Movie Couple Therapy: LA LA LAND

This is what love is. I got a call back. What? It's wanting the happiness of the other person. I'm always gonna love you. This is a love story about love that changes form but is still love. I'm always gonna love you too. Sometimes when what you want out of life is compatible and what you want out of a relationship is compatible, that means you continue on the journey together. I mean, I'm finally in something that people enjoy. Since when do you care about being right? Where are we? I don't know. And sometimes it means I'm always gonna love you. Welcome to Cinema Therapy. I'm Jonathan Decker, licensed therapist who loves movies. This is... Alan Seawright, a professional filmmaker who needs therapy. Boy, we've said that a lot of times. Yes, we have. And we're gonna keep saying it until we die. We're gonna be talking... Today we're gonna be doing movie couples therapy. What movie couple will we talk about? La La Land. Sebastian and Mia. The greatest couple ever to appear on the silver screen. Definitely up there when it comes to chemistry. Ryan Gosling and Emma Stone are two of the best. They're so good at that. I want five more movies with them. So for movie couples therapy, you would think the object is how can we help these crazy kids stay together? Because controversially, spoiler alert, they don't. And a lot of people had problems with that. I have another take on it. Is it that those people are dumb and this was a perfect film and they shouldn't have ended up together? Because the movie isn't actually about them realizing their dreams together. It's about them realizing the Hollywood dream. And that's what the whole movie is. No, that's not my take. But I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it. You did already. My take on it is that there is a dance between self-actualization and romantic love. And how do you navigate those two core needs? You do it by making an homage to an old Hollywood musical. I hear what you're saying, but I don't think you're saying what you mean. I don't think you hear what I'm saying. You're fired. That's what you're saying, but it's not what you mean. What you mean is... You're fired. Play the set list. No, I'm saying it's too late. It's a warning. Where are you from? Don't fire me. I'm sorry, Seth. Yeah, I see the decorations. Good luck in the new year. J.K. Simmons is a 2G. He's so good. He's so, so good. And Ryan Gosling plays like a weirdly dejected slight loser so well. I just heard you play and I wanted... That was a big joke with sound design. Because there's no way he hit her with the force of a freight train, but it sure sounded like he did. Okay, so this is the best worst meet cute in the history of movies. It's so good. Coupled with when they first meet on the highway, she flips him off. Right? And now she wanders into this club and sees him doing what he's been fired before for doing, which is going off script, going off book, not playing the set list because he doesn't want to just sit here and go jingle bells. He wants to play what's in his heart and he wants to do jazz and jazz improvisation. And he does it and he loses himself in the moment and then he gets fired again. You like jazz? You're fired. He gains an Emma Stone. He could have. And then he did that jerk move. But what we learn about Sebastian in this scene right out of the gate is that he needs to follow his inner passion. Yeah. It is crucial to him to find any sense of happiness in his life, to not be pigeonholed by what other people want him to do and instead to follow what he's got inside, which is jazz, baby. Do you think a couple's therapist could have helped Sebastian and Mia to have a better relationship? Definitely. I mean, I don't know that it would have meant they end up together. That would have been narratively unfulfilling. But it definitely could have helped them to navigate some of their conflicts in a healthier way. Therapy for the win. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Over four million people have used BetterHelp to start living a healthier, happier life. To get started, click the link below or go to betterhelp.com forward slash cinematherapy and fill out the questionnaire to assess your own personal specific needs, desires, wants and Hollywood dreams. BetterHelp connects you with a licensed therapist who is trained to listen and give you helpful, unbiased advice. You'll get matched with a therapist in most cases in 48 hours or less. And they're committed to helping you find a therapist who's a good fit for you. Like if you need a new pianist at your restaurant. That doesn't apply. Oh, BetterHelp has a network of over 30,000 therapists with a wide range of expertise. So you can easily switch to a new therapist at no additional cost if the one that you're first matched with is not a good fit. You can even choose a time that's convenient for you for your therapy sessions. And you can also choose how you want to do your therapy sessions. Name me the ways. A phone call. Uh-huh. What else? A video chat. Those are great. And even via messaging. Wow, typing? Whatever's the most comfortable for you. How about a therapy musical number? Only if we get a closed day on the i5. Well, I guess with over 30,000 therapists, a few of them can sing like me. Anyway, so if you think that you might benefit from therapy, click the link or go to betterhelp.com forward slash cinematherapy. You'll get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp, so you can connect with a therapist and see if it helps you. Betterhelp.com is where you go. So she trolled him pretty good. All right, I remember you. And I'll admit I was a little curt that night. Curt? Okay, I was an ass. I can admit that. Okay. But requesting I ran from a serious musician is just, it's too far. My lord. Did you just say a serious musician? He's in a jumpsuit. I don't think so. Playing a serious firefighter. So you're an actress. I thought you looked familiar. Have I seen you in anything? Coffee shop on the Warner Brothers lot. That's a classic. Oh, I see. Yeah. You're a barista. And I can see how you could then look down on me from all the way up there. I'm deaf. Next set. He doesn't, I don't, he doesn't tell me what to do. He just told you what to do. I know. I let him. What's your name? Mia. I guess I'll see you in the movies. He's such a loser. Somehow, Ryan Gosling, gorgeous, genius person. Incredibly talented, incredibly charming, incredibly intelligent, incredibly handsome. There's no way he should pull off Moby Loser. Moby, and he does it so well. It's depressing. Not really accountability. I admit that I was a little Kurt that night. Okay. I was an ass. I'm a movie buff. I'm not involved in the filmmaking process, but I know stunning wardrobe when I see it. Not necessarily the jumpsuit, but her dresses. Well, and the jumpsuit like tells you. The jumpsuit is stunning. So there's a whole color story that's going on in this movie. Yeah. So she starts wearing black and white. He starts wearing brown and white. They're very muted colors. At the beginning of the film. All through their relationship, the colors pop. They're vibrant. It's telling the story of their relationship. And like, this is what's happening. And it's bright and colorful and wonderful. It's new and it's great. And then as things start to deteriorate, colors get more and more muted. And then when you get to the end, she's back in black and he's back in brown and white. It's a whole journey through wardrobe and color. It's a whole journey. I don't have a lot of couples therapy notes other than he was a jerk in the first scene. She was a jerk in the scene before when she flipped him off. They're both wrapped up in their Hollywood dreams. Him for music, her for movies. And they're both moody and angry and hurting because those dreams aren't happening. And so what they're not really realizing is it's spreading outward. And for whatever reason, it spreads outward onto each other. And he kind of takes accountability here. She never really does. No, not in that way. But in this scene, he was so rude to her in the scene before that he kind of deserved what she did. They keep running into each other. There's the party. There's this great walk at sunset. They sing and they dance together, but it's not an actual date. And they basically sing an entire song about how not into each other they are with him sliding in little lines about, but you are into me, right? But now that we're being serious. And he comes to visit her, you know, and they have this little walk and talk on the set. I love that she works at a coffee shop on the Warner Brothers Live. Yeah, super cool. Should have been a lawyer. Because the world needs more lawyers. It doesn't need more actresses. You're not just an actress. What do you mean, just an actress? You said it yourself. You're a child prodigy playwright. That is not what I said. Well, you're too modest to say it, but it's true. So you could just write your own roles, you know, write something that's as interesting as you are. And you don't have to audition for this. Yeah. Look at Louis Armstrong. He could have just played the marching band charts that he was given. But he didn't do that. What did he do? Well, he made history, didn't he? Well, I'm going to stop auditioning and I'm going to make history instead. Well, my work is done here. I should probably tell you something now to get it out of the way. I hate jazz. What do you mean you hate jazz? It just means that when I listen to it, I don't like it. What are you doing right now? Nothing. He takes her to a jazz club. So she hates auditioning. I relate because in college, I did some acting stage comedy, made movies with you. After college, I'm like, maybe I want to do some real acting. Signed up with a talent agency, did one audition, was so soul crushed by it that I said, this is for the birds. No, I'm not going to do this. Lady, why you be tripping like that? No, Jamal, you be tripping. I have so much respect for people who do pursue acting as their passion, because this film captures just how hard it is to be judged within seconds of walking in, for people not even to give you a chance, right? And how it's just breaking her spirit, because she's got this light inside of her where she wants to not just perform, but as you've talked about so many times, acting is exposing yourself. It's exposing your soul. It's exposing who you are. It's feeling publicly. Yes. Because people say acting is just pretending, and it's not. It's accessing something very real, and then laying it vulnerable before the world. And that's what she wants to do, because it's meant so much to her to go to the movies, to go to the plays, and she wants to share that with the world. And what matters to him is the jazz. And he invites her to the club, and she sees it through his eyes, right? And what they bring is they have completely different passions, but they're revitalized by each other's passion. And, you know, as things start to unravel, their support for each other is still one of the healthiest things. It doesn't change at all. In fact, it's at the center of their big fight. Big argument. Yeah. Well, whatever, right? I mean, it's time to grow up, you know? I have a steady job. This is what I'm doing. And now, all of a sudden, if you had these problems, I wish you would have said them earlier before I signed on the goddamn dotted line. I'm pointing out that you had a dream that you followed, that you were sticking to. This is the dream. This is not your dream. Guys like me work their whole lives to be in something that's successful, that people like, you know? I mean, I'm finally in something that people enjoy. Since when do you care about being liked? Why do you care so much about being liked? You're an actress. What are you talking about? Such a well-written scene, and they're flawless in it. Maybe you just liked me when I was on my ass, because it made you feel better about yourself. Oof, that one hit. Are you kidding? No. Let me break down what's going on here. Yeah, because I have theories, but I don't have an education. He's been on the road. Long-distance relationship now. She misses him. And it feels like, when you're watching the movie, that this is a typical guy goes on the road, girls are going crazy for him, and he forgets the woman back home because of his ego and everything. And no. Not at all what's happening. Plot twist. She comes home, and he's there, and he's prepared a candlelight dinner, and he's missed her. And they're excited to be back together, and they're excited to see each other. And he couldn't care less about the girls on the road. He's just happy to be there with her. And they're having a pleasant conversation, but she pushes back just a little bit, because she's concerned about his happiness. She's not calling him a sellout. She's not telling him she's disappointed in him. He's afraid that he's sold out. Yes. And he's disappointed in himself. And so he's projecting that onto what she's saying, because she is merely lovingly expressing concern for his well-being and happiness, because he's doing something that he had expressed to her before was the last thing he wanted to do in this world. Right. And because of the choices he's made, and frankly, a lack of maturity on his part at this point in his journey, he's not willing to sit with, oh crap, did I just sign the dotted line for years of my life for this without checking to see if it's what I really wanted, or if it was what was the best thing for my relationship. And because of the self-blame, he's not willing to sit with that. And I think a lot of this is subconscious. I think a lot of defensive mechanisms kick in, right? Yeah. And he puts it back onto her, and then he starts getting mean. It's a testament to him as an actor, and the work the film has done up till now to show you the amount of pain and self-doubt that he carries inside of him, that we don't just hate his guts right now. But it's like watching a loved one do something that you know they're going to regret, and you want them to stop before it's too late and it's just going. So if they were in my office and this conversation were happening... Yeah, what would that look like? I would have paused him, holding up a mirror of, hang on, from what I'm seeing, I don't feel like she's attacking you. I don't feel like she's calling you a sellout. I don't think she's telling you that you're a failure or a disappointment. I do wonder from how strong you're reacting, she hit a nerve, and I want to know what that nerve is. Can you sit with that for a minute and tell me, one, do you think I'm right? And two, if so, what the nerve is? And if not, then where is the strong reaction coming from? And then just give him a minute. That's what I would do. Here's what I love about what happens next. After he misses her play, which almost no one comes to, that she worked... It's a one-woman play that she worked so hard and put her whole heart and soul into. He misses it. She's devastated. She's devastated that almost nobody came and that the people who came didn't seem that impressed, and he wasn't there, and she's just done. Done with this town, and she's going to go home to her parents. But she gets a callback for an audition, and here's what I love. He drives out there, honks the horn, like he always does, and he convinces her, a little bit by being a dick, but he convinces her to take the audition, even though she's too hurt. She doesn't want to do any more auditions. But what I love about it is he knows I can probably never win her back. He is not there to win her back. And then after the audition, we have what is, in my mind, the most beautiful breakup scene in the history of movies. Where are we? On Mulholland. Oh, sorry. Where are we? I don't know. What do we do? I don't think we can do anything. Because when you get this... If I get this. When you get this, you got to give it everything you got. Everything. It's your dream. What are you going to do? I got to follow my own plan, you know? Stay here, get my own thing going. I'm going to be in Paris. Good jazz there. And you love jazz, then. Right? Yes. Okay, that's all I needed out of this relationship. I guess we're just going to have to wait and see. I'm always going to love you. I'm always going to love you, too. This is why the movie is so genius to me. In a classic Hollywood film, or even in a modern Hollywood rom-com, there's some fight, there's some misunderstanding. Someone's awful to somebody else. There's a grand romantic gesture. And they're back together. All is forgiven and everything is perfect. Right. They're working on forgiveness. Yeah. But the acknowledgement of, I'm always going to love you, number one. Number two is, this movie works on a couple levels. There's the clinical level and the artistic level. You say it's a love story, but the love story is to Hollywood. Correct. And I don't disagree. But I think there's another level, which is, this is a love story about love that changes form, but it's still love. Yes. Not just because of their big fight. I think we're used to seeing breakups end in big fights like that one. Yeah. But to just say, I'm always going to love you. And it's because I love you that I'm stepping aside, because when you get this, you have to give it everything you've got. Yeah. You will never forgive yourself if you limit what you are capable of so that you can stay with me or be with me. Yeah. You need to go fly. So he's stepping aside because he loves her and he wants her to go after it. She could say to him, well, why don't you come with me to Paris? Right? Yeah. But he knows that LA is where his heart is and it's where he wants to do his work. Yeah. And it's because she loves him that she's not pushing him, you know? See, this is what love is. It's respect. And it's wanting the happiness of the other person. And sometimes when what you want out of life is compatible and what you want out of a relationship is compatible, that means you continue on the journey together. And sometimes it means I'm always going to love you and I want what you want for you. Yeah. Right? We don't hear that message enough. No, we really don't. There's nothing less dramatically satisfying about this than there is about a big fight, breakup, and then a get back together and it's all happiness and romance. Oh. This is just as satisfying as that. But it's such a gutsy ending because here at five years later, she's a famous Hollywood actress and she is married to somebody else. And I remember being in the theater and people were like, No, there's groaning. And then the really weird thing happens. She's happy with this other guy. And he's a good dude. And it wasn't a mistake. And then they end up in Sebastian's jazz club. No, and he sees her. And this is a song from earlier. This movie does such brilliant things just with lighting. Very stagey. Very theatrical, right? Very stagey and theatrical. Again, classic Hollywood. They were all coming from vaudeville. Yeah. But it was all stagey and theatrical. And then we're going to do this kind of thing. But where they're the only two people in the room. Because he's just playing it for her. Yeah. And now, what up Christopher Nolan? It's non-linear. Or at least it seems like it. We're going to redo our entire romance, but we're going to do it right this time. I just heard you play and I want to... ...into here with this fantasy. In his head, in her head, is it gives you the classic style Hollywood ending. Yep. Right? Where they end up together. Where the grumpy... We launch into this montage of what if they had made different choices, right? And had this ideal life. And everyone had come to her play. And he had said no to John Legend. And he was going to go right into doing his dream. And everything had gone just the way we wanted it to. And they entertain that fantasy. Musically, it's ingenious because it's reprising all of the major themes. Yeah. It's reprising in dance everything that happened in the film. And then, you know, in addition to all the storytelling, you know, just builds and builds and builds. And it's like this ecstatic swelling of, like, all the emotion and everything that could possibly happen. And it builds up to... What if our happily ever after had been together? And I understand why audiences were mad. Why they're like, well, these two have such electric chemistry. And because we didn't spend time with her and the guy who ends up being her husband, right? So people emotionally want it to be them. Right. But speaking true to life, she needed to pursue this. And he needed this. Because when they walk into this club, he did it. Jazz was dying. And now people are seeing... And the place is packed. Yeah. And it's because of his passion for it. She was right. And he's doing the exact thing that brings him fulfillment. And here's what I love about this ending. I grew up believing that romantic love was the end-all be-all of life experience. And it was worth sacrificing everything to achieve it. And I'm in a different place in life now where I see love differently. And I still value romantic love. I still value marriage. And frankly, so does the film. She's happily married to this guy. But love is a balance between love for self and love for others. And what they gave each other... And you see it in this look. At the beginning of the film, she didn't love herself or have confidence in herself and vice versa. Yep. And they helped each other get to a place they never would have gotten without each other. And what I love about the look here... The love changed form. Right? They're not a couple anymore. But they matter so much to each other in each other's lives. Yep. Freaking masterpiece! Made in Hollywood, you think? Made in and about Hollywood. Gosh dang it. The whole notion that we have in our heads the way we think our lives are going to go, we have in our heads how we think our relationships are going to go. And almost all of us have a different experience than what we had up here. And yet it's still life. And it's still love. And it's still beautiful. Some relationships last and they go the distance. Yep. And they last your whole lifetime. And some relationships it's like we're going to go in different directions now. But that doesn't mean that the love has to be lost. And it doesn't mean it has to be ugly or nasty. And it doesn't mean that it was meaningless. Yeah. If you spent five years with someone and you learned and you grew and you changed and it ends, you didn't waste those five years. No. No, not by a long shot. They ended on this beautiful place of I'm always going to love you even if we can't be together, right? And it's easier to say that about those types of breakups. What about the breakups that are ugly, right? They still taught you. And some of you are watching like, no, that set me back. That relationship set me back and pounded me into the dirt. And maybe, maybe that's true. But the wisdom and the empathy and the compassion will serve you in your life and will serve the people that you connect with in an incredible way. Yeah. Life has a way of doing that. So final verdict. Movie couples therapy. Oh, well. Would you help this couple or did they nail it? I think they made the right decision for them, honestly. In couples therapy, all I would do in this process is give them permission to explore all their options without judgment, right? If you stay together and that means sacrificing your dream or changing your dream, that's not wrong. If you say we can't be together because we're going to pursue this, that doesn't make you a shallow, selfish person, right? It just comes down to being honest with each other and exploring that without judgment and figuring out what it is that you really want. And if what you actually want is compatible with one another, or if not, that you can part with love and respect and well wishes for each other. And that's also fine. That's also beautiful. So until next time, did you just call yourself a serious filmmaker? I don't think I said that. And watch movies. We want to thank our patrons who get all sorts of exclusive bonus content, deep dives, making ofs, outtakes, sketch comedy, short films, all sorts of stuff that's coming up. So much stuff. Folks like... Melissa Stewart. Conor Broaders, Conor. It's Conor if there's one N, right? BD, just that, but I'm going to assume it's BD Wong. Hey, BD Wong. Natalie Kelly. And Molly Justin. All right. We love you. Thank you for supporting us. Even you, Molly Justin, who has a first name for a last name and a first name for also a first name.