2nd Speech Argument 1 Prophecy and Miracles Continue

All right, so once again, this is my second response to Michael Holloway. His attempt to negate my argument and respond scripturally to my questions, I would say is disappointing, to say the least. I affirm miracles and prophetic gifts ceased according to the Bible testimony at the coming of the Lord in the first century generation, and I asked for scriptural proof that Justin Martyr spoke by inspiration. Let's see if I can get this going where, yeah, I can see a few comments here, which is probably going to be a little difficult. Now, so the question is, where is the scriptural proof that Justin Martyr spoke by divine inspiration? Michael offered none. He offered Justin Martyr's personal but conflicting testimony. Apparently, though he will deny it in word, yet in practice, he believes Justin Martyr's words take precedence over scripture. He cited Justin Martyr's words as proof. Perhaps Michael should tell the audience why Justin Martyr's words should be accepted above the words of John Chrysostom, who lived from 347 to 407 AD, who is also considered as a church father, who said that the gifts had ceased long ago. Here's his quote, because if he and Don Preston supplied the word Paul so that we know, and he's commenting on what is restraining the man of sin. And so he says, and I quote, because if he meant to say the spirit, he would not have spoken obscurely, but plainly that even now the grace of the spirit, that is the gifts withhold him. And otherwise he ought now to have come when the gifts ceased for they have long since ceased. Now, the point that I'm making is that John Chrysostom, who was also one of these church fathers, as they are called, stated that the gifts had long since ceased. And of course, he lived a little bit after Justin Martyr, but there's his testimony. So my question is, why are we going to accept Justin Martyr over his testimony? We got one saying they were continuing. We got another one saying they ceased. Now, John Chrysostom, this is in his Homily 4, 2 Thessalonians 2, 6-9, in the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, volume 13, page 383. He also says that the gifts had long since ceased and therefore reasoned that Christ ought to have come when those gifts ceased. He understood that Christ's coming and the cessation of miracles went hand in hand. Tertullian, who lived from 145 to 220 BC, a Presbyter of the Roman church, also had something to say about the cessation of spiritual gifts. And I quote, for on Christ being baptized, that is on his sanctifying the waters in his own baptism, all the plenitude or fullness of bygone spiritual grace gifts ceased in Christ's sealing as he did all vision and prophecies, which by his advent he fulfilled. Whence most firmly does he assert that his advent seals visions and prophecy, accordingly showing as we have done both the number of the years and the time of the sixty-two and a half fulfilled heptomaths, which is the Greek term for seven, on completion of which we have shown that Christ has come, that is, has been born. Let us see what mean the other seven and a half heptomaths, which have been subdivided in obsession of the former heptomaths. Let us see, namely, in what event they have been fulfilled. So he says some of them were fulfilled in the birth of Christ and his coming in his first advent, but he says the others are fulfilled in the remaining seventy weeks of Daniel. Now, for after Augustus, who survived after the birth of Christ, are made up fifteen years. And he goes through all of these Roman rulers, and then he says to whom succeeded Tiberius Caesar and held the empire twenty years, seven months, and twenty days. Let us see, what is that? Twenty-eight days, excuse me. In the fifteenth year of his empire, Christ suffered, being about thirty years of age when he suffered. Again, Caius Caesar, who is also called Caligula, three years, eight months, and thirteen days. This stuff is in Roman numerals. Nero Caesar, eleven years, nine months, and thirteen days. Galba, seven months, six days. Otho, three days. Vitellius, eight months, seventeen days. And then Vespasian, in the first year of his empire, subdues the Jews in war, and there are made sixty-two years, six months. For he reigned eleven years. And thus, in the day of their storming, the Jews fulfilled the seventy heptomads predicted in Daniel. In other words, he said the seventy weeks of Daniel were fulfilled. Therefore, when these times also were completed, and the Jews subdued, thereafter it ceased in that place libations and sacrifices, just as Daniel 9, 24 says, which also says that's when he would seal up vision and prophecy, which thenceforth have not been able to be in that place celebrating. And this is written in Antimicing Fathers, Tertullian, An Answer to the Jews, volume three, page 160. Now he lived somewhat concurrently with Justin Martyr and was considered a very notable scholar and logician in his day. Justin Martyr has already told us that many pious and faithful Christians did not accept his viewpoint on the resurrection of the flesh and the thousand years reign. Thus, if many did not, he is not, therefore, an authority on what the majority or many in the church believe. Justin Martyr also said some Christians denied the resurrection, that is, his view of the resurrection, but believed that when a person died, he would go to heaven. Now I want you to take note of that. Justin Martyr says that there were many people who rejected or denied his view of the resurrection of the flesh of the physical body and that his view of the resurrection, but believed that when a person died, he would go to heaven. Now that can only mean that the person had been raised out of sin death. Otherwise, he would go to Hades or if there had to be a Hades for him to go to, and thus he would not go to Hades, thus implying that Hades was already destroyed. And that sin, he had been delivered from sin death. Now, for if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this truth and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, who say there is no resurrection of the dead, meaning of the physical body or the flesh as Justin Martyr taught, and that their souls when they die are taken to heaven, do not imagine that they are Christians. Now this is in his dialogue with trifle and in I seen fathers volume one, page 239. Now the point that's being made here is if they're saying once again, that there were people who believed and taught that you go to heaven when you die, that's a preterist point of view. Now you may not have seen very much on it, but you got Justin Martyr's own testimony that there were people who were teaching in his day that people, when they died, that is when Christians died, they went to heaven. They did not go to Hades. That is a fulfilled perspective. Hades is destroyed at the coming of the Lord. And therefore people do not today go to Hades anymore. And he said, people were teaching that back in his day. So there's a preterist point of view for you. He says, then origin or origin, however you pronounce his name also stated that some Christians believed his view of the resurrection of the physical body was foolish. But now also for the sake of logical order in our treaties, there will be no absurdity in restating a few points from such works, especially since some take offense at the creed of the church, as if our belief in the resurrection were foolish and altogether devoid of sense. And these are principally heretics who I think ought to be answered in the following manner. Now he went on to try and answer with some of his argumentation about a resurrection of the physical body out of the flesh. And he called the people who opposed him heretics. But you know, people do that today. They call us heretics, right? But the point was, there's your evidence right from these writers that there were people who did not accept that. And Justin Martyr says there were many of them who did it. And it also is a testimony that they believed in something other than a resurrection of the physical body right there from their testimony. Now, having said that, I would like to, let's see, I'll just ignore the chart until a little bit later, but I have a chart I want to put up. And I'll just ignore that for right now. Now, number two,