It doesn’t work that way': Ex-CDC official on RFK Jr.’s Denmark vaccine idea

Some health experts are now speaking out about proposed changes to the recommended childhood vaccine schedule here in the U.S. Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is reportedly considering announcing in the new year that American children should be immunized on the same schedule as those in Denmark where they receive fewer vaccines. It comes as President Trump earlier this month called for his health officials to consider aligning vaccination schedules with the ones that are used in European countries. Joining me now, Dr. Dimitri Daskalakis, former head of the CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. Doctor, you resigned from the CDC in protest earlier this year over public health safety concerns. What do you make of the idea of switching the vaccine schedule to mere Denmark? Is that an appropriate comparison? Well, so first, thanks for having me on, Ariel. And I think, you know, the U.S. childhood and adolescent vaccine schedule was really designed to address the unique complexity and risks of the American health care landscape. You know, that means a country with a large, diverse population, unfortunately, fragmented health care access and just significantly significant disparities in disease burden and coverage. So you don't take the instructions for a toy car and then try to use it for a race car. And that's really what this is about. Denmark and the U.S. are not the same. We don't have the same kind of health care system. We don't have the same kind of risk. So you can't just transcribe one schedule to another country. And if you do, really, America deserves to see the modeling and the data behind that decision. And so far, I've seen nothing convincing. So the idea of the schedule change stems from President Trump and R.K. Jr. arguing that kids here just get too many shots at an early age. Kids here get about, I believe, 16 shots in the current schedule compared to 10 in Denmark. So, you know, our vaccine schedule is really designed for our population and the risk for disease that we have, as well as the plan to try to prevent all vaccine-preventable diseases. So the simple answer is it's evolved to really meet the needs of American children. So the answer is no, we are not an over-vaccinated country. If we do swap to Denmark, we're forgetting, you know, decades and decades of evolution of a very complex schedule. And like I said, it's like taking the instructions to a toy car and trying to say, can I make that work for a NASCAR racer? It doesn't work that way. So in the meantime, we are seeing a rise in cases of the flu, of RSV. As people are gathering for the holidays over the next couple of weeks, what's your biggest concern? So, you know, my biggest concern is that we are currently under-vaccinated for those. So we're really seeing rates of influenza vaccination that is significantly lower than years before. And RSV, those vaccines, if you're older or if you're a baby, you know, those are really game changers. So I think my biggest concern is that there's so much noise, so much confusion that people aren't getting vaccinated. You know, even if the vaccine for flu isn't a perfect match, some protection is better than none, especially given the fact that we have a pretty severe strain floating around. Yeah, I think a lot of people are concerned that this year's flu shot may not be as effective against the strains that we're seeing. So your thought is people should still be getting the flu shot. It's not too late. Yeah, it's a slam dunk. Some protection is better than no protection, period. And so even if the flu vaccine is not as effective as it can be, and remember, the early data from the UK indicate that it might be pretty effective. If it's not, you know, if you don't get a vaccine, the answer is protection. If you do get the vaccine, even if it's imperfect, that's more protection than zero. So here's something I really want to get your thoughts on. I was just on the ground in South Carolina where there's been a measles outbreak. It's very concerning, mostly attributed to under-vaccinated children in that area. I want you to listen to what a father there told me about the lack of trust in public health experts in his community. I'm going to put it this way. It took them decades, centuries to come up with these vaccines. And it took them four years to ruin that for everybody else. I think it's going to take another decades for people to start trusting the government and the vaccines again. So doctor, I don't think it's a surprise that we're hearing that sentiment across the religious and political spectrum, that it's not just unique to that community in South Carolina. What do you say to parents who share the feeling of distrust from the COVID era? Thanks, Arielle. So I think that the simple answer is, who do you trust when it comes to your kid's health? It's your pediatrician. So if you're not going to trust the local health department, if you're not going to trust the CDC, which frankly I think is probably a good strategy given the misinformation that's coming out of the CDC these days, then the right answer is, talk to your pediatrician. These are folks that are really aligned to the care of your child. And they're really going to give you the best advice for a vaccine. So totally understand if folks don't necessarily trust the big government, but do trust your pediatrician because that is the relationship that matters for your child. So you do understand why some are left after the COVID era with a degree of uncertainty. How can the public health establishment regain the trust of people who felt misled, frankly, during the COVID crisis? That's what they were telling me. Yeah, I think that the answer is by being maximally transparent and making sure that we lead with information about the vaccines, that's really good. I think that in general, what you're seeing now coming out of the federal government is misinformation. And so your pediatrician is listening to the American Academy of Pediatrics. It's listening. They're listening to all of the other organizations that continue to recommend the importance of the childhood vaccine schedule and specifically the importance of the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine.