Japanophiles- Astrid Klein & Mark Dytham - Japanology Plus

A distinctive facade inspired by traditional Japanese open-work carving, it's a landmark located on one of Tokyo's most iconic shopping streets. This is a bookstore lounge that masterfully fuses international design sensibilities with the essence of traditional Japanese culture. These designs are the work of Astrid Klein from Italy and Mark Dytham from the United Kingdom. They met at the Royal College of Art in London and came to Japan in 1988. Since then, they've designed not only buildings but also interiors and furniture, creating spaces that foster communication and creativity for those who spend time there. In this episode, Astrid Klein and Mark Dytham share insights from their decades of work in Japan. Hello and welcome to Japanology Plus, I'm Peter Barraka. Today we present one of our Japanophile profiles. I'll be talking to the architectural team of Astrid Klein and Mark Dytham, who say that living and working in Japan provides them with their inspiration. Their office is just a few minutes from here, so let me go and join them. Hi, hello, welcome. Nice to see you again. Good to see you. Thank you for having us. I love your welcoming gnome. Come on in. Okay. Let me introduce you to everybody at KDA. Hello. Hello everyone. And this is our best partner, Hisayama. Nice to meet you. So, this is the big team, you know, without the team nothing happens. Okay, right. So, you know, it's not just two people. Really, this is the man. They do all the work, we just direct, you know. Klein-Dytham Architecture was founded in 1991. Together with a team of around 20 people, the two work on designs in multiple fields, including architecture, interior design, public spaces and installations. Do the two of you split duties or you collaborate on everything or how does it work? It's Mark, myself and Hisa and we oversee every single project together. And of course, everybody has their own speciality or something that they're good at and so we combine it. And the team as well, you know, everybody has their favorite thing they work on and depending on what project we're working on, we put the team together like that. But we generally oversee all the projects together. Because, you know, four eyes see more than two eyes, six eyes see more and so on. At the end of the day, it really becomes a Klein-Dytham Architecture project rather than a Klein project or a Dytham project. So, it's like the early days of Leonard McCartney. Let's take a look at a few of their best-known works. This is the Leaf Chapel, completed in 2004. The roof is shaped like two overlapping leaves, one made of glass, the other of steel. The highlight of wedding ceremonies is the moment when the groom raises the veil to kiss the bride and the roof simultaneously opens to reveal a beautiful natural backdrop. Gore is a hotel activity center that looks like mushrooms popping up in the forest. Consisting of a children's play area, a library with a fireplace in its center, and a restaurant, the three connected structures are a place for guests to share the same space and enjoy their time freely. The work that firmly established Klein and Dytham's reputation was Teasight in Tokyo's Daikanyama district, built in 2011. It's a commercial complex with a bookstore, several cafes and shops. The bookstore is spread across three buildings, each featuring a design based on a large tea. The client's bookstore starts with the tea and so we thought that rather than having a big signage in Daikanyama, which is not very cool, we devised a screen made of lots of little teas as well. You know, I've been here so often in the past and I never realized. We can show you a little secret about the teas, yeah. So with the teas, they're made from glass reinforced concrete and they're quite specialist but they're very large panels and because here we are in Japan in an earthquake country, they all have to move in an earthquake. Everything has to move in an earthquake. So this joint here, this is a solid concrete joint but to allow it all to move, we have a few secret soft joints to allow the whole facade to move in an earthquake. And this dimension was set up by the amount that we had to allow it to move in an earthquake and this is where this size came from. So a little secret. To encourage people to move between the three separate buildings, Klein and Dython created a single straight passageway linking all three first floors and filled it with magazines. They named it Magazine Street. So Magazine Street connects both all three buildings and there's this thing that we came up with is how do you navigate a massive bookstore? And so the idea is that you have this Magazine Street that runs, it's 50 meters, 50 to 70 meters long and when you find the magazines on fashion, that's where the fashion books are. When you find the magazines on cars, that's where the car books are. So it was like a, it's like a content spying that runs through. So you were involved in all of that organizing as well? It's all a part of the concept and obviously working with the client as a team. We always do that, yeah, so it's not just us. So there was a conscious effort to make this building feeling like your home, like your living room. This is Magazine Street. Okay. So when you find the art magazines. There are the art books and just to lighten it up, some fun goods. But the key thing with making Magazine Street the centerpiece, not only is it like the contents, but magazines change every month. So every time you come in, you see this, there's a constant change. There's nothing worse than going into a bookstore and it's the same old books or the same old thing. And so here, by making the magazines the center, there's always something fresh and new. The other thing is important is that the bookstore is broken down by these pop-ups and so there are other things than books. The books bring you here and the books are really important. Do you like going upstairs? Well, you don't even know what's up there. I don't really have a problem with it. It looks very inviting. Exactly. That's what the idea was. So make it look like a grand stair. If you don't go up the stairs, you feel like you're going to lose out big time. And so that's the idea of having these stairs looking a little bit special. A little bit grand. Yeah, grand. With the hand-hammered copper panels cladding it. Japanese artisan hand-made those. It's a very traditional technique. To make it look special, we also had these beautiful lights from Ingo Maurer. This is gold leaf. Real gold leaf. You know, gold leaf pattern is very Japanese. You find it in fusamas, you find it on lacquer bolts. Right. A little hint. So, of course, when you come up the staircase, you're confronted with this beautiful screen which has been made by a young Japanese artist called Kosaki. On the second floor is a spacious lounge with walls lined with rare magazine back-issues and works of art. Customers can also bring up books from the bookstore. It's a cozy, luxurious space where you can spend time at your leisure. The client always wanted, once was talking about it being romantic in here as well. It was very important. That's very unusual for a client to say, can you make my project romantic? Because he feels that people, couples would come here and it would be a place to hang out. Next, the three have come to Harajuku, the heart of Tokyo's youth culture, where the architects recently completed a striking project. So, Peter, welcome to the guitar store here in Harajuku. And this is your most recent project? Yeah, one of them. But yeah, it's quite a recent project. So the brief from Fender was to make it much more accessible so anybody could come in. We have a telecaster curb that runs through the store to draw you in. I've heard, actually, that the fastest growing group of people who are buying guitars now is young women. Hence, exactly, that was a brief from Fender. They totally know that. And so young girls were very intimidated by the traditional guitar store, where the guitars are jammed together, they're in sort of man caves, and yet they didn't go in. So this was to make it almost like a luxury store that you could come in, whether it's a handbag store or a jewelry store, but it's something that you could walk in and feel at ease. It does have a kind of boutique-y feel, doesn't it? But that was exactly the brief from the client. I've been thinking about this for years and years. But why don't you take me into the guitar area and introduce you to our good friend and client, Bud. Bud Cole. Bud, this is Peter Barraka. Hi, nice to meet you. What a pleasure. We always kind of say, you know, it's no good being a good architect if you don't have great clients with a vision. We're not going to get there, so that's the perfect combination. Can you tell us what your concept was and is for this store? We thought that with the world today, with luxury brands and lifestyle brands, and even computer brands like Apple are doing amazing things at retail, and it's a company that's so sensual and interesting and exciting, like Fender Music, the number one guitar brand in the world. And they helped us bring our dream to reality. They helped us take our thoughts and ideas about how people could experience and fall in love with guitars again. And they made them real. And what you see here in this store on all the floors here is the final result of that. We couldn't be happier. And we've had almost a million people walk through the store in two years. So not bad, huh? Impressive. Astrid Klein was born in 1962 in the Italian city of Varese. With an early talent for drawing, she dreamed of becoming an artist. My mother always wanted to be an interior decorator, so she kind of talked me into that. I did interior design because I liked sculpture and installations. I liked materials. I liked the way light hit it. I liked the colors. And so my mother cleverly said, look, how about you look at interiors as an installation? That's a good idea. And except while doing this interior design course, there was always a window in the wrong place. And so I said, well, you know, who decides about where the windows go? I have them to contend with it. So I better kind of have a good look at architecture as well. But so I made sure that I would do architecture in art-oriented school. Hence, I went to the Royal College of Art. Interesting. OK. Mark Dython was born in 1964 in the English county of Northamptonshire. As a child, he loved drawing and making models. When I was about 11 or 12, I remember going up to see where they were building the shopping center. And it's this incredible Messian building, which looks like a sort of a spaceship landed in the middle of the countryside as they were building it. And it's had a real impact on me. And from that moment, I was going to be an architect. Or you decided on the spot. So that's what I want to do. Ah, so the two of you meet at RCA. You're both in the same course, in the same year. And the thing was, I really liked Astrid's work because I could read it from the drawings, except she couldn't explain it very well in English. So that's where I came in. I would help her explain what she couldn't explain. Like, I think she means that and that and that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's exactly what I mean. So you became friends through that. Yeah. After graduating from the Royal College of Art, Klein and Dython both received scholarships and decided to visit Japan for research. They wanted to see Japanese architecture firsthand. You arrived here in 1988, which was the height of, well, everybody in Japan just refers to it as the bubble. It was an overinflated economy. If it wasn't for the bubble, we wouldn't have probably come to Japan. When we were at college, we were just seeing Shinkenjuku, all of the Japanese magazines, all this crazy stuff being built here. It was very avant-garde, wasn't it? Tokyo in the mid to late 80s. And after graduating from the Royal College of Art, we started to work in London and felt that it was so slow and everybody was doing traditional buildings. And in the city of London, the Royal Finance Commission... You had to be very contextual. Yeah. And, you know, kind of line windows up, roof lines up, be kind of, you know, the material choice was going to be contextual as well. And the planner then could tell you whether you did it or not. It wasn't really up to the architect in the end, you know. Whereas in Japan, we have no visual planning yet. And so, did you intend to do something together when you came here or was everything up in the air? Not really, not really. And you knew you might have been going right back to London afterwards. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We had some nice jobs lined up there, which we could have done a really fast career track. Yeah. But in the end, we decided that Japan was... Too interesting. Yeah, too interesting to go back. Every day you see something interesting or new, you know, that was... So you basically just ended up staying. I mean, you must have had to go back to get visas and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, first we asked our parents to send our winter coats, I think. But we didn't know if it was going to last for three weeks or three months, you know. How long did it last? Well, 30 years. These longtime residents of Japan share a favorite feature of Tokyo's train stations. Putting up all these kind of plastic sheets and tape them to the ceiling. And it has this lovely little tube going down the column. And again, very beautifully taped. And it goes into a pet bottle. Yes, I knew you were going to say that. And then the round pet bottle, you know, they're taping it again on the floor. So nobody kind of steps into it. Everybody be careful, you know. Maybe it's from my love for installations and sculpture. That, you know, I kind of... It fascinates me. And that's what's been interesting for us here. It's not just about Japanese-ness. Yeah. It's the Japanese approach to dealing with something. Which I think is really interesting, you know. After arriving in Tokyo, the two introduced themselves to a renowned architect. That person was Ito Toyo, who would go on to win the Pritzker Prize, the most prestigious award in the world of architecture. You know, when we wanted to come to Japan, we picked which architects would we like to go and see. And kind of, okay, we want this one, we want this one, we want this one. And we didn't realize two different buildings were both by Ito-san. Ito was already internationally renowned for his fluid and bold designs and use of membrane structures. His style as an architect was ever-changing and he unveiled ambitious projects one after another. Klein and Dytham worked for Ito for around two years before setting up on their own. I think that was one of the reasons why we were able to do what we were doing. I imagine it must have been very difficult for a foreigner to set up an office in Japan and become independent. It must have been a lot of hard work. Especially to be able to integrate into Japanese society. Especially the Japanese language. The Japanese language technology was amazing. What did you learn from him? What I think is fundamental to Ito-san's thinking is that first there are people, and then from there grows the architecture. It's not first there is the architecture and then people go in it. It's the other way around. So the architecture should grow out from the people. And so it's very people-centric in a way. And I think that's what we have in common. I think we always try to be very people-centric, human-centric rather than, you know, architecture-centric. Alongside their architectural work, Klein and Dytham have also focused on creating spaces where people can gather and connect. Notably, in 2003 they launched Pecha Kucha Night. It's an event where anyone can give a presentation on any topic in 6 minutes 40 seconds using 20 slides that change automatically. Every event has sparked new connections. Currently Pecha Kucha Nights are held in over 1,300 cities around the world. And you're already, I'm sure, quite busy enough with your architectural work. Is there any way that the two feed into each other? Yes, it does a lot. We learned a lot about how to get people into a space, appeal to them, keep them in the space so they are comfortable. You know, it has to do with the layout, with the furniture, with the lighting, with the sound, with the stage. What does it look like? With the order of the presenters. Yeah, we do. And, you know, it's kind of really understanding the audience, which is what you need to do for architecture. If you don't understand the audience or the people that go into your building, then you're kind of half missed out. You were saying earlier about your architecture trying to make it people-centric, human-centric. Yes, so very much so. You know, just imagine having a Pecha Kucha in here. Why not? Japan has many earthquakes, typhoons and other natural disasters. In March 2011, the Great East Japan Earthquake caused damage on an unprecedented scale, including to a nuclear power plant. Many people lost their homes and moved into temporary housing. Communities were broken apart and personal connections severed. But in the aftermath, something new was also created. The Home for All. These community hubs became a source of comfort for disaster victims. The idea was proposed by their mentor Ito Toyo and other architects. About 160 Home for All houses have been created around Japan. Klein and Dytham also took part in the project, constructing this building in northeast Japan. Then, following the 2024 Noto earthquake, they built another one in the affected area. And we're working in a town which only has 100 people but temporary housing. We've built a small Home for All there, which has been really successful and again bringing the community together. But before that, we've done a Home for All for kids in Soma, which is about 30 kilometers from the exclusion zone. There, the parents, for obvious reasons, were very concerned about their zero to three-year-old toddlers. You could see all these young parents being totally nervous and carrying their kids. Even, you know, they parked their car here and then they would carry the kids into the building. So the kids would never step outside on the ground. Okay, they needed a place for their kids to play safely. Exactly. So that's where we built the Home for All kids in Soma, which looked a bit more like a straw hat in the middle of the park. And we made the columns like trees. So the columns go up and then spread out like grass, they support that roof you're looking at. Within the structure, we've carved out birds and rabbits and different things. Squirrels and owls. So you can kind of make a treasure hunt for the animals, see how many animals you can find. Okay, I think we're up to our last question now and it's always the same one on the Japanophile programs. What is Japan to you? Oh, I didn't know this question was coming. That's a good one. Japan is my life now. I'm so glad I kind of chose to be here. For me, Japan is my friend. I really find it a very friendly country. I think for Brits, it's quite a lovely place. We're both island countries, we both have royal imperial families and there's some sensibility that I feel a kinship, a friendship with Japan. But it's also super inspiring every day. There's always something new and something inventive that keeps us here. Yeah, I think in that sense, Japan is full of opportunities and I think that's what I'm most grateful for. You've got to obviously be able to spot them and I think that's why we came here in the first place and that's why we stayed here in the first place. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you, Peter, it's been brilliant talking to you today. I really enjoyed this.