Interview With ＂The Smashing Machine＂ Star Dwayne Johnson

Hello, Dwayne Johnson. It is an honor and a privilege to have you here on the show. It's the first time that I'm meeting you. And for anyone that's watching that has known me since I was five years old, I've been a massive fan of yours. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Yeah, it's really incredible to see your career go from WWE to Hollywood. And now entering into what I would like to imagine is now another turning point in your career where you're taking on some different type of roles. And one of them here is The Smashing Machine with Benny Safdie. Did you approach it that way? Like, take me back to, like, pre-COVID, pre-strikes. Where were you at mentally in terms of your career, and why was this story of Marker where you wanted to go at that point? Yeah, it's a great question. And thank you for asking it, and thanks for opening up with that one, because I think it helps to go back to where it all kind of started and where this started. And where it started was, well, this little voice behind my ribcage that was just kind of saying, hey, there's more. And, you know, I've done pretty good over the years of really trying my best, at least, to listen to that little voice. By the way, we all have that little voice. Sometimes it whispers to us. Sometimes it's, like, beating on our chest. I'm like, hey, make this change. And the change I was looking for was the challenge. I really wanted to challenge myself in a way that was not only an evolved challenge, but in a way that was a consistent challenge. And I had missed that. I had missed, and I know this sounds crazy, but I missed being uncomfortable. And the roles that I was playing, you know, the bigger roles that I've been saying, like Jumanji or Moana, those are big and they're fun. They're hard work. And a lot of people like them. And I like making them. Those are fun movies to make. But they don't make me uncomfortable. And I missed that. And I had not been uncomfortable in a long time. And I wanted to be uncomfortable. And I wanted to put myself in a position where I was doing things that I had not done before in terms of acting, in terms of transformation, physical transformation, vocal transformation, emotional transformation, inhabiting another human being's skin and what that is like. And then on top of all that, you know, exploring pain and trauma of the past where I'd otherwise suppressed that ---- down like a lot of men do. It's not healthy, but I've done it and I'm guilty of it still. But now I have a place to put it and to explore it. And so I hadn't in the past. And I realized back pre-COVID in 2019, I had this little voice that was saying, hey, there's more. What is there? What is the next challenge? And I watched Uncut Gems. And at the same time I watched Uncut Gems, I had this material of this documentary that we had just required the rights to. And I went to Benny and he really responded to the material and he wanted to make the film. Immediately, I think, Matt, within 24 hours, he said, I feel like I know how to make this movie. And I feel like I know how to make the temperament and the tone and the emotion of this movie. And he said, and I also feel like I can do what you are looking for, which is to challenge both of us in ways that we have not been challenged. And so here we are, years later. That's the reminder and realization is how long it takes to make films. Right. Well, there are some aspects of playing Mark Curve that also draw upon your experience, whether it was in WWE or doing your stunts in Hollywood. I'm curious to know when it comes to a contact sport such as MMA. Obviously, in WWE, you don't want to hurt anybody on a Hollywood set. You don't want to hurt anybody. So how do you take those instincts and apply them in a film such as this, where you want it to be as real as humanly possible without hurting anybody? Great question. And in this case, you got to take the hits. You just got to take the hits. Oh, so you got hit for real. I got concussed. Yes. But it's okay. And not to say, I don't mean it like, hey, I'm a tough guy. I guess I'm not. But let me give you and the viewers just some context to that. So very early, there were a couple of phrases that Benny anchored in, one of which for Emily and I was winning becomes the enemy. The other phrase was as real as it gets. How can we make things as real as it gets in terms of the fights, not only the fights in the ring and in the cage, but also more intensely the fights at home, the domestic fights with Emily and I. So in the ring, yes, you're right. I have this built-in ring generalship, what I like to call it, is I could get in a wrestling ring, and if you and I were in a ring, I would know how many steps it would take for you and I to reach the ropes, to reach the turnbuckles, where I needed to space things out, where our bodies are going to connect again. If I suplex you, I know where to place you in a ring, where it's not the hardest part of the ring. So I was able to go into our choreography for Smashing Machine with this knowledge. Now, what Benny had shared with me early, he said, I would like to not cut away, meaning I'd like to not use a stunt double, meaning I'm going to get rocked. Yeah. But also what's important here, the integrity behind Benny's ambition here wasn't, hey, I just want you to get rocked on camera, DJ. Fans are going to really appreciate it. You're going to commit. Of course I'm going to commit. But the reason why he wanted to do that was, for example, and some fight fans know this, the Fujita fight in Japan at the end of Smashing Machine is a real fight that exists. You can watch it on YouTube. Mark Kerr in that moment, whether it was he was body was numb, he was just out of rehab, who knows? He was on all fours and he was getting rocked. He was getting his ass kicked. But Mark was, he was still with it. He wasn't defending and he wasn't knocked out. He was just taking the blows to the head. And when I talked to Mark afterwards, I was like, Mark, it was the most surreal thing you see, because you don't see fighters just on all fours casually and calmly. The camera was in his face, the real camera in the documentary. You don't see fighters just casually, calmly taking rocks to the head. And I said, what happened? Why were you numb? And I was very blunt with him. I said, were you numb from the drugs? Why didn't you quit tap? And he said, DJ, you know, I just got 40,000 people in Japan and they're there and I can't feel, I can't move my arms. He literally said, I could not move my arms. And he said, and I'm not going to quit. And I would rather take these hits until he knocks me out. I mean, that's a whole other conceit of a psychology that I'm not familiar with, that's hard to comprehend. But that's why you see these fight scenes. And that's why there is no cutting away. And that's why I'm getting rocked in the movie, because Benny wanted to make it as real as it gets. And plus, we also had to uphold the integrity of what really happened in the fight. Yeah. Well, speaking of, there's one particular scene between you and Emily where you have to tackle her down to the ground in a very tense, heated exchange. And when I watched that happen, I was like, oh, wow, that's really Dwayne and Emily going down to the ground together. And I was thinking, Emily must have so much trust in Dwayne to know a man twice my size, maybe more, he's not going to hurt me. I got this. And I just would love to hear a bit from you about that working relationship with her and that trust that's been built up over these years. Well, you just said it, it's trust. And thank God, because when you go to those intense places that we went to in those fight scenes with her and I, it just helps, man, that she's one of your best friends. Yeah. And you trust her, respect her, there's love. She likes to say that she actually, she laughs at it because she actually didn't feel a thing as we were going down. Because, you know, that house that we built, that Benny built, that's a real house, real marble, non-immovable walls, running water. And the reason why Benny built that house like that was so he could hide all the cameras. So we never saw a camera. And your traditional lighting setup was in the ceiling, it was on the floor. And so by the time we got to that bathroom scene, after she pulls the gun, and we go down to the floor, not cutting away, down to the floor on that hard-ass marble, it was my job to protect her. Now, I will say this to you. Benny said to us, you know, you guys are going to take this scene where you're going to take it. You know, keep in mind, we're just coming off of her attempting to take her life. And by the way, in real life, in real life, she pulled the trigger, and luckily, Mark kept bullets in another safe. Wow. She didn't know that. So imagine now going into that next scene with all that emotionality. Benny said, you guys are going to take this scene where you take it. If you can, I would love for you to end up on the floor, holding her. Yeah. And of course we said, okay. But I asked Benny, I said, can I ask you just, we'll do our best to get on the floor? I said, but I'm just curious as to why you would want it on the floor. He said, the truth is, I've been in that situation before where I'm holding someone, and the last place they want to be is in your arms, and you're trying to hold them from harming themselves. And we wound up on the floor. And I went, you got it. And then that's where we wound up is on the floor. Yeah. So going back to Scorpion King 2001, I'm 11 years old. I'm heartbroken that I'm not seeing you in wrestling as much, but I'm seeing you in a different light. The whole world is seeing you in a different light. All this experience, all these years later, we're talking 24 years at this point, maybe slightly more, 25, let's say. You're having new experiences that you haven't had before. You were just at the Governor's Awards last night. You were at the Venice Film Festival where this film premiered. You've gotten the best reviews of your career for this role. How does it feel to still know that there are humbling experiences ahead of you? As a guy who is one of the most recognizable faces in the world, and has conquered every path that there is to conquer in this business? Oh, there's so much more, though. Yeah. There's so much more to... God, I wouldn't say conquer, Matt. I would say so much more to experience. And it's the greatest feeling in the world. It really is. Because I've had this amazing career. I work hard, but I believe in luck, and I believe that luck and hard work and intention and universe kind of all comes together. I believe in that. But it has been the greatest feeling in the world because I was looking for the challenge, and I was looking to challenge myself, and I was looking to grow. I was looking to... The kind of challenge I was looking for wasn't, hey, I want to do an arthouse drama, find an auteur director, and I want to go to A24 to do it because this kind of material is important to them. It wasn't that. It was deeper than that. It was, I just want to take my chest and ******* rip it open. And I know that sounds crazy, but it's like, that's what I want to do. What's the work that I can do that can change my guts? And not only that, but also, hopefully, if I love it, if I love the experience, not if a billion people see it, just if I love the experience, then Lord, God, universe, let this be the beginning of something. And so that's why I tell you, man, it's the greatest feeling in the world. And last night at the Governor's Ball was awesome, and I met folks that I admired for 20-plus years. Watch your feet. I'm going to throw a name out, like Tom Cruise. Five, ten minutes of just chopping it up and talking about our love for movies and Emily and Spielberg and just an amazing room. And so this has all been, it's been the best. Yeah. So then, easy thing to wrap up with here. Is this a one-off, or will there be more challenges ahead for you? No, let me go back. It's a great question to end on, because let me go back to what I was saying was, okay, what's my experience, and did I like this? Because I'm doing it solely for me, for an audience of one. And if you think about it, Matt, like for years, Scorpion King, by the way, that kicked off my career. Had Brendan Fraser not said yes to Me and the Mummy Returns, because it was his franchise, and he was one of the biggest stars in the world at that time, and the Mummy franchise was so successful, he had not said yes to that cameo, things would be different. So the reason why I bring that up is because I always want to give him flowers, even though he never accepts them. But now, as life comes full circle, 20-plus years later, it's like now I really enjoy working audience for one, what is my experience in this, and did I love it? And I loved it. I loved the challenge of it. I loved the physical transformation, vocal, all these things that are great challenges. Oh, and that made me uncomfortable. And that's a thing that I haven't been in a long time, which was uncomfortable, and I missed that. So is it a one-off? No. I think when you set your intentions on something, and you say, hey, I want to do this thing now, and I want to go down this path, then the world opens up, and we're developing now with Martin Scorsese this film about the Godfather of Hawaii, the real Godfather of Hawaii, which I'm so excited about. I got this awesome project with Darren Aronofsky I can't wait to do with A24 again. So it's projects like that that get me really, really excited to continue to work on and to continue to challenge myself. But by the way, also the big ones, we just started Jumanji last week, which was fun to kick off again, and that's going to be a lot of fun. But man, no, I feel like this time in my career and in my life is such an exciting time because I realized about three or four years ago, which was the thing I started to listen to this little voice that I had behind my rib cage, and it was, okay, I feel like I've had this career, I'm really fortunate and lucky, and maybe I'm at this apex. Now what do we do? What's next, I started asking myself, and what is it going to be? Well, let's just stay up here and enjoy the view, or let's ride off into the sunset, or go back down the mountain. And then I thought, you know, I know what I want to do. Let's go make more mountains. Let's go make new mountains, and let's challenge myself, and let's do it for me. And then let's also bring and lift some people up too as well. I like that, new mountain. I can't think of a better note to end on than that. Dwayne, I know you're an insanely busy guy. Thank you so much for your time here. Oh, it's lovely to do it, man. These are great questions. Man, like I said, childhood dream right here, just speaking with you, so thank you. Thanks, brother. We'll do it again. I appreciate it. All right, take care. Yeah, talk soon. Bye-bye.