said the project doesn't have enough affordable housing. It needs more affordable housing. We had neighbors who said the project has too much affordable housing and it's going to hurt their neighborhood values. Other neighbors came and said, well, it's already a hole in the ground because the previous developer had gone bankrupt in 2008. And they said, since there's already a hole, can you just build a community pool and donate that to the city? Part of the neighborhood complaints, people feel like since the developer needs their approval, they can negotiate and ask for whatever they want. So a neighbor came out and said that they were tired of commuting to their dental office and that our corner, where we planned to build 59 homes, would be best for his new dentist to move into. And so that neighbor wanted us to build a dental office so that he can have a dentist close to his home. And so we were going through years of these negotiations, really struggling to figure out how we can make this project happen. And eventually, the state and the city came out with what they call transit-oriented developments. And for a split second, we had enough bus routes in the nearby vicinity that we were able to get approval to build on the parking strip without having to do a zone change. And we quickly submitted. But that process took, I don't know, six years or so before that change happened. And so we submitted for approvals in 2020. We finally received our approvals in May of 2024. And that's just to say, OK, you're approved to build this. And now for the last year, part of my full-time job, now that I'm a full-time real estate developer, has been getting those permits. And so that's where it's been eye-opening for me to see just exactly how the process works from an outside perspective. And every step of the way, I'm just, my mind is blown at what's being required in order to build a home in Los Angeles. California is not only setting trends in the U.S., but the whole world. We have some of the most and best products and best entrepreneurs across the globe. That's why we decided in California Insider to pick products that are made in California and let you know about them. Today, we want to highlight House of Coffee. This is a coffee shop and coffee producer in California that we actually interviewed on the show. So you combine that art and science. And so that way you get a consistent, like, really good cup of coffee. They're from San Francisco. They have a very important and amazing family legacy. Well, that's my father's roasting style for whatever, 30, 40 years that he's done. That started multiple generations ago in Middle East, and now it's in San Francisco. They sent their coffee to us. We tried it. It was amazing. You can try it using the California Insider, CA Insider promo code, and they'll give you a 10% off. Let us know what you think of their coffee. The way they roast it is unique. So that process, so you guys had this lot in 2014. That process of getting approval from the community wouldn't have worked, essentially, from what it looks like. You guys got a chance to apply in a different way because Correct. from what it seems like you were at it for six years, and you were not getting any results, right? Correct, correct. And then when you applied because the state is pushing for housing, then it took four years. Correct. And so the crazy part about that is the city of Los Angeles right now is very, very, very worried about lawsuits and appeals and the what-ifs if they approve a project. And so because we're right in the middle of the city, and we're building needed housing, our project should have been exempt from CEQA because it's what they consider infill housing and buy right housing. However, our city planner in the city of Los Angeles and the planning director were concerned that somebody might sue them or might delay the project. And so they preemptively required a CEQA review for us to build this project. And so for many people, CEQA can take way more time than it took for us. But our process was still, it took four years. So we had to do traffic studies. We had to do tribal consultations to make sure that if there are any artifacts or anything, that we have the right contacts in place to communicate and make sure things are covered. We had to do extra soils reports, extra analysis. We had to hire outside consultants to help with all the CEQA reviews. And so all of that takes time. And part of the problem, actually, I think it's one of the biggest problems, is if a neighbor doesn't like your project, it costs them $116 to appeal your project. So for $116, they can delay your project about a year in appeals for $116. If the city was to deny our project, it would cost us 100 times more. It would cost us $16,000 to appeal a denial. And so those appeal processes cost the city millions of dollars every single year. And so what they try to do is put developers through CEQA, or put developers through more hoops in hopes that they'll cut off the appeals and nobody will appeal a project. What's the next step for you guys? So now that we have our entitlements, now we're going for our permit. So this is where we go to the Los Angeles Department of Building and Safety. And this is just the beginning. Correct. Yeah. 10 years to get here. 10 years to just be told, okay, you can build some homes in the city of Los Angeles. And now we submit to the actual building department. So this is where the actual engineering happens. This is where the actual design of how do we make sure these units are accessible happens. This is where the fire department reviews, is this going to be safe for people? All of that happens after entitlements. And so we've been going through that process for about a year now. And the way that process works is you submit to the Los Angeles Department of Building and Safety. And they give you a checklist of all the different agencies and departments and what they call clearances you need before they can issue your building permit to actually break ground and start your project. In our case, we needed approvals from 10 different city departments. And that spanned 30 separate individual clearances that they call it. And so those clearances sometimes are separate permits. Sometimes they're just a checkbox. Sometimes they're just a series of letters or emails to get approval. But no one person at the city of Los Angeles can explain how to go from submitting at LADBS to getting your permit issued because that clearance process is so complicated that nobody knows what one department does or what another clearance team does. It's very frustrating as a applicant, as a builder trying to get your approval because you'll say, oh, thank you for this list of clearances. How do I get this one cleared? And the only answers you get are, oh, talk to this person. And that person will say, talk to this person. And that person will say, talk to this team. And you go round and round sending messages through their online portal where they take a week or two to respond to you each time until you finally get in front of the right team to get your clearances approved. And you made a diagram of this, right? Yes, yes. What made you do that? I was blown away by the process and that nobody could tell me how to get a single clearance. As you can see, the top section is going to be reserved for me. This is the applicant. This is your work as a developer. Correct. And then the bottom section in yellow is going to be all the different city agencies and different city responsibilities. Departments. Correct. So I was blown away at the TREE process. I could not believe how complicated it was. So I created this entire thing to really show everybody, is this really the process that LA uses for getting a TREE permit in order to build a project? So this is just for TREEs? This is just for one of those 30 clearances for the street tree. So if we were to zoom in to this section right here, you can see as an applicant, I submit my plans. They come down into a system called E-Plan. And the Los Angeles Department of Building and Safety will review and issue corrections. One thing you'll learn is that they always issue corrections. So you come up with a plan, you come here, you apply, and then they issue corrections, and then it goes back to you. Correct. So now we follow this line and we go up. We make our corrections. We resubmit. It goes into E-Plan. They review it. Hopefully everything's good because we address their corrections. Then the city will generate an invoice. For the eight unit, that invoice was $130,000. For this one, it's a lot more expensive, as you can imagine. We go up, we pay the invoice to start the process. And then we go back down. And then once we pay, then the city will look at it and say, these are your required clearances. So they'll give us a document and it'll say, you need these 30 clearances. In our case, it was 29. As we went through the process, they said, oh, you need one more. So now we have a total of 30. We have to review that checklist. And then once that checklist is created, this is where we see all the different documentation and all the different plans that we need to submit to the city. So we go back, we create even more plans, even more sheets to address all the different clearances. And we go down into the city clearance process. So if we look here, these are the city departments that we had to deal with. So there's about 10 of them here. Correct. Yes. And each department has their own process and their own procedures, their own teams. And sometimes they don't even like each other. So you can't get them to talk to each other. You as the applicant have to be the one to coordinate between these different teams. And so in this example, I'm looking at one clearance, which is from Los Angeles Bureau of Engineering. So that's all the way here on the left. And we jump down into Bureau of Engineering. And we see Bureau of Engineering has all of these separate clearances that we have to deal with. Now, this street tree falls under driveways, sidewalks, and curbs. Now, you'll notice there's a Department of Transportation. Department of Transportation has their own driveways, sidewalks, and curb approval. A lot of these, they have different conflicting departments. Correct. Yes. And so when we're trying to get this street tree, I was blown away at the level of bureaucracy in order to get one tree. And so I started drawing it because I thought I was losing it. Because I could not believe that a process could be this complicated for something. So when we follow this clearance, if we follow this line all the way around and we go back up to where it's my turn, I have to create all the plans, the documentation to showcase how we will comply with the sidewalk, curbs, and ramps. To do this one tree. To do this tree. To put this tree in place, right? Correct. To plant it. Correct. So I submit to the Bureau of Engineering. And that drops down in the Bureau of Engineering has their own system. Because every department has their own system in the city of Los Angeles. So I submit to their customer service request portal. And I drop my plans. And then the city reviews. They issue corrections because they always issue corrections. And then I go up. We make our corrections. We resubmit. And then we say, oh, we get our clearance, right? No. In this case, the correction was you need urban forestry division approval before we'll give you your clearance. So I said, how do I get that approval? I go up here. I create the documents that urban forestry has. They have their own process. Thankfully, it uses the same system because it's within the Bureau of Engineering. I submit a ticket. They review it. They issue corrections because they always issue corrections. And how long does it take this whole process of creating and getting the correction? Anywhere from a few days to a few weeks. When, depending on which department at the city you're working with, some are faster, some are slower. And unfortunately, when you submit to this customer service request portal, you get to ask one question at a time. And you cannot update or respond to your question until the city of Los Angeles replies back to you. So in this case, I had my request sitting for weeks. And the only option I had, because we don't have phone numbers and the in-person offices have been closed, is I could create a second ticket where I ask them to, hey, can someone make sure I submitted this right? I haven't heard anything. Or you can upload a new attachment. And so what I started doing was uploading an attachment that was a PDF. And all the PDF said was, please respond. And so after two weeks would go by, I'd upload my please respond PDF. So hopefully they would get some notice that there was a new document. And that new document would just say, please respond. So we went through Urban Forestry. Urban Forestry finally responds. And they tell me, you need a bond in order to get a street tree. So you need a surety bond. So if you're going to cut the sidewalk, if you're going to plant a tree, the roots might break the sidewalk or you might not finish the project. And so they ask you to get a surety bond to make sure that you finish the project. Which is that one tree. Just for one tree, correct. So we go, okay, tell me how to get a bond. So I go up here. The bond has their own process. They tell me, well, you have to email the bond guy. And I found this very confusing that we have systems and process for everything. But when it comes to the bond, they said, email this individual. So I do what they say. I emailed the individual. The individual reviewed it. He had corrections because they always have corrections. His correction said, you need to get a Bureau of Engineering A permit. An A permit is a type of permit for the sidewalk. So if you're redoing a sidewalk, it's called an A permit. So I continue down this process. So here is our A permit. I have to go up and prepare separate documentation for the A permit. I come down here, I submit it. And now we have a new system to submit for an A permit. So I submit it into the new system. The city of LA reviews. They issue corrections because they always issue corrections. Once I make those corrections, we come back around. Then the city, the Bureau of Engineering generated my invoice, which means now I have a permit. I come up here. I paid the invoice. That means I finally have my A permit issued. So I think this is great. I can now get my street tree permit. But no, if you follow this around, who asked for the A permit? It was the bond guy. So I come back here and that's one of my corrections to the bond guy. So I come down, I issue him. I say, hey, I have my A permit. He looks at me on the email. A week or two goes by. And he says, why are you emailing me? Your A permit has already been issued. So this is an email chain where he tells me to get an A permit. I get a permit. And then he replies back to me saying, what do you need me for? So I go, OK, I guess I'm approved. So I go here. I follow this all the way around. And I go, cool, I got my bond. Now I can go back to urban forestry and I can get my urban forestry approval. Well, urban forestry said, no, you don't actually have a bond. The bond guy never gave you a bond. And I said, but he said, I'm good to go. He said, I have my A permit. What more do I need? Urban forestry didn't know what to do at that point. Because urban forestry is their own team. And the bond is their own team. And the Bureau of Engineering is their own team. And nobody talks to each other. So they said, I don't know. So I said, well, you know, I'll just go all the way around. And I'll come back to Bureau of Engineering. And I'll tell the Bureau, hey, I went through all of these steps. And I got my A permit. Can you please issue my clearance? Bureau of Engineering looked at everything. And they said, we need a letter from urban forestry saying that you're good to go before we can issue your clearance for driveways, sidewalks and curbs. So before I could get that one clearance out of 30, I had to get a letter back from urban forestry. But urban forestry didn't know how I could get a bond. And the bond guy didn't know what was required because he said I already had my A permit issued. So I essentially went through this process. And I drew all of this out so that the team could see, here's what you had me go through. This is what I've done. Where in the process is the miscommunication? And that's where another one of my 30 clearances also needed a surety bond. And they sent me a piece of paper that said, here's your bond estimate. And that was the trigger word. Bond estimate was a trigger word that I needed to figure out that there was a separate team that just prepared the bond estimate for the street trees, which it's not you email the bond guy. This process here for the bond is actually a separate team. And finally, I got in front of that separate team and I went through their process. They took a look at my request for the bond and they said, OK, in order for us to prepare a bond, you need an A permit. And I said, oh, that's why he said I need an A permit. And I said, thank you. Here's my A permit. So I showed them the A permit. They said, oh, OK, now you need to select the option for street tree. And so I took screenshots and I showed them I don't have an option for street tree. They gave me instructions. It was very nice. And it had a screenshot of their system. And it said it showed a tick box for requesting a street tree on my end, on the consumer side, on the developer side. Those boxes don't exist. So it wasn't until I finally got them on the phone screen sharing that they said, oh, yeah, we hide that from the developers only. It's only the back end staff that can do that option. So, OK, fine. We finally got that figured out. I said, can you issue me the bond estimate now? They said, sure, but we need you to pay the preparation fee. So I had to pay a thousand dollars to prepare the bond estimate. It was just over a thousand dollars. And I got the bond estimate. I paid the fee. I said, OK, here's the money. We just want this tree. Here's your thousand dollars. Can I have my estimate? I come back a couple of weeks go by and I get it. I get a notice that a bond estimate has been prepared and it's ready to go. I open the bond estimate, which is what I need for my bond approval. I open it and I look at the math and I add it up and the math doesn't add up. So my my my bond is supposed to be just over a thousand dollars. And I I reply back asking, hey, can I get some clarification on this? And weeks go by while the person who sent me the bond estimate explains to me that they don't know the process and can't tell me why the price is what it is. And so what was the price? The the price I'll have to get back to you, because the exact numbers were, I think, nine hundred for the actual tree bond and then two hundred for like a contingency fee. And so it was just over eleven hundred dollars. But the bond came out to be a two thousand dollar bond. So with my frustration, I just sent an email back saying, how does nine hundred plus two hundred equal two thousand? And the response I got back from the city was, oh, for bond estimates, we round up to the next whole number. So at this point, I didn't know what to do. And I just started laughing because I could not believe I could not believe the absurdity that was like this gigantic process. And also to get to get so close to the end and have somebody who couldn't do basic addition tell me, tell me that that eleven hundred rounds up to two thousand dollars. But I didn't care. This is this is a large project. We're very close to getting our permit. So I said, OK, fine, I'll pay it. I'll get the bond. We'll we'll go through this process, this whole thing. I was so defeated. I said, I'll just pay it. I don't care that your math is not correct. I'll just pay it. They would not let me get the bond because they said the process at the city is changing. And so I went through all of this to get one tree. And we're finally we see the finish line and they say, oh, please wait a week or two. We're changing the process. And so after going through all of this again, I started in February. Now it's May. They're going through all of this. The Bureau of Engineering tells me we're no longer requiring bonds for street trees. And so. Flabbergasted, I said, OK, great, no more bond since I don't need a bond. Can you issue my clearance? Bureau of Engineering said, no, we can't till we get an approval from Urban Forestry. So I went back to Urban Forestry. Urban Forestry told me to wait two weeks. After two weeks, Urban Forestry says, oh, you no longer need this approval before you can get your building permit. So I went through all of this and I showed them this entire process to at the end be told, you know what, we're actually going to get rid of the bond. Oh, and even better, we're going to get rid of your Urban Forestry approval to issue your permit. And so it's now been almost three months. And instead of instead of issuing my permit for my street tree, they've decided to just wipe you all out. And they told me, come back at the end of your project and then we'll give you a permit for your street tree. So to this day, I last week I received an email from Urban Forestry letting me know that they have sent a letter to the Bureau of Engineering, which is amazing that they're talking to each other, but they have sent a letter to the Bureau of Engineering, letting the Bureau of Engineering know that I have satisfied our street tree clearance so that the Bureau of Engineering can issue our clearance for sidewalks so that then we can then get our clearance and we can go back here and we can say one of 30 clearances has now been resolved. So thanks for sharing this with us. Now, let's go back and talk about how we can potentially fix this for developers in L.A. Yes. Because you had a different experience in another county, right? I sure did. Yes. So, John, do you think they're changing this process? Yeah, so I think L.A. in general is seeing that the process across the board is broken and things are getting improved incrementally, which is a really good thing for building in Los Angeles. This process to remove the bond and remove the tree clearance is brand new. It just came out. I don't know if the frustration that I experienced is why this was changed or if there's folks behind the scenes changing it at the same time. But either way, it's incredibly encouraging to see that there is movement to cut some of the red tape. And you had experience in other counties, right? In Los Angeles, we have a lot of systems and you send in your message into the portal and you wait. Sometimes it's fast. Sometimes it's weeks. But you don't know who you're talking to and you don't get a response. I'm considering projects in Ventura County now, and I reached out to a city in Ventura County. And within a couple hours, I got a response from the planning director who not only read my email and cared about it, actually researched the site that I was interested in and provided me three options that he thought would allow me to do the project that I wanted to do. This is in a matter of hours. And so for me as a builder in Los Angeles, I feel like I'm just getting beat up left and right. And when I sent the email to the county and that city in Ventura County, I was blown away by the customer service. It was a collaborative experience to see, oh, that's what you want to do. Here are ways that you can do it. Here's how we can help. Here are the different people in our city who you can call or email or go into the office and talk to who will explain the process and help you do and build homes in our city. Now, what do you think LA needs to do to help you guys? To be honest, I think Los Angeles has a culture of fear when it comes to approving projects. And so our planner faced this where they were scared of the lawsuit because anybody can file an appeal for $116 or sue the city if they approve a project. And so I think the number one thing that the city could do is really take on a culture of collaboration with builders to say, hey, you guys build the homes we need. What's getting in your way? How can we remove that? What is important? What's not important? And right now, I think process has taken over and people don't understand that first principle of why does this even exist? And instead, it's just been a snowball of added bureaucracy, added clearances, added approvals where people don't know why they exist, but they're too afraid to make a decision that would move them away. So the processes are there, but people really don't know why these processes are there and why they have to go through this. That's been my experience. And it's been frustrating for me. But yeah, that's been my experience. And I think it doesn't take money. It doesn't take a new piece of software. It really doesn't take much. It takes leadership in the city celebrating the people who take risks to build homes. It takes the leadership in the city demanding accountability for the different teams that approve these homes. So that's the planning department that improves the entitlements, but it's also the Department of Building and Safety that approves and issues the building permits. But it's also all of those sub teams that we looked at in that flowchart. There needs to be a culture of let's get homes built, not a culture of let's do whatever it takes to cover ourselves so that we don't get in trouble. And somebody probably has to do a bigger chart and track other developers that are going through this process to see what the whole thing looks like, right? Correct. So the chart that we looked at was one clearance out of 30 for us, to be honest, a small project. 59 units is the biggest I've ever done, but it's small for what a lot of builders in the city are doing. And so we have builders who are doing 200, 500 unit projects. And these are amazing buildings with amazing amenities. But I can only imagine how many years they sit in the planning process and in the permit process waiting to get their approvals as they slowly inch closer and closer, checking off one clearance at a time. And does this increase your costs, too? Do you think it's contributing to the high cost of housing, just sitting and waiting? Definitely. There's the actual costs that are very easy to see. The holding costs of the land, the property tax, the security. Those costs are easy to calculate, easy to see. I would say the hidden cost is the length of time it takes to get a project approved adds a tremendous amount of risk to a project. And so investors, projects are funded by investors. And so when investors look at the city of Los Angeles and they see negativity towards future landlords or negativity towards developers or an uncertain approval process, they say, why would I want to invest my money in the city of Los Angeles when it might take five years to get approval when I can invest that money in Arizona or I can invest that money in Texas and I can build homes there? I think that's why a lot of people cite Austin. Austin saw a decrease in rents because in Texas, they allow builders to build very quickly compared to Los Angeles. And so builders flock there. They said the investor dollars went there and builders went there. John Gregorchuk, developer from L.A., it was great to have you on California Insider. Good luck with your project. Thank you so much for having me. We hope that this process has already changed. But what do you think of this process? Do you think the process being so complex has to do something with the L.A. residents not wanting the development and the culture should shift at the city and with the people? Let us know what you think. We read all of your emails and comments. You can email me at siamak at californianinsider.com. This is Siamak Khorrami with California Insider, and we'll see you next time.