Gina McCarthy, Mike Bloomberg, & Antha Williams Discuss Building a Clean Energy Economy

Thank you for joining us. I'm thrilled to be moderating today's conversation between Gina McCarthy, the White House National Climate Advisor, and Mike Bloomberg, the UN Secretary General's Special Envoy for Climate Ambition and Solutions and the founder of Bloomberg Philanthropies and Bloomberg LP. I'm Antha Williams. I oversee the Global Environment and Climate Programs at Bloomberg Philanthropies. Mike and Gina, thanks so much for making time for this conversation today. It's great to have you and it's timely. April is Earth Month, and this year it's especially exciting as the Biden-Harris administration is rolling out a new nationally determined contribution, the climate plan for the global community in advance of the COP26 in Glasgow. And it's a real opportunity to both build back better and address climate change at the exact same time. Next Thursday is Earth Day, and it's also the start of President Biden's Leaders' Summit on Climate, first of its kind. And that's where I want to begin today's conversation. So first, Gina, over to you. You traveled with the president to Pittsburgh for the announcement of the American Jobs Plan. What does the plan mean for the climate crisis? Well, first of all, let me thank you for letting me be on with Mayor Bloomberg. It's a terrific honor and it'll be so much fun. It always is when we get together. So thanks for that opportunity. You know, we went to Pittsburgh. I did go with the president and it was a terrific opportunity for the president to talk about his vision behind the American Jobs Act, the plan that he's put forward. First of all, when he was campaigning, he had a very strong climate plan, but it wasn't just a climate plan. It was a well thought out way in which we could move from the pandemic and through the rescue plan, take care of that challenge. But he knew we had multiple crises beyond that that needed to be addressed. And the American Jobs Plan is a great way to tackle this because it was about recognizing that we needed to grow millions of jobs because we've lost them during this pandemic. And we needed to rejuvenate our manufacturing sector. We needed to invest in homes and energy and our electric grid. We needed to get broadband all across the country. It was really a recognition that we're falling behind because we have not invested in infrastructure. And if you develop a plan like the American Jobs Plan that is designed to grow millions of jobs, but not just any, good paying middle class union jobs, and you marry that with the goal of really blooming an opportunity to grab the clean energy future here and bring jobs back here as a way to make sure that we're capturing the moment at the level it deserves, that's the American Jobs Plan. So when we went, we were surrounded by union leaders. We were surrounded by mayors like Mayor Peduto, who you know is a strong advocate on climate because he's working with all of his colleagues up and down in these states to be able to recognize that this is a moment in time where clean energy can be the future for us. And we can grab it back even in places like Pittsburgh. We are going to grow jobs. There is no question that we have to address climate, but also that if we address it the right way, we are going to grow really good union jobs and we're going to do it in a way that builds that clean energy economy and grabs back all those economic benefits of the future. And so it couldn't have been more fun, more exciting. I'm so excited to have this plan out because it's filled with great ideas that won't just capture what's going on in cities and states, that you have helped to actually rejuvenate and keep going at a time when we needed it most. But it's also going to look at how our country provides the kind of leadership we need at this point in time. And it meets the moment, and this moment is a big one of opportunity. Thanks for that, Gina. Mike, you have been a long time of the work that mayors and cities can do on climate change, but of course what the private sector can do as well. Bloomberg LP recently made a commitment to reach net zero emissions by 2025. I wonder if you could talk about what motivated that decision and how we can get other companies to make similar commitments. Well, Anthony, if you go back a little ways before we realized that the environment was starting to come apart, some genius had the idea that we could fix things if we got it done by 2050. And then ever since then, the numbers have come in worse and worse and worse. 2050 really should have become 2040. 2040 probably should be 2030. You just have to take a look at the forest fires and the floods and the changes in what the fishermen are catching and what the farmers can grow to realize that something is going on here and we don't have anything like the amount of time that we used to talk about. 2050 has been a very good number for people that want to give speeches because they say, well, we'll do it by 2050. And I don't know anybody who's given a speech or virtually nobody that's given a speech about climate change who's going to be alive in 2050. So it's very easy to promise something that you know you're not going to be around to deliver. And unfortunately, that takes away from the public's understanding that we have to do something right now. Now, there are people that know that and we are doing a lot thanks to your efforts and the other people at Bloomberg Philanthropies and the organizations that we have sponsored. We've closed 60% of all the coal-fired power plants in America, 50% of all the coal-fired power plants in Europe. Having said that, in Asia, China and India are still building lots of coal-fired power plants. Although I will say they've started to understand there's a problem, they just haven't been willing to stop and say, look, there's a price to pay and everybody's going to have to kick in and do without. Gina talked about jobs. I think that we certainly have a problem in the world and in the country of not enough jobs for a lot of people. A lot of the problems are the jobs that we have available. The public does not have the education needed to take those jobs and benefit from them. In the end, the job issue is really an education issue as far as I'm concerned. We should start kindergarten on up to dramatically improve our school system. In America, it's getting worse every year. If we don't do that, we won't have jobs for people. Whether those are union jobs, as Gina mentioned, or non-union jobs, what we have to do is find the best ways to provide what is needed to fight climate change, regardless of who gets those jobs. And if it's done overseas rather than in America, that's a shame. I would love to have the jobs in America. But there's something more important than that. It is that we're going to have a life. We cannot continue the way we're going. We will not be able to feed our families. We won't be able to stay safe. And so you can talk about changing climate, stopping the destruction of our climate, and you can talk about the economic needs that we have. I think they go hand in hand in many cases. If you take a look, if you were to build a brand new coal-fired power plant today, the economics are just about at the point where you'd be better off closing it down the day it was supposed to open, ripping it down, and building a new one with renewables, because the renewables are becoming so much more effective, cost-efficient, that that's really where we want to go. And that's good. But we have to understand that we can't keep doing things. We have coal-fired power plants that are using coal. Somebody said to me recently, we should keep them going because that would keep the jobs for the coal miners there. You know, we have an army. We don't go start a war to give them something to do. And I think that's a very good analogy. We have to find a different set of jobs for the coal miners so that they can have a living. And Bloomberg Philanthropies is trying to do some of that. That's a really great objective we should have. But you can't let that get in the way of what we're supposed to be talking about today here, and that is, how do we stop the destruction of our climate so that our children will be able to live safely, feed their families, and enjoy life? Gina, can I just... Oh, please, Gina. I was just going to jump in for a minute and just say that, you know, I totally agree with the mayor when he says, you know, it's not about 2015. It's about what we do in the next decade. That is going to be... That's exactly right. We are at this moment where another decade of delay, we will never be able to recover. We have to spend the money and think creatively about deploying what we already know works. And the mayor is right. Renewable energy is the winner. He ends down when it's given a chance to compete. And everybody benefits from that, from kids wanting clean air and a great place to... a great home that's energy efficient, to everybody else who's just looking for a safe and sustainable way to live. And so there is a moment when we have to tire of discussions about these long-term goals and really just demand, are you already investing in the things that we know we need to do today? And are you investing in the innovations that will get us to the next level? So I think that, Mike, you're right. Let's just stop talking about 2050. Now, neither one of us are going to be around, but I sure hope we... Well, you will be, Gina. Oh, well, yes. I want my kids... Anthony, you should know that Gina and I were born at the same hospital. We were. And it was a good one. Not at the same time, but at the same hospital. Well, you've both been very eloquent in talking about the role of thinking about climate and climate solutions in terms of livelihoods and health, not just far off, you know, far off timelines. And it's really about people's health and better lives and livelihoods today. And you both have done an awful lot of work over the last four years to keep progress moving in the right direction, even when we had a U.S. government that was pulling us exactly the wrong way. And so, Gina, I'm wondering about, you know, now that we have managed to hold down the fort over the last four years with an awful lot of action from cities and the private sector and cultural institutions and others, we need that continued action to get to these incredible emissions reductions in just the next decade. So how do you see taking those kind of contributions into account? How do you continue to mobilize that sort of teamwork to get where we need to go on climate change? Well, I have to say that it was the work, Anthe, that you helped to do and Mike, that you helped to really bring prominence to in the America is All In campaign that kept me sane, at least I would argue I'm sane, kept me sane during the prior administration, because it made me realize that the federal government wasn't the be all and end all, that there was an ability to actually move forward with great solutions and actions at the state and the city level. And we can see them, they bring to life the kind of opportunities that we can now capture and magnify. Because now we have a president again, that isn't disputing climate change, but recognizing that adopting the kind of economy that invests in clean energy is what is going to sort of recapture and rejuvenate both the health and well-being of us, but also our economy. So there's been a wonderful shift, I think, maybe it's from hard lessons learned over the past year about failing to pay attention to science, but we now know that we can make progress and that progress can happen at every level of government. And I just have to thank you and the governors and mayors for continuing to push forward, because it's them that innovated, that allow us to now capture and understand the system that we were working in and how that system can shift with investments and strategies that we've put on the table here. We are moving forward in this American Jobs Plan with a clean energy standard, because it works. It actually sets a course for the utility world that will get us to that clean energy goal by 2035 that President Biden was talking about. And it says we have to have standards that are going to drive change. And the people say, well, what can I do? I'm just one person. But you have an enormous impact as an individual. If you were to turn off your air conditioner before you went out in the morning, you would do a lot to help the economy, but not running it all day long when there's nobody at home. If you were to drive a more fuel efficient car, you will do the same thing. You will help. If you are an employee of a company, a customer of a company or a stockholder in a company, if you demand that that company acts in an environmentally sustainable way, you will make a big difference. And let me tell you, management listens. I can just tell you in the case of Bloomberg, when we say all the profits of the company go to the foundation and the foundation works on saving the environment, it is a very big plus in recruiting the best and the brightest out of school. And I would. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, no, go ahead. No, it's fascinating that in spite of Washington in the last four years trying to slow down the progress, we closed coal fired power plants at the same rate under Donald Trump that we did under Barack Obama. And I hope that they say that the rate will expand under the Biden administration. Can I just can I just add, Mike, that one of the things I tell people to do is to pay attention in local government, run for office if you care about, you know, and actually talk to your local leaders because they listen. They have to. They're going to see you in the supermarket tomorrow. You know what I mean? These are all kitchen table issues that people should get excited about and want to talk about and make demands on their leaders. They're supposed to be working for the public. Make sure they do. And one of the exciting things that I saw during the during the campaign with President Biden, then campaigner President Biden, he actually met with hundreds of environmental justice because we went through a racial reckoning during the pandemic that is not by any means complete. And as a result of those conversations, he began to realize the inequities of the current system and our economic investments. And you'll see that the jobs plan is is is basically doing everything it can to direct benefits to communities that have been disinvested. And I know that that you have done the same. You have found a way to raise the profile of people who really need help the most and direct that help there and find ways to do it in a way that grows jobs. There is nothing competing here. Instead, it's sort of like a little symphony of how you move forward, recognizing that we need a lot of things as human beings and there's no way we should be settling for one. We need a job. We need good food on our table. We need a good, efficient home to live in, preferably folks who can afford it and live in it. And we need a strong energy system, one that doesn't collapse when when the winds are high or when the hurricane hits. And we need each other working together. And I think I think you can actually have all that and demanding less means that you're not really serving the interests of the people. You've both talked a lot about the interlocking, simultaneous crises that we're facing in terms of the pandemic, the economic recession, the reckoning for racial justice and the climate crisis at the exact same time. And, Mike, when you launched Plan YC in 2007, it was a comprehensive climate and sustainability plan. And a year later, we faced an economic collapse. By the end of your administration, the city's economy had recovered and carbon emissions had fallen dramatically. How did you do that? And how can cities now balance the need to address climate change and revive their economies at the exact same time? Well, I'm a believer that if you have lots of problems and if you try to solve them all at the same time, you don't really get a lot done. You have to treat them individually because each has a different rhythm and requires different resources. And with the case of climate, we know what to do. We know that we have to reduce our energy consumption and we know that we have to create energy in a more responsible way. And you can take those things, focus them, get them going and then go and with a separate group, simultaneously if you want, but a separate group to work on some of the other things. And so I think pushing companies to be environmentally friendly, it's discreet. People will understand it. And we have shown that you can make a lot of progress just with what all you've done working on coal and now working on methane, the technologies that keep getting better with wind and solar, nuclear is actually getting better. So we can find ways to work on the environment. If you help the environment, you will to some extent also create jobs if that's one of your objectives. You'll also be able to provide services in underserved neighborhoods if that's another objective. But I like the idea of taking one thing, assigning a group of people to it, saying this is your responsibility. We're holding you responsible for that. Go get them. And then call in the next group and say, here's what I want you to work on. And here's how we're going to measure you. And here are the resources you have. Go get them. And I think that's a ways that we've shown in government and certainly the ways that we've shown in business to really make some concrete progress. I think also you have to have some goals that are attainable and measurable short term. And giving a speech about what we're going to do for 2050 is hypocrisy at its ultimate. We're not going to do anything. Having said, we want you to reduce the carbon footprint of your city or your building or your home by X. Those are things that we can measure and hold your feet to the fire. And that's what gets people to perform. Can I just mention that part of that is entirely consistent, Mike, with the idea that everybody can contribute here and there are things that every individual cares about. For example, we're looking at the lead pipes in water and how that and how we rejuvenate our schools and rebuild them again in a way that there'll be great learning centers. But my job has been designed as an all of government approach, not so that we can do everything, but so that everybody considers climate in the way in which they act. So we have a great cabinet. We have Jennifer Granholm, who's the Secretary of Energy. We have Secretary Mayor Pete Buttigieg at Transportation. And every one of them are not supposed to just look at energy as if everything is equal. They're supposed to look at energy as the system that will get us to the future. Transportation, similarly. We're working with the Labor Secretary who was the mayor of the city of Boston, Marty Walsh. We're looking at Gina Raimondo, who was the governor in Rhode Island, who is now the Commerce Secretary. We're looking at Masha Fudge, who has moved from Congress and now is the Secretary of HUD. Every one of them are coming to the table, including Secretary Yellen, to say, what do we do with the work that we do to make sure it's informed by one of the big crises of our time, which is climate change? So it makes it a wonderful opportunity for us not to give up our main task, but to think about it through different lenses. So you're not missing out on an opportunity to actually meet the needs of a multidimensional population and a country that deserves to be able to do more than one thing and focus on it well. And so it's so exciting to bring them together because when all these very high-powered people get together, it's hard to get a word in edgewise, and it's really fun. Well, you mentioned Secretary Yellen and Mike, you talked a bit about just the importance of data. I wonder if you could spend just a minute talking about an effort that you've led to get companies to report their climate risk, the task force for climate-related financial disclosures. What do you think is the opportunity there and what kind of response have you been getting? At Bloomberg Philanthropies, we have a saying, if you can't measure it, you can't manage it. And if I'm going to hold you responsible for something, we've got to be able to concretely and accurately and fairly measure what we're asking you to do and show the progress or lack of progress that you've been able to create. Regardless of why, the measurement is separate from the why. And unfortunately, in our society today, we try to manipulate the numbers to fit what we want to have happen or to help somebody have an excuse for not having done something. Holding people's feet to the fire is an amazing way to get them to produce more. And when it's something as important as the environment where if we don't fix it, we're going to die and our children are going to die and our grandchildren aren't going to exist. We really have to be able to do that. And so we have organizations now we created and we put people in who can actually run the thing to where companies can be compared one to another based on how well they do in terms of making the environment better or reducing their bad impact on the environment. And that lets stockholders make a decision if they want to reward a company for being environmentally friendly. They can buy their stock, but at least they'll know which companies to go and do it with and which companies they should sell their stock. And the good news is the employees of the company, the customers of the company and the shareholders of the company are pushing the companies to do exactly that. And so what you're talking about is giving everybody the information to know who is doing what, when. Is it just a good speech or a paper that some speechwriter has written not knowing what they're talking about? Or is it actual fact where we've made a big difference? And I'm happy to say Bloomberg, the company, we have arranged to create enough power so that we are carbon neutral or will be in a couple of years. And lots of companies should do that. Not everybody can, but we should hold people's feet to the fire and say, I don't listen. I don't need another speech. We need you to do something. And the good news is we're going in the right direction. But as Gina pointed out, we have to do it a lot faster or there's not going to be an end where we're going to be around. Yeah, I should just add that Secretary Yellen has already announced her her intent to move forward. And and the president concurs with an executive order that looks at financial disclosure. It is about time. You know, we all deserve to know where our investments are being spent and what our business community is or isn't valuing. And we have an opportunity as consumers to then really make a value judgment about who to who are we going to invest in and who are we not. These messages, particular our climate message, is a one that is one that is hopeful and moving and advancing opportunities. Even the work we're doing with the with the transition we're expecting and seeing on jobs is a hopeful one. People can get other jobs where they live that they're skilled at or get trained for. And so there are opportunities. But I will say that I think other countries do a little bit more when it comes to things like pension funds and information to shareholders. And this is going to be really important because it's like you said, until you measure it, you're really not going to act on it. And so I think it's exciting to make sure that there's a level playing field and that with that, it's not a matter of criticizing, but it is a matter of visibility and giving people access to good information and the companies themselves. Because, as you know, and I think and I think you you epitomize is that when you really look at it, these things are good for your bottom line. If you actually move forward with the investments, we need to address climate change. If you do it smartly, we can get there together. And that's hopefully the message that we're all saying. Dana, next week is the first ever high level leader summit on climate change. What's the purpose of the summit and what can we expect? Well, I think, as everybody knows, we rejoined the Paris agreement, which is very exciting. So we have a couple of things we want to do. And one of them is that we develop our nationally determined contribution, which is a fancy way of saying, what are we going to reduce from 2005 baseline by 2030 as a country in terms of our greenhouse gas emissions? And so we're going to be developing that and putting it out. And really, the summit is about getting world leaders together again, because we want to make sure that that they see the commitment in our NDC when it comes out, that we are real. And we're going to be continuing to push and provide hopefully a humble reentry into the system, but also an aggressive one, because we need to get everybody together and reengage. The Paris agreement was great, but we all know it's not enough. We all know two degrees is not the goal. We need to actually address the change that we need and make that happen in a more aggressive way. And this is all about trying to reengage, not just to have the US rejoin, but to look at how we work together to strengthen our commitments and to recognize that science is now telling us that the temperatures continue to rise and that 1.5 degrees is really an opportunity that we need to invest in today. That will also slip by us. Thanks very much. Mike, is there anything else you want to add about your climate work before we wrap? No, I'm very proud of what we've done, but I realize that we have an awful lot more to do. And I can do something in the private sector as can you. And hopefully, Gina, we'll get it done in the public sector. And together, we have to have a chance here to reduce the warming that's going on and the pollution that we're putting into the waters and into the air. And there's no easy answers. It's going to require sacrifice. And anybody that promises that we'll be able to do it without sacrifice is just disingenuous. Well, thank you both so much for sharing your perspectives in advance of next week's climate summit. You've really helped set the stage. And I know we're all looking forward to that next week. And thanks, everyone, for tuning in and joining us. With that, I'll turn it back over to Vera.