Why the CCP Is Collecting Your Biological Data | Rep. Neal Dunn

the idea of actually murdering someone to take their organs and give [music] them to somebody else. You can actually make an appointment for a heart lung transplant in China [music] right now. I want to make that illegal. It's very tough to talk about organ harvesting with anybody even in Congress. And the reason for [music] it is people are they shrivel away from it when you say let's talk about organ harvesting. They just looked down at the floor, gag, and walk [music] away. >> Congressman Neil Dunn of Florida is a former US Army surgeon and now a member of the House Select Committee on the Chinese Communist Party. >> There is no doubt that the Chinese People's Liberation Army [music] has a biological warfare effort. They write about it in their own communication. They're gathering biological data on all of us. Remember, [music] SARS KV2 had not yet been fully weaponized. They were just studying it. [music] They had just made it more viralent, more contagious. They hadn't gotten around to tailoring it to [music] your DNA so that it would be much more likely to say get a Caucasian and get an Asian. This is American Thought Leaders and I'm Ya Kell. Congressman Neil Dunn, such a pleasure to have you on American thought leaders. >> Thank you so much for having me on. So, President Trump has come back from Asia with the trade deal. Um, there's a reprieve on the export controls for rare earths for a year. Um, there's soybeans that are going to be sold. What What's your take on what happened with this trade deal? >> He survives. He thrives on making deals and uh so he's made another deal and I think this is a good one. I mean, we we actually uh we always competing with China and they are they're often abusing the trade laws, but uh the rare earths are something that we found are absolutely critical and the free world really isn't ready to source its own uh rare earths yet. Now, we only got a one-year reprieve, so we need to get out there and hustle in terms of making it. And I think there's some good news there for for us. What's the good news? I mean, it seems like the CCP is exerting significant leverage here. That never >> they are. They have it. They actually have significant le leverage. The fact that they would enter into a one-year deal kind of says that number one, they probably won't go after Taiwan for a year. That's good news. But two, back [clears throat] home, we gives us time to ramp up and go after our own uh rails. Now, we I know what you're thinking. It takes 30 years to permit a mine. Yes. But we actually have discovered uh a way to get about half of all the rarers and critical minerals out of the tailings of mines that have already been mined. So you can go to like the phosphate mines in Florida and you can pulverize those tailings and then apply very high magnetic fields and separate out things like germanmanium and uh a number of other the 30 of the elements. Uh you can just kind of drag them out of the uh the tailings. You know, it strikes me like we need a an actual operation warp speed for >> Good point. In fact, I'm going to suggest it. I may give you credit. [laughter] >> Well, it's sort of this is a defining issue. I mean, and we from what I understand, we actually sold our companies, American companies that were doing all this kind of stuff, building these rare earth magnets and so forth to the CCP with the, you know, CPA. >> Absolutely true. Yeah. We, you know, we we c we invented this stuff and then we outsourced its uh its uh supplies for for all of it and the refining of it. There's other elements to this deal. We've also got soybeans uh being sold. Um how how serious do you think will the Chinese Communist Party be in terms of actually affecting what they said they were going to do? Well, uncharacteristically for these deals with China, they've actually put a hard number on what they're going to do. And the hard numbers were 12 million tons, metric tons of soybeans before the end of the year and 25 million tons a year for three years. So, that's a pretty, you know, straightforward number. And we and you can be certain that for those three years Trump will be uh reminding them [laughter] of what their promises were. >> Well, the other piece is a lot softer which is about fentinel trying to affect uh you know some sort of limits on the fentinel but this is a promise I think that was made under Obama if I recall. >> Yes. And it honestly we saw a you know sort of a dip in the fentanyl but it was just a dip you know and now it's back with a vengeance and the fentanyl of course includes all of the analoges of fentanyl which are often far worse than fentanil itself. It's hard to imagine drugs that have more affinity for the opioid receptor than than fentanyl has but the analoges can be a thousand times stronger. So what's going on with fent how do you view fentinel from the vantage point of being a member on the select committee on the Chinese Communist Party? >> So fent I we absolutely needed to do something about fentanyl and I'm so you know frankly glad that Trump has uh jumped in with both feet to stop this uh this strike. It's it's uh you know it's killing 100,000 Americans a year. That's that's a ungodly number. That's more than the entire Vietnam War every year killed. And the other thing is not all of these people are actually sort of the dead head dead end junkies. I mean these you could have some kid buy a little marijuana and it's laced with fentanyl and he dies. Well, a number of analysts I've had on this show who know what they're talking about tell me that the CCP could cut this fentinel flow off, you know, relatively quickly. No question they could do it because they don't allow it in their country. They know how to stop it. They know where it comes from. And it's a very much of a command and control economy they got there. So they're this is the truth about the CCP. They use this as a money laundering operation. >> You know, send the cartels uh the precursors. The cartels, pay them back in dollars. Well, I I mean, in addition to wiping off tens of thousands of military-aged males off the map every year, >> it's you mean, you know, I'm a doctor, by the way, in real life. And we used to see these things and I actually use fentanel only on terminal patients, frankly, so hospice type style. And it is an incredibly powerful drug. Uh, one little 25 microgram, not milligram, microgram patch. uh is usually very very potent of pain relief. >> Do you think the CCP is actually going to this time after making this promise a number of times actually going to enact it? >> Well, you know, the CCP does what they think they have to do to get along in the world, and they don't really care about getting along too much, but uh Trump can be pretty uh persuasive and demanding, and I think that's what you need. you need somebody who's going to herang them. Uh so, you know, yes, we've got this agreement. You're not living up to the agreement. I need more. I need to see more. And of course, Trump at the other end, he's punishing the cartels in ways that we never did before, which I cheer on. I I think we should all be cheering that on. Uh it's uh you know, so he's he's making it a pretty expensive operation for them. So, right now, probably the last thing you want to be seeing is a pitch from Yan. But I want to encourage you to subscribe to the Epoch Times. It is how we keep the lights on. It is how we keep these interviews coming. Just hit the link below and subscribe to the Epoch Times. >> So, as we were talking uh about doing this interview, you said something to me about the purpose of this select committee, which I thought was fascinating and incredibly important. So e explain to me what is this select committee on the CCP actually about? >> So when they when we designed and named the select committee uh on China the actual name says says it all. This is the select committee on competition with the Chinese Communist Party. And what the point of all that was number one the Chinese people aren't our enemy. It's the Chinese Communist Party is our enemy. And number two, it's about competition, not war. Now, we all know that war hangs in the balance, and we spend a lot of time wargaming this thing, but uh the truth is we don't want war. Nobody should want war because a war with China, that's World War II. I mean, it it it looks pretty bad. And we've done the numbers on that. It's pretty grim. So, we'd like to keep this in the realm of competition. Now, it's going to be tough competition, but it's at the same time uh it's better to compete than it is to make war. >> Well, it's competition in the context of China undergoing the largest military buildup perhaps in the history of the world. >> Yeah. >> I mean, that's it's something. And by the way, I think we came very close. uh you know the given wisdom in Washington was right after Russia gets control of Ukraine and we thought that was going to be three or 4 days after they invaded uh then China was going to come into Taiwan and they were massing troops on the coast and ships on the coast for transport. They looked like they were getting ready for an invasion. Of course, the Russian invasion of Ukraine went sideways. The Ukrainians did a brilliant job protecting themselves and uh God bless them. They basically saved Taiwan at the same time they were saving Ukraine. >> And just explain this a little bit more to me. Why why do you think that's the case? >> Well, because I think China was watching Russia and they were going, "Oh, these invasions aren't as easy as they look." because everybody thought Russia was just going to go through Ukraine like uh you know hot water through a through sugar. But uh that was wrong. The Ukrainians really put up a great fight. And of course the Taiwan all their military their people uh they've begun to really uh take seriously their defensive mechanisms. So, with the select committee on the CCP, I mean, I've been watching you guys closely for a number of years. I mean, you cover everything from this forced organ harvesting in China, which is something I've covered extensively. You cover >> Thank you for doing that. >> Yeah, that's a subject that's near and dear to my heart. I'm one of the few members of Congress who've ever actually done transplant surgery. And so, I understand a lot of it's coming near and dear to my heart. And uh the idea of actually murdering someone to take their organs and give them to somebody else that is as appalling as anything that anybody's ever done in the history of the world. I mean that's that is right up there with the Nazis and the Holocaust. There is nothing any worse than this. They are clearly they put no value whatsoever on these human lives. So if you're a member of the Chinese Communist Party, you're going to do okay. If you're uh you know member of the full gong, good luck. You know, you're just a walking uh set of kidneys, heart, lungs that they're going to uh harvest at some point. So absolutely, we have to talk more about this because I mean again, there isn't a ton of people that are, you know, competent to talk about it and interested in talking about the combination is very rare. So we're going to dig into that. But you also look at I mean you of course you look at this whole trade thing. We started out by talking about the trade side which of course is a huge a huge area of competition or or unrestricted warfare and then also you know the kind of the strategic America's strategic interests in the Pacific some of these island chains and CCP subversion. You went to the Salman Islands. I'd love to talk about that with you a little bit because unfortunately we lost a frankly a heroic leader in in the region recently. Let's start with the organ issue and because this is something that's very close to me. I'm actually I'm working on a book as we speak. Every day I'm looking at it. Explain to me what you've managed to do. And you have a bill that you originated called the block act. I mean subt kind of the short name is the block act. So just explain to me the picture of what this is this forced organ harvesting in China and then what this block act will do. Well, we mentioned of course the practice which is repugnant beyond belief, but uh the idea is we don't want Americans to participate in any way, shape or form in this kind of organ harvesting and transplantation scheme. Now, they advertise that and you can actually make an appointment, sit in America, make an appointment for a heart lung transplant in China right now. But I want to make that illegal and I mean literally go to prison, pay fines type of legal. So criminal and civil uh penalties on this and I think it's very popular idea to do that. Having said that, it's very tough to talk about organ harvesting with anybody even in Congress. And the reason for it is it's such an appallingly bad idea. People are they shrivel away from it when you say let's talk about organ harvesting. they just look down at the floor, gag, and walk away. It's just so bad. And it's it sort of says something that uh that this is happening. So, this act actually does uh block any organs from for Americans from receiving them. They also lose their right to medical care in the United States afterwards. So, you come back for a little posttop followup in, you know, America. Nope. And uh and then the uh the other thing that it does is we can't bring organs over here. And that's a more subtle problem than we think because it's possible to actually uh preserve some organs that are harvested at the time of death, bone grafts, placental cordas, these things. I don't want that stuff coming into our transplant market either. So, uh, there's some, uh, you know, this is just like smuggling fentanyl. They're smuggling organs. Uh, organ legging or something. Is that what they call it? >> You know, it's I I'm actually going to research that a little bit more because most of the work that I've done is looking at transplants that are actually happening there, including things like corneal and and so forth. >> Yeah, that's what people tend to think of. But, >> you know, you can also ship those things. >> There's there's that there's that subsection. Absolutely. And there's also, you know, there's new technologies now, like for example, when ECMO came online some years back, right, where you can sort of replace the heart and lungs for a time. Well, I mean, it changed the dimension of the transplants because now from a from one body, you could actually harvest multiple organs. You had more time before the body would get cold because you had this circulation. But these machines, they're actually tend to be manufactured here actually and in the West. And there's all sorts of transplant materials and technologies. I've been learning shockingly are that are actually being imported to there. Right. That's so that's amazing that they do that. Think about that. They're they're literally keeping these bodies alive just so they can kill them and take their organs. That's so unamerican. I mean, no, as free nations, we we are obviously repo repelled by this. This is like my my contention basically is that this whole industry as a whole is a good way it's kind of a lens to understand how the Chinese Communist Party actually operates. I think you're absolutely right and this tells you just exactly how much value they put on human life. >> Congressman, uh you're you're leaving me speechless here because there's few people >> I'm so used to this. We have this subject come up. people are they go speechless and they by the way they don't want to talk about it they don't want to work with me on bills you know they're just it's so bad they just the thought of it is u and this is exactly what I experienced you know 20 years ago when I started working on it myself I experienced it and of and even today I experienced it but something I noticed I feel like in the last three years something has shifted there was this survivor of the organ harvesting which came forth or there was a lot of or more media than normal around it. There's actually these two bills that have already passed the house. The felon gong protection act, stop forced organ harvesting act. There seem I mean everything you're saying is absolutely true. But there seems to be an increased interest or awareness or you know people overcoming that revulsion. >> I think you're right. That's what it is. They're overcoming revulsion but it takes you know a willful effort to do it. Absolutely. Let's talk about your uh visit to the Salman Islands and also, you know, for starters, it's not obvious to people at the outset why we should care about these small island chains in the Pacific uh in the first place, but you do. >> Yeah. No, I think so. Anybody who's ever studied military history, especially in the Pacific, uh realizes immediately that the distances, number one, are huge. And number two is you can't get to China or by the way World War II Japan without going through all those islands. All right, so that was Douglas MacArthur's famous island hopping campaign. He didn't do that because, you know, he just thought it'd be warm-up exercise on the islands. That's what he needed to do to get to Japan. And uh China knows that there's actually a first and second island chain uh uh ident easily identifiable on any world map. And uh you know the Solomon Islands is very very key location and uh and it's you know it's right in the middle of uh access to China and they want to own that. They want to control that. And by the way controlling means controlling all their communications. They already do all the cell phones. So [snorts] they got that. The the communications fiber optic cables, they already own all those. And the government, [snorts] now the people of the Solomon Islands, generally speaking, don't really like the Chinese government, the Chinese Communist Party. They don't want to have anything to do with it. In fact, just about five years ago, they rioted and burned down Chinatown. Uh [clears throat] and uh nonetheless the Chinese have kept going in there and bribing corrupting as they do their belt and road initiative as I call it bribery and corruption initiative and uh they have won over a majority of the parliament. So they have the votes now and uh that means they control who gets elected prime minister by the parliament. That's the way they do that. And uh uh so they have a completely pro- China prime minister in a country that's majority of people are really opposed to China. Nonetheless, the prime minister is in their pocket. In fact, his personal security details made up of members of the People's Liberation Army of China. >> This is an amazing situation. And uh now they have two back-to-back prime ministers who are in the pocket of uh of Red China. And uh the majority population is actually on a different province, a different island, Malida. And they [clears throat] they they were very opposed to China. They're opposed to lots of things about China. their provincial parliament uh has been fighting the uh the national government to keep China out. But I tell you it's a it's a tricky battle because most of the powers in the national government. >> Well, and last year when you went to the Salman Islands, you actually met with former premier of Mallaya province, Daniel Sudani. >> Daniel Sudani. >> Yeah. May he rest in peace. >> Yes, that's right. just passed away. Um, and that story, by the way, is kind of interesting. He passed away for lack of receiving dialysis. And, uh, he was refused dialysis in the in Hanara, which is on the island of Gual Canal. It's the capital of the country and they only have a single functioning dialysis machine there. And the one doctor who's a nefologist that runs the thing is actually a citizen of the People's Republic of China. And so he's in their pocket, too. And here we have the prime opposition leader who who's a very brave, courageous guy dying of kidney failure because he can't get dialized. Let's talk about uh Premier Sui Dani a little a little bit more. Uh we've I've actually had him on this show a couple of years ago and we we've talked about him a number of times. What does it mean that the premier of a province of a tiny island nation which has you know this you know mass I don't know mass subversion mass influence operation mass bribery campaign affected on the island like what what what does it take for a person like that to be the hero who will stand up to them? Well, courage comes in handy. That's the first thing you need just to face the uh face down the opposition and the Chinese frankly. Uh so, but he was he was a very very selfless uh courageous leader. job. I actually got to know him because it was brought to my attention that he needed a visa to come to the United States for medical treatment and uh and he was denied that by our state department. And I was so flabbergasted that I called up the Secretary of State said, "What the heck? This this guy is a hero." And uh you know, he's a he's our hero. uh he's the last bull work against the Chinese taking over the Solomon Islands. We should be open open arms welcome not denying him a visa and uh so they actually changed their ruling gave him a a visa. Uh so he dropped by the office to say thank you. Well, and I mean it >> I met his family, by the way. I went back to uh to the Solomon Island when I made that trip and and I met his wife and daughters. They're lovely people. >> You know, I just want to remind uh everyone watching, right, this these islands of great strategic interest to the United States. are very strategic and you know and whatever you think about you know whether you're thinking about Ukraine and Russia you're thinking about uh uh the Indo-Pacific and China you look at the map and you go my god there are a lot of island nations out there between here and there uh who controls those things and it turns out China has established a very very uh strong control of a whole lot of the Indo-Pacific nations So, you know, you think, well, they're tiny islands just sail between them. But, you know, they're exclusive economic zones interlock so that you you never leave you're always in somebody's exclusive economic zone, which means they have some control over what's going on in their area if they control their own government. And of course, most of most of them do not control their own government. So what happens now with the Solomon Islands? >> One of the things that I became absolutely focused on was uh reestablishing diplomatic presence in the Solomon Islands. We have no embassy there. We have a chanced by three people. Two of them are army. [laughter] So the the literally the commander up at the Indo-Pacific detailed a couple of Marines I had said army the Marines down to Haniara to help the poor one guy who's actually the diplomatic presence there. They still don't have the authority to issue visas in that office and they need that. Um uh functionally it prevents the people of the Solomon Islands who are our allies and who are grateful to us for World War II freeing them etc. the famous battle of Guadal Canal and all this is by the way the Solomon Islands is where Kennedy got sunk in his PT boat. It's right there just a little bit north of the capital. So I mean we have a lot of uh history out there but we don't have any presence really just a little first step there. We need to get an ambassador back there. And in fact, we need an ambassador in a lot of places over in the Indo-Pacific. So, we need to have a diplomatic presence. We got to be there. You know, if you're not if you're not there, you're absent. And China's there. And they're playing the game pretty for keeps. >> And just just to finish up on this point, I mean, control of those island chains allows them to project their naval power. >> That's right. And and it's also works as kind of a a wall against us. You know, we actually will have some difficulty sailing even submarines past all these island chains if China's controlling the surveillance in those island chains. Think about that. They they don't just go there and bribe and corrupt. They also set up listening posts and uh sonar posts and all this stuff so they they can track, you know, they know where the deep channels are. They'll watch for submarines there. And by the way, it could also launch ship anti-hship missiles from the land. You never have to be out of range of a landbased battery. >> I have to ask this question. You know, we're talking about, you know, military strategy here. We're talking about, you know, projecting power, but the select committee on the CCP, it's about just about competition. It's about preventing those military encounters. Why are we talking about this? Well, uh, so the competition, you know, goes from, uh, from rough and tumble competition to empty the dugouts, have a fight kind of competition pretty easily, pretty quickly. uh and uh you know I think we need to be there and kind of see if we can keep control on that and uh but you know part of it is just showing up for the game >> we got to have Americans there uh we're be doing a better job now having uh our American military presence in the Philippines which we needed and they want it they understand China is a problem to them and uh of Of course, in Guam, we do it and the uh Commonwealth Marianas, that's a territorial uh possession of the United States. So, we we're we're building up our presence there. Samoa, by the way, these islanders uh also uh enlist in our military at a much higher rate than the average American population. So they're participating in the defense of America, the greater all America, as well as, you know, back home. And uh they have no representation at home. Once they get out, they do their 20 years, they get out, they go home, there's no VA, you know, there's no diplomatic presence. They they have to go to Papo New Guinea to get a visa to come back to the United States. I mean, it's crazy. >> Let's switch gears a little bit. Let's for a moment let's go back to trade and one of the areas that the committee has had a number of hearings about it's something I've talked to uh Robert Lighheiser former US trade representative about and he kind of shocked me by explaining how significant uh uh contribution to the trade deficit was the what's this called the dimminimous exemption. So, anything under $800, I believe the number was, um, just came just not only does it just come in without a tariff, it if you're in the dimminimous under the dimminimous level, you probably aren't even going to get your package inspected by customs. So, who knows what's in these packages. >> Does this is this is this somehow insane? Like, >> yeah, it is. >> And I mean, the the Chinese Communist Party exploited this massively. Yeah, they they absolutely did. And I mean it was it was it was institutionalized how much they brought in billions, tens of billions of dollars of goods and not so goods uh to our country using this dimminimous exception. What they would do is they come into like a free trade zone in Long Beach, transfer these huge containers to Mexico, and then just wait for whatever order to come to them, and they just send it over from Mexico, one off at a time, and it might be worth $10,000, but on the stamp it says less than $800. So, shoots right through customs, gets uh gets delivered. Uh it's it was a it was a gaping hole, by the way. $800 dimminimous exception was extremely high by international levels. You know, the more common level of a dimminimous exception is 100 to 200, >> right? Well, so now there's an executive order um >> yes to >> just took effect August 29th, >> right? [snorts] >> And and so the question is it has it had an effect yet? >> Well, absolutely. So there's there's far fewer packages coming over and you can see that I've read that I believe in your paper actually that uh the uh that the the number of packages coming into the United States is is dramatically decreased now. It hasn't gone to zero. Uh and uh but you have to ask yourself too is customs actually physically capable of examining every package internationally that comes in? Do we have the wherewithal, the manpower? And I kind of doubt it, frankly. I mean, before August 29th, we still had an $800 exemption, and now we've got a zero exemption. Uh, that's kind of amazing. Uh, so maybe there's a happy middle ground, 100 bucks or something. I don't know. But uh uh I'd love to sit down and uh look over that kind of thing uh and see what the actual mechanism is for customs inspection coming in with these shipped in goods uh and I think that that'd be a good uh trip for us. >> Are there any plans to actually codify this into law somehow? >> Well, thank you for that. It needs to be statute. I mean, let's be honest. You know, the president's using sort of loopholes here to uh to make these executive orders. And uh it it really ought to be put in statute. And to Trump's in Trump's defense, I'm going to say he looks at Congress and says, "Well, put it in statute." And we go, "We're shut down." [laughter] So, um, you know, he he he gets impatient with the Hill sometimes and God bless him. I do, too. >> Well, so what what do you think's have going to happen with the shutdown? Ah so what you know the the thought is the rumor on the street this week is uh that after the election day the Democratic senators are going to bring u uh forward a willingness to to take the CR. I don't know if they're going to want something in return up front, but what they what they had been asking for, what Schumer and Jeff had been asking for was $1.5 trillion with a T trillion dollar in give me goodies and you know just you know and that's just to come to the table and negotiate for a couple of weeks. You know that's that's how it'll work. So, by the way, the other thing, the other part of this rumor is that the uh the continuing resolution will have to be made longer because right now it only goes to 21 November. We couldn't possibly get uh what do we need? Nine appropriations bills done uh in order to get them to the president by the end of the CR. Can't possibly do that by the 21st. A number of people have uh mentioned to me, I don't know how how you'll re respond to this, but a number of people uh people who watch American thought leaders, people who read the Epoch Times have said, you know, frankly, this last month, I haven't really noticed much change. Now, that that obviously there there has been a big change. Government has been shut down. It's it had impact, but there's some people at least that are telling me they're not particularly impacted and they're wondering about, you know, where all this money is going. Well, uh, so once again, I want to give a little credit to Trump here. He found a way to to pay the military this past month. Uh, that's a good thing. Uh, he, uh, you know, found a way to do a number of other things to keep the government nominally open. But if you poke around the course, you find there's a lot of people who are not at work. And by the way, my staff on the hill, they're not getting paid. And you know, how long how long can they coast? So what we're seeing right now is sort of the evolution of a shutdown, how bad it gets. What we haven't seen yet is how much it costs to open the government back up. And it's going to be expensive. All right, a shutdown's here's something you can take to the back. A shutdown is never the right thing to do. It's always the most expensive option. It's going to be lost economies. It's going to be plused up money to restart everything. And when I say lost economy, we're looking at just the state of Florida loses a billion dollars a week with a government shutdown. >> The state of Florida alone is a billion dollars. I've been trying to find a figure for the whole country. >> Is that it? Is that in transfers from the federal government or where where does that come from? >> It's mostly lost economic opportunity. Uh you know, people aren't buying. People aren't being paid. They are buying. They aren't spending, >> you know. And by the way, they're not driving down to Florida and going to the beach either. Mhm. >> Fascinating. >> Let's jump back to the select committee on China. You know, another area that you're interested in, you even have a bit of a background in is is this bow warfare realm. It's something a lot of people don't like talking about. >> Yeah, I I get all the all the really bad things. [laughter] >> Well, it's they're also very serious things. And we know as a fact that it's a you know a central piece of Chinese military strategy is to develop very powerful bowfare capability. It really is by the way and I get I I'm forced uh to read more about this than than anybody would choose to read uh except you know we need to know this stuff. So the the truth is uh they have a very advanced bioweapons uh uh program. It's not particularly safe you know. So they they do the research in laboratories that are not well isolated, aren't well protected, hence the lab leak, you know, SARS KV2. By the way, people ought to Google the whole just the term a lab leak and uh of pathogens and they see well there's a very rich history of leaks from laboratories of uh of of virulent pathogens uh bacteria and viruses uh and molds and uh so it's you know it's it's a it's a kind of ah it's another one of those stories people don't want to talk about. I was stationed in the biological warfare headquarters of the army back in the 70s. Did research there on as a bench scientist. So I'm familiar with this stuff and um and because of that familiarity uh I was given the bill called pandemic and all hazards preparedness pa papa act uh to get the chairman of said get that renewed by the end of 27. that's when it uh it times out. And so I take that very seriously. We need to do that. And we need by the way we need to have a better plan for response to biological threats. Uh we did not respond well to SARS KV2. I think everybody recognizes that now. Uh we can never do that again and there are some things that we should be doing and I have some definite ideas on that. I'm open to your ideas. >> Well, you know, he mentioned some things we should be doing. Um, one of the things that there's a large body of voices saying we shouldn't be doing is gain of function research, which is kind of a hund 100% of which has military application. I'm talking about when I say gain of function, just to be precise, I'm talking about making viruses more viralent than they were. I think that that's that's a that isn't the only gain of function that they can do, but that certainly is the one that uh you know make it we say ver but you know what contagious that's a word everybody understands making these things more contagious that's not a good plan especially when you're doing it ostensibly ostensibly this research is being done so that they can study the virus and develop uh some treatment for it in case it ever, you know, emerges in nature. Well, it doesn't emerge in nature. It leaks from the damn laboratory. And, you know, so we we're making our problems with this gain of function research. There is a kind of a a split in the science camp about whether it's a good idea to study gain of function or to just outlaw. And I'm not going to take sides, but I'll tell you that you certainly it needs to be done in a BSL4 level. That's the highest level of isolation. And uh I worked in a BSL4 facility. It's a very expensive, very difficult, time consuming proposition uh to work in that environment. Uh and it has to have a lot of protocols. Uh so you know that's why I think the Chinese don't put that effort into it and why they have a rich history of laboratory leaks. >> Well bio weapons are kind of a strange thing because you can't it's not like you you don't want to have like a mutually assured destruction doctrine for example. I haven't thought about this extensively, right? But it does it it doesn't make sense. If you have big really powerful bioweapons, I need to have my very powerful bioweapons. Or does that make sense? >> No, it doesn't make sense. And because [clears throat] we we have issued that, you know, we no longer make offensive uh uh pathogens at all for biological warfare or well, I guess they're I won't go into chemical, but uh the uh the bi we do we absolutely do not do biological warfare. Uh we do defense, >> right? >> And uh that we need >> isn't just a healthy population the best defense. >> Well, it's a great defense. It absolutely, but it's not adequate. I mean, because we we know that the Chinese can tailor make uh pathogens that can infect just about any population. And and I don't want to take too much of a dive down the rabbit hole with this stuff, but trust me, there are pathogens out there that uh will kill, you know, I don't care if you're Iron Man or, you know, the best athlete in the world. you know it's it you can be killed with a virus >> and so and you're you're aware of these I'm aware I'm aware of research but they're them doing research in these targeted you know various types of these but you're aware that they have already developed some of these types of technologies >> so we read the Chinese literature they say we I don't personally do it but it gets read by our intelligence community we read translations of it and there is no doubt that the Chinese well people's liberation army army has a biological warfare effort. They write about it in their own communications. Say, "Oh, let's try this. We can do this. We can weaponize this particular virus. Uh let's do some research on it." And I mean, that's that's in their communication. There's, you know, you talk about smoking gun. Uh, by the way, Russia, too. uh uh and I I can name names, but it's it gets down the you mean we we we're immediately in the rabbit hole there, but I mean, trust me, this is it's as bad as you can imagine bad. And you know, these infections, they once they're out, they're out. They go around the world. That's what happened with SARS KV2. You know, >> it seems to me like the best defense for SARS KV2 was simply being in the best health possible like that. That's when >> Well, and being young. Yeah, that would be good. Yeah. So, uh you don't want to carry extra weight. Uh things like that. It was uh you know it was lipid metabolism was the act active toxic uh element there. So uh it's yeah it was good for SARS KV2 but remember SARS Kovv2 had not yet been uh fully weaponized they were just studying it they had just made it more virulent more contagious uh they hadn't gotten around to tailoring it to your DNA so that it would be much more likely to say get a Caucasian and get an Asian. >> They can do that. Well, that's that's important actually because they're specifically working on those kinds of technologies that we know. Absolutely. >> They absolutely are. No question. And and they, by the way, they're gathering biological data on all of us. >> One of the most insidious uh ways they gather biological DNA sequencing uh uh on us is they run a set of blood banks in the United States, the People's Republic of China. Everybody who charitably goes to donate blood to one of these blood banks, they get sequenced and it goes right to China. >> It would seem that would be something that we would want to shut down rather quickly. >> Yeah. I >> or you know kind of repatriate or >> Yeah. So well you think of all the Chinese corporations that are doing business in the United States that we would want to shut down that we have not shut down. Uh the Beijing Genomics Institute BGI is comes to mind. Uh there's but that's just an example. There's a whole lot of them. >> This is a good moment just to talk about this reality. Is there such a thing as an independent company and communist China communist Chinese company >> by law there is not. >> Mhm. >> That's their law. You can't be if they thought you were independent they'd come get you. Hard stop. No. no possibility of an independent country, a company or corporation in China. >> Are you referring to the 2017 National Intelligence Law? Um, >> well, I you're more aerodite than I am on the law of the I'm a doctor. >> No, I mean I I I mean there's there's there's multiple laws I can think of that that would lead to that that conclusion, but yes, I that's my understanding as well. That's my conclusion that there's nothing in that's independent. >> Yeah. I I we by the way took this up in hearing in the China Select China Committee and um and that was our contention as well. By the way, one of the things that's nice about the China Committee is it's completely bipartisan. >> You mean we have we typically h have absolute unan unanimity D's and Rs on every subject. M >> it's kind of nice. So, change of pace. >> Um well, just going as we finish up back to this organ harvesting issue, you know, this just strikes me as something that it's not even a polit it's something that transcends politics. It strikes me like a basic humanity issue. >> It absolutely is. This is human rights, you know, writ large. uh and uh and I I think we're finally, [clears throat] you know, swallowing twice and getting the courage to take this subject on and do something about it. I intend to meet with the uh chair of energy and commerce and health uh later this week and u and asked to bring these acts to the floor with you know all due haste. Uh and you know the China committee has already taken this up in a hearing about the organ harvesting. uh Chairman Muinar, you know, God bless him, is willing to talk about it. He's uh uh he's a nice guy, but it's, you know, you realize this is this is important. >> How many people do you think that they murder a year for organs? >> Well, the best estimate >> I have my estimates, I wonder yours. the best I I tend to go with the China Tribunal 2020 China Tribunal estimate which is something to the tune of 60 to 90,000 transplants. It's not necessarily bodies because of this ECMO technology that we discussed earlier but that's you know over the years that's a huge number of people we're talking about. >> Yeah. I usually just say 100,000. That's what our intelligence community believes. Mhm. >> 100 our intelligence community. >> Um I I'm going to be coming to you for that report. >> Uh I'll share everything we can. >> Wonderful. Okay. I mean and horrible. >> Yeah. And horrible. I finally got NATO, by the way, to pay attention to this stuff. Uh you know, they used to be allergic to talking about anything in the Indo-acific. you know, they were so proud of being an Atlantic alliance that they just put on the blinders and not look beyond that. Uh, [clears throat] and now we uh the secretary general has has put as his second primary goal that the NATO alliance allies need to be uh assisting the United States in working more closely in the Indo-Pacific. >> Well, that's that's also excellent to hear. Frankly, NATO is another hat I wear. Okay. Well, I know what we're I absolutely am going to have to have you back to talk a whole about some more of these some more of these issues that we've just kind of scratched the surface on today. >> Yeah, there's plenty there to look at. >> Congressman Dunn, a final thought as we finish. >> Well, first off, it's an honor to be here with you and as somebody who's actually willing to talk about some of the things that that I do. I mean, I I can't exactly go home and talk with my wife and kids about uh you know, organ harvesting. I >> [laughter] >> I I get ostracized. But uh so it's it's it's good to have people who are are willing to face the the bad things in life and and to take them up. So if I can help you in your quest, uh please let me let me do that to you because I I I feel a little bit alone out here sometimes. >> Well, uh you're definitely going to be hearing from me and my people. Thank you so much. Great being with you, Y. Um, well, it's Congressman Dunn, it's such a pleasure to have had you on. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you all for joining Congressman Neil Dunn and me on this episode of American Thought Leaders. I'm your host, Yana Kell.