Stacey Abrams EXPOSES Trump’s Authoritarian Playbook with Epic Takedown

Okay, so explain having somebody that knows nothing, that doesn't read, is incurious, impassionate, doesn't have any sense of morality. This seems to go against everything that makes sense. I'm baffled that we're here. Because he creates a permission structure for the worst impulses that we have, and he makes it seem like if you do those things, you can have what he's got. This is someone who was born winning a home run, but pretended that he had to run the bases, and then manufactured a story to justify it. We're ready. We're prepared. Do not give in to fear. We are fearless. This is not the time to be afraid. This is a time to stand up and fight back, and to resist any temptation for them to divide us. We're in this together. The rule of law is on. We will not give in, not give up. We will not capitulate. We will not bow. We will not bend. She last week launched a nationwide education and mobilization campaign, and when I talk about what are you doing, as Joe Madison would say, what are you going to do about it? Well, Stacey Abrams was like, this is a mess. I'm going to roll up my sleeves, and I'm going to come up with a plan, and it's 10 steps to autocracy and authoritarianism. She lays it out, and she's here today to talk about it. The one and only Stacey Abrams. Welcome back. Thank you so much, Karen. It's a pleasure to be here, and good to see you, Kevin. Great to see you. Great to see you. Wow. Let the people know. So, Kevin, they were catching up, because Kevin did a cover piece for, who did you do? It was for the Washington Post Magazine, 2020. Stacey, I got to tell you, it was one of my favorite pieces that I've ever had the honor of. I feel like I followed you around for a couple of months, and then I got to meet your parents. Karen, you say it all the time, who's solution oriented? Stacey Abrams. Stacey, thank you for who you are. Thank you for your vision for this country and for all people. You have continually created spaces, organizations, institutions, energy. I just need to say that. It disturbs me when people say we have no leadership. Well, yes, we do. There are folks like Stacey Abrams who have been doing this work for a long time. I just wanted to say that before anything else. Y'all can read the article on Washington Post's website. Just thank you. Thank you. Thank you for what you do. That is incredibly kind. I mean, we were going to start to charge you rent if you stayed any longer. It's lovely to spend time with you. But more importantly, Kevin, those are incredibly kind words. I want to say one thing about that because we keep looking for leaders. I think we're looking for the wrong thing. We need to look for leadership. Leaders are about which person is going to be anointed. Leadership is about what are you doing in the moment to show people the way. If we look for leadership, you can find a lot more of it than we expect. When you're looking for leaders, you're going to find flaws. You're going to find mistakes. You're going to find people you don't really like that much. But leadership can transcend that. That's where I think we have to start, especially this conversation. Wow. Both of you are students of history a little bit and law. When do we become this nation of charismatic followers? When I think about FDR, he's in a wheelchair, plain spoken, not very attractive, but he was able to do fireside chats and resonate with people about the things that needed to get done and they got done. Not a perfect person, but was it the invention of the camera with the Nixon and the Kennedy? Was that the moment where we lost our minds? No, we've always been this way. If you love the play Hamilton, the way they lionized Washington, people are always looking for someone who tells them what else they can be, but they can blame if we don't get there. Charisma has always been part of the trope. It's not just in politics. It's in religion. Karen, you and I know that very well. You don't have to be attractive to be compelling because we've seen a lot of folks who you're like, and so I think what we have to recognize is that in every generation, in every community, the person who can command attention is the person who's charismatic because as much as FDR was wheelchair bound, he also mastered the radio. Before that, he was a tall governor who used to stride across the stage as governor of New York and capture the public imagination. We don't necessarily look for someone who fits a phenotype. We look for someone who fits a stereotype and an archetype. That's what we follow because we think they know something we don't, and if we follow them, we'll get there and we'll get whatever it is somebody else has got. Okay. Explain having somebody that knows nothing, that doesn't read, is incurious, impassionate, doesn't have any sense of morality. This seems to go against everything that makes sense. I'm baffled that we're here. Because he creates a permission structure for the worst impulses that we have, and he makes it seem like if you do those things, you can have what he's got. This is someone who was born winning a home run but pretended that he had to run the bases and then manufactured a story to justify it. He doesn't have to be curious when he's rich. He doesn't have to be successful when he can pretend. Let's remember, he didn't become politically viable until Mark Burnett pumped him into every single home and said, if you follow what he does, you can be who he is. It's of a piece. We don't necessarily look for intellect when we look for power. We look for someone who's got something we think we want and might be willing to tell us how to get it. Stacey, you are someone who takes seriously intellect, scholarship, research. I saw you in action five years ago when I was following you around for the cover story. I saw the charisma. One of my favorite moments was, I don't remember the space in Atlanta, but it was a group of women there. It was a great group of women. They all wanted to take pictures of you. You said, let me just do this for a few minutes. You said this to them. Do you remember that scene where you just, but then you zone back and here's what we need to talk about now. How do we get back? Because I couldn't imagine five years ago when we were doing this piece, because you were in a conversation as well for possibly being the running mate of Joe Biden at the time. How did we end up here and how do we get out of this, basically, is what I'm asking. Authoritarianism rises. Let's remember, authoritarianism isn't an ideology. It's not a belief set. It's a power move. It can be used by anyone, but it tends to be used by those who feel like they don't have enough. And who are acquisitive and greedy and mean. And so that's what we see. But the way we got here was a combination of factors. In 17 years, this is a nation that is majority minority, the first time in American history. And there are those who believe that, who are Christian nationalists, who are pro-natalist, who are terrified of that moment. Then you've got technocrats. And I don't want, technocrats is probably the wrong term of art, but you've got these tech bros who think that they should be in charge of everything because they know how to program a computer. And they have been blessed with absurd amounts of wealth that they were being told wasn't enough, that they didn't get to do everything they wanted. Then you have those who are just always grounded in this deep animus towards the other. And all of these folks were given permission by Donald Trump's campaign, not by Trump himself, but by his campaign in 2016, that it was okay for you to be a misogynist, to be misogynoirist, for you to be a xenophobe. All of the things that we had been trying to weed out, or at least tamp down, was suddenly validated. Then he lost. And he had years to cultivate and curate grievance, but he also met the Heritage Foundation and a group of people who've been working since Barry Goldwater failed. They've been working to take this nation away from those who they consider unworthy of this space. He is the lodestar for all of those belief systems. They aren't the same, but they are all benefiting from his willingness to thwart and oppress and diminish everyone else. And so we got to this moment because we broke trust with each other. We went into a pandemic. We came out of recession, went into a pandemic. But more importantly, we are so different. And instead of seeing that as our superpower, there are those who see it as our kryptonite, and they are the ones who are trying to steal our nation. But let's be clear. In this last election, he got 77 million votes. Kamala Harris got 75 million. We're talking a two million vote difference. Ninety million people didn't say a word, except their silence said that they didn't know that anybody could see them or help them. And that's where our hope should be, because if we can activate a portion of that 90 million, we win. But as long as we are so focused on the 77 million who want our demise, we cannot focus on the 90 million who need our success. We're talking with Stacey Abrams. She has 10 steps to autocracy and authoritarianism. What's the difference between authoritarianism and fascism? Okay, so let's think about it this way. Fascism is ideological. Fascism believes in an ultra-nationalist story. So essentially, a fascist says it was better in the old days when there was purity, when there was uniformity, when people did what they were told. And so you typically see fascism in nation states that also want religious or racial purity. But it is an ideological belief that if we could get to the past, make America great again, Nazism, if you can get to the past, then everything's going to be fine. But the only way to get to the past is to oppress those who are in your present and to diminish their opportunity to be successful in the future. Taken to the extremes, Nazism is a form of fascism, but it's not the only one. Mussolini was a fascist. Fascism is existent in this country, and we are watching it come into being because Stephen Miller believes in fascism. He has very clearly espoused, and if you heard what he said in Arizona the other day, he very much shares this kind of fascist notion that the history of America, that the history of civilization is born by one race and one people, and that if women would go back into the households and stop trying to achieve things and let white men run the world, everything would be okay. Not every fascist, not every conservative is a fascist, but every fascist tends to have conservative right-leaning belief systems. Okay, and the power behind that is authoritarianism. That's kind of the weapon that they use to make it happen. Exactly. So you have some fascists who are totalitarian. They don't believe anybody else gets to do anything. You don't get to think anything, do anything. Authoritarianism tends to say that it's a small group of people who get to decide what everyone else does. They don't want to get rid of everybody, they just don't want anyone else to have any thoughts, feelings, ideas, or any more power. And you have kleptocracy, you have oligarchies, you have different forms of how this works, but the most important thing to know is that authoritarianism stands in opposition to democracy. Democracy says we decide. Authoritarianism says he or they decide. And so when you say we, because what I'm hearing, I think we need to move away from Democrats and Republicans because this is not what this is. This is not necessarily Republicans versus Democrats. This is not liberal versus conservative. There's something else here that is not that. I'm sorry, please. No, no. No, I was going to vehemently agree with you. So that's why I'm clear that authoritarianism is not a political ideology. I'm a Democrat, but Republicans don't want authoritarianism either. They shouldn't, as a matter of principle. So you have some people who, as a matter of principle, do not want authoritarianism. They want democracy, they just want to win every election. But in this moment, Republicans are suborning, supporting, and in some cases advancing the cause of authoritarianism because they think it will help them hold power. So the Republican Party, unless it is an active opponent of authoritarianism, is complicit in authoritarianism. And so no, authoritarianism doesn't demand that you be a Democrat or Republican, but your response to it is what we should be paying attention to. We've got some good Republicans out there who are saying, no, I need to save democracy, but you've got an entire party that is, by and large, in charge of Congress and the judiciary, as well as the White House and a lot of states who are all saying, we're all in with authoritarianism, let us know how we can help. And that's problematic. We're ready. We're prepared. Do not give in to fear. We are fearless. This is not the time to be afraid. This is a time to stand up and fight back and to resist any temptation for them to divide us. We're in this together. The rule of law is that we will not give in, not give up. We will not capitulate. We will not bow. We will not bend.