I’m 50. If You Want To Get Rich In Your 20s, Watch This.

Most people spend their 20s chasing the wrong things, and it costs them years of their life that they'll never get back. That's why I sat down with Amy Smale, founder of Odd Muse, the fashion brand she scaled to $30 million a year before turning 28. In the next few minutes, Amy shares 12 brutal truths about success, money and growth that could put you years ahead of the competition. Let's go. Here we go. The first one. So the first one is you don't have to be built for this. And this actually come up to me this week. This week in particular, I have just been feeling like maybe I wasn't built for this because I'm quite a sensitive person. I've got all these things about me that maybe on paper, if you're looking on how to be an entrepreneur, those traits aren't there. And then I had this conversation with myself where I just kind of said, but I did it anyway. I think it's the people that just do it anyway. Yes. Despite maybe not liking having difficult conversations with people, you're building a team, you're having difficult conversations every single day and you're dealing with stress, you might be super sensitive. And yeah, I kind of got in my head the other day. Like I'm not actually built to be an entrepreneur. But who decides that? That's the thing, isn't it? And it is really just the people that keep going and just do it anyway, despite not feeling they are built for this, not feeling like they can do it. I personally feel like success is guaranteed. I've read a book before called The Compound Effect, and this basically boils success down to basic science. If you eat healthy, you're going to reach your nutrition goal. If you go to the gym, you're going to reach your fitness goal. The only reason you wouldn't reach those goals is if you didn't eat healthy or if you stopped going to the gym. Persistence is key. And it's like you're actually only going to fail if you give up. And it's the people that keep going. So, yeah, I guess a really basic way of saying it is just do it anyway. But yeah, there's a lot of... You might be having a bad week where you feel like I'm not actually built for this. I don't know what I'm doing. But it's that pivotal moment where you either just start it or you just keep going. Number two, money solves problems, but it also creates new ones. And this kind of relates to... I feel like your whole business journey, you're going to be worried about the numbers. And it feels really intense at the beginning because you kind of like need that money. You need that revenue for either your first hire or even to like pay the staff that you do have. That always follows you on your journey. You might be five years into your journey and you're not hitting your growth target or you're down from last year and people are kind of like, there's that worry. So I feel like money is always going to be a bit of an issue. And I feel like I used to worry a lot at the beginning and almost feel like when I hit this point in revenue or when I used to put like a deadline on not being stressed about money anymore. But the idea is that we should always just be conscious of it. And because we are conscious of it and because we are thinking about it all the time, that's why we are able to kind of like reach our goals in revenue. I think money is actually a made up thing as well. So I spent my whole life trying to make money. And then when I made money, I was worried about losing money. So it's like, if you can just accept... You know what I've always said to myself when I first started? When I first started my business, I didn't know a lot, but I've always been a big dreamer. So I would always say to myself, money is easy. I would say that every single night, every single morning. And the way in which I would put it is if money is so easily kind of spent, why can it not be accumulated and made so easy? And there's so much money out there, too. Exactly. So I've always, whether it was like a crazy thought of mine, I've always told myself money is easy. And for those listening might be like, it's OK for you now, you've got money. No, I told myself that when I, you know, spent my whole life savings that I was going to put on a deposit. That is what made me take the risk. I was like, money is easy. This, you know, this was going to buy me a house, but it's going to come back. Money is easy. So you didn't put money down for a house you put into your business? Yes. It's literally like what I've read in my book. People have to realise that you have to put money into something that's going to make you money, not sit in a house that doesn't actually. And if you sell it, you're going to make money easily. The way I saw it was if I was going to buy a house at 23 years old, I wasn't going to start my business because all of a sudden I had a responsibility. And I think responsibilities can stop you from starting things, which is, you know, it's true. Yeah. And so, yeah, I felt like if I kind of thought to myself, I'll buy the house and then I'll start my business. I knew it wasn't going to happen for me. I've often heard you say, and for people listening, this is kind of controversial, I guess, my first million is the hardest. What nearly killed you, you said, I think. Well, tell us a little bit about that. Well, it kind of goes back to a point in my journey where I remember being so chronically stressed and mentally I was in a really bad place. But now I look back on that moment and I'm like, I'm doing things a hundred times bigger than that now. And I think that point, and it was leading up to my first million pound in revenue, that is where I actually felt my lowest and where I kind of really struggled. And now I feel like we are working on much bigger things. And if I could go back to having those problems when I was my most stressed, I honestly would. So I think my point really is that you really might feel like you're at the end of this journey and it's really not for you and you maybe can't cope. But what is coming right around the corner is this kind of like wealth of experience. You can deal with those fires ten times over again and you are just becoming an entrepreneur. Just at that very early stage, can you remember the first thing you were really stressed about? I guess it was probably like using your life savings. It was around two years into my business where I was kind of like, OK, we're doing really well online, we're going viral. I understand how short that moment is for people. And I really wanted Odd Muse to be up there with, you know, the best of the best. And I knew I had to get the brand out there in real life. So I started thinking about stores. I did London Fashion Week. And London Fashion Week was our first like in real life thing. That was the first event that I spent over like £50,000 on. And that was a lot. That was a big risk for me again. You spent £50,000 on one event? Yes. Wow. On London Fashion Week. And at that point, what was your profit sort of thing? Do you think that must have been all your profit, I'm guessing, roughly? Yes. Wow. But overnight, my orders doubled. Right. And we have experienced that every time we've done something in real life. If someone made £50,000, they'd probably keep it in the bank. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. So that risk again and again. Again and again. But when you when you signed up to it, well, there must have been a moment you're like, no, I shouldn't do this. This is too much. Events are a funny one, really, because they kind of like you set a budget and they go over and then you're kind of in too deep. So events are a little bit different. But I think, yeah, anything we've done in real life, we see so much traction and interest online as well. And it kind of doubles your brand overnight. Because people think online's enough. You're making a very important point when you're talking about social for a second. Because I have the same. Well, I just think e-commerce and there's a lot. There's a day where it's going to become saturated. And even even going into bricks and mortar, everyone kind of told me that bricks and mortar was dead after 2020 and people don't shop in store anymore. And it's like, well, how how are you ever going to be able to create that experience online that you can in person? I guess also geographically, not everyone can get to the store. So how long were you doing online before you went into the physical stores? Three years. Three years. So you spent a long time building up a base first. By the way, this is the Amazon strategy, right? Amazon built up the online and then they went and bought physical shops. They bought Whole Foods. They bought B&Q, you know, like people don't even realise. So even Amazon realised you need a physical product in the end. Well, I just think if everyone's going to be online, I'll be the person in store and you can all come to my store. It's nice. Sometimes it's risky to be different. Sometimes it's actually an advantage. None of my competitors had stores. And that's kind of the way I saw it. I wasn't looking at the way of the world right now. I was looking at what aren't people doing, not why aren't they doing it? What aren't they doing? And I'll do that. But when you say work will break you before it makes you, I think what you're actually saying is you've got to break your own self-limiting beliefs and push the boundaries each time. So in other words, don't get comfortable. Yes. If you get comfortable, that will be the real break. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. Yeah, it's the opposite. I think it's kind of interesting because a lot of people don't want stress. Yeah. And in a way, you don't grow unless you have it, right? You need to be broken. Yeah. Like push the limits to grow. Yeah. Nobody's coming to save you. And having got to know you, you are very positive. This feels a bit negative. No, my thing is that it's a real world out there. Right. Some of the problems I run into on a weekly basis, if I phone my friends and family, they'd have a heart attack. We recently did an event at the tennis. I have to say the tennis. And we wasn't allowed to post photos with the green chairs. And we accidentally did. We didn't know. No, I thought we was just able to. I thought it was just we was allowed. Did the tennis police come after you today? Yeah. Anyone who knows Obamus, this was a very big moment for us to attend this year. And I thought for about two weeks straight, I was going to get fined £100,000 and nobody was coming to save me. Even running it through chat, GBT, like what's the history on this? And they're like, well, history says around 50 to £100,000 fine. So that's what I mean. And nobody is coming to save you. Like you're going to be presented fires every single day that are totally new to you. Maybe no one in your team knows how to deal with this. Maybe no one in your family knows how to deal with this. But that doesn't mean that you get to like tap out. I think the way I'd put it more positively is no, your downside. Yeah. Right. So, you know, it's like, OK, you probably should have done your research ahead of time. You didn't. This post got this happened by mistake. So but you now know £100,000 is your downside. The question is, can you afford it? Yeah. And if you can't, innovation kicks in. You say, right, let's turn it into a positive PR moment. And you get a brand, a PR company or something big to sponsor you to deal with this moment and say you're hurting an up and coming brand because we posted a photo. And if they sue you, it's a chance to sell more product. I'm going to change it to don't panic. Yeah. Don't panic. Don't panic. You know what, though? There's nobody's coming to save you. I can really relate to because my mum kicked me out of home at 15 after my father had died. Right. And I had the same feeling. I'm like, my brothers are too young to help me. My mum has abandoned me and my father is gone. Yeah. Nobody's coming to save me. And it cried my eyes out for the longest period of time over that feeling. And then I'm like, you know what? OK, I have to do it myself. You take agency over your life and you take responsibility for your actions. It's actually liberating. That's what it links to, like owning a business is a big responsibility. And that is just the reality. Yeah. Strangers come to save you when you don't expect it, i.e. your customers. Yes. Right. I 100% promise you, if your customers found out this happened, they would rally. Yeah. Right. So maybe, you know, like in my case, you know, my mum won't save me. The people you think are going to save you don't, but the ones you don't expect do sometimes. They shock you. Right. So I like that one. But it's still, you know, no one's coming to save you, folks. If you're fucked. All right. Comparison is the theft of joy. It's so true. I think in life and business. Yeah. Because I think in business, a lot of the a lot of like old fashioned lessons are look at what your competitors are doing, what are they doing? Do something similar or do something better? And I have actually seen the most benefit in like the first five years of my business in being totally focused on what I want to do and what my business needs. I have not cared what any of my competitors are doing. I have not cared. I've also this is another thing. I've also been very comfortable with the fact that my customer doesn't exclusively wear Obmuse. And I think that's a good thing to know, like be comfortable with the fact that your customer maybe likes your business, but he or she also consumes another business that is similar and very comfortable. I'm not wearing Obmuse today. So I think that's really important because some people can go into the business world like a little bit too aggressive. It makes you a bit gatekeepy. I don't think it's good for the community that you're trying to build. And I think focusing on you and your business without any outside influence is super important. And obviously, comparison is the thief of joy in life and business. One thing I love about doing this channel is it's important to give people lots of different points of view because advice is a bit it's got to be more personal to you. Yeah, for me, I completely agree with everything you said. The one thing is I quite like having a goal and sometimes your competition can motivate you. Yes. So if I see people like, for example, I think what Stephen Barks has done in his podcast is amazing. Yeah. And so I don't compare myself to him, although I just overtook him on Instagram, just saying. But I don't, you know, I actually admire him. I consider him a friend. Yeah. But I also like having not comparison, but almost like a... Yeah, I think it's known. Someone you can improve yourself because you see. You have some like dream brands and like even dream customers and stuff like that. I guess it's just sensing what kind of when you're looking at a competitor or you're looking at someone else's business. I guess it's kind of like sensing straight away. Like, do they do they make you feel ambitious or is there something here where you're really like comparing yourself in a negative way? Actually, I'm really excited about this brand. Steve Bartlett just invested in it. We just invested in it. And they yeah, they help create because, you know, sometimes when you're a creator, you have to build a website and try and figure out e-commerce. It's like a LinkedIn bio tool that lets you run your whole digital life from it. And actually, I think for like the younger generation who want to make money from their social, you don't want to have to spend a lot of money building a website and trying to figure out e-commerce. It's expensive, actually, isn't it? I don't recommend products lightly. I just told Amy, someone I really respect about Stan's store, because I want her to know how useful these products are. And you need to know you can use this product to book your calls. It even integrates with LinkedIn. It helps you make money and reduces your cost. It can remove all products you're probably using right now. Loads of products are costing huge monthly amounts of money. And you can use this product for a fraction of the cost. Stan works for any business at any stage. Whether you're selling a simple $10 e-book or booking $200 coaching calls, you can sell it directly through Stan. It's the engine under the hood that powers the sale of any digital product in your business. Plus, I've managed to secure through John, the founder of this company, a 30-day free trial for you to try out. And yes, I'll make money if you use the product from an affiliate income from it. And I will use that money to fund dreams just like yours. So it's a win-win. And if you download this product today, I promise you, within a week, you'll be thanking me. It will save you money and make you money. Go check it out. Rejection is your education. Let's talk about this, because I think I always frame it up as like failure is good. That's what people hear a lot, right? So it feels like a different take on that. So I think with me over the years, a lot of people's experience with Bobmuse is that it's been super positive. But I've had loads of buyers tell me, no, that I've had big dreams. I've flown to New York to meet with a buyer and it's, you know, it's actually happened now. But it's taken me two years to get this through the line. There's just been a few times where rejection has really changed my direction for the better. There was definitely a version of me before I started business that would really hide from rejection and feel really embarrassed. And it would really stop me from moving on to the next step. But now, I mean, I always say like I love learning and I feel like rejection is a lesson always. And we have to keep learning that we're not. We're never going to get to a point where we know everything. And I think we spoke about this earlier. Kind of every day is a school day. I think in this fifth year of business, I'm kind of really like welcoming rejection. And even from like a product perspective, you might do so. I've had collections in Obmuse that have done terrible and have really, really knocked my confidence, but have steered the brand in such an amazing way and changed it all over again. So I remember when we did a collection in 2022, I did a huge party in L.A. for it. It was way, I spent every single penny in my bank account to do this party. And the next day, it didn't sell anything. And I was like, what's happened? Because I've flown to L.A., I've done this big event, I've paid for people from selling Sunset to be there. It's a huge risk and it hasn't worked. And that was a point where I was like, people really don't like that product. And that's OK. And product is really important and it's more than PR. And it's funny, I now actually use that story a lot on my TikTok account. So going back to what you said, where it's like if you're in a bit of a disaster, definitely speak on it. But yeah, there's just been so many points where that knocks my confidence on doing summer collections for years. And last year, our resort collection grossed like £500,000 in the first hour. And it's like because I went into the next summer knowing that she doesn't like sequins and she doesn't like all this stuff that I did last summer. So I think, yeah, rejection is your best lesson. Easy said, though, because a lot of people are like, I'd rather not fail, right? I'd rather not lose my money. But the best way to learn is by doing something. Absolutely. And that's true if you succeed and true if you fail, right? Yeah, absolutely. Burnout is real, but it's different for everyone. Right. And I think there's a lot of content online for entrepreneurs and for people that are maybe... I mean, my case was I was building odd news alongside a full time job. Definitely. I've had that a few times. And the content online is kind of like, you know, take a break and stuff like that. That doesn't work for me. I need to just like get it all done and then definitely take that break. But you can't just like... I mean, this is me personally, and I think my point is it is different for everyone. Work out what burnout is for you and how you know that you're burnout. Because sometimes you might just be like, I've had plenty of days that are just like a bad day at work that I've branded burnout. What do you think is burnout? If you would categorise it as a symptom? I think burnout for me is obviously like being super stressed. But it's also burnout for me is when I'm really not enjoying my job anymore because I started my business because I love fashion and I love what I do and I love creating. And burnout for me is when I'm not feeling creative. So sometimes it doesn't look like I can't get out of bed today. I'm so stressed. Don't talk to me. Sometimes it is. I'm not my most creative self. I'm not in the best place right now for my business. Sometimes it's not just like getting away from your business. I think it's for me, it's falling back in love with my business. And for me, for example, I love working on new projects. So like when we do the stores, I love working towards projects. I get a little bit burnt out and uncreative when I'm kind of on my laptop all the time and I'm like fixing loads of things. So for me, I always like to make sure that at the end of the year, we always have a big moment. So like this year, we're opening like a huge second store in London. We're actually opening a store on Yvonne Street. Right. Wow. And there's not a brand like Odney's on that street. That's so exciting. And it's like none of my customers have ever been able to shop there regularly. I can't shop there regularly. And it's kind of welcoming them down that we can shop on Yvonne Street. And I think if I didn't have that big product to look forward to, I do feel like I get really kind of like burnt out. You need winning moments to lift you up, right? Because again, I'm always conscious of the whole like entrepreneurship. You know, everyone should do it, which is a little bit my message. But I'm actually kind of saying it's the journey that's fun. Yeah. And there will be highs and lows because a lot of people tell me they want to be happy, right? I think you can't be happy all the time. Yeah. That's a dangerous thing to desire. I think better to have like a mission and on that mission, you have highs and lows, but you need to have a mission. Yeah. In our team, we always say like one thing that kind of before was achieved today. It can be a small thing that we helped one person today or you help someone feel good in their workplace today because that little win can actually help you get through the week. Yeah. And then hopefully, as you say, like a one big win, like a new store opening up. Yeah. All this pain becomes worth it, right? And I also think as well at the beginning, I was really kind of like burnt out and overwhelmed because everything at the beginning is so new. So I guess it's kind of like normalising that and kind of like being a bit treacherous because I knew straight away in those first three years when I was getting super overwhelmed, the sacrifice was that I had to keep going. I didn't have time for burnout in those first three years. Like I genuinely didn't. Which in itself can actually be quite useful. Yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's kind of like different for everyone. Like if you kind of like stop in your tracks and have to stop because you're burnt out in the beginning stages, that might not be the best thing for your business. So I think it is that that moment where you kind of like keep going and constantly reassess what burnout is is to you. Yeah. And kind of how you need to deal with it, because it's not maybe what you see online, where it's kind of like so much self-care and like taking some time out. But it might be, but it also might not be. This leads us on to something I know myself, having built a lot of companies. You outgrow people. Yeah. And I think that's OK. Because I feel like, especially when you're starting something and you have a startup. I remember first when people started to leave odd views. I mean, it hasn't happened loads, but I took that so to heart. Yeah, I cried the first person left me in my company. I mean, I still cry, but I take it so personally. And it's actually OK for people to be on a different path. It's actually OK for people to prefer that kind of like messy startup vibe where they're across a lot of things and they maybe don't want that structure of a scaling business. Some people really welcome senior management. That's kind of my first experience, because I I've had like the same two best friends forever, and I haven't really experienced outgrowing people in my business because in my life. Sorry, because everyone from the start of music has been really supportive. And I'm very blessed. Like I've got the same friends. I've got the same boyfriend. But I've had a really good experience. So coming into a phase where of muses growing up and people want it to be how it was in year one and two. That's fine. And that's also going to happen again and again, because, you know, it's not just your journey. It's theirs as well. It's the people that are on this journey with you. They have their own journey and they have their own dream. And I think it's kind of accepting that. And that's like something that I kind of struggled with because, you know, I get really attached to like people, especially if they've been with me for a long time. I think this is so important. I mean, I love business because it actually relates a lot to life as well. Right. You will like the people I went to school with. They're probably listening right now. We're probably not going to be friends anymore. They stayed in the same town. They didn't go. I went and lived in Hong Kong, which doesn't make me better or worse than them. I'll make that clear. But like I just have a completely different view on the world because of my life experiences. Yeah. So when I go back to my hometown, which is Sydney, it's and I talk to people I was friends at school with and I say, I love Hong Kong. Why don't you go back there then? I probably will. You know, but then you feel that tension. It's like I'm not saying I don't like where I came from, but I've changed. Yeah, we do change. Yeah. People say people don't change. You do. Your life experiences will shape you. And that's OK. And I think, yeah, that that is a hundred percent going to happen for you more in business than it actually does life. I feel like there's a turning point in life where that happens. But in business, it can happen every single year, every single day. It depends how your business is and how many people are there. Number nine, and this is a big thing for me, is success can feel lonely. And and that really stems from going through a lot of stress and feeling like I don't know who to pick up the phone and and and call about this. So like not really being able to like, for example, my mom and dad really worry about my outgoings of the business. I had a situation in Dubai where I put a huge deposit down on a store that basically wasn't ever going to happen. Oh no. And I lost a lot of money. And there was like a week where it was like I didn't know if I was committed to like paying this like rent for 10 years that I couldn't afford at the time. That is not a problem that any of my friends are having. That is not a problem. Like my mom and dad would panic so much if I rang them. They wouldn't know what to say. So I think there's part of it where people can kind of pat you on the back, but they really can't say it's going to be OK. And I think that creates quite a lonely feeling. But what I'm noticing now is all these points we're talking about are interlinking. Yeah. If you failed at something, then you realize you need someone. Yeah, I think being lonely to me is also who builds resilience to that point. However, I think as entrepreneurs, we often put ourselves through pain we don't need. There's people that are more successful than me in social media. And I'm trying to not name drop them. But I have now begged them to help me. And they have. And I think that's the other thing. Asking for help is really hard. Especially, you know, like I'm supposed to be a business guru, for example, like and I'm admitting I don't know something to anybody else. It's kind of like, oh, I don't know that. Yeah. But asking for help is so hard. I mean, actually giving help is easy, easier. I know. If you ask me for help, I'll do it straight away. I agree with that. Would I ask you for help? I'd be like, oh, I'm scared to ask, you know. Yeah. But when you do do it, people really respect it. Yeah. It's the hardest things to ask for help. And I think lonely is definitely happens for entrepreneurs. There's a lot of entrepreneurs that are very lonely. I think, though, if you think about entrepreneurs generally, if you ask them for help, they will help you. People need to reach out more. Yeah. So I don't think it's who you know, it's who you ask. People won't understand you. This I can really relate to. Tell us, tell us your insight here. I think it just links to like an idea of being crazy until it's not. Yeah. Until it's done and until it's successful. It sounds super crazy. Like me launching a fashion brand was like, I remember telling people at Asos that I was launching a fashion brand and I was so embarrassed and people did not get it. People were kind of like, I think people were definitely expecting me to maybe be back there one day or anything like that. Most people aren't going to understand what you're kind of saying. And I carried a lot of embarrassment. I remember the first time I launched Odd News. This is another thing as well. The first few months of business feel so embarrassing. Like I remember launching my first collection and it didn't necessarily go that well. And I was living at my boyfriend's at the time and his family would be like, oh, did you sell out today? And I'd be like, no, I'm just going to go upstairs and cry. And my family would do the same. I'd get a call from my mum. Did you sell out today? No. And you kind of have to... They're doing it because they love you, but it's also a bit of pressure. Absolutely. They're so excited for you. They want to know how your day's been. The intention is so pure. But it feels so embarrassing. And yeah, a lot of people don't really understand what you're doing. And even saying no, like my mum would panic. Oh, God, she's not sold anything today and stuff like that. So I think most people don't understand what you're doing until it really, really works. And it's going to feel kind of like embarrassing explaining yourself. Do you think also you don't understand yourself yet because you're going through a journey that you haven't got to the other side yet? So even although you believe in your idea, there's also an element of like you're discovering your own resilience, your ability, you're discovering your own ability in general. Because we have limiting belief systems as well, right? A lot of us don't think we can do it until we do it. Number 11 is you question everything and that's normal. And this is actually something that's come up for me this week. I was literally putting in chat to EBT this week. My business has hit 30 million. I told them... Woohoo! That's a big moment. I told them, well, we did 30 million in 2024. And this year we're kind of like every other year we've been 200% on the year. Difference between £500,000 to a million is different between 30 million to 35 million, for example. So the growth feels a little bit slower, although I kind of wanted that at the beginning of the year. And I'm putting through chat to EBT, my business is at 30 million. I think we'll do similar numbers this year. Is that bad? Should I be running the company? Should I get someone in? Is my experience able to take me to that next level or have I reached my cap? And I have moments like that every single week. The point is that you just have these moments of panic where you can't sleep and you'll question everything. And it's not... You know, I didn't wake up this morning and quit because last night I was asking AI if I'm capable enough to keep scaling this company. The point is I had a moment last night and it's very, very normal. And you'll question everything, like back to the detail. I'm telling them my age, my experience, everything I've done in the last five years and asking someone, can I continue to do this? And I think, yeah, my point is it's normal to be so in the detail and question everything. It's so amazing to hear you say this stuff because there aren't many people that are documenting the journey like you're documenting it. Because most people I know that have made it, they're documenting what happened in a very kind of like dreamy sense. But that self-doubt thing, it's so powerful. I've documented so much self-doubt. It's so great. I'm the poster child for like normalising like being really sensitive in business and not knowing what's going. Like I have made myself that person from day one because I'm not trying to make it look easy. But what I love about the way you explain this is because I think a lot of people when they see entrepreneurship, they think it's this magical thing and somehow they can't do it because it's about total belief and total self-confidence, which is what you hear all the time. There is an element of that, but there's also this kind of questioning, how can I be better? What am I doing wrong thing that really sharpens you up, right? And I think it's just people listening, people's 100% listening to this right now, having self-doubt. And they'll think that that's not normal and they're not cut out for it. That's exactly how you get better. It's part of your story. It's so powerful. Okay, the final thing, let's talk about it. Overnight success takes years, 100%. A lot of people, by the way, think that I'm big on social media in the last year. I've been doing it for five years. Everyone thinks that about Obmuse. I was planning Obmuse on my commute to ASOS every single day for two years. How long ago did you start? I started planning it in 2018. I launched it in 2020. Within three months, we reached £100,000 in revenue. So everyone kind of thinks that we are this kind of overnight success, but there was so much work that went into it. And one thing people don't talk about is how hard it is to maintain. Do you know how many people have gone viral and had overnight successes and not been able to maintain it? A lot. Maintaining it is the hardest thing. I got a bit of momentum in 2020, and I promise you I have not stopped since then. You took the luck and you ran with it. That's one of the hardest things. People don't take the luck and run with it. So many people. We had an experience where a really, really big influencer picked us up, and I knew from the get-go it kind of had to be her. It was meant to be. She actually purchased the blazer and posted about it completely organically. So that set me up for an even bigger moment. And a lot of people go back to that moment like, oh, Obmuse is only this because Lorna Lux posted about her. And Lorna Lux has said in many podcasts, that is not the case. And what I did was, yeah, I had a bit of luck. I had a momentum. She loved my product enough to buy it, so there's something I did there. But I have not let conversation about Obmuse die since that moment. This luck thing, I tell you, everyone does actually get a bit of luck. I have a theory you get luck eight times, by the way, in business. You get it. And if you miss one, it's a growth opportunity missed. But that is so important, what you're saying there. Maintaining it is all about momentum and in my head even, I was 23 years old when that happened and she wore it. We took like £60,000 in one day and I'm sitting on the sofa at home looking at my mum and dad, looking at my iPad like, what's going on here? And I didn't know anything about business then, but all I told myself is, people are going to talk about Obmuse and what we're doing every single day. And if I sense conversations dying out, I'm spending everything on a party in LA. I'm spending everything to open a store when everyone's telling me not to. Tell me once people have stopped talking about it for a week, so we can have a party. That's a pretty good strategy. I just think it's such an important thing to end this education on. You know, people need to really leverage the opportunities ahead of them and say yes to more things and no to some things. But like, really kind of, I'm reading your text here, which I really love. Getting there is hard, staying there is harder. Powerful. Yeah. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Thank you so much for having me on. Honestly, fantastic. 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