Two Years of War | Easy Russian Podcast 50

Hola amigos! Hello, dear friends! I'm trying to joke so awkwardly in my vacation in Barcelona. Actually, because of this vacation, we recorded this episode of the podcast in advance. And, of course, I could not imagine that literally on the second day of being on this vacation, in this wonderful weather, with these palm trees, I will learn one of the most terrible news in my life. The fact is that Alexey Navalny died in prison. We thought it was important to say this, because Navalny is the main oppositionist of the current Russian government and a name that is probably already known all over the world. Three years ago, he was tried to poison, but it did not work. Navalny returned to Russia, realizing that he would go to prison. What actually happened to him? He was arrested right on the border. For the last three years, he sat in different colonies throughout the country, and as a result, he ended up in the Far North, in one of the most severe and cruel prisons in Russia. He was responsible for all these insults. He was a very brave and free person, even in such conditions. I remember well how in one of his letters he compared this prison sentence with a flight on a spaceship. This is how he managed to romanticize even the most terrible and common things. Of course, he was killed. Even if not directly, right now, then the amount of those insults that he had to experience in prison. His death became known on February 16. The autopsy was not carried out, his body is still not given to relatives, and the cause of his death has not yet been determined. Yes, he was killed, and this is absolutely terrible and unacceptable. Yes, I have a terrible feeling of loss of any connection with my homeland. I have a terrible feeling of loss of any connection with my homeland. Because I do not understand how you can live on calmly after seeing this. But of course we will live, and we will try to be happy, free, full of love. And certainly not commit a crime. Hi, I'm Marina. Hi, I'm Nikita. We are the presenters of the Easy Russian podcast. This is a podcast for those who learn Russian in spite of everything. February 24 is approaching. It is already the second sad anniversary of the beginning of the war between Russia and Ukraine. In addition to terrible devastation and the deaths of people, it is also the destroyed or altered fates of Ukrainians, Russians, Belarusians, and many other people who did not participate directly in this war and were scattered all over the world. Today we decided to talk about these changes. And we will talk about this through our history, through the history of our acquaintances, who, among other things, returned to Russia or did not leave there, and through statistics. We received several questions from our followers on Instagram and from our patrons. And today we will also try to answer them. For example, the first question was from Tristan, who has been with us for some time and is obviously interested in the Russian agenda. He asks the following. As the war drags on, how does it affect your relationship with your family and friends in Russia? Well, part of my family understands my decision not to stay in Russia and continue my activity, for which in Russia you can be punished outside the country. Part of my family, of course, does not support this decision at all, as well as does not support my journalistic work, both after the beginning of the war and, frankly speaking, before it began. Some of my friends also stopped talking to me. Well, I can't say that we had a direct quarrel or somehow slammed the door, but we just understood each other that we were not building a dialogue. I tried to convince them, they tried to convince me. We never found a common language, and just like that, delicately, to preserve, it seems to me, the visibility of some kind of peaceful situation between us and good relations, we just stopped talking at all. I just sometimes congratulate someone on their birthday, no more than that. And what about you, Marina? In general, at the beginning of the war, my relatives told me various strange things, like, we wish you not to return to Russia, so that you understand how life is in Europe, and all that. But during these two years, I just did not continue to communicate with someone, or rather, I finished communicating with someone, but mostly my relatives and I went to some kind of neutral zone, in which we do not discuss war with some people, for example, I do not discuss war with my grandmother, because my grandmother is more important to me than a political trip, and it is not clear how soon I will see her at all. And sometimes we call each other, discuss something, but I try to avoid the topic of war, because otherwise she begins to broadcast to me what she hears on TV. They kind of understand why I am abroad and why I do not return. But in general, you know, Nikita, this topic of return has been very painful for me for a long time. I know that many people are probably interested in how people live in Russia now, what are their views, let's say, what they think and feel, but I would first like to talk about those who returned to Russia from emigration, and maybe you will tell about your acquaintances here first, and then I will tell about mine. Yes, I will tell, but you mentioned grandmothers and grandfathers, this, of course, made me think and remember my grandmothers and grandfathers, who, unfortunately, are no longer alive, but who were all participants in World War II. And it immediately reminded me of my conversations. As a little child, of course, I was interested in what it was like for grandmothers and grandfathers, whether it was scary or not. I remember that I looked at, for example, Schindler's List and ran to my grandfather with the same questions. Or there, after watching the rescue of Private Ryan, I went there for the 500th time and started this topic to find out how he remembers the war. So, all my grandmothers and grandfathers categorically refused to remember the war in detail, although some details were still told. What was absolutely united in them was that it was a terrible horror and hell, and it should never happen again. Despite the fact that, of course, they had a rather strong motive that they were defending their homeland, the territory that the invaders came to and began to destroy. Nevertheless, there was no heroism in their voices. There was fear, regret, and an incredible and unyielding desire for this horror not to happen again. These are the memories I have about the war from my grandfathers and grandmothers, which is sharply contrasted with the fact that now, from the screens of those very televisions that you have just mentioned, tears are falling on my constituents. I am sorry for this remark. Now, I will not even go into detail, but I will simply tell you about the impressions of two of my acquaintances who returned to Moscow after a year, after a year and a half of life and work in emigration. First of all, these people really wanted to go home, and I understand them perfectly. And they wanted it so much, it was so unbearable for them to part with their family and home that no constructive attempts to build their life here in emigration brought them any internal benefits. Externally, everything seemed to be going well. And with work it worked, and with a career it worked, and with money, too, more or less, it worked. That is, not only did these people turn around and run away from the external difficulties with which they could not cope, they did not want to continue to live away from their homeland. What do these two people tell me now? I will just say that these are people of different ages. One person is much older than me, the other is a little younger, so here you can even compare the impressions of different generations. But both say the same thing. To be honest, they say with some embarrassment, it was very good to return home. To be honest, we live very well. It is difficult to admit, as if there is some kind of shame in this. Like, you gave up, you couldn't, you came back. But in fact, I can also understand these people very well, because living without a home is difficult. And you need to adapt to this. It may take someone a month, but it is unlikely. As a rule, it takes several years. And not everyone succeeds, and this is normal. Well, I think they say this with such a sense of shame, because it is no secret that for most of those people who emigrated after the start of the war, this is the very emigration, and there is such an option of voting against the war. We have exhausted all our methods, such as rallies, protest actions, open letters. The elections did not justify themselves in any way, because they are completely falsified. People found themselves in a situation where they had to either go to jail, or completely disappear from public life, and thus somehow agree to the start of the war, or leave. Therefore, I think that these two people are talking to me with the same light sense of guilt, because it turns out that they first demonstrated their civic protest in the form of departure, and then returned, and as if they had stepped back a few steps. Now they seem to feel like people who, in their presence, agree with what the current Russian government is doing, and seem to approve of the war, although this is certainly not the case. True, on the one hand, they still had to give up their professions. One way or another, they no longer manage to do what they did before. Are they journalists? Yes, they are journalists. Of course, they had to drastically change their activities, because, first of all, they certainly will not be able to engage in the same journalism that, so to speak, remained in Russia, namely, in general, propaganda. And secondly, even if they wanted to, I think that they would hardly be taken there, because, of course, these people have such a kind of white coat of arms, which means that they are now considered to be stifled, untouchable because of their background. So people had to drastically change the course of their activities. They completely ceased to exist in such an informational and public-political field, and, as they both say, they ceased to be interested. This works as a psychological mechanism of exclusion. If soon they will not be able to do anything constructive in this area, they have completely learned to close their eyes and ears inwardly and not to be interested in what is happening in the war, in what is happening in the world, in everything that is associated with it. Including, as they say, they screen any conversations that they can hear, there in public transport or on the street. These very posters and banners, on TV, maybe there is something about the war, news, all this they removed from themselves, leaving just such a sterile everyday life, concentrating on creativity, on making money, on caring for their relatives and friends. By the way, I have another example, the opposite of yours, Nikita. My friends live in Russia, they did not leave, there are several of my close friends, and we recently met, they told, well, I continue to hear stories from them, for them, on the contrary, it is quite difficult. That is, my friend says that there is a feeling that people with political views similar to hers, that is, those who do not support the war, well, did not remain as if, at least they did not remain in her environment. She is not a journalist, and in this regard, she did not have to change her career. Well, although she had to, partly, she used to work in a publishing house, and there were a lot of books that began to censor at the beginning of the war, and then she left the publishing house, to another related specialty, and it is very difficult for her, because she reads the news, she understands what is happening, she does not protect herself from this at all, well, it's hard for her. But it is also very difficult for her to leave Russia, it is difficult to decide on this, for many reasons, this can be, among other things, relatives, and the further, the more difficult. And it seems to me that it is also important to say that people get used to war not only within Russia, people get used to war in Europe as well. I have lived in several European countries due to this weather, well, Nikita, like you, and I can definitely say that I notice very well how the war becomes the background, the normal background, as scary as it sounds, other wars begin, people switch their attention to them, and this is some kind of endless cycle of evil in nature, which, apparently, inevitably accompanies our entire human history. This is bad, I do not deny it, but it is so. Let's switch to the next question from our subscriber on Instagram, she wants to know what views people who live in Russia now have, what they feel and think, we have already told a little on the example of our acquaintances, now a little statistics. It is quite difficult to answer unambiguously what people really think there, because the independent centers for studying public opinion in Russia have been destroyed for several years, as it happened even before the start of the full-scale war, but there is one wonderful center, which is also semi-prohibited, but it works, it is called Levada Center, and I believe in its research. In 2023, an article was published there, which we will put in the comments, you can see it yourself, the conclusion from it, to put it briefly, more than half of Russians still feel nostalgia for the past, that is, the absolute majority, 80%. They thought and still think that Russia, this is a quote, must return and retain the role of a great power, but the fact is that the main sign of a great power is the welfare of the people, that is, to live according to the same standards as in normal countries, that is, as in the West. Do you understand? Some absurd. And this desire for the last 20 years, it seems to be becoming more and more. This is logical, because in the 90s it was not very pleasant to live economically in Russia, and in the 2000s there was an economic growth, and, of course, people want to live economically more profitably and well, especially traveling abroad and looking at how they live in Europe, they want the same level. In Russia, unfortunately, it does not exist. If we do not take big cities like Moscow, which are very rich. No, of course, I am always ready to say about this strange idea of ​​greatness, as if greatness is available only through fear and intimidation of others. It seems to me that this is some kind of collective unhealed trauma, or rather, in every separate case, this is a personal trauma, which, like this, according to some general education rules, developed in our national idea. I completely do not understand this story, in the style of beats means loves. In my opinion, if you want to be great, you should just deserve love. That's how I understand greatness. This is doing something very well, doing something very cool, doing something unique. Write books or build houses, I do not know, anything. Treat, teach, demonstrate sports successes, do something constructive, so great, that people recognize your greatness. This is an ambition, this is what I understand. I would like to return to statistics, but to a more specific one. On the question of Levada Center, in 2022, 48% supported the war, 20% answered rather yes, that is, rather supported. In two years, the data has not changed much, which surprised me personally, for example. But mostly people over 55 and those who trust information from TV support. Propaganda is a rather powerful tool, and it is quite difficult not to succumb to it, when it is constantly, always, everywhere around you. And you live in this atmosphere. I was more surprised that even young people answer that they believe that Russia will win and that they are for the continuation of military actions. I probably did not expect such results, but again, I want to say that many people in Russia can really support Putin, in fact, support the war, but what we mean by support for the war and what people who answer these questions mean, these can be slightly different things. I just want to say here, not justifying people who support the war, of course, in no case, I want to say that we just have different pictures of the world. The community of Russians who live abroad for two years, these are completely different Russians, not those who live in Russia now and have not lived there for the last two years. We really have very different contexts, we have very different feelings of life, feelings of home, feelings of some values, maybe in some sense different. And even people who do not support the war, those who live in Russia and abroad, these are already quite different Russians, in my opinion. Here is a funny fact about the statistics center in Russia. There is a main official statistics center, which is called FCOM, and there is a beautiful quote there. The December poll at FCOM showed that every second Russian spends 2023 with a good mood and a sense of optimism. Well, with this phrase, you can, in principle, assume how reliable the social polls of the official sociological bodies of Russia are and make some kind of realistic cut of what is happening in society. In my opinion, Tristan also asked us about Boris Nadezhdin, a candidate for the upcoming presidential elections in Russia in 2024. Yes, this is now. I have already forgotten that the New Year has already come. Imagine how I was already spinning. This year, in March, there will be elections for the President of Russia. It is no secret that many, many, many last years, yes, in general, you can say all the last 20 plus years, the elections in Russia are, to put it mildly, not fair. Everyone is used to this. Everyone is already used to counting elections as some serious tool of expression of their political will or an instrument of influence on the future of the country. Nevertheless, at these elections, suddenly, as, in my opinion, a self-promoter, the politician Boris Nadezhdin turned out to be. This is such a politician of the old school, who, in general, for all the last decades was such an almost invisible politician, because it will be my assessment judgment, tried to play along with all the political forces at the same time and, in general, did not differ in any clear, bright political program. However, at the moment when he began to move towards these elections as a candidate, he did only one important thing. He formulated quite clearly that he is an opponent of war, who wants to stop it when he becomes president. And if he becomes president, he will stop this war. Despite the fact that his program and his slogans have a lot of other questions, one of them turned out to be enough so that in almost all the cities of Russia there were long queues, long-distance queues of people who wanted to put their signature for this candidate. The fact is that the candidate needs to collect 100,000 signatures, if I'm not mistaken, in order to register as a self-promoter at these elections. And these signatures in different regions were extremely successful. People, it turns out, voted again. There is a video where a person just goes and goes, minute by minute, even 10 minutes, and suddenly there are infinitely long queues. I saw such queues only in childhood, in times of deficit. It seems to me that it is not everywhere. These were really kilometer queues of people who wanted to put their signatures. As some political experts say, in fact, Nadezhdin wanted to allow the Russian authorities to make such a valve out of it, through which they would release the discontent of the crowd, in their opinion, of people who are against the war. Judging by how the signatures were collected, it became clear that the crowd was very large. I would even say the opposite. Even in Riga, in Latvia, signatures were collected among immigrants for this candidate. And practically none of the people who left these signatures did not say that they wanted to personally vote for this person, for this candidate, for Boris Nadezhdin. No, this is such an option of voting against the war. It all ended with the fact that, according to various suggestions, the signatures were partially rejected, and Nadezhdin was not registered for these elections. The Central Election Commission simply refused to register him as an official candidate. And, in my opinion, this showed the reaction of the Russian authorities in the best possible way, which was clearly nervous, did not expect that such a large number of people would suddenly vote with their feet and their signatures against this war. That's all. I want to say a little more about immigrants. Let's talk about something good, which actually appeared during these two years of the war and what Nikita and I are also experiencing. It seems to me that it is important that horizontal connections began to form, a lot of communities of mutual assistance, Russian-speaking communities in which there is a lot of support for each other, and there are, for example, co-livings, those who leave Russia without any funds, where they fled from mobilization, for example. There are various NGOs, for example, there is such a service called Kovcheg, where a lot of volunteers work, psychologists work for free, there are free co-livings, where people can live for a while and eat free food. In general, everyone helps each other. And, in fact, it seems to me that it is very important to remember that when you go somewhere, even to nowhere, that you are not alone there. At first it didn't seem so. The last question, also from our patrons, is whether we would return to Russia under Putin. Have you returned, Nikita? Yes, I know under what circumstances, if and maybe when. My mother will be very bad. She is old, and I worry that she may die at any moment. If my mother gets seriously ill, I will leave everything and go. And it will be with Putin, without Putin, it doesn't matter to anyone, because it is very important for me to be close to my mother. I don't live so unbearably because I broke up with Nikita. If it is said that this is my last opportunity to talk to her, I will go. I don't care what happens. Yes, I agree with you. My relatives, my relatives, my family are more important than any policy and any regime that will be in Russia. I will go if it is necessary. Absolutely. Otherwise, I would come to a new, beautiful Russia of the future, which I hope we will build together with other colleagues, friends, and friends, with whom we have the same views, or with whom we have different views. I would be happy to come to Russia, which ended the war, I can't imagine how I could return to Russia now, because I have a completely different life now, and I have come to terms with the fact that I don't have a house now, and it is not clear whether it will ever be, and the horizon of planning is really very short, literally a month before the next payment of the apartment. At first I was sad about this, and now I treat it as a given, as a constant in which I live now. I don't know what will happen next, and whether I want to return there or not. Well, at the moment I can't imagine how this is possible, and what will happen next is quite difficult for me to imagine, given the number of different news that come from all over the world about every day. And in general, how to plan my life in this way, I also do not understand, so the simple answer is incomprehensible. I would like to have a choice to return to Russia, if I want this. Freedom to choose whether I should return to Russia, to leave Russia again, to go somewhere else, to go to Spain, to Portugal, to Denmark, to America, to Canada, to Mexico. I would like to have the opportunity to freely make decisions about my future. Today I am deprived of this opportunity for a number of reasons, and this happens in the form of a number of different manifestations. This is what I would like, to have freedom to make decisions that can really affect my fate. Today I have this freedom, I have these decisions, but, let's say, they are quite limited. Yes, I agree with you. This is really important. No subscription call, dear friends, but you write to us, write to us in the comments, leave us audio messages, send us letters, tell us, help us, tell us about your feelings that arise in you, how do you live with this war, which has been going on for two years, with other terrible events that are happening in the world, where do you find that balance between compassion, compassion, involvement in the experiences for the fate of people, and your own life, saving your own mind, saving your own optimism. A very complex structure. I feel like a juggler, who has everything falling out of his hands, a novice juggler, who was immediately given five balls for the juggler. And how do you feel, how do you manage to solve this riddle? Friends, write to us on the podcast abacaeasyrussian.org, your stories and thoughts, and what do you think about everything we talked about today with Nikita on the podcast. Come to the comments, put likes, subscribe to our channel and come to our social networks. See you there, bye! Bye, see you soon!