“Freaking brutal and ruthless” ¦ The Brilliancy Of Magnus Carlsen

Or try to banging the door. Wow, this guy really likes to chill. Hello everyone and welcome to The Brilliancy, a show where we explore the unique player profiles of the freestyle chess players. Today we're going to be taking a look at Magnus Carlsen, not through his own story, but through the eyes of his rivals and peers. And I'm delighted to be joined by Levon Aronian and Wesley. So thank you so much to both of you for joining me. And the first question right off the bat, who of you two knows Magnus better? Well, I guess I'm older, so... Do you remember the first time you met Magnus? Yeah, maybe it was in Libya, in Tripoli, where I played against him. 2004? Was it 2003? I think four, yeah. No, I think it was 2003, actually. It was every two years. I won in 2005. Ah, you are correct. That's how I remember. You are correct. And Wesley, do you remember the first time you met Magnus? In a magazine. Reading about him, I think I saw him in person in 2008 during the Olympiad. He was already a big star, but I first heard about him when he played in Waik'ensei in 2005. And growing up in the Philippines, we had a magazine called Chess Asia. So they were discussing about his games. I remember... Because I think he won the C Group that year, and that was his first time at Waik'ensei. And I remember he had a very brilliant game in the Karukan, where he had the white pieces. In Karukan, knight c3d4, knight e4, bishop f5, knight g3. And then where he, like, sacked a piece somewhere. I remember that game. You probably know that. I remember I was very impressed with that game. Yeah, sure. You both went on to play Magnus many, many times over the years. Do you remember your first game against Magnus? Well, I actually remember... Actually, what I said before was not true. Actually, the first time I met him was in Reykjavik. Yeah, I got to play in the Blitz portion. That's where I first played him. Oh, interesting. And which year was that? That's 2003, but I think it was earlier. 2004. Interesting. Yeah, it was a memorable tournament for me. I beat Kasparov there, Karpov, and I won the tournament. Yeah. Many victories under your belt, but this one is a special one. Yeah, because my first game was there against Magnus. It was a Blitz game, and around before that, I won against Gary. And of course, you know, beating your childhood hero. I was so overwhelmed. So I get to play against Magnus, and for no particular reason, I play Queen's Gambit declined. I've never played it before. What got into you? I had no idea. I was so overwhelmed after beating Gary. And suddenly, I realized, I don't know what I'm doing. But Magnus was also kind of shy, and we just drew. So a tame first game. What about you, Rensnik? In 2011, I played in Waikensei in the B group. Right after that tournament, he sent me a message asking if I would like to spend some time working with him. Of course, I said yes right away. It's Magnus Krauss, and he was already number one in the world at the time. So we had a short training camp in Spain in Las Palmas, if I remember correctly. That's interesting. I didn't know that at all. It wasn't public. So it was just me, Magnus, and a Norwegian. I actually forgot his name. But yeah, we played a lot of these games. Magnus crushed me. We spent a few days in Spain. Nice memory, I'm sure. And actually, that leads me to my next question, which is, how does he behave off the board? Is he different from his over-the-board persona? Well, I don't really know him that well, per se. But in my opinion, it appears to me that he's a normal Norwegian boy. He loves all kinds of sports. He's got a great family behind him. He's very opinionated, very ambitious. If he's not a professional chess player, I'm sure he'll be very good at something else. And I remember in around 2007, I read the book, Wonder Kid, written by Simon Agdestein. So I read that book many times over. Yeah, that's how I got to know him. I think so. I think if for people who want to get to know a young Magnus, I think that book is still very good. And Levon, you know Magnus quite well. Would you concur with Nastja's opinion? Yeah, sure. I mean, over the board, he's quite serious. But in life, I think he's more easygoing. He has a sense of humor that is quite typical for Scandinavian people. But it's kind of funny for me because he enjoys puns. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, we've played a lot of sports together. In sports, of course, he always wants to win. But in other board games, he's more kind of playful. Spending time with him is always fun. Yeah, I also want to mention, I remember two quotes from Magnus that really impressed me. One was when he was already number one by far, he still said, I still make mistakes on chess. So I focus on improvement, not on winning. And also the other one where he said he doesn't really care too much about money. It's good to be financially stable. But it's clear you can see he really loves the game. He sure does. And when we talked about Magnus the person a little bit now, is there something about him that people wouldn't expect? What do you think? Well, Magnus is, you know, although he's a brilliant chess player, he does understand that he can make mistakes. And he has a self-depreciating humor. Quite often, people who are very successful, they have a problem calling themselves idiots or morons. And well, for Magnus, it has never been a problem. So he even laughs about it. And final question before we move on. Is there a personal moment with Magnus that you will always remember? Maybe on the board, a game or off the board? Well, beating him on some games. For example, never in my life before I won against Grandmaster by taking on H7. And, you know, Bishop H7, Ag5. I know that game. Yeah, and that happened with Magnus. So that was very special for me. Other memories? So we had this kind of a small camp in the US at our friend's place. And one day we were supposed to visit Soros to play some chess. And we went through the beach, running a bit. And then we went to the house that was supposed to be the house. So we ring the bell and there was nobody. The house had kind of a Spanish name, I think. Henrik and I are starting to contemplate. We're thinking, what if it's a house of some like big Mexican mafioso? And not the house we were supposed to go. And imagine we're just thinking like in our mind, like the helicopter is looking from the top on us. Was it the wrong house? No, no, it was the right house. But I think that the bell was broken. A special memory with a different Carlsen. We're a bit worried, yeah. Wesley, does anything stand out to you? Well, I spent a short time with him in 2011. I remember at some point just looking at him and thinking, he's just a very quiet person. And I can't believe I'm working with the best chess player. But he's just a very normal, very quiet person. And I remember when I met him at that time, I asked him if he ever had bodyguards. And what did he say? Because he was so famous. And he just looked shocked. And he said, no, never. Some very nice anecdotes. And well, we were just discussing some of his games. So I'll invite you to take the iPad and live on. This is a game involving you and Magnus. Yeah, I remember this game. Do you remember it? Yeah, it was a rapid game full of mistakes. I think this is the knockout and triple A. If it's like the F5 win or if you have to play only... I think Rook c5 was, no? Rook c5 was. Do you remember his reaction in the game in that moment when... Yeah, he was clearly upset. But it was an interesting match. The classical games, especially. I remember you won the World Cup in 2005. Yes. Was that the time you also faced Magnus? I am not sure if Magnus played in 2005, actually. You're asking tricky questions now. Yeah, I just remember also seeing Liv1 in the new Inches magazine in 2005. And then the title was leader of new generation. So in 2003, I was 26-45. And there were like lots of good players. Much higher rated from my generation. And I remember we were analyzing something. And they were like, they were talking about some things. And I said, guys, the assessment is like that. And they're saying, come on, what are you talking about? I mean, you're lower rated than us. And I said, but I'm the leader of this generation. And they were shocked because they were like, what are you talking about? And I think I proved my point. I mean, now that I look at my career. Yeah, what a career you've had, Liv1. What a chance to hear you speak on your peer, Magnus. What do you think makes Magnus such a brilliant chess player? I think objectivity and emotional stability. I think the bonus, right? Mental stability, right? And objectivity. And also, of course, his phenomenal endgames. Not the theoretical endgames, but the ones that you just played. I mean, he's very good at just natural play. Do you think it's a talent, a feeling, or it's something you can work on? I think that's a gift. To play simple positions is the hardest thing in chess. And for Magnus, it's very easy. He's a very smart player. He knows the right way to train chess. Also, he's in very good physical shape as a chess player. Maybe not in NBA, but for chess players. He's in very good shape. He can laugh. Our humble. Yeah. Also, he's very consistent. They can play as good as Magnus in one or a few tournaments. But for Magnus to be number one in the world for 11 years and going is crazy. And his way of approaching chess was very close to Ivanchuk's when it comes to openings. But he kind of excelled it because Ivanchuk knew lots of openings, lots of lines. But Magnus also knows lots of lines and their assessments. So that's how he trains. He basically understood that it's all about the width rather than the depth. Any opening, he knows there are four moves with this assessment. And he remembers that. That's very interesting. And well, let me ask you, if you could choose one of Magnus' skills or attributes for your own game, which skill would you choose? Well, definitely playing simple positions. Being a very smart chess player, as I said, he knows the right way to train. He studies his opponents. There is one quote here that was picked by our team. When nobody else has a great performance, my B game is usually enough. Your thoughts on? If Magnus is playing a tournament and he's got a good performance, I'll be happy with second place. Levon, you have any thoughts on that quote? I think that's a valid point. He is very consistent. He doesn't blunder, you know, and that's a big quality. You know, once I had a couple of hours with the great Boris Spassky and I told him, do you want to write a chess book? Oh, I said, I have an idea for a chess book. It's going to be a book called Short Circuit, like to show the times that I blundered from very simple positions. Magnus doesn't have that. I have that. And lots of people have like very simple blunders, but I've never seen Magnus blunder simple things. We've talked a lot just now about all of Magnus' strengths. What do you think is his biggest weakness in his game? I'll let the one go first. Well, his style is very different from, for example, Garry Kasparov, right? Yes. Yeah. So he doesn't have some of the strengths that Garry has. Yeah, I think Magnus' style quite often is a style without like a flashy or sharp kind of ideas. He has a lot of like technical approach. Therefore, when positions are irrational, you may make a mistake. Final question about Magnus' game. Is there one game involving Magnus that you will always remember? So either a game against you or a game that he played and you watched. Is there one that stands out? I think I only beat him once in a classical game. So that's the one? Yeah, for sure. I beat him in 2018 in Norway. And it was an exchange lap. And when I took on the five mood tree, commentators were saying, oh, here's Wesley Fogg. And commentators were like, oh, here's Wesley. If you don't know Wesley. And Levan, for you? You know, that's the thing. Like some games that I'm so impressed, they're not very famous. But for example, I think this game was from one year ago, where Magnus beat Fabi with Black and was in Gioco Piano. Oh yeah, and Fabi lost that game, yeah? He got outplayed C5, D5. That was like incredible, because I felt, okay, this is a position in C4. Fabi is a very good player. It was a draw until, like Magnus won a pawn. It was queen and three pawns against queen and two. But it was already like a draw by only moves. Yeah. And to get there, that's so impressive. Do you think there is a Magnus factor where it happens more often against him? Because he has that reputation of, you know, squeezing water out of a stone. He's just very good at it. Yeah, I think he continues playing till the end. And that's a mindset that is just absolutely wonderful. He's also freaking brutal and ruthless. Like in Oslo, just a few months ago, Levan and I were there. And I was beating him. It was like plus three. I thought he was going to resign. He started shaking his head, banging his fist. I thought, oh, it's over. But the guy just never gives up. And he turned it around. Yeah, he turned it. He ruined my tournament there. And then Levan beat me the next day. So I had no chance. Well, I really appreciate you both sharing very candidly and some really interesting stories. We're going to move on now for the final part of this discussion to some funnier questions. And Levan, I know you know a thing or two about trash talk. How would you rate Magnus's trash talk on a scale from one to ten? I mean, he thinks it's about eight, but I think it's about five. Yeah, I would say the same. I have five, but I really don't care. What is his trash talk lacking? I think he has the Scandinavian humor. This is a type of humor that is very funny for Scandinavians, but not very funny for other people. I remember when we had this training camp with him. And a couple of days in a row, he would go into the pool in the morning or do some physical exercise. And one day, I come in the morning, and we go for a run with Henrik. And Magnus, before we go, I see he's in the bathtub, jacuzzi. So we go for around 40 minutes. We come back, he's still in jacuzzi. So he stayed in the jacuzzi for one hour. And I was like, wow, this guy really likes to chill. He wakes up, and he goes straight to chill. I was very impressed, because you can't make me sit in the jacuzzi for more than one minute. I get nervous. I feel like I'm in hell. And this is the imps or their boiling water. For me, it's fine for a while, but an hour is quite a long time. I think I heard also rumors that Magnus does ice bath. Yeah, I think, I think, I think. That's stuff I love as well. Wesley, let me ask you. If Magnus was an animal, what would he be and why? That's a good question. Yeah, we had that same question three years ago, chess players, what animals. And someone said that Niemann's animal would be a cheetah. Yeah, very fast. But that's always a good question. But Magnus, I don't know, I need to think. I'll let Levon go first. I think Magnus is a polar bear. He eats everything that is around. He's an apex predator. But at the same time, he's, you know, he's very chill. Let's move on to the next one. If Magnus hadn't become a chess pro, what job do you think he would excel in? He'd be a sportsman. I'm sure, yeah. You know, Magnus is really good in math. Maybe he'd be a scientist. I don't think Magnus has kind of... He really doesn't like to spend a long time and go very deep into things, I think. I don't think he's a researcher. He's more of a striker, you know, who wants the action. If you two were stuck in an elevator with Magnus for two hours, what would happen? I'd stare in the floor. Would you guys be talking about chess? Or try to bang the door? Other than banging the door. Well, Levon can start a conversation with anybody in the world. But for me, it's much harder. So a nice chat for you, Levon, and some silence for you, Wesley. And banging the door. Hurry up! Finish this sentence. When you face him, you better... Be in your best form. Try not to put too much pressure, not prepare too much. That'd be better. Be ready to surprise him. And the last one. Can you guys imitate his best thinking pose? Thinking pose. That was good. I thought that was very good. I liked his face when I played BTR against him in Toronto a couple of years ago. What was his face like? It's on YouTube. You can look it up. I think it's going like... Like he was looking at me. Wondering what the hell. And also, it was a 15-minute game. I think he spent 30 seconds on the first move. Levon and Wesley, thank you so much for your time and for sharing so much. I mean, you've both been around Magnus for such a long time, so this was really fun. Hope you guys enjoyed the content as well. If you'd like to see more, make sure to follow Freestyle Jazz across all our socials. Thank you. Thank you, guys. See you soon.