Movie Couple Therapy: Chani and Paul from DUNE: PART TWO

Her entire life is freedom fighting. Her entire life is for her people and he comes to really love these people and now he does fight for them because he loves them. I'd very much like to be equal to you. That's a more than just a chemical compatibility or personality compatibility. That's a compatibility of shared focus values and mission. To accomplish the goal that they both share, he sees a way to do it. But in order to do that, he has to be not what Chani is in love with. I will love you as long as I breathe. It's not that they no longer want the same things. It's that they vastly disagree on the road to get there and the level of hurt that he has just put her through, no matter his intentions. Honestly, it is heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking to watch. Hello and welcome to Cinema Therapy. I'm Jonathan Decker, licensed therapist who loves movies. This is... Alan Seawright, a professional filmmaker and Lisan al-Gayyib. The Mahdi, the Qisas al-Khadaq. So... Perfect. Nailed it. That is the pronunciation, right? I get it? I've been doing this my whole life. I haven't. I'm new to Dune. You're not though. I'm such an old Dunie. Huge Dune nerd. I'm relying on you for lore while I talk about relationships. We're going to be talking about Paul and Chani in Dune 2. I'm going to be relying on Alan to be the Dune lore... The lore master. The lore master. And I am going to be commenting on Paul and Chani's relationship, doing a little movie couples therapy on this couple who are highly compatible when they meet, and they're very much not compatible by the end of the film. So how do you navigate evolving in different directions as people? Interesting. They have to act in this language that's not real. It's amazing. Yeah. And they do such a good job. How dare you say Chekhov says not real? She's right. I'm not here to lead. Let me fight beside you. That's all I'm asking. So she reconsiders. This feels as good a time to say as any. We're not going to delve into the fanaticism side of things here because we've got an entire Patreon episode. Yeah. We have a Patreon exclusive episode that is pretty beefy where we talk about fanaticism, religious, political. It's great. Religion and politics, exactly what everybody wants to talk about. Yep. And we do it on our Patreon, talking about the psychology of it. Because this scene, we approach through that lens over there. That's right. Here, I want to talk about what it means for Paul and for Chani. Her big eye roll. Her big eye roll. Because she believes that he's presenting himself to be the Messiah. Right. And when he says, I'm not. I'm just here to learn your ways. And he says, she's right. She reconsiders everything. And he shows that he's willing to accept influence from her. He's got so many different motivations playing. Oh, he's got layers on layers. He is both manipulating and believing the thing that he's saying. Yes. And he's also, you know, he noticed that Chani looks like... Zendaya? Yeah. It's like, all right. But at a different point, she talks about how he's different from other outsiders because he's sincere. Right. Which is both accurate and also, you know, there's more going on there. But at this point, he has clocked on her radar. Before, she thinks, okay, he's a great fighter, whatever. And she has compassion for the fact that he's an outsider in this harsh environment. He's probably going to die. But this is the first time she clocks him as somebody interesting because he accepts influence and he presents with humility. So right now, there's in the ballpark of compatibility. Paul and Chani might need some couples counseling if they're going to make this whole thing work. Yeah, they've been through a lot and they could probably use some individual therapy to help them with the trauma that they've both been through. Maybe they could have used BetterHelp. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp connects you with a licensed therapist who is trained to listen and to give helpful, unbiased advice. To get started, click the link below or go to betterhelp.com forward slash cinema therapy and fill out the questionnaire to assess your specific needs. You'll get matched with a therapist in most cases in 48 hours or less. BetterHelp has a network of over 30,000 therapists with a wide range of expertise. And they're committed to helping you find a therapist who's a good fit for you. So you can easily switch to a new therapist at no additional cost if the first one you're matched with isn't a good fit. You can choose a time that's convenient for you for your therapy sessions. And you can choose how you want to do your therapy sessions. A phone call, a video chat, even through messaging. You can even use a thumper to communicate with them through the sands of a ruckus. Probably not, but never say never, I guess. What if your therapist is a giant worm? Over 4 million people have used BetterHelp to start living a healthier, happier life. If you think that you might benefit from therapy, click the link below or go to betterhelp.com forward slash cinema therapy. You'll get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp, so you can connect with a therapist and see if therapy helps you. Your brain is broken! You know, I'm the only one who believes you're going to make it until summer. Everyone else thinks you won't make it two weeks. But if you want to follow us in the desert, you need to know how wind traps work. So listen to me. Isn't compatibility ballpark where the Arizona Diamondbacks play? I love that he's not watching what she's doing. He's got that dopey... Yeah, I love wind traps. Then he like makes a token gesture of looking up at what she was doing. Stop looking at me like that. Pretend like I'm not Zendaya, please. I know what this looks like. Just ignore this. This is almost exactly the same scene that Anakin and Padme has that also ends with her saying a very similar thing. And yet this clocks as sweet. Works like crazy. I think Timothee Chalamet is a better actor than Hayden Christensen. I know that sounds bad. But I think Timothee Chalamet is a better actor than most people. That's valid. Hot take. But he plays it as sweet, not as leering. Right. And that's the only reason that it works. And it's also the reason why instead of being creeped out, she's flattered by it. Wow. Timothee Chalamet. Okay, so we're just going to ignore all of that for the time being and just say that she believes in him as a person. Others are like, they believe in him as the Mahdi. They're projecting their messianic hopes onto him. And that's one group. And the others are like, this outsider is going to die. And he's going to die quickly. He's pathetic. And she's the only one who actually sees him. And that's why I really like them as a couple. Because she's not into him because he's like rock star famous. You know, or in this case, like... Ooh, it's Paul Atreides. Yeah, she's not into him because of that. She's into him because she's like, he's a good warrior. He's got a good heart. And he pays attention. Yeah, he's actually learning stuff. He might not die. And so she's willing to help him because she sees the value in him. And for his part, this is the first time since he's been separated from the rest of his family and the people that he cared about that he has felt safe and welcome instead of either revered or everyone hates me. Because he's in this harsh environment. And he's used to it. You think of his father. And you think of all the people in his life that he was close to. And he feels some of that from her, this kinship. Look, right there, Spice. It's like a giant cocaine field. Magic mushroom powder. I love this camera move. I don't believe you, Usul. What's your secret name? What does that mean? It means desert spring. Desert spring. I love it. I hate it. It's from some stupid prophecy. I prefer Johnny. I prefer Johnny too, then. Do you think Stilgar will teach me? To ride? Yeah. No. Only from in Rhyperbs. I thought I'd become one, didn't I? By name, not by blood. Your blood comes from dukes and great houses. We don't have that here. Here, we're equal. Men and women alike. What we do, we do for the benefit of all. Well, I'd very much like to be equal to you. And why it works is because it's not a line. Oh. Maybe you could be Fredman. Maybe I'll show you the way. Hans Zimmer comes in with the young love. I would put this love theme up there with any of the greatest love themes in musical history. Yeah. I'd put it right up there with the... We're going to go to John Williams, of course. Han and Leia. Indiana Jones. And Marion. Love theme. Honestly, the love theme, even though I don't care for the movies, the... The Tame Anakin. Across the Stars. Across the Stars love theme is an all-timer. I would put this right up in that category. It is stirring and emotional, and it gets inside your bones somehow. This whole scene, what goes through my mind is, what is compatibility? Because they come from very different worlds. Where I come from, rain falls from the sky and you can dive into the water, right? And where she comes from, they don't have dukes or kings or royalty. We're all equal and we work together for the benefit of all. I mean, on paper, they don't have anything in common. But compatibility doesn't necessarily equal sameness. It means how well do you go together? And the reason these two go so well together, at least right now, is because of mutual respect, mutual curiosity, and room to grow into each other's space. They're both willing to step into each other's worlds and evolve together. The thing that's going to undo this later on is, right now, they have a shared purpose. They have shared purpose and shared values. And later on, she's going to stay constant, and he's going to go a different direction. And it's honestly, it is heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking to watch. It's also very cool to watch, because visually... Oh my god! Even his shadow! Look at his shadow! Every house possesses an atomic arsenal. I thought ours had been lost. It's huge, Johnny. It could change everything. And I could aim the bombs at the main spice fields. He who can destroy a thing has the real control of it. So you can control it and not us? You promised me you didn't want power. No matter what I do, you still don't trust me. Because you're a foreigner. Like your friend. I'm not a foreigner. But to the desert you are. My allegiance is to you. To the Fremen. I'm doing this for all of us. Do you believe me? Man, it's hard to have commentary over these scenes. They're so rich. I'll talk to Stoker. She doesn't answer him. Well, so the whole reason that she allows herself to fall for him is because her entire life is freedom fighting. Her entire life is for her people. So yes, he's cute. And yes, he's charming. And yes, he's interested. And yes, he's sincere. But on top of all of that, we can work together for the thing that matters most to me in my life. Because it matters to him. He is one of the fedaykin, the same as she is. One of the freedom fighters. Yes, that's more than just a chemical compatibility or personality compatibility. That's a compatibility of shared focus, values, and mission. And during their love scene earlier, which we're not going to show here because it's YouTube, even though it's a PG-13 love scene. He promises that he will never leave her. And I think from my read of watching the film, at that moment, he believes it. Because he thinks this is how it's going to go and it's going to go well. And then when he inhales all the spice and he goes under and they have to bring him back, he sees so much more clearly what will happen. It's kind of like Doctor Strange seeing all these different possibilities. And so he sees what he has to do and he does a big pivot. But here, he's talking about it's still the same goal. You know, it's our freedom, it's a revolution, it's liberty, and it's overthrowing our oppressors. But she worries, and justly so, that now that he's got a nuclear arsenal, he's going to be seeking power. Not a lot of us can relate to that specific plot point. Not many of us. But we can relate to starting a journey with somebody and the simple fact is, if you fall in love with somebody, staying together requires not just, I've heard it say, you have to fall in love with them every day and choose them every day. And that's true. But it also means, are we still aligned as we evolve as people? Are we still aligned? And she is sensing that they might not be. And you can see, I love the way Zendaya plays it. I think she's underrated as an actor. She's got the prettiness problem, right? Yeah. She's an extremely talented actor, but she's so pretty that people are like, well, she's pretty. Yeah, and that's why she's there. Watch what she's doing with her eyes in the scene and with her face. She truly hopes that Paul isn't changing, but she can tell that he is. And so when she says, you're a foreigner, she's going back weeks or months. And then she realizes like, oh no, like I can't just retreat. And so when she comes back and she says not to me, that whole thing is a bid for not just connection, but please don't change. Right. Please stay with me because I see you. And unfortunately, that's not the way it goes. Hi. Gandalf and I wanted to tell you about something. Oh, Gandalf. Oh, what a good boy. We're doing a live show. Not Gandalf. Just me and Jonathan. On Saturday, November 16th in Las Vegas, Nevada, Cinema Therapy Live. We're going to be talking about Guardians of the Galaxy and Found Family. And just in time for Thanksgiving, you can maybe learn some coping strategies to deal with your own family. Anyway, me, Jonathan, a live episode, a meet and greet, a Q&A, free popcorn. Click the link in the description if you want to go to a live show with us and meet us and be with us. Be with us. You need to see. This is a vision he's having induced by the spice. Your world has made choices for us. If I go south, I may lose you. You will never lose me, Paul Atreides. Not as long as you stay who you are. But he knows that's the problem. It'll cross storms with you. Go south. Bring your people to safety. And then I will do what must be done. So interesting to watch this scene now knowing what happens later. Yeah. Because he already knows. Yeah. He knows where he's going and has known. Like he's been, I don't know if lying to himself is too strong, but he's been hoping that he can live a simpler life because of the visions. And he knows in his heart, he has to live a more complicated life because there's this big giant galaxy out there. And there are forces that have put him in a position that he has no control over. And my read on it early on in the film, you know, he wants revenge for his father's death. He wants to punish his enemies. He wants to manipulate the non-believers and the believers so he can gain power to do just that. And then he falls for Chani. And then he spends time with Stilgar. And he comes to really love these people. And now he does fight for them because he loves them. But he also knows, like, he wishes he could abandon the whole messianic quest, abandon this whole destiny, and just do it as a freedom fighter with these people who he loves. He doesn't need to lead them. He doesn't want to lead them, but he realizes that he has to. Yeah. He has to go back to an adapted version of the original plan of manipulation, revenge, and gaining power. Well, and that's in order to gain the freedom for the Fremen. Yeah. This is to accomplish the goal that they both share. He sees a way to do it. Yeah. But in order to do that, he has to be not what Chani is in love with. And it's been inside him the whole time. But it's such a complicated... Yeah, I agree. And I'm just watching, you know, when she kisses him, and he closes his eyes to kiss her back as a tear rolls down. You can see he's treasuring this moment because he knows it's going to be different, and it's going to break her heart. Because he loves her, he's going to do all these things because this is the most important thing in the world to her. And he knows also on a romantic level, it's going to break her heart. This is going to doom our relationship probably, but it's also what you want and need. And so, in a really complex and heartbreaking way, it actually is love. Yeah. Because if he wanted just like for her to think very well of him and to think he's great, he would stay with her and do things the old-fashioned way, and they would lose, and her people would die in a massacre. But then at least she'd think he's great, and they could be together if they both survive. And instead, he's going to do... he's going to make the sacrifice of his happiness and hers to give her what she wants the most. And here's where he has to do the thing. And he's already pushed it to the limit, her devotion with the things he's done to get here. This isn't over yet. I want you to know, I will love you as long as I breathe. He said that before, and then stopped breathing, and she brought him back. Yeah. And became the Lisan al-Gaib, the thing she didn't want him to become. Well, he said, I will be with you as long as I breathe the first time, right? That was like, we'll always be together. He stops breathing, and it's like a reset. As long as we're going on technicalities, right? Well, yeah. But he says it again here, which is like, you know, he's renewing his vows. He's renewing his love for her and letting her know before he really, really breaks the hell out of her heart. Watch this, Lise. You can actually pinpoint the second when his heart rips in half. And now. But the difference is important, because the first time, before he had gone under and had these visions and seen with total clarity what he needed to do, he absolutely, when he said, I'll be with you as long as I breathe, like, he wanted to spend his life with her. And now he doesn't say, I will be with you. He says, I will love you. Yeah. And that matters because... As a servant of the Imperium, you will bow at my feet. Your feet! You'll be lucky to keep your head. I'll take the hand of your daughter. She will remain safe. And we will rule together over the Empire. But you... That eye twitch, like... You have to answer for my father. Zendaya's keeping it so internal, but it's so big that it's coming out anyway. That is some freaking masterful acting. To have such a giant emotion, because that's not... It doesn't read to me as she's using tools, right? She's using a bag of tricks to like, this is the emotion I'm showing. What we're getting is she is experiencing this emotion, and it is so powerful that even though she is trying to contain it, it's happening. And that is... She went home at the end of that shoot day with a headache. Yeah. Because that's a lot. Because she has to feel it, and then contain it, and then allow that to show. And do it over, and over, and over again. And over and over again. It's not that they no longer want the same things. It's that they vastly disagree on the road to get there. It's interesting as a viewer, because... And this is where I'm going to do a little movie couples therapy, instead of just observing and commenting. But first of all, as a viewer, I understand why Paul does what he does. Right. I sympathize with it, and it's heartbreaking. And that's the rational level. On the emotional level, I'm like, That bastard. On the emotional level, you're like, Her love for him was so pure, and she didn't really want to give it in the first place. And then she risked it. Yes, I understand all the things that we just said. But on just a sheer emotional gut punch level, it just feels like he threw it away. And this is where couples therapy comes into play. Where if I've got them in my office, she's probably pissed because it really feels like he doesn't care, or he didn't make me a priority, or he is all the things he promised me he never would be. He's a power-seeking, glory-seeking monarch dictator. And he was supposed to fight with us, and be one with us, and never lead us. And now he's stepped into the position of Lisan al-Gaib, which I never believed in, and neither did he. So he's lying to my people. So that he can become emperor, and take over the Imperium. And then marry the emperor's daughter to really spit in my face. Like, I totally understand why you see at the end where she's going to ride the worm. And she's just pissed as hell. Like, I 100% get that. And at the same time, every single thing he's done makes sense to him. And that's where I start in couples therapy, is everyone's behavior makes sense to them. You assume he's just a jerk, and he always has been. And the Paul that you fell in love with was never real. Either never real, or he's dead and gone now. Or he's dead and gone now. Yeah. When the fact is far more complex than that. So two things. Perspective taking, and then just honest assessment. A lot of couples grow together. And the couples who stay together, it's not just because they fell in love once and made a commitment. It's, yes, they choose commitment every day. They choose love every day. But they also find a way to say, we grow and evolve throughout our lifetime. Let's do that together. There are other couples where their love brings them to a certain point, and their roads do this. And then it becomes a question in therapy of, how can we do this in a way that's not destructive? How can we do this in a way that is healing and respectful and supportive for both of us? And honestly, that's where these two are now. And the level of hurt that he has just put her through, no matter his intentions, that's... It's going to be difficult to come back from. Yeah, and it's going to be a lot of therapy. Yeah. This is not just a month or... This is not, I'll see you for a few weeks. There's a lot to work through here. So until next time. As God is my witness, I am the voice from the outer world. I will lead you to paradise. And watch movies. Shout out to our patrons who get stuff that nobody else gets, including a Dune II exclusive episode on Dune and the psychology of fanaticism. 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