Natalie Portman and Jenna Ortega talk "The Gallerist" with Dir Cathy Yan "Embracing Imperfections"

I mean, so many of the best films I saw this year were made by women, and you just see the barriers at every level, because so many of them were not recognized, awards time. Natalie, as we start, obviously, you know, Sundance is a place for a fashion statement, but also you are wearing your Ice Out and Be Good pins today. So I just wanted to see if you, if there's anything that you wanted to say about why you chose to wear those. Well, this is obviously such a joyful community sort of celebrating film here, and we're so excited to be showing the gallerists here. But we're also at a moment in our country's history that is quite devastating. And I think it's really, it's impossible not to talk about what is happening right now and the brutality of ICE and how it has to stop immediately, and also the beautiful community that Americans are showing right now, showing up for each other, protecting each other, and fighting for their freedom. But it's a very, yeah, it's a bittersweet moment to celebrate something we're so proud of on a backdrop of our nation really in pain. And that's true. I mean, that is the whole thing that brings us here together is storytelling, telling stories that previously are untold. Not everything, of course, has to be super serious. You guys are giving us a psychological thriller that is set in the world of Art Basel. Cathy, what was it about, especially that, that I guess not festival, festival, that made you interested in diving into that world? Well, I think the way that it's grown over the years, not unlike Sundance in some ways, but I think as it starts, I think Art Basel became more a part of the cultural lexicon and more people were aware of it. And then I think the phenomenon with Maurizio Cattelan's banana on a wall, for example. And I think that was really part of the inspiration for this film because I've always been really fascinated by the definition of art and what it is and the innate tension of making art. And how do you, especially in the contemporary art world, how do you attribute value to art? Is it entirely in the eye of the holder? Is it the context? Is it the way that it is presented? Is it the literal frame that it comes in? And I think ever since Duchamp decided that a urinal could be a piece of art and called it the fountain, the modern, the contemporary art world has been really asking that question. And so it kind of felt inevitable that eventually a dead body could be considered art. What interested you guys about that? I mean, aside from just the idea that log line is kind of amazing, but it is also, yeah, that meta nature of making a movie about, which is a piece of art, about what is art. Jenna, what for you? Well, by the time that the script came my way, Kathy was already attached, Natalie was attached. So I trust these two artists immensely and I really look up to them. But also the script, it is so immensely funny. Like I found myself actually engaging and laughing with it, which, you know, it's hard to do and I don't think I'm that easy to crack. So I was really amazed by that. I love that none of the characters are completely perfect. Everybody's flawed, everybody has things that they're willing to sacrifice in order to take. And that was very interesting to me. And then also my character, Kiki, is kind of a spaz. She has good intentions, but is way too anxious and riddled with this nervousness that it just seemed like a great challenge in considering the circumstances that they're put in in this film. So it was just exciting to me to do something new and, again, work with Kiki. Okay, guys, what have you found that makes Jenna crack now that you guys have worked together? I don't know, I think you're kind of easy to crack. I don't know, what do you think? I don't know that there's one specific thing. I think so bright and so knowledgeable about film and so, like, such a ******* great actress. My language is such a great actress. Like, so, so on and in it. Yeah, it is rare because I think you're, like, very focused and, like, in tune with everything. You're not there to, like, mess around. But then it's also fun to, yeah. Maybe just the suggestive art on the wall. Yeah, the art on the wall. You love me, like, off in the corner, sitting and playing with things. You making some art on your own. Kind of like this. It doesn't make sense to anyone. I know. Maybe you'll see in the movie. Exactly, no spoilers yet because you guys have your big premiere coming up tonight. But actually, Natalie, what was it for you that intrigued you about the premise? Well, the first time I met Kathy, and we talked about it after I had read the script already, but Kathy was talking to me a lot about the compromise and that slippery slope of, as an artist or as a human being, making choices and saying, oh, that's not that bad. And especially when it's mixed up in commerce, you know, when you're like, okay, it could be really profitable. And I think it is very reflective of a lot of what we're seeing in our country, too, of, like, what are the compromises people are willing to make for something to be valuable? And obviously, it's a very fun, satirical look at that, but it is quite resonant, I think, in our moment right now of, like, what does compromising your ideals, your vision, your artistry, you know, what does it cost you? I mean, that was something, you know, obviously, we haven't gotten a chance to dive into the film completely yet, but, you know, just like film festivals, the art world kind of draws in a lot of opportunities. So did you kind of want to reflect a little bit of that, too, that element of, you know, not everybody's, some people are here more for the money than the love of the game. Certainly, yes. You know, I think that, like, there's always, there's always that tension between art and commerce, and we kind of need both to sustain itself, I think, in the film world very much as well, and you can't ignore the other side, but then you're always trying to find the right balance, and if that can even exist. So that was definitely something that was very personal to me, just a theme that I've always wanted to explore, and it felt nice to explore it in a slightly different world than my own. Absolutely. I mean, you know, not everything has to be incredibly biographical, but we do love seeing you in this indie film world again. You know, obviously, you've had lots of success here, but we also enjoyed getting a blockbuster from you with Birds of Prey. What was it about, you know, getting to work with Kathy, in particular, Donna and Natalie, that really struck you about her approach to filming? Yeah, I was gonna say, it's just such great taste. Everything was very meticulous, so thought out. There was meaning behind everything, and it's very easy to take a premise like this and just poke fun and kind of get wild and silly with it, but even in the chaos and kind of hectic nature of the camera choreography or the performances and the up and down emotional rollercoaster of it all, it all had a purpose. It all was what we knew we were getting into. It just felt that prep and sense of security and knowing that somebody was overseeing the whole thing and had looked at everything from every single corner and perspective was so freeing and allowed us more opportunity to play in this space, which was perfect. They really built the gallery and they really did look at the Jiffy Lube structure and model it after that. Yeah, it was so beneficial, just the process of this. I didn't know what I was getting into, but really getting to get into the, you know what I'm trying to say. I'm dragging myself on now, but she's incredibly thoughtful and meaningful, and chic. Chic is actually also one of the most important parts. I mean, come on. To your point about the nitty gritty, you know, I think film fans, we always talk about the hair tie scene in Birds of Prey. It's the tiniest little moment, but it's like the thing that made us all know, there's a woman directing this that understands what we're looking for when we're watching one of these movies. Tell me a little bit, yes, Natalie, I'll let you speak to Kathy as well. No, I think Jenna's exactly right on that. Kathy, I mean, it's so hard talking when you're right here, but you're such a brilliant leader. The specificity of vision, the preparedness, it's really all of that work ahead of time, all of that like precise decision-making and leadership leads to the possibility for spontaneity. And it's that combination of like, and especially balancing this very, very specific tone that is extremely satirical, but also has true emotion in it, which is almost impossible to create. And she knew how to do it and knew how to guide us to it and also came in with like such incredible energy and like joy and spirit every day that like kept us so like sustained and inspired. Every day. And yeah, and we laughed a lot and it was an incredible, incredible experience. And I think you feel it in the movie. All of us were just so in it. Yes, Kathy, I'm sorry that I had to make you the most awkward way to get dragged. I feel like if you say something mean, make me feel a little bit better. But I think it's important to state that because we still have statistics that are incredibly low when it comes to women in the director's chair and getting, you know, after you've made one movie or two movies to get another movie made. You're nodding quite intently. What would you like to say about that idea of what it still takes after you've made a couple successful films to get a movie like this made and at Sundance? And. I think it's a pretty hard time in the industry in general right now where it can feel a little risk averse or people don't know where we're headed but at the same time, I think it's full of opportunity especially because I think old systems are sort of breaking and new ones have to start and there's just so much going on in the world that I think it is very important for storytellers to reflect on. But there is a problem in this industry, I think, of not giving women the opportunity that they are owed still. We are not a trend. No, I don't, D-E-I should not be a bad word. And I think part of that perhaps is there is still this difficult contradiction sometimes in what I think people expect women to be and then also what a leader could look like. And so when you have to be both of those things at all times, that creates a lot of difficulty. And I'm still navigating that certainly, but I know that women have also directed some of the most profitable films of late. So there is absolutely no reason, whether it's a financial or artistic reason that women should not be directing more films right now. And I also wanna just give a shout out to Natalie because I think she's really been so supportive of female filmmakers and putting her money where her mouth is with that. And it's very, very important. Thank you. Well, I mean, so many of the best films I saw this year were made by women. And you just see the barriers at every level because so many of them were not recognized. Awards time, I mean, between Sorry Baby and Left-Handed Girl and Hedda and Testament of Anne Lee, Belen, Late Shift, like. If I had a, like, they'll kick you? Yes. I mean, extraordinary, extraordinary films this year that I think a lot of people are enjoying and loving, but are not getting the accolades that they deserve. And so even when you pass the barriers of getting your financing, which is harder, getting into festivals, which is harder, getting, you know, like, every step of the road is harder, and then you're out and it's great. And then it also doesn't get the attention. It's just, we have a lot of work to do still, but joyfully, with a lot of joy, working with each other. And there's a very, it's a very special process to be in community with women on set. We had, I mean, between Divine, Joy Randolph, and Catherine Zeta-Jones, and us, it was, like, so, so rare. It was the best. It was the best, yeah. I can't remember the last time I had an experience like that, but it was nice every once in a while, looking around and just seeing women. And actually, to that point of putting your money where your mouth is, Natalie, congratulations, also on the Oscar nomination for ARCO. Oh, thank you. Another film that you put yourself behind, and really helped get out there to audiences. Thank you, well, we're so, so proud of ARCO, and we're so excited and grateful for the reception it's had, and it's been a very magical ride. And yeah, it does sustain you to feel like sometimes you do something because you just love it, and you believe in it, and it's not because you think it's gonna make you money, or get anything, and then, surprise, it works, and people receive it with a lot of love, so it's been really lucky. Well, I really, I'm so excited for people about me, I'm excited to see this one myself. But thank you guys so much for joining us. We've got one just last question, obviously, we're talking audio storytelling here, so curious, for you, what is a podcast or an audio book you guys have read recently? Or rather, listened to recently? I don't listen to podcasts. I'll listen in the same 15 seconds over and over, I get distracted too easily, it's not for me. I listen to the Michelle Williams reading of the Britney Spears. Me too, she's so good! Really? Yes! It's a real. It's a great performance. It's a great performance, and it's a very moving book, too. Wait, she is? She reads it. But she plays all the time. It's really worthwhile. I love her so much. Interesting, okay, I didn't know that that was, okay. I'm also not usually, I'm more visual than listener, but we were doing a road trip, and we listened to her in the car, and I was just like, it's one of the great things. It's like one of her best. I mean, she has a lot, but always brilliant. But she plays all the different characters. Yeah, the Justin Timberlake. Wait, it's a 100% song. Where am I? It's a must listen. Yeah, 100%. I did that one in like a day and a half. Oh my god, everybody knows. Okay, that's what we're here for. Girls are sharing with one another. I love this. Thank you guys so much. Truly. Thank you.