‘He’s awful!’ Ex-Labour Adviser Slams Keir Starmer and Names Only Person Who Can Save the Party

Let's see what's in the papers. With former Conservative adviser Charlie Rowley and former Labour adviser Matthew Torbett. I was just looking about. No, I was thinking if we had a list. Have you got a list? I've got a list. Oh, well there you go. Because I was just busy looking about the thing. I don't know who's even starting on this. But it's Charlie. Is it? With Angela Rayner's new office. Well, yes. Exciting news. As the Deputy Prime Minister she has been able to carve out Newmark an office right in the heart of government in 70 Whitehall which is the Cabinet Office. Well, you'd think so. Well, she is the Deputy Prime Minister. My old haunt. Your old haunt. Yes, yes, yes. 70 Whitehall, Cabinet Office. I was there during Covid. Party days, those heady party days. Well, I haven't left anything nice for her in the drawers then. Well, by the looks of things she's had a complete refurb, new artwork. What sort of artwork has she chosen? It's a nice neon sign. What? A neon. Which says what? Which says, I think, we're always asking for questions or looking for the answers or something like that. Neon. Something modern. An answer is expected. An answer is expected. You can't really tell. It looks like that Tracey Emin thing at Liverpool. It's like a cocktail sign that you'd get over a cocktail bar or something like that, isn't it? Not what you'd expect but that's what Angela Rayner is all about. She obviously likes it. Be unexpected. And when she's declined. Well, they have an art advisor once you get an office there, don't you? An art advisor comes in and says, do you want an old master or do you want something from Tate Modern? Do you want something you can plug in? I mean, the government has an art collection. I've seen there's a bit of a nasty remark from reform saying she should get on with things rather than picking out art. Charlie will know from his time in government, every minister will pick what they want for their office. She has a nice one of the miners on strike, which is very much sort of striking accord with me. That's quite nice. The portraits of Margaret Thatcher got taken down. Well, honestly, you're standing almost far right adjacent there. The substance is that this is a power grab within Whitehall and she is plotting behind the scenes, no doubt, despite her protestations that she's not going to become prime minister or doesn't want it. She is gunning for it. I don't know if I believe that or not. I mean, it could well be true. But it's an easy thing to throw at her, isn't it? Yeah. I think the difficulty with this is, I mean, she'll be prime minister next year. I'm fairly certain of that. Do you think? Keir has to go. He's awful. He is terrible. He is. He is less popular than, I won't even say, actually. Than anyone you can think of, actually. Yes. No, no. I mean, that's the point, isn't it? And this is actually, my brother brought it up. He watches the news, but he's not as engaged politically as maybe me and Charlie. But he said that what he finds is people either are a bit ambivalent and they don't know what to make of Keir Starmer, maybe don't know what he stands for, or they go, I can't stand him. There's no real love or meeting in the middle with him. It's very bland. Yeah, but I think we'll lose Wales and Scotland next year. You've surely got to look at the writing on the wall and go, yeah, we're not going to win with you in charge. Now, whether we win with Angela Rayner is another story. Well, that's right. What do you think of Angela Rayner as a potential leader? Listen, I like Angela. I grew up on the same estate as Angela. I've known Angela many years. I don't think she does want it. I think she'll end up with it because the unions and other people around her will nudge her to do so. What about Streeting? He won't win with the membership. I think he's obviously a very... Mind you, he's in danger of losing his seat as well. He's got such a narrow majority. Yes, she is too. It's a reform. This is the problem. I think half the cabinet are at risk of losing their seat, but I think it will be, no doubt, a battle for the heart and soul of the Labour Party. I think the only one that could really save Labour is Andy Burnham because he's not tied to any of the unpopular decisions that we've made that weren't in the manifesto, and he's popular across all spectrums. He's a Blairite, though, and that doesn't go down very well with the rest of the party. No, but I'll tell you what, Angela Rayner would be more of a threat to Badernach, would she? Because she is... It's character politics, and whether you agree with her or like her or whatever, she's a character, and she makes Kemi Badernach look very bland. Well, I think whatever your politics, you can always respect somebody for having a view and a coherent plan and a coherent vision. So arguably, I would never support this, obviously, but under Angela Rayner, you will have a plan vision, which is to tax more, borrow more, spend more to fund public services, and there'll be a narrative as to why that's important. There's got a direction. There's a direction of travel, even though you can vote against it. But what you have under Keir Starmer, as I think Matthew was suggesting, is that you're told, on the one hand, we're not going to raise national insurance contributions, but you must read the small print and we go and do it. We're going to protect pensioners, then we take away their winter fuel. There's no direction of travel, there's no coherency, there's no plan, there's no strategy, and they're not doing the things that the public want. They're not doing things that even they said they were going to do. So there is a real rudderless sense of direction at the moment under Labour. So having someone that people can get behind because they can understand the vision is one thing. That galvanises support and your base, so that would play well to Angela Rayner. That's why Nigel Farage is doing so well, and that's why everyone else in the middle is treading water. Yeah, that's interesting. Matthew, in The Telegraph this morning, the civil service need more working class people in there, apparently. Yeah, I think, well, the working class are always forgotten in this country, unfortunately, and I think, actually, we've seen that because when they push back, you get things like Brexit and you'll get things like potentially a reformed government, and I think those that have ruled us for quite some time, which I would call the elite, I know it's somewhat of a popular term, but they are, certainly towards the upper end of the civil service, have misunderstood what is needed in this country. Well, they don't understand who lives in this country. Well, not exactly, and I think that's why there is an argument, whether it be targeted or otherwise, for more working class people in politics, in the civil service, and those that I think potentially have a real understanding of the policies they aim to pass, because it would have made, how would it have affected their mum and dad, because it would have done, compared to those where, you know, it might not have touched the sides for some of them. So I'm sort of tentatively for this, because the system that we've had for quite some time arguably hasn't worked for the majority of the country, I would say, and this is where we are now. We can see it from the way that people feel. Why not offer a bit of a change and offer, this is a sort of an element of DEI, I could certainly support, and I think we need, class is something we forget about when it comes to a thing like diversity. It's totally diversity of thought and class. Yeah, diversity of thought I think is important. I just think this is totally the wrong approach. You know, there is horses for courses, and different strokes for different folks, whichever we want to sort of badge it up in. It's nothing to do with class. I think there is absolutely an element of a lacking of diversity, of people from different backgrounds within the civil service. That's the fault of the civil service in the recruitment process. But do I want someone just plucked from a particular pool, drafting policy on something that is quite, you know, like the economy? You know, something that's quite important. Well, working class people don't understand the economy. But there is... Judge them on their class, judge them on their merit, surely. An understanding of... Only posh people understand the economy, Charlie. No, because you can be working class and go to... You never said that. Exactly. You can be working class, if that's how you describe yourself. You can go to university, you can get a degree in economics. You know, working class people do go to university as well, Stephen. I know, I did it. But that's part of this. So it's not about picking on people for being a particular background. It's getting the best people for the job. But the problem that we have in the civil service is the kinds of jobs. There are too many policy jobs. There are too many thinkers and not enough doers. And I want to see people that are able to do the operational things, the drivers, the people that actually get things done, rather than a group of people that like to sit around debating and groupthink. That is the difference. But those are the kinds of jobs that need to be created. It's not about class, it's about merit and getting the right people. I hear the argument, but it's the same argument we get when we talk about we want the best calibre of MPs. It always seems to be those that have already been on big salaries and know everything. And actually, I'd argue that working class people probably know how to budget better than most other people because they've always had to. That's the unfortunate reality for lots of people up and down the country. But this doesn't do anything to fix that. This is about graduates. We're not talking about people that have gone to university or haven't. This whole civil service is about people that are graduates anyway. You can only be from a working class background if you're a graduate. That is what's going to get you these internships and these summer placements. I think looking outside of university graduates wouldn't be a bad idea as well, actually. I agree on that. The idea that you will have had to have done the three years as well, you might already be gravitating towards a certain different type of class. And obviously, as said in the story, it's very tricky to describe class, especially if you're going off what your parents did at a certain age. Because what does that really mean in the grand scheme of things as well? It's a welcome idea and thought, and I don't know. Let's see if it bears fruit or not. Meanwhile, much more important is becoming a volunteer duck warden. Sorry, what? Charlie, what's going on? Well, we talked about Japanese walking, forgive me, earlier on. We're now talking about duck walking. So there are... Duck wardening. Duck wardens, yes. And it was National Yorkshire Day, wasn't it? It was, yes. Celebrating all the great things about Yorkshire. This, I'm afraid, whether you want to celebrate it or not, I think it's probably a bit low down the pecking order. Where there is a job for people who, volunteers, who escort these little ducks. But you know, that's true. If you live in the country, and I used to, and I had a duck pond in the front garden. I mean, a proper duck pond where ducks came and they had families. You'd start off and you'd think, oh, isn't it wonderful? You've got a family of about 11 little ducklings. Every night, the number count would go down by about, you know, one or two. No, no, it's fox hunting. Either foxes, yeah. Or cars, yeah. So it's very important because they like to go walking. Well, they do. And they've roosted in a car park in West Yorkshire, sorry, Thirsk in North Yorkshire. And so they've moved from the river to the car park. And there are wardens. Very nice. Well, I think that's very lovely. Sort of watch them. Watch them and escort them. And escort them. You see, I think that's really nice. It is, it's lovely. I think it's really British and lovely. Don't you, Matthew? Yeah, I reckon it's probably our job, though. I moved out to a sort of more rural area and there's a pond near us and there's loads of dogs. They leg it off. They're terrified of you. So they'll do well to get them in line, I think, about how these wardens go about it. But yeah, no, it's sweet. It's nice. I think they need to get out more. Oh, right. You're too mean.