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The Advaita Channel Team
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"The thing is I know that I AM, but I cannot describe explain the experience which I know that I AM because before I know anything else, I AM. I need to be, in order to experience anything. You see, so anything I experience comes after my I AM-ness."
(2018 02 09 February Retreat Week1 Day6 with Francis Lucille 5)
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Video Summary
AI Generated
This dialogue explores the nature of identity and consciousness, challenging the belief that a person is defined by their body or mind. Through an investigation of perception, the speaker argues that while the body and mind are transient and perceived, the perceiving entity (consciousness) is the only constant, always-present reality.
So if that's true, that there are no feelings but just bodily sensations, then this I-feeling
that feels more like a belief than it feels so solid as a person, then it's just seeing
Well, if it is perceived, if it has a shape, if it has a form, if it has limits, if it
comes and goes, it is not the real me. It's a perception. The thing is, I know that I
am, but I cannot describe the experience through which I know that I am. Because before I know
anything else, I am. I need to be in order to experience anything, you see. So anything
I experience comes after my I am-ness.
And there's a seeing of that feeling, or the I-thought, or the I-feeling. And there's
more clarity of that which, that it is just a sensation. But the question is still, and
that's what's there now, is so who or what am I? Because I don't know. I can see what's
not clear and more and more.
That's very important. At every moment, you are that. In other words, people think there
is this and there is that. But that's not how it is. You are always this. But when there
is a moment, when there is time, you are that. Meaning this becomes that. When time
stops, you are still this. But there is never a distance between this and that. So when
that is present, it's a mistake to ask the question, where I am? Because the answer is
that you are that already. When that is not present, there is not this. But then there
is no question either. There is only this. The mistake is that we believe that there
can be simultaneously this and that, so that when that is present, we ask, yes, okay, there
is that, but where is this? And the answer is, but you are that, stupido. It was a mix
of English and Spanish, right? Because I said stupido.
And that's why it's always back to the choice, who am I? Which one do I want to focus on?
The bottom line is it does come to a choice of who do I want to be.
But choices are not that important.
Yeah, because you're right.
I'm going to serve up the line, or I'm going to serve out wide. Depends on the, I don't
know, the moment. I'm going to eat pasta or rice. Depends on my fancy. I follow my
enthusiasm. It's a free country, thanks God.
So when you say then that the not knowing, to not know who you are, I'm thinking that
means to not know that I'm a person, a separate...
Investigate your beliefs that you are a separate consciousness. And you see, what is important
is always when we use words to think, that we make sure that we have a clear definition
of the word we use. Sorry about that. If we use the word person, for instance, we have
to be clear, what do I mean by a person? Do I mean a body? Of course there is a body.
Do I mean a mind? Yeah, there seems to be a mind. Do I mean consciousness? Yes, there
is consciousness. But when I say me as a person, which one is it going to be? You see?
So that's important.
That's just a belief, a feeling. So that's why when you say it's just a sensation, then
it's like...
What do you mean by a feeling?
Maybe it's a memory, a thought, a feeling, it says something, an entity.
Yeah, but it's both true and false. Obviously, there is an entity which is hearing these
words. Obviously. That's not a feeling, that's an experience. Consciousness or consciousnessing
is such a direct experience that we cannot put our finger on it. Because of its immediacy,
we are it already. You can put your finger only on some object which is not you. You
cannot put your finger on your own finger. But there is no need for it, it's already
on it. Unless you need to see the orthopedic surgeon to put it back on it. So there is
no doubt. You see, we have to be precise. There is no doubt there is an entity, so that
is not challenged here. You see, this entity, I call it I. Fine. Now the question really...
And there is no doubt there is a body. There are more doubts about the existence of a body
than about the existence of that which perceives the body, right? Because after all, we could
be dreaming right now. And the one who is perceiving the dream is real. Upon waking
up from this dream, it would turn out that the body we were having in the dream has disappeared.
So there is more certainty that there is an entity perceiving that there is a body. But
I grant you there is a body. I grant you there is a mind. So the question is, what is the
interconnection between the three? The entity that perceives, the body and the mind that
are perceived. The body and the mind, they seem to be a very strong couple. They have
been together for some time. There is no divorce on the horizon. It seems that it works. So
I'm not challenging that. So we call them Mr. and Mrs. Body-Mind. Then you have the
entity. The question is, is that a ménage à trois? That's less obvious. So that's the
investigation that we have to do. What is the connection between the entity that perceives
and Mr. and Mrs. Body-Mind? For instance, are they always present? Are they always present,
the three, the trio? Or is there one who is always present and the other ones come and
go?
The entity consciousness is always present.
So the question then becomes, if I had to make the determination, which one is the most
real? One that comes and goes, or one which is always present?
So the investigation seems to be the question.
Because that's all I have. If I have a determination to make, I have to look at what kind of evidence
I have at my disposal to look at. I cannot manufacture any evidence to try to win my
case. I have to be very, very humble and look at the facts. And if I have to make the
determination of relative reality solely based on the facts, which one seems to be the most
real?
Let's put it this way. Let's assume I am a physicist and I have to verify or falsify
three theories. Theory A, I call it Mr. Body. Theory B, Mrs. Mind. Theory C, the Perceiver.
But I have three theories. Now, I conduct experiments. The first theory, sometimes it's
verified by the experiment, sometimes it's not. In other words, in the whole of truth,
sometimes it's present, sometimes it's not. Theory B, same thing. Sometimes it's verified,
sometimes not. In the whole of truth, sometimes it's present, sometimes not. Theory C, every
time I try to verify it, the experiment verifies it.
Of course, it's an analogy. I'm not proving anything. I'm not that stupid. I'm not trying
to. It's just an analogy. It's just a way to look again. Because we have been conditioned
into believing that Mr. Body was the real theory, was a reality. Mr. Mind, much less.
And then Mr. Consciousness, the entity, even less.
But what kind of experience, of experiments, can enable us to see through that, if any?
So at least, after all this talk, we should read the conclusion. There is no way I can
know which one is real. That's already something. That's already important. If my words have
at least enabled you to reach this conclusion already, the work is done. You just have to
now, now that you have reached this conclusion, allow for it to solidify, and then to trust
it in your life. If my words have taken you even beyond that, it's even better. In other
words, to say, oh yes, one is real, the other one is less real.
So, going back to the point I was making, it's not that there is no entity. There is
an entity, but not the one we thought.