Dan Richards - Debunking the Debunkers - Megalithomania Podcast

Hey Megalithomaniacs, we're here with the one and only Dan Richards from the Dedunking YouTube channel and he's been doing some quite remarkable research in my opinion over the last year or two where he's been debunking the debunkers amongst other things. But one of the things Dan did that kind of impressed me was kind of back up Graham Hancock because he gets so attacked by so many people for such bizarre reasons including racism as one of them and when he started doing that I really started taking notice because I thought you know I know Graham I've known him for quite a few years and I see that and I'm just like my god how can these people actually even say that if you've actually read his books there's not a hint of racism in them and I've read pretty much everything he's done yeah and there's nothing like that no not at all why do you think that's just such a you know issue the thing is um the people they'll they'll weasel out of it so we should say that right off the bat those guys I never said Graham was racist I just said that he encourages racism he supports racism but the fact of the matter is that did you my comment section you I'm sure you're getting it frequently my comment sections are full of people saying you know that Graham Hancock is a racist he's a white supremacist and and it is an insane thing and I think the reason that they did it is is kind of transparent um if you want to bring people in to this that don't really give two shits about the pyramids start crying racism or anything that's going to drag people in on a political level and now you're going to get some people involved and also I think it's a psychological um it's a psychological excuse because I mean let's be clear these guys spent hours and hours and hours online yelling at people that disagree with them and I've compared it to if you know if your kid came to you your 16 year old kid and was like man I love Halo so I was just on Reddit for like six hours yelling at the Call of Duty guys and telling them how bad their game sucked you'd be like whoa what the ****'s wrong with you but then if the kid was like yeah but that's because Call of Duty's racist at least you could understand why in his head he's like boy I'm going to go fight racism for six hours by yelling about it's a very sleek way for them to lie to themselves yeah it's very it's very bizarre it is bizarre but but it's quite interesting because um you actually started challenging them on this like going into details and it's it's clear that a lot of the they haven't really read the books fundamentally I think I think that and they can't I think some of them admitted that later but I find that frustrating because that just shows you the kind of quality of people you're dealing with as well and then the whole flint dibble debate that went crazy everything kind of turned on its head with that um but regardless of that you've been doing other work you've been like visiting ancient sites you recently went to the sage wall yeah various places I've not been to I'm quite interested in that um there's a big debate about nature versus man-made maybe we could just start there I mean what's your thoughts on that well I um I'm making a video on it here before too much longer so I want to spoil a whole lot but there is definitely a lot of natural stuff in the region that looks very much like the sage wall the only difference is is the straightness um and the size um the rest of matter of fact from sage wall itself there's a point because you could look down this mountain there's a point where you can see another ridge that's almost it's not quite as straight but it's pretty similar and it's about two miles away or so from there devil's playground is uh excuse me giant's playground is an area right there that is full of uh the same kind of megalithic rock structures that are that are clearly natural you can even see in places where dolmens have formed where you can see these rocks were just kind of jumbled up over here and then this big rock eventually got the rain made it kind of swiss kind of bread sliced it and then one piece fell off the end you can cut a lot of places you can suss how things went down and then there are places where you look at and you're like I don't see how the rock got on top of that one unless a person was involved so it's the whole area is really interesting yeah I mean I saw some of your photos I've seen previous photos I mean that dolmen thing super tall yes with the kind of cap it's just like what the hell it's like it's like someone's built that but then I've spoken to geologists and they say well actually that whole area if you start if you start scanning the mountains you see things a bit like that yeah but that one is quite a bit that one looks a little bit different that's the lack of a there's nothing around it to have fallen on it and that's where but what about what I asked Michael Collins this uh Wandering Wolf about if there's any points or arrowheads or small artifacts you know weapons or anything have been found there I mean did you come across anything no I didn't come across anything I mean did anyone as anyone not that I'm aware of because that would tell you if someone was there yes you know that's kind of a problem with a lot of the sites in the west is it can be very difficult to get artifacts from because it was okay to just grab the things and put them in a shoebox for so long like there's a place that I visited Lake Lenore Caves in Washington is part of right on the Channel Scablands part right next to where Randall it's less than 10 miles from Dry Falls as a matter of fact okay so but the Lake Lenore Caves were documented with having a bunch of pounding stones when they founded a bunch of stones for processing foodstuffs and whatnot and there's not a single thing to be found there now and there's nobody knows where these artifacts are now they're just the stuff that the locals will tell you there's not even an academic source for any of that it's just the locals yeah my great grandpa found arrowheads there my great great grandpa found but it's all gone now and it's the Lake Lenore Caves is a rockier area but it's the same kind of thing when you have people that go to those areas consistently that are out there enjoying nature and checking everything out a lot of times their eyes do go to the ground and they look for those things and for over 100 years people just grab them and walk away so it will take a real archaeology like actual hashtag real archaeology to get out there and dig a big old hole in the ground and sift some sand and you know to to determine but we do know that there were people in the region so it's not that's not a stretch it's just whether or not these different sites were used by humans or whether they were yeah I think I mean I've got to get out there at some point it keeps coming up you do it's great it's intriguing just uh it's a bizarre looking place it's such a great part of the country too it's so you you know your cell phone ain't gonna work most of the time but um man I get you know I'm pretty skeptical person but I do get pains in my elbow a lot from carrying ---- and stuff and I left uh there after a few days in Montana I just felt good my my arm didn't hurt and I drove six hours there and six hours back and I just felt better for a few days but there's not even there's no even planes that fly over for the most part the sky is just blue it is beautiful beautiful that's interesting that's interesting because uh one of the things I'm intrigued by you've been you've been doing quite a bit on archaeoastronomy I'm fascinated by the whole subject the whole thing on the solstice here at the cosmic site that kind of you know especially fascinating since we discovered this Karahan Tepe thing and you now I just want to get maybe just a brief opinion on the Karahan Tepe illumination of the head I mean what did you I mean maybe I don't know if you see much about that and it's very comes through this tiny gap at this sharp angle and only works on those few days and that really kind of um got me I mean because it fits in with loads of other cultures you know the way they have blades of light marking calendrical things yeah and so um I mean do you think you know do you really believe that the Tastepala people had this level of knowledge oh I'm absolutely in my opinion I think personally I think that um well I'll start I'll preface it with this there are species of spiders that navigate by stars species of spider that navigate by star what yeah yeah you can look into that if you don't believe me there at home but the idea that humans a hundred thousand years ago weren't using the stars is stupid and the idea that we just like started picking this up is ridiculous and if if we assume that these people were seafaring at any point in their history or that they inherited skills from a seafaring culture the level of astronomy is going to be much higher because it's it's one thing to use the astronomy to tell the time for mundane reasons another thing all together to use it to navigate to use it to predict crops and herds and stuff and so the guys that were like I can't find my way home if I don't know where the stars are those guys the guys they're going to have the good astronomy and historically better astronomy usually results in the displacement of the old religion with the one that brings a better astronomy this has happened hundreds of times yeah yeah I mean and on the subject of the whole test tablet stuff I mean there's been I was there recently just in May and I know we know Jimmy Corsetti very well he's been out there he's been like researching and looking at the olive tree issue they've all been removed now which is I couldn't believe it good on Jim I couldn't believe it I mean I was there I've been going there for like a decade and like suddenly there's no olive trees and suddenly you see all this ground and you can see it's all rubble you can see it's all filled in material this is not ground this is not ground level and it just just hit me when I went there it's like oh my god they've got to excavate this now there's no there's no other option they have to do it and you know and that really impressed me the way he he's a bit intense you know when he kind of pushes against the archaeologists they get a bit upset but he kind of just he doesn't quit yeah that's what I like about him I liked him quite a bit and he kind of got in there and and it kind of like oh this is like so I was actually supporting him and helping him anywhere I could because I felt it needed addressing because it seems like the archaeologists there are just you know mundanely getting on with stuff very slowly claiming they're not going to excavate it and then suddenly his campaign seems to have changed things now they say they're going to excavate some of it it's you know it's a it's become you know the archaeologists here in the aren't really recognizing it as well as it seems like the archaeologists in Turkey they've got their finger on the pulse enough they're they see which way the wind's blowing and you know once we got over here they're just kind of we're right it's like okay well the the rest of the world is kind of you're you're proving to the rest of the world that you're not so right that you're the way that they changed their positions on the trees I felt inclined to make a video because when Jimmy started yelling about the trees they the narrative that was coming from these guys was oh those trees we've those were put there to stop the erosion on the hill that didn't erode the site away for 12,000 years we need to stop the erosion so this is site management you guys don't know what you're talking about so I go look into it and it turns out not only is it not site management it was planted by the home the property owner because the Turkish government's coming to buy it and it's like well desert land's worth x desert land with trees on it's worth y i want y so he sold it for more money that way but then that so that the property soil management's bullshit as is the the trees are extremely damaging to archaeological sites not just the foundations and stuff a lot of they punched holes through that stratigraphy and they introduce things into different layers that shouldn't be like for example in the United Kingdom there's a snail that is used I don't can't remember the species but this snail is used to determine and I think it's like 1400 years ago that this snail was introduced into the United Kingdom so anything before that won't have that snail and if they're trying to date an area they'll look if they find that snail okay anywhere where tree roots exist that snail will go down further than it's supposed to so it ruins their stratigraphy their ability to use this this tool so there's a lot of just different little stupid reasons that they they argued it tooth and nail then Lee Clare says all right man we're going to take those trees out we're going to and then all of a sudden oh they were always going to do that they've been talking about that for years man what's wrong with you guys what jimmy didn't do anything jimmy jimmy who Lee Clare doesn't know who jimmy is the other the other thing on Gobekli Tepe I know you're interested in is uh the the Martin Swetman work on yeah oh yeah the lunisolar calendar because he's also applied that to Karahan Tepe the same bit where the winter solstice alignment occurs it's almost like supposed to be there I mean he didn't even know about a winter solstice thing and he developed this calendar based upon the stone head and the pillars and with the starting point unclear and then suddenly it's like oh well obviously it's going to start on the winter solstice because that's when the head gets lit up and so I've been in contact I've been in discussions with him about that because we think this there could be a strong contender it backs up his work and it backs up our work so we're like oh wow but his pillar 43 stuff is absolutely mind-blowing it's really intriguing and the one thing I like about him he spent two or three years working on that article working on that paper got it thoroughly peer-reviewed not from the archaeologists at Gobekli Tepe and they complained about it but got it peer-reviewed published in a scientific journal and so really until proven otherwise it's a fact that there are astronomical and possibly astrological parts of Gobekli Tepe and Karahan Tepe which is like big news and it was big news it went crazy but since then there was a backlash against it as you know both Nishmi Kural the head excavator of Karahan Tepe and Lee Clare both put it out there no they had roofs there couldn't have been any astronomy at all even though there's clear symbolism everywhere and they even kind of deny that there's anything to do with astronomy there which is so wild to me it's so weird and it's like even the paper that he published Lee Clare on the kind of you know the sort of the leaders of Gobekli Tepe he absolutely said nothing in there mentioned anything about the hunter-gatherer data on the way they followed the solstices and the stars and so they're kind of dismissing it from their own academic writings based upon a roof there's no evidence ever existed and so Martin Sweterman is kind of like went boom and because it's peer-reviewed scientific paper it's like pushed it all open again but I mean what are your thoughts on that I mean what do you get the way because to me Martin Sweterman he's a scientist he's not an archaeologist but he's a scientist he knows how to do things properly not only that archaeoastronomy you know who Sir Alexander Tom was oh of course yeah of course I figured you did I was pretty sure you mentioned him in your presentation yesterday because we talked about the megalithic yard and stuff but he was an engineer he was a numbers guy if you look at there's a paper that I use frequently when I talk about the temples on Malta is about I think it's 1992 they found that it wasn't serious that they found but they found those temples were were aligned to crux the now they found that they determined this with a team of an astronomer an archaeologist and a number cruncher this is always part of the equation there's two kinds of archaeoastronomy they call it the the old world new world basically and the new world astronomy archaeoastronomy generally speaking we don't know much about the mythology of the old world we usually do but the the old world archaeoastronomy will follow the new world methodology if it lacks that knowledge which we lack and go back with Tepe or a car on Tepe so you use mathematics to extrapolate or to excuse me to eliminate chance as much as possible so this is where a guy like Martin Swetman you know David Miano from world of antiquity in my mind famously blasted him for being a math well that's what this guy is not even he's not his he's not even belong in this he's just a chemistry guy he doesn't it's like well he he's a number cruncher he doesn't he deals in probabilities and things like this this is exactly traditionally exactly the kind of person they brought to bear on this so right off the bat say that argument that you'll frequently hear that he doesn't belong there is is bullshit furthermore it's extremely intriguing because the ancients like i said even the spiders use the dang stars the ancients use the stars for so many things and like uh i'm not a believer in astrology but i personally am of the belief that the reason that the astrology belief today is is harkens back to the time when there was the one guy that said two days we're going to need to plant the crops and five days the buffalo are going to be back he could predict the future using the stars we this is important stuff and to just assume that the ancients there is no in my mind there is absolutely no way that people started stacking rocks before they started marveling at the sky you would spend all day long protecting your family protecting your children feeding your stuff taking care of your hearth and then at night you would watch the only show there was to watch exactly yeah and so i yeah i i i think it's it's hubris and a lot of it is because archaeologists are 180 degrees looking the opposite direction their noses in the dirt and this is all in the heavens yeah i mean the most unscientific thing that the whole gobekli tepe thing relating to the stars not relating to the stars is that there's no evidence for any roofs over the main enclosures yeah they just they just postulate that yeah they've got basically they found two negatives of poles which are only about two meters long and they're extrapolated from that and assumed yeah assumed so what so what that is though i mean they've i mean they've excavated a lot of debris out the way and no other negatives have been found just these two negatives about two meters long that doesn't equate to a huge roof and so that so and there's literally no evidence there's nothing left of it it's just possible you know could have been like a dead snake or stiff who knows you know it could have been anything place to hang your socks but they put that out now on wikipedia in the in every possible article news report update everything and they keep repeating it and then they paint so this is what bugs me i mean i'm no i'm not an archaeologist i'm not a scientist but just an observer you can see there's something fundamentally wrong with that because now because of this assumption there's no astronomy at play in the entire region ever yeah and it's written out of all the literature and dismissed and ridiculed sadly pretty common and it's just but you know the fact that it's not based on anything proven or scientific i mean i think there's a lot of that's a good to me that's a representation of a lot of what is going on they we can't speculate but they can speculate and put it out as a fact to speculate all they want yeah and they can put it and they put it out as fact it goes on wikipedia and so so that that really bugs me i mean there's many examples you've touched on over the years where that kind of thing's been happening but is there anything that you've been focusing on recently which has kind of really grabbed your attention i've been um we're going through zahi hawass's joe rogan appearance as painful as it is i mean we all know that a lot of what he said was just stupid but it really needs hammered at and apparently the archaeologists aren't going to do it and so even though all the scientists are like oh we fact check our own and i just that's you know i've seen them more the most majority of the complaints that i have seen have been about zahi saying that he discovered everything and basically not giving his colleagues enough credit because they're not they're not complaining about him saying that he doesn't believe in carbon so i've been working on this a bit like i'm the next video that on that will be about the uh the 30 000 year king's list and going back to the followers of horace shimshuho and all that because apparently you know if the number one egyptologist in the world doesn't know it i assume that some of my followers might not too i know but he said basically like he didn't know what zep tepe was is that hang on a second have i just how could he i know i know about that he's in the top egyptologist on the planet that's it's insane and there's a cute little fact about that too is that zep tepe used to have its own wikipedia entry zep tepe but now it's rolled into the egyptian mythology page and that's happened since zahi hawass's little shenanigans and and in addition to that when i mentioned this on twitter oh we've been talking about doing that for years just like the trees well that's once again uncanny timing it's like you guys think that we're like like you're you're ******* like stupid kids and i'm like i have to know timmy i know that you stole the cookie out of the cookie jar you ******* idiot and it's like that you just feel like you have to admonish these guys like they're kids it's like this is so transparently stupid it's becoming i think the internet has like really kind of changed things and the way the way you know you can call these people out now yeah quite effectively and then you got you know you've got people like the big podcast you've got joe rogan who called them out he just he just speaks what he thinks he doesn't care about any ramifications and that is i think it's refreshing for a lot of people especially as most people go to these podcasts and to youtube for their real information about ancient history nowadays they don't really rely on textbooks written by zahi hawass although he claims everything in his book is the only truth of course 88 bucks how much the truth that's what really gets me i mean he's i've met him i met him once actually at breakfast in a hotel that was kind of bizarre but anyway um but i was talking i'm sure you've spoken to them the the saskang guys you know filipo and amando and there's another chap who's involved as well but he's not around here um they came in i did a really quite a long interview and they explained it all in detail more so than in the lecture and it kind of really what do you i mean i'm quite compelled by that i've got quite a kind of feeling there's something going on there i mean i mean i mean what do you have any initial kind of thoughts about that i've looked into it a bit the uh i think that there's something there i don't think that like the way that they're doing is they're using ai right there's what they're synthetic synthetic aperture radar um they'll fly over the site if our data is already there they've flown over the sites numerous times and so they'll take uh topographical changes changes in the surface up to two centimeters they can detect from the space with the stuff as it currently is and then they look at the changes that have happened in it and use ai to extrapolate like if you imagine um just to really dumb it down if you had like a a tunnel going under a piece of bedrock and you had an earthquake that the that bedrock would the the particles on top of the bedrock would shift differently where it was solid rock within over where it was a tunnel so they're using ai to try to put all this together um i think that this is why personally i think the five kings chambers is ai giving it an extra finger something kind of thing i think that there's we're going to get a lot of these weird ass artifacts like we have with ai for but i also think that the outright knee-jerk dismissal by people that are like well that's not how sar stuff works is about in my mind the same as somebody standing there looking at a jet engine in 1942 going that's not how airplanes work it's like well okay but that is how they work now brah sorry and if this hadn't been egypt it wouldn't have got the knee-jerk reaction we did from people like flint and other people like that but as it is being pyramids we can expect anything and everything that gets you know that says that it was very funny to me because christopher dunn actually had one of the smartest takes on this that i've seen anybody have and he's a horrible woo peddler he's an og pyramid idiot but he's he's like you know i really want this to be true this this is exactly what i would expect to find so i'm gonna put a pin in this and be really skeptical because this is this sounds a little bit too good to be true but i can't disregard the scan data and so that's i i i tend to agree with him a lot on that yeah no i'm it's absolutely fascinating to me because when this stuff was used by my good friend andrew collins yeah 2008 when he was looking for the extension of the tomb of the birds or the nc2 cave on the giza plateau and he was using that that technology back then so it's been around it's just been adapted and expanded upon i didn't realize that they need almost like supercomputers to run the data that's why it's taking so long to do everything yeah they have to double check it triple check it and do all this it's quite it's quite kind of i mean i was surprised how technical it was yeah it was pretty pretty complicated stuff it's not just you know because there's been other kind of scan type technologies which have been introduced here and there over the last couple of decades and they're very vague nothing really occurred from them but this one seems to kind of hit a nerve like it's kind of hit something and especially with all the previous stuff they were doing like the bridges the different structures and everything else before they even looked at the giza plateau to check it possibly could work so that that really got me um i mean there's just so much going on in that that that kind of part of the world with that and even trevor grassy i was talking to him and he's sort of been going down into these shafts so they've now looked at all the shafts on the giza plateau i found all them they've kind of backed all that up even one under the sphinx which is utterly mind-blowing but it's quite i mean i'm just kind of no that's wow yeah pretty blown away by all that yeah it's it's kind of a if this technology if they uh are able to make it viable and known to work and consistently work it's going to be a game changer on across the board it's going to change militaries are going to ---- their pants first of all that's going to be don't matter where you put them icbms buddy we see them now um all of the what's in the grand canyon we can oh you're going to tell me i can't go to that part of the grand canyon **** you i'm going to grand canyon did you hide me chinese chinese pyramids from us so **** you i'm taking pictures your chinese pyramids so there's that but then it's this is also like just the sheer financial weight of it it's like um imagine the the amount of work that uh a mining company puts into flying drones over an area doing lidar and surfaces or on ancient apocalypse season two you see in the part where there's all these lidar drones being sent out into the south american rainforest maybe just five archaeologists with their people to help them and then some lidar drones and stuff or buy the data from the satellites it's already been flown over it's like wow and that at that point if you get conspiratorial you're like okay the government's ain't gonna like this right so you they can't shoot down the satellites because we already got the data so even if you blast all the satellites put us back in stone age data still exists but if you have access to that data again they go by dates so it's like okay this day this happens on this day this happened this day this happened feed all that in the computer and blah just so if you just go in there and kind of shuffle the dates around a little bit now this data this whole technique won't work anymore and as long as you put the right time stamps on it so it will be possible for them to short circuit this still but um when you got those goofballs on 4chan and ---- they'll just like sit there and stare at the computer all day so if we sick them on that they'd probably make sure that didn't happen that's a good point that's a good point so while we're in egypt there's um uh first of all we had the the vases or the vases the you know beautifully stone pots yeah and i've seen that i didn't see them here but i've seen i've been to i saw i went to matt's i saw them all i was like oh wow oh yeah that kind of really really got me because you know they're just like this is quite remote beautiful and i've seen a few in a few museums here and there as well but the technology of that has been a big debate about that i know we know our friend ben van kerkwijk's working on it matt and a few others adam young and others but there's um you showed me something when we were chilling out about the smooth granite granite kind of surfaces don't laughing yeah and that really caught my attention because that isn't public knowledge that is not really well no no it's not well noted it should be but it's just not it's um well stone lapping is you take two pieces of stone and it works really well with things like granite and they put a quartz and then some water and they just rub the stones together and they do this for a really long time and eventually i mean if you go to a machine shop they have a precision granite countertop and almost every one of them and that's how they made it and if you actually send it in to get repaired that's what they're going to do to repair it they'll just scan it back down with another it's called stone lapping y'all can look it up on the internet it's all over the place but this is a technique that will explain like precision mirror polished surfaces and it also it's it's why a lot of those archaeologists say that well you know they just took some sand to make these faces because they're assuming that they're just measured to ---- and you could hypothetically spin one and then use just this the same technology the same technique put a piece of wood with some grit in there and it just slowly right but um that wouldn't account for the precision that we see clearly but yeah it's the kind of thing that's definitely a game changer as far as like when you look at ancient ancient stonework i felt bad your friend greg said immediately was just like oh man you ruined my weekend damn it sorry man i wasn't trying to ruin your weekend bro it is important to take into account though i mean i like to quote aj from the y files when i talk about that one it's like if you you know he says that if uh we can debunk 95 of things it's not trying to debunk your favorite thing it's trying to make that other five percent that much cooler because it really is if you know if you've actually tried to tried to solve these things meticulously the ones that can't be solved actually can't be solved it's not just man i think that was really cool because there's a lot of things like that the pointing machine is another one where they were able to uh did i show you that one yesterday as well okay the pointing machine is a technique where they would use to uh reproduce greek statues the romans did it and you still take the skilled sculptor but it's basically a three point measuring thing and they'll just take it repeatedly and move it back and forth from one thing to another until they've carved it exactly how they want it and this is a very low-tech solution to why all the egyptian faces are symmetrical and look the same because you're just scaling the same thing up and down but um it's not to say that that's not there's these are techniques that are there's one of the things that's really funny about the people oh it's low tech tech thing oh it's so terrible it's like well these are techniques that the romans didn't their machine was pretty piss poor the ones the egyptians had to be pretty about the about the ones that were on par with the renaissance so it's like the same thing even if you take the position of they could make those vases with a primitive lathe the primitive lathe isn't supposed to have been in egypt for until like i want to say like 1600 bc and so you talk on pre-dynastic times you're pushing it back at least another 1500 years or so so all of a sudden this is even if it's even if none of the woo stuff is right it's still this is actually kicking the ball down the court this is actually changing and hilariously ben told me he's like yeah all these guys they've changed their they've moved the goalposts now it's like yeah they had a primitive lathe back then and it's like they will never in a million years give any of you all the credit they've been they're going to get credit for that they they came up with it this this is that's another thing isn't it like credit where it's due which doesn't really damn well happen thank you know yeah i think that's one of the issues with like um you know coming back to karahan tepe firstly you know you got the you know we've discovered this winter solstice thing it's pretty solid it's like millions to one chance of it being coincidence and yet no way are they ever going to accept it because they didn't discover it so it's going to be pushed away and also warren karahan tepe on the same subject of those those vases those beautiful stone plates have been found there hundreds of them now in uh and they are amazing i mean they're 9400 bc they're not the level of the kind of vases or anything vases but they were doing it back then for sure they were doing something very accurately very beautifully back then i mean you can see that yeah the intricate stonework how exceptional it was so the idea of working with very hard stone goes back at least to the end of the last ice age which is pretty impressive i've said this before so forgive people who've seen me before but uh the uh you know if you look at human evolution and hominid evolution stone was the premier weapon building material the premier building material it and wood but stone was the good one for millions literally millions of years so if you think about a father teaching his son this digital subtle techniques and we learn these for millions of years and then you get to a point where all of a sudden we're working bronze now we're working copper and the copper is just easier to work it's faster and i get something that's sharper and it's a little bit more durable um it doesn't take long how much do you know about horseback riding compared to your great great grandfather **** all yeah me too okay so this is what i mean really quickly all of this type of two million years of knowledge gets lost and um an example i use of this frequently is in world war ii all the american sniper schools were impromptu they were set up spur of the moment and they were the first things that got shut down when the belt started tightening at the end of the war come vietnam 20 years later a couple years in and the uh people the brass are begging for snipers that are trained the united states army had to go to their marksman their olympic marksman team to train their snipers because they had none left these guys had better tools were getting worse results because the knowledge has been in one generation gone so it's in my mind i think that there's i think that these guys were i i honestly believe that if we watch them build the pyramids that i think it would be less of a oh my god that really oh my god you're kidding me that's how i honestly think it would be something that simple when we do just like something it's like yeah my great great grandpa showed me that yeah yeah i know i can see that as well so let's finish up on yes something quite interesting we were briefly discussing the other day uh terrazzo which is this kind of um lime mortar cement which was originally thought to be kind of developed or invented by the romans but since then it's been found at many of these sites in southeast turkey going back at least until 9600 bc because it's like a beckley teppan there's possible evidence it's even older than that because some of the sites they're now finding evidence of it go back at least a few hundred years before that so that is a technology that is like a kind of innovation where they were heating up something like 850 degrees which at the time they weren't supposed to be doing anything like that so i mean what's your take on the whole terrazzo thing and we can then briefly mention is it a geopolymer or not well um the the idea that i've always found the idea that they couldn't get things to like a little bit hot 800 degrees is hot but it's not insanely hot it's not melting iron hot um i've always found that kind of stuff a little bit funny because like i don't know if you've ever seen a rocket stove for example right where it's just a tube like this and you can make your head you can make that ---- work and these guys they dealt with the natural world they played with these kinds of things and things like fire were going to be i have a very difficult time believing that they weren't able to to generate a lot of heat a lot more easily than these guys give them credit for um there's a good possibility this stuff was passed around the uh i'm a bit personally i'm a big proponent of um like the polynesian that there was a bunch of people running around in boats back and before the ice age and that these guys they were they were advanced compared to their contemporaries or compared to what we would expect expect and i think wouldn't be surprised at all if those guys were wielding kind of thing that we find that all across the world um all across the ancient world it's it's it's it's funny to me the way that they get these kinds of things get handled because they want to reject even though we know the romans had that stuff they want to reject this stuff out of hand even though it is really low tech i mean when it really comes down to this is really low tech but it's funny that on the one hand they say these these guys were just as smart as us and then on the other hand they'll be like well they're too stupid to figure out how to make fire hot this is just like yeah so yeah there is that and then that's that kind of thing about the whole geopolymer thing which is getting a kind of comeback at the moment thanks to i think what was it marcel yeah and uh i haven't read the book yet but i'm gonna get a copy and have a look just out of interest but that's kind of a thing as well i mean people are kind of comparing terrazzo to that which i don't think is really the same thing yeah i think i honestly i i'm not a huge fan of marcel's work because of the things that he's he he does he says things that are demonstrably false and i don't mean like i disagree with you on this things like the salt around the salt lake isn't salt it's natron it's like well no five percent of its natron the other 95 percent are salt ask the mormons have been selling it to us for 200 years it's that kind of stuff and he'll talk about how this this can't detect that and then it's i i don't i don't want to bash the guy too hard but i don't i do not i find a hard i have a hard time trusting his work very well so um i am into geo the possibility of geopolymers another another reason is like he believes the barbaric caves were geopolymer he believes a great pyramid is geopolar every base is a geopolymer no clearly not so um at that point you know one size fits all solutions that are never accurate but geopolymers in and of themselves there are from what i understand there are places in south america like pumapuku where they have been uh like there's some scientists that have said that there's signs of geopolymer there and um again you know we know that the romans were working with concrete we know that the ancients messed around with this kind of stuff it's not it i don't think they were making synthetic stone but i could absolutely see them making things we might mistake for stone like a big concrete block right and i think that disregarding that out the gate again these are low-tech solutions we've got mysteries here we've got real mysteries here this is i think this will piss me off about archaeologists to the bitter end we have real mysteries here and clearly the way any sensible person would solve that if you put the vase way up here and you say this is ancient high technology you start here with rubbing stand and rock and you work your way up to this doesn't work this doesn't work this doesn't work eventually you're like okay space lasers ******* i don't know what else right you got to get there and so a lot of these guys they jump right past it and because of that a lot of these archaeologists don't even start it's like we're not going to address there's no mystery it's like well okay if you don't address the mystery the other guy's not going to start at the bottom he's going to start where the **** he wants on that list and then you're going to turn around and say oh you guys are a bunch of idiots who believe in ancient high technology it's like there's a ******* mystery here could you help us solve it with all those credentials and all that money that our tax no i'm too busy yelling at you on the twitter let's become a kind of part of the job now isn't it yeah has his freaking bio has made 433 tweets against graham hancock since 2008 one of his credentials it's quite it's quite concerning to say the least but anyway yeah well i mean we'll wrap it up now okay thank you dan oh thank you this has been great man it's really good to meet you in person this is awesome yeah for sure i really appreciate it i mean just to let people know on the megalithomaniac channel check out dedunking um on youtube i'll put all the links in below and you really gotta check out his channel it's brilliant he's got a perfect sense of humor in my opinion it fits right in with my weird warped head and uh yeah so check that out thanks for watching megalithomaniacs and we'll see you soon