Sen Ted Cruz Questions Witnesses on Somali Fraud in Minnesota

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing. You know, I think it is amazing that Democrats never seem to focus on innocent victims who are shot and killed by illegal aliens that their policies have led into this country. They never seem to say names like Jocelyn Nungary in my hometown of Houston, who was raped and murdered, a young girl by two Venezuelan gang members that Joe Biden had in custody and released. And they came to Houston and raped and murdered that beautiful little girl. They never seem to mention someone like Lakin Riley, a nursing student, beautiful young woman murdered by an illegal alien the Democrats have released. They never seem to mention anyone like Kate Steinle, a beautiful young woman, 28 years old in California, shot on a pier by an illegal alien who had been released over and over and over again. We have had Kate Steinle's father testify before this committee. He held her head in his hands as she died. And her last words were, help me, daddy. And yet, for my Democrat colleagues, it seems there's no limit to how many Americans can be murdered by illegal aliens. And yet they simply don't care. They still support open borders and releasing murderers and releasing violent criminals. We're here today because of the Democrats' open border policies and the damage it's done to this country. But we're also here today because Minnesota's welfare system has been treated like an open ATM, and the taxpayers are the ones getting robbed. Ms. Gambler, GAO has reported that the federal government loses hundreds of billions of dollars each year to fraud and improper payments, much of it in public benefit programs. Is that correct? Yes, GAO has reported both on estimates of federal government losses due to fraud as well as estimates of improper payments government-wide. You may recall the infamous Leering Center, whose blacked-out windows and childless facilities have become emblematic of the public programs fraud currently plaguing Minnesota. Mr. O'Brien, when investigators encounter fraud this obvious, does it usually represent just a single isolated bad actor or the visible tip of a much larger scheme? No, it's usually the visual tip, excuse me, the visible tip of a much, much larger scheme. Fraud has a tendency not to occur in a vacuum. In that instance, the fraud was so blatant that the owners of the business couldn't be bothered to spell the organization's name correctly on the public signage. Mr. O'Brien, does fraud of that magnitude typically persist because it's difficult to detect or because oversight and enforcement break down? It tends to persist because oversight and enforcement break down and it tends to spread geometrically. The Somali fraud problem in Minnesota is not confined to child care centers. Federal prosecutors in Minnesota expect that half of the more than $18 billion spent since 2018 on 14 different Minnesota welfare programs may prove to be fraudulent. To put that figure into perspective, the amount of fraud, if confirmed, may approach the entire GDP of the nation of Somalia. Mr. Hankinson, once funds are laundered and sent overseas to fragile or corrupt jurisdiction, is there any realistic prospect of recovering them? Only if they come back and spend them. In many respects, Minneapolis has become the Mogadishu of the Midwest. As the chairman of the Subcommittee on Federal Courts Oversight, Agency Action, and Federal Rights, I'm proud to have held a hearing last week on the issue of fraud within the Minnesota Somali community and beyond. But the problem of fraud doesn't stop there, and neither does our inquiry. Our shared civic culture rests on something uniquely American, a respect for the public commons. It is clear, though, that though Minnesota opens its doors in the early 1990s to a massive number of Somali immigrants, that kindness was not reciprocated. Instead, it was exploited again and again and again, and that's simply unacceptable. Mr. Beer, can any welfare system long survive if large-scale fraud is excused and explained away rather than confronted? No. It would be entirely naive to assume that fraud of this magnitude simply stopped at public program frauds. I encourage you to examine the graph behind me. What do you notice about the usage of public programs among Minnesota's Somali immigrant population? Eighty-one percent of Somali households in Minnesota receive some form of welfare, compared to 21 percent of non-Somali households. Fifty-four percent of Somali households receive food stamps, compared to seven percent of non-Somali households. Seventy-three percent are enrolled in Medicaid, compared to 18 percent of non-Somali households. And 27 percent receive cash assistance, compared to six percent of non-Somali households. My question to the panel, and this is my final question, is importing vast numbers of people from an impoverished nation, putting the majority of them on public welfare for years and decades at a time, and then turning a blind eye while they steal billions of dollars from the taxpayers, is that helping America or hurting America? Each of you has a chance to answer that. Ms. Gambler. Yes. Thank you, Senator. I would just say that your question really speaks to the work that GAO has done as it relates to leading practices for managing fraud risk. We've put out a framework for agencies that can help them better put in place processes and controls up front to prevent fraud risks, and then also have policies and practices in place to really tailor their anti-fraud activities and anti-fraud approaches. Mr. Hankinson. I believe in the melting pot. I'm an immigrant, but to melt, you need heat. You've got to put heat on people to make sure they obey laws and learn how we do business in the United States. Is that helping or hurting America? It's a simple question. I think if we ignore fraud, we're hurting America, of course. Okay. Mr. Linderman. That's not in the U.S. national interest, Senator, and we know that Somalia is a high-fraud country. To bring people from that country who cannot integrate into our systems is not in the U.S. national interest. Mr. O'Brien. I believe it was Milton Friedman who said, you can have a welfare state or you can have open borders, but you can't have both. Mr. Beer. We can build a wall around the welfare state, and that would be a lot better for taxpayers than building a wall and keeping out all these legal immigrants who can come and- Is this helping or hurting America? Certainly, the welfare state is a problem, but- Mr. Schwartz. It is not unusual for immigrant populations to have a high degree of assistance early in their, after their arrival, but we are already seeing statistics that the net benefit, economically, of Somali presence in the United States far outweighs the cost- So your testimony is this massive welfare usage is helping America and the fraud is helping America? Not the fraud. We need to go after the fraud, which makes all inexplicable the Trump administration's decision to take actions that has decimated the U.S. attorney's office in Minnesota. I can't understand it. Can you understand it? So simple question, is this helping America or hurting America? The Somali presence in the United States is helping America. That, that graph- For the Minnesota taxpayers who had nine billion dollars stolen from them, sir, the Minnesota taxpayers who had nine billion dollars stolen from them, it has not helped them. And the American taxpayers who are supporting a dependent population who are here for one reason, and that is to vote Democrat and give money to elect Democrats. And if it robs the American taxpayers and endangers our security, for our Democrat colleagues, that is a perfectly acceptable trade-off. Speaking loudly does not make it true. Your time has expired. It just doesn't. Your time has expired, Mr. Schwartz.