Garage 66 Podcast | EP #1 From Karting to F1 with Liam Lawson.

I found out that he just thought I was average. Did you go, my goodness, I went hard out against Alonso? Not really, honestly. After what seemed like Formula 1's longest and most public audition, Liam Lawson is on the grid for 2025. Because everybody was doing it and I was like, that's a stupid game. Could you have become an Irish dancer? No. Now in our first Garage 66 podcast, we talk to Liam about his competition on the F1 grid. It was like right before qualifying as well, it was on the day of qualifying. If they respect me or they don't respect me, I don't really care. And he shares his incredible journey from Pukekohe in a broken down cart to being Max Verstappen's teammate at Red Bull Racing. You know, this is my one opportunity. I think we all know what I did in Mexico. Welcome to Red Bull Racing. If you love cars and you love motorsport, Garage 66 is where it all comes together with a good Kiwi chat. I'm Sean Summerfield and this is Garage 66. It's my first ever podcast. This is the first one? Yep. Cool. Well Liam, welcome to Garage 66. It's not a bad wee setting, is it? It's always cool, yeah, always cool to have a garage. At least my dream as far as a lot of people have the same dream of having a garage full of race cars. So yeah, it's cool. It's nice to be in here. Man, what a world it's been for you the last couple of months. I've got to know when that bombshell dropped. How far ahead did you know? I mean, to be honest, I've known about... Obviously, we all knew that the Constructors was getting very tight early on in the season and that it was going to be close towards the end of the year. And obviously, that's the team's priority, honestly. So I was obviously sitting back as reserve at that point. But we were doing little evaluations along the way with Red Bull as they always like to evaluate us. And I would say when I got in the car in Austin, I knew that obviously I was being judged. But I knew that at that time, it felt like a very small chance that there was potentially an option for a Red Bull seat. But honestly, at that time, I was just wanting an A seat. I just wanted to do enough to stay in the championship and be racing this year. But as I did those races, basically every weekend, it just got a bit more talked about. I got more information and I would say the last couple of races, I knew that there was a good possibility there. How bloody good would you be at Polkadot? I know, honestly, that's something that you don't really... Because you're a smiley guy. I know. And you get like, as drivers, we do all this preparation and training and to be the best driver possible. You don't really think about the media side and that side of it as a driver. But you're doing 50-odd interviews over a race weekend and you're asked the same question. And for me, I was asked the same question so many times. And I feel like I answered in a truthful way because I didn't know what was going to happen as much as I knew that there was a chance that there was a seat. But I really did only get told after the race weekend in Abu Dhabi. Why do you think you got the seat? I think, I mean, I would like to say it's because they, obviously, Red Bull believe in me. But I think it's a number of things. And over the years, I was tested last year, the year before last year, so 2023. And then, obviously, 2024. And they were five and six race stints. They were never, at the end of the season, back end, where most of the drivers have done, they've all done the full season. They're well into the groove. And for me, it was new tracks trying to catch up to everybody, I guess. And I guess maybe they felt like the potential was higher with more time. I think there's simulator work in there. There's dealing with the pressures of being a Formula One driver. I don't know. There's, I think there's a lot of things. It was an awesome soap opera. Yeah. I mean, it was like, I guess, watching, I suppose, some weird X-Factor sort of thing. And all the speculation of, will they go for this? You know, the big backing, someone like Perez has got, Yuki's got, the Honda, all this stuff people are thinking about, the future of the team and power units, all these things going on. And I mean, it was, there was a lot of energy. I mean, it seemed like we probably saw more of it in New Zealand. But probably half of the talk was about, because it was really the only big seat left. What was it like being in the middle of that? It was tricky, honestly, because I knew what was going on. The thing is, in Formula One, it changes every weekend. If I believed everything I got told, or if everything I got told over a season actually happened, it would be an entirely different grid. It would be an entirely different team than what it is right now. But things change every weekend. And so I knew what was going on. I tried to obviously block it out. But I also knew that all I brought to the table was me. You know, a lot of these other guys to bring in, whether it's money or bringing a sponsor or something like that. And so that's why, for me, every race and qualifying and basically every time I got in the car, I knew that the only thing that was going to get me a seat or get me that seat was going to be what I did in the car. And that's all I really bring to the table. So I just tried to maximise every lap I did. So when you first get the call from Christian, can you remember exactly that moment? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What you felt? So I knew that they were having a meeting on the Monday after the race, that basically the big bosses from Red Bull were going to get together. And I knew that the decision was going to be made. So it was Monday after Abu Dhabi. I'd just done the Grand Prix. And normally we don't train too hard on a Monday, but I just couldn't sit still. So I went to the gym with my trainer. And basically, it was halfway through the session that I got a text from Christian, and he'd just come out of the meeting and basically gave me a heads up and said, you know, all good. So I knew then, but then he called me that night and, you know, welcome to Red Bull Racing, was the one-liner, which was obviously something we all dream about hearing. So that was very cool. But it was the Monday evening after the race. And when you heard those words, what was your head like? I was just, yeah, just happy, relief, you know, excitement. It was the realisation of, you know, every year, the last two years, especially, I've gone into the season with no real long-term plan. I didn't know where it was going to end up, especially last year. Honestly, it was really hard. The rollercoaster of emotions, you know, throughout the year. Saying, we're talking about how things change quickly in Formula 1, you know, throughout last year, there was one weekend where I was looking real good for the seat and one weekend where I wasn't looking so good. And I was reserved. I couldn't really do anything. I was just watching the races. So I'm trying to prove myself, but there's no real way to do it. And there was times through last year where I wasn't sure what was going to happen. So, yeah, it's just that realisation of I'm going into my first full season. I've got a seat. I've got, you know, I'm working with the best team. The opportunity is just bigger than it's ever been for me. So it's exciting. No, I know that when you rang your dad, when you found out it took a while, then he sort of broke down. Yeah. What was it like? You've been back home over Christmas. What was the reaction like when you actually saw your parents? It's been very cool, honestly, to be home with everybody. Just to be in New Zealand as well, I would say, you know, I felt throughout the last 12 months, even when I was overseas, I could feel just by the messages and things and sort of things I was being sent by my parents and knowing that the support from home was really, really big. Even at races, like the last couple of races I did, there's New Zealand flags in the grandstands, which is really, really cool. So to come home to see everybody, it's been really, really cool. And I would say everybody's been very, very supportive. I can feel the excitement as well. Everybody's just really excited. Contrast that with some of the reaction that you had over different times from whether it was a Yuki fan or a Perez fan or whatever, especially when you raced hard against Perez. There's some pretty aggressive social media. I know sports people say they don't look at it, but sometimes it's hard not to see it. How did you find that? What was that like for you? It's just something I learned very quickly. I think you learn very quickly that you're never going to have everybody like you. And I'm completely OK with that. And certain things, it feels like a very sensitive world. You've got to be careful what we do. And for sure, there's things that I'm going to learn from and things that I did over those five races, mistakes in the car, out of the car, things that are all part of the process that I've learned. But one thing I did learn along the way was that basically the reaction from the public is not always going to be positive. And to be honest, I learned pretty quickly just to not read it. So it goes both ways. I try not to read the negative but also not the positive. I just don't really dive too deeply into it unless it's somebody I know. So yeah, I think it's part of it. We have enough to think about, really, that it's pretty easy for me to just switch my mindset off whatever that is and onto something that's actually quite useful because we have quite a lot of work to do. You've got to probe. You said some things out of the car that you learned from. What are the things that we won't see from you again? I probably won't. In the car and outside of the car, I would say it's stuff we all know what I did in Mexico and stuff like that, which in the moment, you always feel like you make a decision in the moment. And I think it's important to just obviously afterwards realize. And obviously, that wasn't my finest moment. I'm not just going to get out of his way. What the f*** is he doing? I'll learn from that. But then there's just, as a driver, you make mistakes along the way. In a race or in a session. And it's always things that you can improve on. What has the reaction been like in the paddock and from the other drivers when the announcement is made? Because we obviously see what's in the media as fans. What's been the reaction like from those in the inner circle of Formula 1? I would say it's been pretty positive from my side, at least. I've had a lot of really supportive messages. And then inside the paddock, I'd say mostly the team. Both VCARB and Red Bull Racing have been very, very supportive through the process. For me initially going into VCARB, getting ready for those races, the team worked completely overtime for me to be ready for those races. And that's ultimately what's helped me get the seat at Red Bull. And now transitioning, it's just everybody's very supportive, which is really cool. The drivers as well. Obviously, I haven't been in very long, but I would say everybody's pretty supportive, unless it's somebody I've crashed into or raced hard with. Everybody's been pretty good. Let's talk about the racing hard, because I've known you a long time and you're a nice bloke. But on the track, you can race hard, but you seem to take it to a new level this year. Whether it's Hamilton, Perez, you didn't mind who you go up against. Was it a conscious thing to really take it to them? Did you know who you're fighting with? Yes, but I would say, honestly, I didn't race anybody in a specific way because of who they were. Like I raced everybody the same. I didn't expect the... I guess it felt like we almost were expected to race certain drivers differently or that... I don't know. For me, I just raced everybody the same and I didn't think anything else of it. For me, I feel like I've raced how I always have. But ultimately, I had six races and I knew I had six races to prove myself. I don't think it was... I didn't go out and race overly aggressively just to try and prove something. I just left everything out there, honestly, as I always have. Along the way, there was one or two times where it ended in an incident, which obviously I'll learn from. Ultimately, I would say most of the time, it ended up in a win situation for me. I don't think I'm going to change that approach. After a race, did you go, my goodness, I went hard out against Alonso? Not really, honestly. That race specifically, I don't even remember it being that... Honestly, it wasn't even that aggressive. We didn't touch. He didn't go off the track or anything. I don't know why he was so angry. Honestly, it was so long ago. As drivers, in the moment, you get upset, you move on, and I think it was forgotten about straight away. To look back on it, I don't remember it being in an overly aggressive way. Do you think you've earned your stripes, though, in respect of the other drivers ready to go this season? Or there's still a bit of rookie there? To be honest, it's not really something that's... If they respect me or they don't respect me, I don't really care. I would say I'm here to do a job, and I've got goals that I'm trying to achieve. I know what I'm in for. I know how tough it's going to be this season, but whether drivers respect me or not is up to them. Everybody has their opinion, but for me, I'm just focused on doing the best job I can. I know going into this year, there's a lot of tracks I haven't done. Very much, it feels like a rookie season. It's my first full season in the way that's Melbourne, China, Miami. These are all tracks where I've not raced, and they're all coming up at the start. It's going to be very, very tough. It's such a different Formula One now. I remember going to the first race. It's full of purists watching. You go now, and Melbourne last year, you were there with the team. The drivers arrived to screaming 13 and 14-year-old girls. It's like the Beatles arriving at the track, and that's the drive to survive phenomenon. You've come in at an interesting time in Formula One. Do you think it's made it harder for you that there's so much more attention, or is that just your generation? I think it's definitely different, and it's something that, as you said, has come from drive to survive, and it's come in the last five years, and especially now more than ever. It doesn't change so much the approach to a race weekend and to how we drive and to how we prepare and things like that, but it definitely changes, I would say, what happens outside of the car and the way that social media maybe perceives us as drivers. It puts us in a slightly different light than maybe 10, 20 years ago. I almost feel like sometimes we're looked at not so much as athletes, but as celebrities or that kind of, I don't know what the word is, but that kind of position. Maybe it's just changed the way that the sport is viewed a little bit, but honestly, ultimately, as drivers, we very much keep to the same structure of preparing for a race. I don't think too much on that side has changed. I was just thinking, I said before a bit of a fairy tale that you had when you came in at Zandvoort and then the race in Singapore, just amazing. If I had to contrast, this year was probably a bit more like Hunger Games in some ways, sort of what you had to go through. If we talked at 17 and you imagined what Formula 1 was going to be like, how different is the reality for you? I would say it's more fast-paced than I realized. I think we do 24 weekends in a year. I haven't done the 24, but even in the six that I did, you spend a lot of time preparing for a race, and then the race is done, and you're on to the next one, and you're doing that same process over and over and over and over, and you just don't have time to dwell and think about things. Whether it's been a good race or a bad race, it honestly doesn't matter. What's important is how you switch to the next one and just extract everything out of every session. It's just fast-paced. I think the rest of it is more or less expected. I knew how the sport was coming in because I've been more or less around it in the last five years, so I knew that there was going to be a lot of eyes, a lot of media, a lot of pressure and attention on us, but then there's just working with the team, which is another thing, working with a team that is so much bigger than any other championship that I've raced in and realistically that exists in the world. It's a couple of thousand people working to make two cars go as fast as they can. It's quite crazy. I want you, if you can, to take us back to 2023, Singapore. You've had that amazing qualifying, beyond what anyone expected. Fifteen seconds from lights out, you're about to race in the humidity with the walls, your folks are there. What's going through your head as you get ready to start a race like that? I would say that weekend was really tough in its own way. I'd been told on the Saturday, so I'd been told right before the qualifying session, that I wasn't going to be a full-time driver the next year. That was something that was quite tough to think about. Especially, it was right before qualifying as well. It was on the day of qualifying and I got told. Ultimately, I knew going into those races, it was an opportunity. I knew that I was only there because Daniel had broken his wrist. I also was like, this is my one opportunity to show what I'm like in a Formula One car and ultimately have a seat in the future. That's what I was focused on. I got the news in Singapore right before qualifying, you're not going to be a full-time driver. Did that make you quicker? I think it made me do something because it was obviously a good weekend. It also put a shadow over everything. Honestly, that wasn't so nice because my parents were there, everybody was there. The media had no idea. I'd just gone and made my first Q3. I then went on to score points in the race. It was awesome, but I knew in the back of my mind, it almost felt like it didn't matter. The team was so happy and everybody in the paddock is like, oh, you're going to be... A lot of the interviews were, this surely puts you in a good step for a full-time seat. I had to lie and say, I hope so, that's great, but I knew in the back of my mind, I wasn't getting it. How many in the team knew that you weren't getting it at that stage? My engineer, I told, but it wasn't public. Honestly, it was my parents, my engineer, the team principals, but that was it. It seems at this level, the highs are phenomenal. It's like a bubble though that can be burst in a moment. How did you pick yourself up after that? It's part of what I learned going in is how fast-paced it is. At that point, I knew I had Japan coming up. I didn't know about Qatar, but I knew that I got one, maybe two races left, that I just need to do the best job I can. It's my only shot in Formula 1. I think maybe also I enjoyed it a little bit more. Maybe it took a little bit of the unknown away because I knew, hey, now it's not going to happen, that maybe I could just enjoy it a little bit more. Japan for me was actually almost a better weekend in terms of, I feel like the race was maybe even better from my side, even though we didn't score points. It was just something that I had to get over pretty quickly and realize, hey, I got two more, one or two more to make the most of. I want to talk about Japan because it was a good race with Yuki. First time we saw you on Drive to Survive, you were hanging out with him. Sweet as. Yes, sweet as. Perfect. Good. Sweet as. Are you guys mates, can I ask? Yes. For sure, outside of the car, he's somebody I've known for a long time now since we were both in our first year as junior drivers. It was both of our first years in 2019. He's a really good guy and I have a great relationship with him. Ultimately, you're competitors, especially in the last couple of races this year, we're fighting for potentially the same seat and ultimately our careers. It's tough to keep that kind of relationship or at least I find it difficult to do that, even with most drivers because at the end of the day, you're racing for your career, especially when you're early on. For me, maybe it's different, I can't speak for the guys who have been in Formula One for five, six, seven years, but when you're coming in and you're trying to prove yourself, every single position and piece of lap time makes a difference. As long as you're not crashing any people, maybe you can be mates with them, but it's a tricky balance. I'd say we have a good relationship, but obviously we're competitors as well. I'm absolutely knackered. So tired. Yeah, well done. Nice. Like proper Kiwi, yeah, tired. Good. Who is your best mate on the grid? Honestly, I'd say Yuki I have a very good relationship with. Daniel, I had a really good relationship as well before he stepped back. Alex, I have history with in DTM and then Oscar as well. He's a really genuine guy and I raced him closely in F3 and F2. So it's cool. There's guys that I've raced with in the past that I'm racing with again. There's obviously new guys I'm racing with and guys that I used to look up to that I'm racing with as well. So it's cool. Not going to pick on the fact that you used to look up to, but I know what you mean. You're now racing against him. I want to touch on something then because you talk about, I guess that you do wear your heart on your sleeve a bit, you're passionate about what you do. I remember a few years back, you were back for a break to Europe and Hampton Downs and we put you in a Lamborghini out on the track and then on the skid pan and you were just fizzing about doing it. Now, a lot of race drivers go, oh yeah, it's not a race car. It's not. You were actually genuinely excited. You've driven faster cars. Have you still got some of that in you? For sure. I'm a car person and I have been since, not just a car person, but mainly a car person since I was born. Since I was a kid, it's what drove me to watching the racing and being a fan of the sport and what's got me into go-kart racing and put me on this path. I'll always be a car person, so sitting in a garage like this around race cars and really cool cars, it's my dream to have something like this one day. I think, yeah, that's not so much ever going to change. I think with some drivers, maybe their passion is just racing specific and racing cars, but for me, it's also road car thing even with personal cars in my life that I have and modify and things like that. It's just a passion that I have that maybe I have more than other people. Let's talk about the go-kart thing. Obviously, everyone's parents probably hopes they've discovered the XA from the centre when they're getting a go-kart, but how did the go-kart thing happen? We know about the pathway, we know you struggle with machinery and you've got it right, but how did the go-kart thing actually happen? I was in preschool, I was really young and I watched motorsport, my dad was watching supercars, he was watching F1, but we were very close family friends with a family that had a son that was the same age as me. We became mates in preschool and we both were always trying to get on the bikes and the stuff at preschool. Then when we started school, he got into go-kart racing because of his dad, because his dad raced speedway and raced other things and that's what got him into it. We went and watched him and that's what basically set the whole, that's what gave me and my dad, because I watched him race a go-kart and I was like, dad, I have to do this, this is totally what I want to do. The coolest part is that best friend I had in preschool is Matthew Payne and he's obviously racing supercars now and we've stayed mates obviously our whole life. It's cool to have two guys who start from a very, very young age and we race, we battled through every single category in go-karts at the front racing. One would win one weekend, the next would win the next and obviously I'm going to argue I won more. It's cool to have two guys succeed in their own different directions as well, because obviously he's killing it in supercars. I have to ask, if it wasn't for the karts, could you have become an Irish dancer? No. Because that was a family sport, wasn't it? I think as much as my sisters did it and I probably attempted it one or two times when I was young, I don't think it would have been something I would have. For me, it's got to be something with an engine. If it wasn't cars, it would be dirt bikes or something like that. The reason I ask that is because your sister's national champs. Yeah, they were. The Lawson family are big on success. Let's talk about the karting. When did it go from being a hobby with your mates to, gosh, this is my potential career? Well, you touched on the starting out with bad gear. It was basically that first year and a half of karting or year or so that I was just running around the back, trying to convince my dad to get better gear, better engines. Is it true he thought it wasn't the gear? He did. He did think it wasn't the gear. I didn't know this. As a kid, dad would be like, you know, I know Liam, I know you. One day we'll get a better engine and stuff like that. I found out that he just thought I was average and thought his kid didn't have it. He obviously got sick of complaining because he bought these two really good engines. We went to this big event and bolted them on for qualifying and qualified pole. I would say for us, for my dad, that was the moment where it became serious and not just a hobby. We started to obviously try and invest proper money into it. That said though, you're not from a super wealthy family. You're a normal Kiwi family. Motorsport is expensive. I remember our first meeting in 2016, Manfield, it was the Grand Prix. You'd been smashing Formula Ford, I think almost every race, probably setting records as well. I don't know if you remember why I actually spotted you. The helmet. Because you're wearing Kenny Smith's helmet. You're a little bit embarrassed. You said you heard growth spurt? Yeah, I remember all of it though because I remember you gave me the interview as well. At that point, not really many people cared too much, but you guys interviewed me. At the time, that was a really big deal for me. Can I tell you some truth about that? I was working for Three News at the time. I was there to cover the Grand Prix. I called up the producer and said, hey, I've just talked to this kid, Liam Lawson. He's a bit of a freak in Formula Ford. You got to trust me. I did the first story on Shane Van Gisburg. I know when someone's quick. Trust me. No, you're there for the Grand Prix. We don't want it. I said, but it's really cool. I mean, the kid's had a growth spurt. His helmet didn't fit him. He's borrowed Kenny Smith's helmet. This is amazing. So anyway, they said, no, we don't want it in the story. And I'm thinking, man, and you're a nice young kid. And I thought, what do I do? So I waited until I put it in the story, put the story together, and we didn't send the story back to Auckland until 6.30. So they didn't have time to see it. So you only made it on the news because I broke the rules. It was really cool. And that was how it happened. And I got my hand smacked the next day, but I talked to the producer a while ago and said, do you remember the time you didn't want that story? Yeah, exactly. I would love to know who that producer was. Because honestly, as well at the time, I remember that story was a big story because I remember the amount of people that even still talk about, oh, you used to use Kenny's helmet. And it was that story that gave that exposure. I thought the funny thing was, he didn't give you his helmet, he only loaned it to you. No, he loaned it to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't have that now. Trust me, he's got that at his workshop. But I saw him yesterday, two days ago, for the first time in a while, which was cool. Still racing. I think he always will be. And that's the thing, if you're watching, listening now, Kenny Smith, he's won the New Zealand Grand Prix three times. He's pretty much the oldest open wheel racer in the world. Into his 80s. He's phenomenal. He's phenomenal. Yeah. And he was a huge, huge fan of yours. So were a lot of people. But that said, you were again in no man's land when you went into the Toyota Racing Series. You'd gone away overseas, tried to do it. There was some frustration because you were too young the first time to do TRS. I want to talk about that, because if I look back at your career so far, and it's only early times, let's be honest, but 2019 Highlands, you turn up and I don't think you were considered the favourite. Arguably, Marcus Armstrong, Ferrari Junior, Lucas Auer was there. He's a Red Bull driver as well. Yep. And you're in the same team as them. You go out on the track and there was a bit of chaos, but you blew it away. This is brave racing. The Kiwis side by side as they come towards the line. Good on you. Lawson takes the line. They almost do a checkered finish, a photo finish as they cross the line. But look at this. Lawson's got the upper hand. This is going to end in tears. No, it doesn't. Lawson takes second place. That was brilliant racing, folks. What can you remember about that weekend? I remember it being, I remember it felt like I was going into a Formula One season because I'd watched TRS for so many years. When I was a kid, I was watching when Mitch and Nick and those guys were doing it. So in New Zealand, it felt like the elite, it felt like the Formula One of New Zealand and the cars looked like small Formula One cars. And so I wanted to do it for so long. And then doing Formula First, Formula Ford, you'd watch TRS every year. And it was just the coolest. It just felt something that I always wanted to do. And as you said, I was trying to do it in the year in 2018, started 2018, but I was too young. So I had to wait for the 2019 season. So I finally got in and yeah, Marcus was there as a Ferrari junior. Lucas, I mean, I was obsessed. Red Bull, since I was young, has been something, especially when I, that first year I went to Europe and saw the Red Bull juniors and I just thought that was the coolest thing. And he was my teammate. So I remember seeing his Red Bull helmet when I first walked in on the shelf and just being like, oh, Red Bull driver. But I don't remember feeling massive pressure. And I just remember going in and just being excited to be a part of it. I don't think I expected too much. I just went in there and was like, this is so cool. And yeah, it felt really comfortable. And that weekend ultimately kickstarted the rest of my career because we had had a Red Bull contract after the overtake. Yeah. Tell us about that. Well, it was a damp race. It was the third race of the weekend and it was the Dorothy Smith Memorial Race. So Kenny came to me before the race and obviously I already had the relationship with Kenny, but he said, I really want you to win this one. And I was starting third or I think I was third for the start of the race. And it was a wet start and I knew it was going to be difficult. But it was an important race for me just because of Kenny. And as the race went on, the track was starting to dry and there was little dry patches that were gaining bits of grip. And I felt quicker than Marcus at that point of the race and was trying to get past him, but he was defending. And there was this bit of dry track on one of the last corners that I felt on sort of one of the earlier laps. And so I waited for the position where I was closest to try and basically use it. Because I didn't want to use it and then show him that it was there and he started using it. So I went out there on that lap and basically it hooked up. And I remember getting alongside him and being on the outside and being like, well, what do I do now? I've got the rest of the overtake to do around the last corner. And so I just committed. And it's crazy because that move ultimately was a huge moment in my career. It set up a lot of things, but at the time it's just an overtake. You're just trying to overtake as we do so many times in racing. But yeah, it was obviously a big moment. Because Dr. Marco Red Bull's talent genius was watching because Lukas was racing and that overtake changed everything for you. Exactly. I mean, not many people can probably pick a moment that there was that pivotal, but there was that bit of dry track. That bit of dry track, yeah, that bit of dry track. And to be in New Zealand as well, in a championship that has done so well for so many drivers, not just me, but others, obviously, Mitch's car up there. Yeah, it's so cool that we have a series with that level in New Zealand that's kick-starting careers. You mentioned Mitch, the battle between him and Earl Bamber was amazing a few years before. But for me, the battle between you and Marcus Armstrong was for the ages. It was big, yeah. And Manfield was just so, so dramatic. I mean, how intense was that? You guys are teammates and it's all on and you've left Lukas behind. It's just you two fighting for the Grand Prix and the title. It was all or nothing. It was so cool because, look, if we took a step, not that I really did at the time because I was just in it, but now I can take a step back and think about it. It was the first time in a while that two New Zealanders were just basically leading the series and fighting for a title. It's been a while. The years before that, it was always international. And so it was just cool to have two Kiwis doing so well. But I remember it was just intense, so, so intense. The reverse grid race, the second race of the weekend, we were together in P7 and P8 and just every lap, back and forth, back and forth, swapping positions, trying to avoid other cars and just survive. And yeah, the race, the Grand Prix was just super intense the whole weekend was. But obviously a big moment for me. So Red Bull pick you up. I think some people at the time maybe said, look, they're pretty intense. They can be cutthroat, but I understand that that was what you were going to do. And you have talked about that, but what a run, F3, F2, DTM. I mean, you're unlucky not to take out that. It was an amazing season. Super Formula, very close in that as well. What's been your favourite year with Red Bull until this moment? I would say it's just, it's been very, very tough. I enjoyed DTM. I enjoyed the season a lot. Just hated the way it ended. And I think it sort of made me look at the whole series in a different way as well. It was pretty nice car, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. It felt very nice. As much as I love that style of racing, that for me was over the line. So I think, yeah, you know, there's been some pretty cool years. My first year was really hard, but drove some really cool cars, the Euro Formula and the older Formula 3 car. 2020 was COVID year in F3, if I F3, and I'd just gone high-tech, so I'd gone to a good team to fight at the front. And although 2020 was a horrible year, for racing, it was, we did, our full season was 11 weekends, was spread out over 11. It was nine race weekends over 11 weeks. So we did three on, one week off, three on, one week off, three on. And it was, you know, as a driver, you're just racing every single weekend. And that was quite cool. So, but Super Formula was probably the best, to be honest. Super Formula was an awesome car, really cool championship, really cool tracks. And, you know, probably also what made a good step at maybe Red Bull trusting me to drive a Formula 1 car. In the recent end of your test, you did quite a few laps. Just, can you just tell me, probably less than in a race, when you know you're having that big day, everyone might be sitting back and go, man, this is cool, this car's so fast. Do you ever get a chance to think that? For sure, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Not in a race weekend, but in a test, it was, you definitely have those moments. Abu Dhabi, I'd done three or four sessions, and at that point I'd looked at the lap, because we see everybody's laps, and I'd done the most. At that point, and I remember saying to my engineer, my goal for the day is to do the most laps out of anybody. So, I had like a 20-minute lunch and just got back in the car, because the tracks just open all day and you set out your own run plan. So, yeah, we did 160, maybe, something like that. It was 140 or 160. I think it was 160 laps around that number, which is nearly three, basically three Grand Prixs. It was brutal, but it was cool to do that many laps. Also, for me, because there's a thing that's being race fit. When you do the more races you do, the more race fit you get. So, we do all this training and stuff to be ready for it, but nothing gets you fit like race fit, like driving a race car. So, I was just in peak condition, end of the season, last race, smashed out the end of the year with 160 laps. Let's talk about 2025. How excited are you for the Australian Grand Prix? Very excited. Very aware that it's going to be really hard. I haven't driven the track before. I'd actually, I've driven a severe supercar. I did three laps last year with James Courtney. I saw his face, actually. That's my experience of Melbourne GP, but it's a cool track. Obviously, as far as we don't have a New Zealand race, it's the closest thing to a home Grand Prix. I'm just excited to be there, to race there. I've watched it for a long time as a kid. So, to go into my first Melbourne GP, it's pretty exciting. You haven't raced it, but I bet you know every corner inside out. It's the first race that comes up on the F1 video game, isn't it? I'm sure you've done plenty of laps. How do you see your role in the team this year? Because you only have to spend, you may not, but if I go on social media, everyone's got an idea of what your role in the team is going to be. How is it? Are you a deputy to max? How are you approaching your year? It's funny that everybody knows, because I don't even know. Ultimately, the team wants to win the Constructors' Championship and we all want to win a Drivers' Championship. But for me, I've got to be realistic and know that Melbourne, China, Miami, especially the start of the season, is going to be a big step for me. And a new team, a new car that I've not been very familiar with. So, it's going to be a big step for me. And being realistic, I know that I'm not expecting to just go in there and start winning races and things like that. So, for me, it's focusing on just doing the best job I can and supporting the team in the best job that they need me to. But at the same time, it's just driving the car as fast as I can, learning from the team, learning from max. And that's what's going to develop me the quickest as a driver and make me a better driver in the future. What's it going to be like when you see the car for this season with number 30 on it? Yeah, that's going to be very cool. Obviously, a number is every driver's sort of personality or it's their sort of signature. And in a lot of championships in F2 and other things, you don't get to run your number. So, coming into F1 to do that is pretty cool. To have it on a racing car is very, very cool. Look, this sort of seems surreal, even hearing the tone of your voice, but I'm sure you visualise things. Have you visualised the New Zealand flag on the F1 podium? Have you visualised the anthem at all? Yeah, of course. But I've done that since I was six, seven years old and watching Formula 1. Obviously, my goal is to win. We're all here for one reason and that's to win. And that's my goal in Formula 1 is to win world championships. And I want to do that as quickly as possible. But as I said, knowing the sort of season I'm stepping into and knowing how tough it's going to be, I know that it's going to be a lot of work to ever get to that point. And I need to make the most of having Max and having the team that I'm in and try and progress as quickly as I can. How bloody good is this? It's pretty cool. It is pretty cool. Five questions before we drop the chequered flag. Quickfire ones? See how we go. No race duties for a weekend. Where in the world would you like to be? New Zealand. Anywhere specific? I've just taken up golf. So, as in, I stayed clear of it for years because everybody was doing it and I was like, that's a stupid game. And now I'm just totally obsessed with it. So, Te Ari Links or Te Ariiti up north. I spent a bit of time there on this trip and it's very, very cool. So... What are you hitting? Not very well. Not even a number that I... Double figures? Double figures. Mate, it's okay if you're starting. Oh, it might be triple figures. It might be triple figures. To be honest, it could be triple figures. I've done four games in my life, but I hate being bad at stuff. So, honestly, every day I'm watching golf videos and just trying to get better. No driver diet. You can eat any meal? In-N-Out. It's an American fast food. Yeah, yeah. In-N-Outs. I've unfortunately... Spent a bit of time at In-N-Out. Yeah. Yeah. Any live concert? Who? It's tricky. I think something that would just be really cool to see live would be, or somebody that would be really cool to see live would be Rufus Dussault, probably, I would say. And I know this one, but I've got to ask it anyway. Favourite movie? Yeah, I can ask. It's just become the question. I know, I know. And it feels like it's getting abused, but honestly, it is a great movie, honestly. And I still watch it now. And I would say it's not the reason I'm in motorsport, but before I was go-kart racing, I watched it relentlessly. Every other day, honestly, I was watching it. So, yeah, it's a sick movie. That and Interstellar as well. It's a good movie. A bit of a contrast. Yeah, I know. Very big contrast there, but that one too. Hey, mate. Thanks for joining us on Garage 66, mate. Go well. Thanks for having me. Thanks very much. Cars is f***ing awesome. If you love cars like we do, why not subscribe to the Garage 66 podcast and to our YouTube channel, Guilt Trap TV.