A Conversation with Jermaine Johnson

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Yang Gang podcast. And here we have the charter member of the Yang Gang in South Carolina, Dr. Jermaine Johnson. Let's give him a round of applause. Yay! Scream for yourself, Jermaine. Yeah. Yeah. The one and only. Now, people, if you are only listening to this, you're not seeing the majesty of Jermaine Johnson in the flesh. He is a mountain of a man. He's the prince of a human being. It's a former professional basketball player. And I have to say, I have never felt cooler than walking the streets of South Carolina with Dr. Jermaine Johnson, because anyone who would see us first, they'd notice him. And then they'd notice the Asian fellow next to him. It was great. You're like a real life beacon, Jermaine. And you are a real life beacon of hope for the people of South Carolina because you're running for the state capitol. Yeah. In your district. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, I mean, I'm doing what I can do, man. I'm just trying to be I'm just trying to be the positive influence for my people, man. Well, so let's have your story start at the beginning because you have an incredible life story. It's inspirational. I don't think most people know enough about you. So let's let's take it back, Jermaine. You weren't born in South Carolina. You were born out West, right? Yeah, I was born in California. I was actually born in L.A. and, you know, born in the 80s, 1985. I'm not I don't think Zach can can think about that far back, you know? I was 87. But yeah. Yeah. So, you know, if anybody knows about what's going on in the 80s, man, I mean, it was it was bad. It was, you know, the crack epidemic was gangs. A lot of that stuff right there. A lot of that stuff was going on there. And, you know, my upbringing wasn't very wasn't very ideal. You know, we, you know, lived in those bad neighborhoods. Anybody knows about Nipsey Hussle? You know, that guy who wound up getting killed. That was actually my neighborhood. You know, so, you know, my people kind of grew up in that same place. I was born in Hollywood before Hollywood became actually its own city. And, you know, we kind of moved around a lot, you know, growing up. You know, a lot of my family members succumb to the crack epidemic. You know, I lost a brother who had actually ran away from home and he went back to Minnesota where his other twin brother was at. And the guy that actually helped him get back to Minnesota actually is the one who shot him in the back and killed him. You know, so, you know, I've had I've had some crazy things. Yeah, that's that's insane. How old were you when that happened? I was four. I was four when it happened. And I was in the craze. So the crazy thing about this is that's the first memory of my life. The first very memory of my life is is I remember my brother. He was getting he was getting disciplined by my dad for whatever reason. And then he I saw him leaving the house and like walking down the street into the sunset in California. That's the last time I ever saw him. How old was he? He was 17. Wow, that's terrible. And then so how did you find out about what happened to him? You were four years old. You know, like, how did you get that news? So I kind of grew up, you know, with the story, hearing it from my family, hearing from his twin brother, as in as recently as like last year, you know, I've been working on my second book and it's the book on my life. And in that book, you know, I was I was, you know, detailing my first memory. And I said, man, I need to get some more information on this situation. So I called my you know, my brother and he said, hey, you know, give me some information about who was the guy that killed him. You know what happened and all that. So my brother told me who the guy was. I found the guy on Facebook. I sent the guy a message on Facebook and the guy sent me his phone number. And I had a conversation with the guy who killed my brother. I take it he spent time in prison. Yeah, but he only spent about six years in prison. So when I when I looked him up on Facebook, I wanted to know like what, you know, did this guy did he repent? Did he did he change his life? Is he worthy of my forgiveness for what he did to my brother when he was, you know, when they were younger? So, you know, I looked him up and I sent him a couple of messages. And, you know, we got on the phone and, you know, I cried my eyes out, man. I mean, I cried and cried. I cried for about 20 minutes on that phone with the man who killed my brother, man. Like I just cried, you know, trying to ask him why what happened. And, you know, he gave me his own version of the story. And he told me, you know, if there's anything for any time, I want to talk to him about it or, you know, I want to just call him up and yell at him, say, please call me up, you know, talking to me about it, whatever you need to do. So, you know, but I mean, I needed that for myself or some closure for myself because I work every day in the community with people who have killed other people, you know, and I'm thinking, how can I work with these people and be a hypocrite but not work or talk to the guy who did that to me? You know, you know, a lot of people don't understand things until they come and hit them on the doorstep, you know. So what what an incredible arc of humanity that just the fact that you were working with people that had similar experiences on the other end and it drove you to that point. That's beautiful, Jermaine. I mean, that's the kind of thing that obviously, you know, most people hope they never have to experience. But but the fact that, you know, you actually spoke to your brother's killer, you know, and had that grace to be able to reach out in that way. It's beautiful, man. Yeah, it was tough. But, you know, it's just, you know, for myself and, you know, for everybody around me, I have to be an example for others. Well, you certainly are that. So after a very, very rough childhood in Los Angeles, it seems like you went through a lot of things between then and now being in South Carolina, a family man, kids and running for office. So what happened next? So we moved around a lot, you know, facing a lot of evictions. You know, we're kicked out of a lot of homes and places and we ended up living in motels. I lived in motels for most of my upbringing. I lived in a motel six. I haven't stayed in a motel six since we lived in one, because obviously I don't want to stay in one ever again, you know, because I lived in one. You know, so I went from I went from all of that going through the situation. This podcast is not sponsored by Motel six. Obviously, it's not. We stayed in a motel six for the campaign. Yeah. Darn you, Motel six for doing this to me. But anyway, I know I'm not that against motels. I mean, overexposure, I'll do, you know, like it. I'll tell you, and this is not going to be a great story for anyone. But when I was working in health care, I was stationed in Newark leading an implementation at the hospital there. And there was one restaurant at the Newark Hospital. It was IHOP. And so I was in IHOP just about every day. And IHOP is awesome. But I got really sick and tired of IHOP. So I'm just saying that you can be overexposed to anything. Motel six, IHOP, you know, it's not not a knock on those places. So sorry, I cut you off, Jermaine. Like, yeah, so you were moving around a lot with your family. Yeah. Yeah. Going to all the motels and things. And I was you know, I didn't have the grades my first year of high school to play basketball. So I was literally just at school. And because I didn't have the grades to play basketball, I just didn't like school anymore. So, you know, I was I was leaving and I was skipping school, skipping classes. And my grade point, I basically fell to a point eight GPA. You know, you know, it was just like I just didn't like anything that was going on because of my environment, because of my upbringing and things that I was going through. And I started doing all type of crazy stuff, just kind of acting out, you know. And but I ended up playing basketball for a traveling team and the traveling team coach said, listen, man, you've got some potential. You can do some great things. You know, my older brother had just failed. He had succumbed to some to some drugs addiction. And he and you know, the coach was saying, well, Jermaine, let's let's get you to prep school. So I ended up going to a prep school. Even though I messed up a couple of years in the prep school, I ended up graduating from Wichita and Pratt in Massachusetts. And that's how I got up in the New England area. And I can't stand the Bruins or the Pats or the Bills or any of them up there. So what what what year in high school was that? So I graduated from high school in 2004. No, but I meant like what year in high school when you went out to go out there. So, yeah, that's an interesting part of this is the fact that the year that I flew to JFK, New York, I literally flew to New York on the day the towers got hit. So I was on an airplane flying into JFK. I got there about six 50 a.m. And the towers got hit right after I left the city. So people were calling, calling me and thinking that it was my plane to actually hit, you know, hit the towers, you know. And it's by the time I got to my school, you know, people were running out of the building saying because I went to school in upstate New York. I was at Petrina Pauling. And when I and by the time I got there, people were running out of the building. So, oh, they just bombed the Pentagon and they just bombed this and bombed that. You know, I'm thinking like, well, what the heck is going on? You know, some of the students, their parents had just died in the in that accident in September 11th, man. So I will always remember September 11 because I was on an airplane that day. So you were where I mean, you'll never forget. I mean, obviously, we all remember where we were. 9-11, I was in New York, and I vividly remember just everyone walking north because wherever you were on the island of Manhattan, you were just walking away from downtown because of the wreckage and the smoke. And I knew it was dead silent. It was a beautiful day. But I just thousands of people just walking north. Yeah. So, I mean, of course, we all remember that day. Well, I read an article that was interesting where they said that coronavirus is the end of the post 9-11 era, where 9-11 defined a generation 19 years of conflict, but of being fixated on a particular set of issues. And they're saying that this now via this era is a new era. And I think that may be right, because it's certainly the case that the coronavirus crisis is going to be the defining crisis of this generation. And, you know, one thing that's wild, I mean, you know, we were joking about your age, Jermaine. You talk to people who are 16, 17, 18 years old who are not alive during 9-11 or someone who's like 20 and they were too young to have any understanding of what was going on. And that to anyone who is alive, then obviously is like, oh, my gosh, like, how do you not remember that? And now we're in the midst of this generational crisis that I think will end up defining our country for years and years to come. So so you had basketball talent in Los Angeles. Obviously, I mean, you must because, like, you know, these prep schools don't take like average athletes, honestly. You know, so so there was a sense that you might get it to get get a college scholarship. And it sounds like you went to multiple prep schools because you went to one in upstate New York and then one in in Boston. So were you recruited for basketball? Man, I was, man. I was actually numbers. I was ranked number 17 in the country in my position at one point. You know, remember Glenn Big Baby Davis? Yeah, I was. Yes, I was actually right ahead of him. Yeah, I was actually right ahead of him in high school in my position. So so so tell us about how you developed physically. Like how tall were you in ninth grade? Like when did and how tall are you now? Because a lot of people can't see you. And even if they can see you right now, you're just like a torso. So so how how big did you get? When, man, so going between my eighth grade and ninth grade year, I grew like three inches. And then between my my freshman and sophomore year, I grew like another four inches. So I was like six to six, three as a as a freshman in high school. And then all of a sudden, like between that year, I grew like another three or four inches, man. And I became like six, seven, like over the summer. So I was like, I was huge and I was like 230 pounds. So it was like I was bigger than everybody, man. I was just dominating. So was basketball the clear sport for you? Because I imagine if you're a six, seven, two, 30, some like football coaches are like, oh, yeah, come on in. They were drooling all over me, man. Like like football is what everybody wanted me to play. That's what I thought I was going to play because I'm just a big guy. I've always been a big guy. So football was actually my first sport. But the thing is, I was so big as a kid that, you know, I joined football to play with my friends, but my friends were a lot smaller than me. So they were in like the peewee and they put me in like like the junior stuff. So I'm like nine years old playing with like 16 year old teenagers. And when I go to practice, they're just tearing me up, man. They were like, they were hitting me so hard, man. And I'm like 16. Yeah, you're not right. Halfway through the season, halfway through the season, I got in trouble at school on purpose because I was hoping my parents were going to say, you know, you're off the team. But they didn't. They still try to make me go to practice. So at that point, I was like, man, listen, I just don't want to play anymore. I quit. So I didn't play football anymore until like my sophomore year of high school. I played for like one season. I still was like, man, at that point I was too tall and everybody was just diving at my knees. I'm like, man, I'm just I'm just done with this, man. This sport is for gladiators. So so when they did stick you on the football field as a high school sophomore, it sounds like what position they have you at? A defense in. That makes sense. Yeah, you'd have been a giant, man. And I was I was I was nasty, too. I'm saying I was good, man. I was good. I actually had about I had about four different colleges that would recruit me. I went to Texas A&M on an unofficial visit. I had Missouri talking to me. I had UMass. I had a matter of fact, when I got to college, the Saints came to one of my games and it was like, you know, they talk about me going to the combine, man. So I'll be like, you know, that's what they started. One of the ex basketball players. So you were six, seven to 30. And so when you talk about position, you're a power forward. Yeah, I'm powerful. Yeah. So when I went to college, I actually gained an additional 20 pounds. So I went up to 250. So and I was like, I had like seven percent body fat, man. So it was just like, oh, my God, this guy's a freaking beast. So did you get recruited straight out of prep school to Charleston? Or is there another step? Yeah, I got I got recruited. I was I was highly recruited. I was talked to by like Georgetown and Boston College. And like I said, A&M came up there for basketball. Also, I had Long Beach State, you know, New Mexico State. I had a lot of schools that were actually recruiting me to come play for their schools. But the thing is, so I'm going to tell you how Charleston got me. Charleston lied to me, man. But I mean, I love what they lied to me. So they got me on a visit and they told me, they said, listen, Jermaine, South Carolina is just like California. We have palm trees. We have beaches. We have beautiful weather. We have women. We have all this stuff. So they told me all this stuff to try to lure me down. That's the recruiting process, obviously. And I said, you know what? I'm coming. You know, I'm coming down here. Soon as I got down here, it was the biggest tropical storm in 2005. And I said, this is absolutely ridiculous. This isn't California, man. But, you know, that's how they got it. They lied to me, man. They sweetened the deal up. So you played against Seth Curry when you were there? I did play against Steph Curry, man. Yeah, yeah. How bad did he school you? Like what? Did you try and guard him? How'd that work? No. So you're talking about me guarding him. So if you look at the sports, I wish I had my hat with me. There's a Sports Illustrated issue. I've seen this photo. I want to put it up. We'll get it on this video if we can. Yeah, with me guarding Seth. And if you look, if you go back, that actual video clip is on YouTube. And he did not score on me on that play. And that game, we actually beat them. We actually beat them that game. So that was the year when they were going to beat Jerry West's record, his like all time record from like college wins or something. And Dick Vitale was at the game and Dick Vitale was calling the game and we beat them at the buzzer, man. We blocked his shot at the buzzer. Yeah. So we we whooped him, man. Two times that year. So then you have a different process down the stretch of your college career and wound up playing overseas. Is that right? Yeah. So I actually ended up graduating from College of Charleston and I got drafted in the sixth round of the NBA D League. So my my affiliate teams were the Sacramento Kings and New York Knicks. But before that, I worked out for like Houston. I was like, yeah, I worked over Houston for some scouts in Houston. And then I ended up playing for the Reno Bighorns for a little bit and they ended up going overseas. I had a guy who was who was has seen me play with some other NBA guys. And he called me and said, hey, man, listen, you know, we need somebody like you on my team down here in Mexico. So I end up going to play in Mexico and then it parlayed that into a six year career. So D League, Mexico, where else? Go ahead, like list the places. OK, so from Mexico, I went to Portugal and then Portugal. I went back to Mexico, then Brazil, then back to Mexico and then Canada and then back to Mexico. So tell us about that, because we all, you know, watch the NBA and you have these players playing. But then in these other environments, it's like a whole different journey. You know, it's like you're in a different culture. It's not like you're getting crazy luxury travel from game to game. You know, it's like a real personal adjustment as well as professional. On the one hand, I mean, you had to play a game you love as a living. And that's like everyone's dream. A lot of kids dream. I mean, certainly, you know, you dream of that, but it's not easy for sure. Yeah, it's a grind, man. It's a grind because you got to think out of the however many, you know, Division one, Division two colleges that there are in the NCAA. Like all the seniors are coming out saying, hey, I want to play professional basketball, too. So you got to think there's only so many jobs that you can have in the NBA. You know, he's got only so many positions you can play. Oh, yeah. Let's just do some NBA math. So it'll be fun. So you got 30 NBA teams, 15 players per roster. So that's 450 players in the world, essentially, on like NBA teams at any moment in time. And then you have two rounds of the NBA draft every year. So you have 60 draft picks and a significant proportion of them are international. Let's call it at this point. I'm going to say, I mean, there's a precise number. So I can edit this. Maybe you can be like, like a research person. So I can look up what the proportion is. But I'm going to say you are. Let's call it like 30 to 40 percent of them are non U.S. college players. And so you're you're looking at maybe 40 new NBA jobs for college players every year out of the hundreds of colleges in the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of players that are trying to get a job. Yeah. So being able to make a living for the NBA is international right now. Twenty five to 20. So 25 percent. What did you say? Twenty five percent of NBA players is international right now. Yeah. So if you. Yeah. So let's imagine. Yeah. So that's that. That was pretty much close to where I was imagining it. So what you did is obviously incredible high level stuff, Jermaine, where you played professional basketball for six years against, frankly, like, I mean, if you go to these leagues, it's probably like you must have been like 20, you know, in your mid to your mid 20s or something. A lot of these dudes were probably like grown men, you know. Oh, my God. They were grown. So, yeah, I went oh, I went to Brazil during the year that that that the lockout was going on, you know. So when the NBA lockout was happening. So all those guys were like over there, too. They were all in playing overseas ball during that lockout, man. And, you know, I had a member, Barbosa. Barbosa was in my league and Nene was in my league. And Rafael Erizo was on my team. So it was like it was like, man, all these dudes were like NBA stars. And it's like, gee, these guys are huge, man. So what was the best part of playing basketball overseas? And what was the worst part? So the best part for me was I learned I learned fluent Spanish. Yo hablo espanol, bien perfectito. Wow. Yeah, I learned I learned Spanish. So when I yeah, so when I learned Spanish, you know, I was that's something I now have on my resume and I now tell, you know, anybody like, hey, if I need if you need me to translate something, I can talk to people. But the worst part about all that stuff was literally the waiting every year for a call from your age to say, all right, I've got a new contract for you, because literally every year you have to wait. So you're going home and you know, you have to wait for NBA teams to to pick up their players so that everybody who doesn't make an NBA team goes to the top overseas team. And everybody who doesn't get the top player of the NBA from the overseas team, they get the next best player and the next best player, the next best player. So it's like a whole ranking system that goes down. So you're literally just waiting around unless you want to kind of undercut and say, hey, all right, well, I'll take a significantly less amount of money, you know, just so I can get on the team and sign this contract immediately. So it's that whole waiting game. I got tired of it, man. The year I finished was literally my best year playing in terms of statistic wise. But I was like, man, I'm just I'm Tom Todd. I'm going through this whole waiting around thing. I'm tired of all this mess. So I'm ready to come home. Well, so you came home and I guess around then it was 2011 or so. And then you somehow became Dr. Jermaine Johnson, which I assume must have happened. So so actually, I actually retired in 2015. I retired in 2015. But but during that time back in 2011, I went I said, you know what, man? Because I know basketball is going to come to an end. And I knew I was tired of that game already. I said, you know what, man, I'm going to I'm going to start going to school. So I started going to school while I was still playing basketball and I was, you know, taking online classes while I was still overseas. So there's actually pictures from my coach, my Canadian coach of me in the locker room doing homework. I was literally doing homework in the locker room before games, submitting assignments before games. I was dedicated, man. I said, I'm going to get this master's degree because I know basketball is coming to an end. And I said, you know what? Well, once I got my master's degree, I went home and participated in a graduation that went back overseas. And I said, you know what, man, I'm just going to continue on my education. I said, as long as I'm playing basketball, I might as well continue going to school. So I entered into another program so I can get my doctorate while I was still playing ball, too. Wow. So what did your what is your doctorate's doctorate in? It's in business administration. Doctor of business administration with a concentration on organization leadership. Good for you, Jermaine. So, you know, you better yourself the whole time. You know, even while you were you were balling out. So then when you came home, was that straight to South Carolina? And did you have like a relationship or, you know, a significant other bringing you back? Yeah. So, you know, by that time, when I went overseas that same year, around 2010 is actually July 2010 is when me and my then girlfriend became a couple. And when we became a couple, you know, it was just she was she wasn't coming over there overseas with me because she was actually going to school to get her her pharmaceutical degree. So she said that my wife was a doctor of pharmacy. And so when I so I was living in South Carolina. So when I came to South Carolina in 2004, I just never left. You know, I was during those summers, you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't even go home for Christmas. I didn't know there was no place to go for Christmas or Thanksgiving. I was in South Carolina that whole time in the dorm room. So I never left, man. I never left. When I came back to South Carolina after I retired, I came home to my wife. Oh, it's beautiful. And you now have three kids, is that right? I have three of them. Jermaine Junior, little Chloe, Noel and Kobe. Kobe Joseph, named after Kobe Bryant. Wow, that's incredible. Kobe certainly got some big shoes to fill with that name. I mean, like Kobe's better. Kobe better be good, good on the court. Yeah, Kobe. He has no choice. He has no choice, man. He has no choice. He better be the best at whatever he does, man. Hey, I have a dumb question is, but I think the average person I want to know is when you work out for an NBA team, what does that mean? Is it a physical, like actual workout or something? Schedule or you just balling around with some buddies and like. No, it's it's an actual workout. It's like a like an actual bench pressing workout. Yeah, no, it's like it's like it was that too. But it's a it's more like, all right, we're going to have you do some drills. It's like doing it in different drills, shooting drills, you know, pick and roll stuff, pick and pop, all that different type of basketball terminology stuff that you would do. And they're kind of evaluating you during your little workout session. So, you know, I did a lot of that stuff. I did a lot of work all the time. Yeah, I worked out with a lot of NBA guys, man. A lot of NBA guys before before James Harden became James Harden. I was working out with James Harden. Pre-Beard? Yeah, pre-Beard, man. Pre-Beard, him and Kevin Love and, you know, DeMar DeRozan, you know, and all those guys, man. Remember Taylor King from Duke? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I used to go hoop with all those guys, man. Wow. So you retired from basketball in 2015. You're in South Carolina. And how did you progress from returning to now running for office? Man, it was crazy, man. I was trying to figure out what was going on, what I was going to do after basketball. I was doing some marriage counseling with my pastor and my wife and my pastor, he actually decided to take me around. He just he kind of took an interest in me. And he took me around the city and said and showed me some of his businesses and said, Jermaine, listen, you can you know, you have all the potential in the world. You can be who you want to be. You could do what you want to do. And, you know, right when he said that, I literally feel like this light bulb went off in my head and I like, ding, you know, that light bulb. When they see the light bulb went off and that's when I got the idea to start my nonprofit organization. And after I started my nonprofit organization, it just kind of catapulted me into like everything else that I've been in. You know, I ended up doing some stuff in my community. And Representative Joe Neal, he actually saw me at one of these things, speaking to the sheriff's department. And he said, Jermaine, listen, you're the exact type of leader we need. You know, you're the future. And I love what you're talking about. And, you know, I'd like to talk to you about some things. And he became like a like a mentor for me. And, you know, from there, he became I became the first kind of recreation commissioner. I became part of Democratic Black Caucus. I became a Clyburn fellow. You know, I became part of the Richard County Democratic Party. You know, I got I got put on the position like right from there. Most importantly, you became campaign chair of the Yang Gang in South Carolina. That is the most important story, man. Yeah, that's what it was all leading up to. So we should talk about how we how we met. Yeah. And the fact that I show up in South Carolina and Jermaine's there and already working on our behalf, I was like, frankly, I was like, who the heck is this awesome guy? And like, is it too good to be true? I mean, that's really what I was thinking. Yeah, man, I was I was man, I was a die hard fan, man. So, you know, so with the stuff that I've been doing with my nonprofit, I was in workforce development and I was working for the people. So I was I was seeing the effects of automation before I even knew about Andrew, man. Like I was seeing the stuff I knew exactly what I was talking about. So when I was, you know, in my politics stuff, I was researching candidates to see who the heck I was going to support. And I came across Cory Booker and I was like, man, this guy, Cory Booker. I love the way he talks, man. He's awesome. Like the way he speak made me feel good, you know? So I was thinking, I said, but but who else does that, man? Donald Trump talks to his supporters the same way. And they may hear, you know, he speaks to their feelings and their emotions. And I was like, oh, man, I can't be like that. So I said, let me do some more research to actually look at the problems, you know, and I came across an Asian guy who wanted to give about a thousand dollars a month. And I was like, holy ----. I was like, oh, man, it's awesome. I say, let me see who this guy is. You know, let me look him up. This was 2018. Yeah. Was it? Yeah. Yeah. It's like 2018, man. And I and I looked I looked him up and I said, man, let me do some research on what he's talking about. You know, I read the book and everything. I was like, oh, my God. So I literally was started going to, you know, all those organizations. I just told you I'm a part of. I was going to every last one of them talking on your behalf. Like I was like, I was like, listen, you got to know what this guy, Andrew. He's awesome. Listen, have you heard of him? I was talking about everything he was talking about. I was telling everybody they were saying, Jermaine, listen, we can't go on the whole meeting talking about Andrew Yang. We can't do it. I was like, look, I don't think I'm kidding. This is incredible. So, yeah, you guys can tell why. I thought I was like, holy crap, this is too good to be true. Like you meet Jermaine and Jermaine knows everybody. Everyone likes him. Everyone admires him. And he'd already been doing groundwork on our behalf before our first trip to the state. So, you know, thank you for being such an incredible champion from literally before day one. Oh, absolutely. I mean, my thing was I wasn't going to work for a candidate that I didn't believe in, you know, and I believe I truly believe in you. That's why, you know, and I'm not even going to lie. Like I've got I had phone calls from other campaigns trying to steal me off, man. And I was like, and they were offering me a lot more money. I'm sure they were. Yang Yang knows it's like people were not on the Yang campaign for the Boku Bucks. So thank you for turning down the Bloomberg campaign. Not kidding. Back in the early days, man, it was like when I first saw you, I want to let you know that I was freaking starstruck, dude. Like I was like, holy crap. I was like, it's Zach. It's Andrew. Oh, my God. I was I was starstruck, dude. So, you know, when I gave you that bear hug, man, it was it was genuine, man. I honestly was like, listen, I will work for free. Like I was like, I don't care. That's why I was like I said, I need to to make this this this trip as memorable as possible for them, because I want them to know how much I care and how, you know, how dedicated to the movement I am. And Andrew, I want you to know, man, this is you almost got me in some trouble. How do I do that? I do. Yeah. So so, you know, Mayor Benjamin, right. So I was going to set up. I will set up a meet. Yeah, I will set up a meeting for you. Right. And you all had had canceled the first trip that you were coming to South Carolina and because you had it because you had a town hall set up. But no, but nobody told me that you had this town hall. So I was mad as hell. I was so mad. Oh, my God, because I had I was stalking the mayor saying, hey, I need you to meet this guy. And I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry I got you into trouble. I understood that after I found out it was a town hall. But, you know, the mayor literally changed his his scheduled plans to meet with you. Thank you for doing that. I confess that on the on the campaign, too, I confess I never had any idea what the like what was like. I mean, I got to say it was very odd running for president where you would be like shrug, OK, and then like you go someplace that don't go someplace. And then you find out that there are all these ripple effects. And, you know, and that's like a fairly normal dude. I'm just like, oh, gosh, like I feel terrible about that. So so thank you, man. And like, you know, I feel bad after the fact. I'm like, still probably not Paul Andrew. Well, I want to the hard thing. Screw this. Damn it, Zach. You got me in trouble, man. You're right, man. Yeah, it wasn't me. I'll say like one of the things we struggle with early on was like and this is a balance on any campaign, like managing the candidates time. And you have so many people with their hands in the pot. And like they're trying to you're trying to create great events. And as you're someone putting in political capital to make it happen. And if you don't communicate really, really well, as we learned, like someone like you, like sets up an awesome event and someone like me is out there canceling said event without even talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You jack me up, man. But yeah, I'm glad you all are friends now. And I'm glad we all recognize that it was not my fault. All right. So so so so two things I like. You know, I was a big wrestling fan growing up and there was like this wrestling named the one man gang. And that's what you remind me of, Jermaine. You were like a one man gang in South Carolina before you even got there. It was like six months, man. I was out here beating the streets. Yeah, you were you were a force of nature. The number two, one reason why I admire you so much. I was the not the I was an entrepreneurship coach for the NBA Players Association, like entrepreneurship seminar for several years. So I've met dozens of former ballplayers and I'm friendly with, you know, a number of former ballplayers, current ballplayers to some extent. And I have to say, after you meet a lot of former players, you actually feel a lot of sympathy for them. And it's not something that you expect, because obviously professional athletes like you are like demigods or full on gods, depending upon, you know, like their stature, even their physical stature. You know what I mean? Like like you get to play a game that people love for money in front of thousands of people. They know it's like a dream come true. But then when you meet the players, even NBA players, there are real, real problems trying to fashion a three dimensional life afterwards, where I actually ended up developing like sympathy. Yeah. We're pro athletes or former pro. You have no idea, man. You have no idea how many conversations I've had with like pro athletes and former pro athletes saying they envy me because I was able to find out who I was and what my passion was after basketball. You know, I've talked to a lot of those guys, man. They're like, Jermaine, like, listen, I'm so like, I don't know how you figure it out. Like all I've known for the past 25 years is basketball. And I don't know how to do anything else. You know, I've talked to so many of these guys, man. And I feel exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. It's one reason why why you're such an incredible role models that you discovered things that you cared about and wanted to work on even while you were playing ball. And obviously, when you were playing ball, like, you know, you wish you were in the NBA. But I have a feeling that that the fact that you were playing internationally almost gave you perspective to be like, all right, I have to figure out what I'm doing afterwards. I'm going to keep getting educated. I'm going to, you know, like study things that I'm excited about. Because these so these ballplayers I've met, to your point, it's like they've been playing ball their entire lives. They've been better than everyone else. Everyone has said, like, look, this is your thing. If you're an NBA player, you make millions of dollars. And so everyone overestimates how much money you made. All they do is they see the base value of the contract. What they don't realize is that 40 percent of it disappeared immediately to taxes and other whatever, like 6 percent went to the agent. You know, and then you have like all of your expenses, all the family members built up, you know, people. And then very, very hard to say no to folks. And this is something that a former ballplayer said to me that really hit me hard. He said that you're trained essentially to be Superman. And so when people come to you with stuff, you cannot say, I do not understand what you're talking about. You know, you essentially like pretend that you understand like all of these things. And so like people end up roping you into shitty investments. Like all these things because like, you know, you're not able to be like, look, I like actually have no familiarity with that, so I'm not going to invest in jack ----, which would be the right thing to do in many cases. But, you know, like the people that are handling their money sometimes don't have their best interests at heart and the rest of it. So I actually got filled with sympathy and compassion for these former ballplayers because they're coming out. And then people still think they're made of money forever. You know, it's like they go out there that everyone is like, yeah. It's like it's like they think that the money never ends. You know, it's like, oh, my God. Like, I'm no I'm not a professional. So you got to think about guys like remember Antoine Walker who played with the Celtics. So he made a hundred million dollars in his career. And then like years after he left the NBA because, you know, it couldn't get any more team. He ended up playing in the NBA D-League after that, trying to get back on, trying to make some more money because he went broke, man. It's like, come on, just people need to understand like this stuff. It doesn't last forever, man. It comes to an end one day. And if you're not smart about it, it can be gone in a blink of an eye. Yeah. So it's very, very hard for most anyone to make an adjustment of that magnitude. But I think it's even harder when you've been at the pinnacle of a highly visible profession and you're really young. You know, it's like, you know, because like you're emerging at this. You have to reinvent yourself at the age of 35 or whatever the heck it is, you know, and so that's something that I think you're like, it doesn't surprise me that other ballplayers have reached out to you because like you clearly found like a real direction and passion in work post your athletic career. Yeah. Yeah. I've been blessed to have done so, man. I saw so many people fail before me. And instead of looking at people that fail as like, oh, man, you need to get your stuff together. I look at it as a lesson, like, oh, man, like that could be me. You know, and then also a couple with my upbringing. No, I don't want to ever be homeless again. You know, I don't ever want to go through that ever again. So let's fix it. So this is in a way it's like we talk about humanity first, humanity forward, like being a ballplayer in some ways turns you into more of a machine than a human. Like, you know, you're like showing up being like, I just got to like, deliver this, measure my numbers, like get back in there and like get equipped and all these people are like treating you like a race car. They're like massaging you out there and everyone prizes you for particular qualities and not like the whole person. So, you know, like I because I'm a big sports fan, I guess most people sense that or know that. But but there is this part of me that that feels like like our sports system is like hyper capitalism to the, you know, like highest degree where it's like you have these essentially these warriors who are going to get paid millions of dollars to play sports in front of you and like you're not allowed to show weakness or vulnerability or like all of this stuff. And then we just exalt these qualities and these qualities are not the whole person like, you know, Jermaine, like there are these famous ballplayers that have vulnerabilities and anxieties. And I've met now dozens of them coming off the court. And it's very clear to me that many of them are struggling, will struggle like, you know, like they don't have oftentimes like the of the multidimensional development that would enable them to do what you've done, where you're and I have to say, if anyone has a chance to meet Jermaine, Jermaine's like almost evanescent, not psycho or like what's the word? Effervescent or like he almost like emanates energy. He he like he's I mean, he's one and a half to two times the size of a normal person, but he also has like, you know, that that kind of joy to him, that kind of humanity. But but it came through the fact that in my you know, from like you've had just incredibly adverse experiences that would have completely destroyed many, many people. And like, you know, you came through it. It's really just a beautiful story, man. Like, I see you as someone who could help lead not just the people of South Carolina, but this country and this world in the right direction. I feel very privileged to consider you a friend. And I feel very honored that you worked so hard on our behalf. Even before we met, I really appreciate that. I really, I really appreciate that, man. It is just I'm just so fortunate to be in, you know, in these spaces with, you know, people like you all. You know, it's just I was going through that Clyburn Fellowship this this past year. And, you know, I was on a panel, you know, representing the Yang campaign. And, you know, I was up there with all these, you know, astute individuals who've been doing stuff for forever. And this is what they, you know, were raised in. And, you know, politicians and things like that. And I'm just like they come to me and they're like, hey, Jermaine, can you give us your expertise? I'm like, man, I'm just happy to be up here with you. I'm just happy to be sitting next to you, man. Like y'all have no idea what it's like when you're going home and you're looking for you don't have no idea what you're going to eat. You know, your lights, you don't have no lights and you're eating frozen hot dogs on a candlestick. You know, you have no idea what it's like. I'm just grateful to be in the room. People like, you know, and you can ask a lot of the gang members on your Twitter. Like they'll say they'll say, man, Dr. Jermaine Johnson, when I met him, it was a whole different type of experience. Because people are coming up to me like, oh, my God, you're Dr. Jermaine Johnson. I'm like, oh, my God, is you like? Yeah, I know that that is actually a really quintessential Yang gang experience where there are there are like I'm just like, oh, my gosh, you're you know, you're divine together, you know, or like whatever. The person's like, yeah, it's key. So, you know, obviously we know each other, but you know, like but it is funny. It's like you feel like you know the person before you you've met them. Yeah. Yes, it's a great feeling, man. I'm just I'm just blessed and I'm happy and just ecstatic. Like, yeah, like I'm sweating over here sitting here talking to you. You know, so are you kidding me? I'm serious. I'm just because I know what my life could have been and I know what it is now. I'm just I'm just a humble and appreciative guy, man. I'm really appreciative. But my my man, let me go ahead and say his name now. So y'all remember Barrett? So Barrett? Oh, yeah, I love Barrett. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Barrett Barrett's actually in the office right now. So he's actually not a bad. So, yeah. Hey, Barrett. What's going on, brother? We missed you, too. So so Barrett Barrett has actually talked about how how humble I am because I don't talk about myself a lot. And I don't, you know, talk about the different things. I'm just I'm just happy to be here. Like, I'm happy to be here and to be doing what I'm doing. Well, Jermaine, tell us about the race you're in. You're running for state representative, the 80th district in South Carolina. And who's your opponent? You have only one opponent, right? I get that right. So at the last second, some Republican guy has jumped in the race. And we ain't going to talk about him because we're not concerned about that right now. We're about getting past the primary. So the primary, the individual I'm running against, his name is Jimmy Bales. Jimmy Bales has been in this seat for 20 plus years. And it's I mean, he did great back in the day. He was actually my my mother-in-law's principal at her high school. And so, I mean, that's that's how long he's been around in, you know, in these seats and things like that. He was a also a county council member in my in my county out here in my area. So, you know, like I say, he's been around forever. And in recent years, he hasn't been able to perform the way that, you know, he could because of health issues and concerns and things like that. So it's just time to pass the torch. And, you know, I appreciate everything he's done and, you know, and all that. But I just think it's time to move forward with new progressive ideas. I mean, you know, he can stay on as an advisor, but let's bring, you know, the wisdom along with some new youth and ideas. Well, certainly you have our full support and you're going to be an inspirational leader, public, private, personal for years to come. Thank you for believing in us and the campaign and being such a huge part of it. Yeah, it's been an awesome journey. And we're just getting started, brother. Yes, sir. Yeah, we're definitely getting started. Hey, Jermaine, just so people know, where can people go to donate? What's your website? They can go to johnson4sc.com and you can check out all my good stuff. I'm waiting for Zach and Andrew to come to South Carolina before I put some special stuff on my website. I'm waiting for y'all, man. Amen. So this is actually a question. So if you just Google Jermaine Johnson, do you come up or are there others? So there's another guy that plays soccer. I mean, Jermaine Johnson, you know, like I was like, I wonder, because, you know, that's a pretty common sounding name. But if you Google Jermaine Johnson and they put basketball in, like all of my stuff comes up, all of my pictures. I looked at your stats before this. You're not bad. You know, I'm pretty freaking out. Get out of here, man. I'm one of I'm one of I'm still one of the top guys that plays in my school's history, man. Whatever, man. Whatever. I believe it, man. They should bring you back. Have they already brought you back to speak? I mean, you'd be inspirational. Yeah, I've been I've been back a few times, man. I go down there every year for different things. The couple of the departments have reached out to me to come down there and speak and do some things, of course, on Twitter. Now they're all sharing all my content and liking everything and, you know, talking about me as like, you know, a really a real example of what you know, what your life could be if you work hard. So, well, you're a role model in so many ways, professional and personal. I can't wait to get down there and campaign with Jermaine. So what's the date on the primary? I might get moved back, obviously. Yeah, right now it's scheduled for June 9th, but it's it's possible that it can move back to like August or so. But right now it's scheduled for June 9th. We've got some good people that are going to be coming out there. Herb Bakari said he's going to get with you, man. Bakari told me the other day. He's like, yeah, I'll do some with Yang down in South Carolina for you, brother. So, yeah, we're talking about that. Yeah, I'm glad you're in touch with Bakari. He's a great guy. Yeah, like I'd love to do something with Bakari and you down there. Let's let's freaking make it happen. Yeah. All right, Jermaine, thank you for for everything and stay strong. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to live strong. And hold on, let me get it up. Live strong and prosper. Live long and prosper. But you got it. Maybe we could make it live strong and proper. I think it's a Lance Armstrong thing. I think that I think that ----'s taken. Nailed it. Yeah. Stick the basketball. Whatever. You are such an ass. You stick to politics, man. Oh, God. Yeah, I'll do so. You and you, you stick to running long shots. Well, I'll tell you what, I have a feeling I have a feeling Jermaine is going to be one for one in his race is pretty soon, which is going to be a better record than the rest of us. So we'll be asking you. That's true, man. We are all for one. We got redemption coming up, man. Let me ask you, what's going on 24? But yeah, I mean, shoot, man, you got to look around. Like we just got to help get people through this time. You know, I mean, we got a long way between now and 24. We got to just help people. And then we got to get Trump out of there. I mean, this is such a disaster. I get so angry right now. You not only don't have a national approach to getting PPE in the people's hands, but you have states fighting against each other and then the federal government outbidding people and then playing favors with life's life saving equipment. The whole thing is is ******* awful. So, yeah, we just got to beat that, dude. Yeah, but it kind of makes you look like a prophet now because I mean, it wasn't automation, but it was a pandemic that happened. And now we see what, you know, the UBI's potential is and what it's for. I got to say, I must have been the only presidential candidate in the field that actually referenced the Spanish flu of 1918 in my speech over and over again. Like that would be like, oh, my God, it happened after. It's like, what the hell? So I've got so many compliments about you, like in the past month or so. I everybody has been reaching out to me like, man, your guy, your boy was right. Your boy. I was like, you're the only presidential candidate to ever run and then get cooler after. Yeah, after after he's actually you literally have gotten more famous after you dropped out. That doesn't seem to have happened. I mean, I've been in my home for most of it, so I can't confirm. We haven't got to do or or deny. But it certainly does seem like the Yang gang is is stronger now than even it was. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy, man. Yeah, yeah. So enjoy your newfound fame and all the other cool stuff being going to Madison Square Garden and getting put up on jumbotrons and things like that. Yeah, that's some funny ----. So remember, we know who he was in Charleston. Remember the guy? The guy Charles was like, who are you running for president of Charleston? President? What? Yeah. Yeah. He said, are you running for president of Charleston? That was it. You know what's funny, too, is the president of College of Charleston is a Chinese guy. Yeah. All right, guys, that was tremendous. Jermaine, I appreciate the hell out of you and look forward to hopefully getting down there and campaigning for you in person. Man, I love y'all fellas.