He Sold His Company to Break Poverty Forever | Dr. Abraham George

I sold my company to a Fortune 500 firm. Before I turned 50, I came to India in this remote village to embark on the work I'm doing which is uh bringing up children from the most deprived backgrounds uh to be successful and uh capable of um competing in the global marketplace. >> Welcome to Super Entrepreneurs Podcast. I'm your host Shahed Dani. Our guest today is Dr. Abraham George, founder of Shanti Bavan Children's Project. After building a successful finance company in the US, he made a dramatic pivot back in 1995 to actually dedicate himself to breaking the cycle of poverty through education. His boarding school, Shanti Baban, provided provides world-class education to children from most impoverished communities. His work was featured in the awardwinning Netflix documentary Daughters of Destiny, and he's the author of I Spark Change. Welcome to our show, Abraham. >> Thank you, Shah. Thank you for asking me to appear on your show. >> No, no, my pleasure. My pleasure. you're doing such great things and your cause is so wonderful. Um, you know, and and providing that kind of support to children is honorable and is isp aspiring to to many of us coming on this show, sharing your vision, sharing your past, what you learned, your lessons. Um, that's gold for us. So grateful to have you on the show. So from, you know, you went from Himalayas to MBA. You spent, you know, 11 months at 14,000 ft up in the mountains and you had a serious dynamite accident as well. That's an incredibly intense way to start your career. So, how did you, you know, how did you going through something so extreme so early influence your thinking about what you wanted to do in life? What made you decide to pursue MBA at that time? Well, I was just 18 when I was commissioned as an officer in the Indian artillery and sent up to the Himalayas very close to the Chinese border. And uh our job, you know, it was soon after the Chinese invasion of India. And our job was to set up artillery gun positions so that the Chinese couldn't come through. And I was blowing up with my soldiers uh you know the mountains to make bunkers. And in that process at the end of 11 months uh I got blown up. You know it was just a fraction of a second saved my life. If I fired and noticed that uh the detonator was extremely close to the light and uh I turned around and jumped and it blasted right behind me and I was injured badly but I recovered. So I asked myself the simple question that why was I saved and that must be a good reason and I had by then travel around India quite a lot and had seen what poverty is like uh don't forget in uh that you know in 197578 [Applause] period India was extremely poor the you know you had famine all the time and a great majority 90% of the people uh literally starving. Uh and u and so I had seen that and the other aspect was social injustice. You know the cast system as everyone knows uh was very prevalent and I felt that um I should devote a good part of my life at some stage later on if I have an opportunity to contributing to alleviating poverty and bringing about social justice for some of the people who are deprived. So that was the turning point. But then I had read couple of books by Albert Schwitzer who wrote reverence for life and won a Nobel Prize serving in Africa. Then I had also read Betron Russell who said uh in one of the lines he said there's nothing right about war. It's about who is left. Oh that line caught me and I asked myself what am I doing in the military killing and learning to kill people. I know no military is a noble profession. Somebody has to do that job. But it was not my calling. So I decided that I'll get out of the army as quickly as possible. uh and I was able to do that after two three years of you know trying to do that and came to the United States and as you pointed out I did a couple of masters and a doctoral at NYU uh Stern and launched my career with JP Morgan and then established my own company which lasted for 25 years before I came to America. So that's the sort of background you know I came I came from business from military business to now you can call me a social entrepreneur is what you call me. >> Yeah. Sorry you're cutting up there. What was the last part? >> I said you could you could uh today I am not a business entrepreneur in the true sense. uh I am I am a social entrepreneur working with the poor and many I find that many of the qualities you need uh in business apply to social work as well. >> Mhm. Of course all uh people you know people make the business right it's not just the brick and mortar it's the actual people that that are the the the power behind the business. So, no, it's wonderful to hear your story. It's really um it's it's amazing actually to be in a position to to to get to meet people with these type of histories. You know, it's really incredible. Um and look where you you are and where I am and we're able to talk. It's it's incredible. So, you know, running a boarding school or a nonprofit has its own obvious challenges, right? So, how do you keep yourself mentally strong when it compares to, you know, compared to to being where you were before and where you are now? Has has your approach from the past helped you to manage what you do today? >> Well, that's a good question. From that early age of 18, I made the decision that I will one day serve people who need help. But it took a long time 25 years of business carrier you need to make some money before you can do something you know substantial and so I had to wait and in doing that uh during that period I was planning what how I will address the problem and in my doctoral work I did you know developmental economics and things like that and I learned uh I came to the conclusion that uh social discrimination which affected uh you know was is a concern to me cannot be eliminated without the people who are suffering uh have economic opportunity to succeed in life. the so-called lowass uh in a nice way uh you know the impact is small but if they are successful they have good careers they live in good you know homes and bring up their children well they can break the cycle of disadvantage social and economic so that was my model and so I made the decision somewhere along during that period that I made enough money I I sold my company to a Fortune 500 firm and before I turned 50, I came to India in this remote village to embark on the work I'm doing which is uh bringing up children from the most deprived backgrounds uh to be successful and uh capable of um competing in the global marketplace. Uh I want them to succeed on merit. I want them to do well. you know they are as you pointed out in Stamford uh Princeton and Harvard and places like that it has never happened in the history of India you know children who live in one room hut ending up there not one so many of them and and how many so you have ca you have stories of such >> yes yes they are all very very interesting story I'm sad stories but very interesting where they came from. A good majority of them don't have fathers. Uh they they are in these huts as I pointed out one room huts and without kitchen, bathroom and all that. And we bring them out from the age of four and uh they are able to live in in in any society. The you know they live two worlds. They go back to their hearts. uh during vacation time but then they are in a modern environment uh in the school. So that adjustment they do. >> Amazing. Just incredible. Wow. So you know you always you mentioned in the past that you cannot build a nonprofit or this type of boarding school with money alone. You have to build it with heart. um in your day-to-day operation, how do you balance the need for you know measurable results with that heart centered leadership, >> right? It's a very good question. Money alone cannot create institutions like this. You have to give your heart. You have to love the children you bring out and uh so you have to be there for them. I made a choice that I leave my business as I said sold to a fortune 500 close to everything came here put all my money into uh several projects this is not the only one chandivan is one of them you know we had farming for empowering women of the villages we had I was in your professions uh was running the best journalism college journalism college in India the Indian institute of journalism um a rural rural hospital. And one other thing I found that the pollution was very bad during the late '90s and I worked with CDC and World Bank and others to test lead in blood of children and found that nearly half the children living in Indian cities had elevated levels of lead unacceptable levels of lead. held a conference. 25 countries appeared there for the conference and at the end of the conference the three Indian oil companies the the general managers came over and announced that in 18 months they will remove lead and in 2000 June lead was removed from gasoline in India and this is not something that people know me for but that's one of the things I accomplished. I went from one project to another but Shanti was always there. Yeah, that's great. Have you looked at creating these organizations in in other countries like you know for example even in America or Canada you know there's children that need help I guess. Yeah, it is true. um you know the slums and many areas of the United States there is poverty and but the rules and regulations are a little harder you know uh here the children are literally handed over to us a day four and we can bring them the way we want there you know the parental involvement and and you know you have drug use at home they they go home so it's hard dollar doesn't buy much you know rupee buys a lot And so you you need a lot of money. I have to be Bill Gates or something to do something like that. Even then it's very expensive. Uh Africa may be a good choice. South America would be a good choice. But then the language issue is there. >> Yeah, that's true. Yeah. >> And I could speak three four langu I could speak three four languages so I could get along. It's not necessary that you have to know the language. You know if you really have the heart for it, people will realize that you mean what you say. even though they may not understand everything there. So you can you can you can do this work in uh for example. >> Yeah. And and the world is changing too, right? Because I feel like the borders are are slowly going to be removed. I'm speaking in sense of technology based right not like actual politics and all that kind of stuff. I'm saying asper technology with AI any individual from any background can communicate with anybody in any corner of the world in any language like this now you know and that's that is >> remotely yeah remotely correct >> yeah and remotely you know compassion and action uh in your books in your book I spark change and really great great name uh I might add so you talk about moving beyond just feeling empathy to actually creating real impact. I love that. So for entrepreneurs who want to make a difference and you know many of us do especially the you know the ones that are going on a path of more conscious entrepreneurship it means a lot to us. What are few practical frameworks you would recommend for turning that compassion into actual strategic action? >> It's a very interesting question to answer. You know, I as I said, I was an entrepreneur myself, Wall Street and so on for 25 plus years. Your your reason for wanting to serve the poor could be a religious calling. Uh you know, you want to serve u and some people post some other reason they they think that they should give some money to a cause and help them do and somebody else does it for you. uh and there are others who occasionally come and visit and spend some time volunteer that's another way of serving all those are fine and I think corporations in my opinion should encourage all of those uh I think companies with a heart and not just business uh you know ideas of good management good marketing uh good innovation all of that are very important and we learned that in school and colleges and so on that's all fine but I think if uh the people who work especially at the top they have a heart for making a better world and they are willing to offer services through their company's power I think it will help their business a great deal they will build a rep reputation for their own companies they will be seen as uh people uh or a company that care about their citizens, their employees and I think the market will react to that. There are number of companies who have that reputation. So I would say uh you know businesses ought to think at the empathy factor. Don't always talk about AI and all of that. Talk about the empathy factor. how they can also be empathetic to the predicament of the poor and if they do that well either by uh employing people like us the NOS's or contributing to um organizations that are doing work in their areas of interest uh I think the world will be a better place >> that's beautiful I commend you for what you're You know it's wonderful especially coming on podcast giving your time like this it means a lot to share what you've been doing. One another question that comes to mind is you know we know the importance of our belief system. You know what we believe is possible for us and what we can achieve. Knowing that your kids have gone to you know multinational companies they have they've you know educated at the top institutions do you work on their subconscious mind in any way through your program? >> Absolutely. It's very very important. You know we are doing all this work not to make them millionaires. >> Oh amazing. >> That is not our goal. No, but >> they have to have >> just to be stand. >> They must >> Yeah. They have to reach out to others who have a need. So we tell them in your lifetime you must help 100 others the same way as you were helped by anonymous people donors all over the world who haven't seen you, haven't met you. So you just can't be selfish and think about your success. uh when you start making money, think about how you can serve. And if we had 100 Shanti bowins, 100 shanti boans and we turn out thousands of kids every year and they in turn turn out hundreds of others the world you know at least the country or wherever they serve would be far benefited. So this is something we talk to them almost every other day. Uh I have um today I canceled it but normally they they have a chat session with me chat session with me at this time and we sit around with the highest grade and talk about their value system what they should be doing when they are successful. Of course you got you know things like being humble uh be caring be generous you know there are so many topics we talk about and those topics those topics are different from uh leadership qualities intercommunication management techniques all that we learn in business but the human element of this uh we don't teach that in school uh we expect the parents to teach and the parents have other interests They want them to make a lot of money. Who is going to teach them? And in our case, we have these children captive for 24 hours a day. For 10 months in a year, two months, they go on vacation home. And so 10 months, I have them with me. I spend a great deal of time. So are the others. Uh many of the other leaders who talk constantly. So hopefully they will be good good human beings. Good quot you know. Well, it's if if you're working with them at that age, um, and talking about that stuff is creating those those, you know, pathways, right? They're creating the neurological pathways in them that they'll know, you know, I have to take I need to take care of another 100 people. That doesn't stop at 100 people. Just an idea behind it, right? To serve others. when you reach somewhere you know it's just that idea that 100 can amplify into a million it does that's not the point the point is that you're instilling that belief system in them that first is they are able to do a lot in their life and then hence they're able to help others with what they have achieved so amazing beautiful work thank you so over the years >> right rightly said Shahid uh the point is this that you have to um bring them up from a very young age. If you try that after they cross 18, 20, it's very difficult. Mind is set. But if you catch them at age four and bring them up with this idea, the ch there is a greater probability that when they have the opportunity, they'll do something good. >> Yeah. No, it's absolutely true. And for us, you know, it's definitely possible for over 18 year olds when the when the the whole programming is done. It just like you mentioned is it it requires a lot more dedication and and effort on the students part to make those changes within. You know there's a lot of u it's a it's a basically a choosing a different path is possible but it's only for the people that really really believe that this is the the thing to do for their future is to work on their you know internal world. So this is great that at a young age that's when the subconscious is molding and you you got them at the right time. This is incredible. So you could expand this into you could expand this into you know hundreds and thousands of students. Um I guess one thing uh might be stopping you but can you point out some things that may be stopping you from expanding to a large scale where this kind of you know change in the world is possible through people like you. You know we shouldn't stop at 15,000 right. So is there any any thing that's stopping you or is there anything that you you're planning to do to expand it bigger? Anything on that line that you can share? >> Yeah, certainly. Uh we just opened our second school and uh within three four years we want to open the sec school but that is a crawling pace but there are hundreds if not thousands if not millions of people with tremendous wealth. So financial resources are there and somehow we have to convince them that doing this in their personal interest they will find a purpose in life they will find lot of satisfaction and they have contributed to the world uh it's not making money for its own sake. So if that communication can be done and you're doing that through this podcast and if that communication can be done that there will be a lot more people who are going to spend the money. Then the second question is will they stick to the mission and uh it can't be for making money. We don't have anything and and you have to address the poorest first and go up you know and there are hundreds of millions of people who are in extreme poverty. So that uh bringing them up uh is a major effort, a major effort because their family background everything you know you have to train them from the start and one of the things that I would love to do financial resources allowed me have in an institution catering to how to run a school like this and if someone wants to put in few million dollars like this I would try I will teach their managers. I will bring them to the school and let them stay here for two three months. See, and then go and start your own and we'll go and monitor them. Uh so all this possible but people have to have the heart and the determination to embark on something like this. So Abraham in a way could be an institution where um philanthropists or entrepreneurs send their manager send people or they go themselves to learn how to establish a school like yourself with management the stu you know the the the curriculum and the staff and all that good stuff that comes with that and establish them in different parts of the world in their own communities. For example, in Africa, someone could join and set something up. Um, that's a that's a very noble idea. >> I do get letters from people from different countries. Will you come over there and spend time? Will you teach us? I would love to do that. But first, they have to convince me that a they have the financial resources. Secondly, they have the leadership. And third, people are willing to put their time. If they do that then I'm willing to go there before I get awfully old. Uh but I can send my managers too. But they should come and spend time uh with us and learn on the ground. Uh and if they really are committed and they have the ability to do that and there are a lot of other aspects they happen to be a businessman so they run a business and this is can be thought of as another business with a heart. That's the only difference and if they have that >> yeah business with the heart >> anyway. >> So in in your overall in your years in your experience what strategic decisions do you think had the biggest ripple effect in your success? >> The strategic decision the main one you have to be honest about your mission. You cannot in between say oh let me make some money have rich kids in my school you know all these kinds of things you have to uh confine to your mission and you have to be absolutely determined that's no matter what it is regardless of setbacks you are going to pursue it and I made a decision after I came here 30 years ago that I'm going to be relentless about what I want to achieve which is you know what we talked about so far. So that is uh you know I don't know whether it's a strategic decision that is that is something that you have to stick to. Second, uh you are unlikely to find all these IV league guys and all working here. You know, you have to work with uh people, staff who are themselves not all that rich. U but you have to train them. You have to make them people who want to serve. And so you have to spend a lot of time on the staff. In fact, I would argue bringing up the children is much easier much easier than training the staff. Uh and so we spend a great deal of time uh training training the children I mean training the staff uh to bring up the children the right way. And the children have to feel loved. They have to feel dignity. They have to have self-confidence. they have to, you know, be able to move in any society, you know, to bring all those things together. Uh it's a it's a challenge and everything you do, uh there is no compromise on these types of issues. >> Yeah. Well said. Well, Abraham, it was an honor speaking to you. I appreciate your time today. Um, I know you must have a busy schedule as well and I'm grateful that you took the time to come on this show, share your mission and for audience, if anybody's listening and you hear what Abraham is talking about and you have this care for children, definitely get in touch with them and see if you can support his cause or amplify it in other ways that we talked about today. Um, at the end of the day, they're the future and the more we put into them, the better the world will be. So, I appreciate you, appreciate the audience. Thank you.