This Indie Watch Is More Complex Than a Patek Philippe

Today we are in a very beautiful place here in Neuchâtel. I'm visiting Sylvain Bernerand. Sylvain, it's good to see you. Thank you. And thank you for having us. Thank you very much. Two years ago, we were discussing this morning, you gave me the favor to come in your studio to shoot the Mirage, which we launched two years ago. We received a more than great reception. The watch is fully allocated now. And now we are two years later and we are happy to return the favor. So we are in our headquarter now in Neuchâtel to present you the Cartier. Awesome. Thank you so much for having us. And yeah, like we said, it's two years ago on the exact same date. Never happened before. So next video, you know when it's coming out? In two years, June 23rd. So tell us, where are we today? Because this was in development for quite a while now. Yes, correct. So I started this company from my apartment, like every startup should be. As we speak, we run a facility of 700 square meters with 14 people in the company. And we cover a scope from technical office design, which we're going to show the different steps for the Cartier, clienteling, communication. And we have the atelier with the logistics, the stocks, the quality control and the assembly. And then we ship everything to our collectors directly from this headquarter. Awesome. It's a very cool space. You kept it very artsy and minimal. We spoke about this as well. I would just fill up the place with a bunch of stuff probably. Art on the walls, unfinished walls on purpose. Yeah, correct. Look very cool, which was probably not easy to pull through. And also it looks artistic, but also it's very advanced, right? You made sure that the watchmakers have the air flow as it should be, correct? Correct. Yes. We try to ensure that everybody here has the best possible working conditions. So it goes from the bench, the tools, the check of the quality of the air. As you said, we invested on that in the facility. Same goes for the lighting that you can adjust. I think a lot can be done around the bench of the watchmaker to ensure quality, like no shaking flow, no dust, no brush light in your eyes, etc. And this makes a huge difference in the long run, in terms of the pleasure that the guy has to work at his bench every day and the quality output that he can perform on the long run. Yeah, for sure. You're right. And the production is not here, just the assembly, the quality control and the whole shipping out to the client. Correct. Being in Neuchâtel, for the people in foreign countries watching, we are in Neuchâtel, so it's in the center of the watchmaking region. So for us, we have a radius of 50 kilometers around here, every possible supplier that we can dream of. So we use what we call the établissage method, which means we create the part, we make the technical plans and we collaborate with a handmaker, a dialmaker, a pinion, axle, jewels, etc. And we order components to our specifications, we quality check everything and then we assemble here. Which is, historically speaking, the most practiced method and how actually the watchmaking industry appeared in Switzerland a few centuries ago. Yeah, it makes sense. Because to learn all the crafts, you need to make a watch from zero to a finished product. You need a lifetime. It's two different routes. Like you see, for example, our common friend, Recep, he decides to learn everything from the get-go and he's willing to suffer all the steps to go up. In my case, I want to venture into very different things and then we can show here how different the Cantier is to the Mirage. And therefore, I'm happy to rely on the existing savoir-faire and experience of companies that are most often family-owned businesses that I've been doing. For example, I work with Serret in La Chaux-de-Fonds. They've been making complicated cases for three generations. You can't beat these guys. Same goes for the hands, the jewels, the pinions, etc. To my knowledge, we are the only brand who has never produced a brass movement. I say always to my knowledge because in watchmaking, you can never... There's always this one guy who did it somewhere. But we make only 18-karat gold movements that includes the base plate, the bridges. The only thing not in gold are the components which for mechanical reasons need to be in steel because they need to be harder and thinner, etc. We choose gold for three reasons. First, anti-magnetic. It doesn't make the watch anti-magnetic by nature, but it protects it rather better than brass. The stable value of the material. I think using precious metal, especially in the society that we live in, is not necessarily a bad thing. Third, gold offers by nature a level of luster and quality of finishing that you cannot compete with. I think that's the reason why goldsmiths use gold for centuries to make jewelry. It's because polished gold, grenier gold, all the traits here, the level of reflections and depth you get into it is unbeatable, to my opinion, at least. And so far, you've used yellow gold? Yes, and white. White gold, yeah. And with the quantium platinum. Correct. So far, the goal is to have one precious metal per collection. So the Mirage is gold case, gold dial, gold hands. It's a dress watch. It's full gold. The quantium is a more traditional, more formal collection. Therefore, we decided to use platinum. So the quantium is only available in platinum cases, although all the internal is still gold. So the dial, the hands, and the movement are in 18 karat gold. We use exclusively precious metal to make the structural parts of a watch. What's some of the materials you would love to do in the future? So I'm particularly interested in two precious metals. So you could consider titanium. You could consider silver. You have tantalum. You have these are other materials that, in my opinion, could be interesting if used in a clever scenario or in an interesting way. The Mirage and the Quantium Annual couldn't be further away from each other in terms of how they look, how they feel, how complex they are. Even I, knowing you for a bit before you launched the Mirage, I couldn't believe the difference and I didn't understand it at all. So I want to take the chance today to go through the watch with you, the complications, the components, what was difficult, what was very easy, which I assume was none of it. So my goal is to build a sustainable brand. For that, I have the ambition to build five different collections. And in this case, after having a good start with the Mirage, the question becomes, what do you do next? And I think if I do an adapted Mirage, then it doesn't go further enough. One way to acquire a big creative amplitude would be to do the polar opposite. It's like a good restaurant. You say, I'm able to do a good piece of fish and now I can do a good dessert as well. And I think I understand that it can be surprising when you are fully into the Mirage, but I think for the brand on the long run, it is very important to quickly acquire some territory of expression, I would say. And if you look down in the books, I think the strongest brands are the ones who have been able to show different level of expressions. So as you said, the Quantième is completely different in terms of mood. The Mirage is our ultimate expression of a dress watch. The creative pitch was, what would happen if you let the gears dictate the shape of the watch? So a Mirage is really a watch melted around its train of gears, if I had to put it simply. And the Quantième is a different problematic. It is, what if you could live every day with your most complex watch in a very effortless manner? As you know, complicated watches are often tedious to live with. You struggle to read them. You struggle to set them. You are quite cautious wearing them. And that, in my opinion, makes the wearing experience harder to enjoy. Yes, or you never set the watch. This is a Quantième annuel. Quantième in French means accounting device. And being an annual Quantième, this one will count over an increment of 365 days. So an annual calendar, basically. Correct. In terms of complication, it's an annual calendar. The way this is constructed, this was the key sketch. One thing I wanted to solve was the problem of readability. Here you will read the time vertically and it's what we call a double regulator display. So the information is brought to you in a sequence, in a one, two, three punch, I like to say. So you have the hour at 12 o'clock, the minute in the center, the second at six o'clock, very traditional. So hour, minute, seconds. And you will read your complication with the day, the date, and the month from left to right. And at the intersection of the two, you have an AM, PM indicator, which is extremely convenient, especially when you set the hour to make sure your date doesn't jump at noon instead of midnight. So you have this very convenient layout. We can also show later on, but we also worked on the manipulation. So you have no correctors on the case, which require the use of the pen I'm using here. We have on the watch, two pushers, which are respectively at seven o'clock and four o'clock here, which help you to set basically the windows when you push on it. And these are flush with the case? Correct. And they also follow the same shape? Yes, correct. They are completely, it's basically a cutout in the case of the watch. And the goal is to, they are wide enough so that you can have an easy action, but they are flush so that you don't manipulate them by mistake. Yeah, that they don't also stick out, if you look from the front. Yes, you don't see them. That will be easier to just put them on the case and that's it. Yes, yes, much easier to have them. Water tightness and everything. Correct. So readability was one thing. Usability, you can use it on the fly. It takes less than a minute to set this thing. You start by the month and then you reverse back to the smallest increment. So you can set the date, the hour, and then the day of the week. It takes less than a minute. You can do it in a bus, not while driving, but otherwise in any other circumstances. And the last thing is, in terms of technique, this watch being an annual calendar, knows the day of the month. It will require your help only once a year in February, where you have to jump. It will go to the 29th of February all the time. And when it's 28, you have to help it three years out of four to jump the 29th to the 1st of March. Otherwise, it knows all the rest. Is there a reason you didn't go to the perpetual calendar? Yes. Because you've done so much. So two reasons. First, from a historical perspective, maybe not too many people know this, but the annual calendar came after the perpetual calendar. It's actually much older. Patek initiated the annual calendar. I find the complication more romantic in the sense that it is a more compact package and a more, in my opinion, down-to-earth complication. Because let's face it, unless you wear your watch four years in a row, you don't need a leap year indicator. So this watch already can compute an entire year. I don't think many of our customers will give me the privilege to wear this watch a full year non-stop, which is why I wanted the setting mechanism to be so friendly. Because otherwise, it happened to me as a collector. I used to have multiple complicated calendars. You open your box in the morning and you go, that's 30 minutes of setting, that's 15 minutes. Like I want something easy and you take... This might break. And I wanted really to correct that so that you no longer have the fear or the burden to have to wear this watch. It also has a very singular display in the sense that we have four jumping windows and a retrograde date in the center. So at the end of each month, this watch has to perform a quintuple jump and it's an instant jump. So we jump the hour, the day, the month, the AM, PM, and the retrograde goes back. The same time. To one in an instant, all of it. And we were... So in terms of energy management, it is extremely demanding, I can show. And once a year, it's five times. No, it's every month. Every month five times because you jump everything. Yeah. So in order to make a movement like this, to work and not really drain the power reserve in those jumps, you had to figure out a solution. Correct. And maybe explain to us, how many components does a traditional annual calendar have versus yours? So this movement has... So a traditional annual calendar will be under 300 components. To give a point of comparison, any chronograph is in the 300-ish parts. A good chronograph. And this watch has 476 components. So we are talking 50% more. A second comparison could be a minute repeater, which is considered with Grandes Sonneries the highest echelon. Correct. The highest echelon in terms of complexity. They start at 450. So we are definitely in the realm of minute repeaters in terms of complexity. Why? Because we had to implement four remontoires. Five, actually. Five remontoires in the movement. So from the front, it looks very simple because you have this big disc that hides all the madness. But behind, you have... It looks like a repeater chronograph. Yeah. This part especially reminds me of chronograph movements, usually. Yeah, correct. And here, for example, so that's one remontoire. Here you have this cam, which we wind over the course of 24 hours. And once it's fully winded, it will drop onto the star seven and this will jump the indicator for the day of the week. Yeah. And we replicate this strategy, if I can call it this way, five times in the movement over different increments. So we do it over 60 minutes for the hour, 12 hours for the AM, PM, which is twice a day. And then we do 24 hours for the day and the date. And 30 days or 29 is the smallest increment for the month. And the way to achieve this, if I flip the movement on the back side now, is we have two barrels stacked together, which are huge pocket watches style type of barrels, which provide five days of power reserve. So this watch, despite being very small, is five days of power reserve. Yeah. And using so much energy as well. Yeah, correct. And it spends its time slowly, but surely winding all these remontoires to make sure the energy is stored in the right place and ready to drop basically when the time comes. And this is two barrels. Yeah, correct. Double barrel mounted in series. Not with double springs inside, huh? No, two huge one spring barrels, like traditional old school. What's nice to pair the two together is they offer a very high torque, but very smooth and very long power delivery, which is precisely what we need for that type of exercise, where you need to, it's like a cyclist cycling uphill all the time, with a small resistance to wind the remontoire. And basically when you wind the watch, how long does it take to wind the watch? 55 turns of crown. So it's quite reasonable. Okay, nothing crazy. I've been winding some watches for much longer than that. And then both barrels basically distribute energy to the remontoires. Correct. And the escapement basically. Correct. And we made the calculation. The strategy of the remontoire is the only way to have it in such a tight package. We made the calculation on the computer when we started. If you wanted to call the energy from the spring of the barrel without the remontoire, we would need six barrels mounted in series to have the torque to do it. That's why you need to wind the remontoire slowly. So it's the only way to do it in a tight package. You also filed for a few patents, now with this watch. Correct. We filed two patents, which haven't been publicly launched yet. But one is an anti-rebound system, because the problem with doing instant jumps, it's one thing to be able to send the part, but then you have to stop it. Yes, exactly. So we had to... Breaking mechanism. Yeah, correct. We had to come up with an anti-rebound system to make sure it jumps and it stops where it needs to be, especially for the hour disk. Which it doesn't like, yeah. Because otherwise it goes too far. Yeah. Which is quite frustrating because you spend so much brain power to move it quickly and you also have to spend the time to say, okay, how can I stop it in an efficient manner? So super complex. Yeah. And I know there's more hidden stuff below here, which we don't show. But also like, how difficult was it to do this, but still keep it all symmetrical, balanced, mirror basically. And this is also, in terms of aesthetic... Hide this bell below here, so it doesn't pop out. You keep the symmetry. I think this approach to making movements is a typical characteristic of what I would call the high-end independence. It's not only stacking wheels and pinions together. There is a proper reflection and intention behind building a movement where you could compare the wheels to rooms in a house, for example, and you decide, okay, I want to show my barrel at six o'clock. The second one will therefore be hidden under the bridge. In my case, I wanted for the interaction to have what I call the winding train here. So when you wind your watch and you flip it over, all the train here is moving when you wind it. Because here you have the crown wheel, the clicket here, that's a massive clicket with two arms like this, like a pocket watch, because you have so much torque in the springs. Otherwise, if it was one spring, it would slip away. This is typically, for example, a minute repeater clicket because you need the strength to stop it. I think I have a similar one in my resonance watch. Yeah? Yeah, with two. Yeah. Probably the same reason. Yeah, that means you have power in your springs. When you have two, in general. And here you have the ratchet wheel. And then, so you have this... And this turns as well, huh? Yeah, correct. Much slower, yeah. Because it's so... And then once you have activated the train of winding, then you have the train of regulating that will activate with the balance wheel at 12 o'clock. Question. Do you have to... With remontage, it's extremely difficult to also regulate them. Do you have to regulate all of the five as well, separately? This is when... You have special components just for those? Correct. So out of the 476 components, 408 of them are entirely bespoke to this movement. The 68 components left are jewels and screws, mainly. That are screws that we already use in the Mirage, for example. And what I would call standard components. So 408 components that have been... That had to be conceived, mapped out in the plans, ordered, quality checked, etc. Which is why I often say it's a very humbling project. Because the number of parts in this movement is three times what we did in the Mirage. And the company is like four years old. So it's complex. You've done it quickly, I think. We try. I'm very lucky to be surrounded by people that master their disciplines. Whether it is at the technical office, the atelier. I'm very fortunate and grateful for their presence. And it's a joy every day. Because I could never do this alone, to be honest. Like it's way too complex. Therefore, this watch with the 476 components, it's one week to put it together. And another week to adjust it, like you said, to regulate it. And why this is complex? It's because you have a lot of... Complicated watchmaking starts when you have a lot of springs. Tensioner springs and arms. Like in a chronograph, like in a sonnerie, like in this. Here we have multiple springs linked to one another. Because when you jump the month, you need to jump the day in certain scenarios. And the watchmaker needs to adjust the height, the width and the tension of each spring together so that it works nicely. And people say, oh, you could rise up your level of manufacturing. No, because in each component you have a tolerance like plus five microns. And because if you stack 20 parts together and they are all at the minus tolerance, let's say minus five microns, then you have that times 20. And at the end, you need to adjust and vice versa. This is why this is what we call typically very complex. Horlogerie compliquée or high horology or... Yeah, clearly. And it doesn't really show because on the dial you have this very, I would say, simple cross looking architecture. Yeah, it looks like a simple watch on the front. Correct. And I think the size is also deceiving of the case, you know. I have a very small wrist and I can rock this. It's like 38 millimeters. Yeah, but also it's not too tall. No, no. For again, all of this to fit in. It's 10 millimeters thick without the glass, 11 with the glass. And if you flip it on its head, then you can... There's nothing there. For now, you don't see anything at the first point, but if you push on the crown, we have a hidden officer case back. Which I love. And you can see your gold movement inside. And the gold here of the officer case back is what I would call a Calvinist mentality of wearing a top of the tree type of product. And it's only if you want to share it with others that you can. Otherwise, you can enjoy it in a discrete manner, which is sometimes a bit counterintuitive in a society which tends to flex a little more. But it was my dream to make a watch like this. And to finish, I should also mention one of the points, because I had the very traumatizing experience of, in my personal collection, heavily damaging a platinum case. Okay. With what, bumps? I hit a door jam, basically. I was walking, somebody just unbalanced me. I still hear the noise in my head. Still wakes you up at night. Yeah, yeah. And I... It's such a watch collector problem you have. Yeah. And I had the sad... It was years ago. And I had the sad procedure to discover that platinum is very... I need the therapy after this one. No, but more seriously, platinum is very soft. So it scratches like butter, but it's very tedious to repair. And it's notoriously known for being very hard to repair. Why? Because the melting point is 1700 degrees, which is twice as high as gold. So by the time you bring this case to the melting point, usually you curb the tolerances. That's why we can't fix them. Oh, it's very hard. Even the laser editing stuff, if it's done too heavily on the lug or something, you can be sure you will crook your case. So in this case, we developed a new hybrid construction, a new concept of what we call a steel layer. So this case is platinum at 85% of its mass. And on top, we have the bezel for a component of each lug. It's like a bonnet, if we want. And the capuchon on the crown, which are made of 904 steel. This represents 15% of the mass. I can unscrew each component individually. And it means two things. First, you can wear this watch without sweating like me. Because if you ding it or scratch it, you will scratch steel, which is much harder to scratch, much more resistant to impacts. And in five years, 10 years, if you send us the watch for service, I can replace the steel layer at a friendly cost. It looks like new one. Correct. And you get out of the workshop with a watch which is back to its nominal sharpness, which means I don't have to polish it. And it won't turn into a piece of soap after half a century, because you will have to make the difficult decisions of do I polish or not? Yeah. Plus, you add another layer of three-dimensionality to the lugs, I think. You're like a stepped lug, basically, now, which is cool. And a geeky detail, because I think it's the right spot to share this. Stepped lugs is the traditional way of making complicated cases. And most of the time, if you zoom in very closely, in the negative angle of the step is usually the area of the watch which is the less finished, because you can't access with the tool. You can't polish properly because you start rounding all the edges. Here, because the part is screwed on, It's perfect. it's impeccably finished on both sides, because it's actually two different parts stacked together. So this is also something I was very happy. And you have also this tension line around the case, which is a creative seam, which basically runs across the side of the case and reappears between the lugs. This also, in terms of polishing, requires, the case maker call it façonnage, where you have to really shape the transition between basically two surfaces melting into one. And that requires... So from the case to the lug. Correct. And you have this smooth transition, which is hard to achieve. Yeah, I'm sure. Awesome, man. And also, I think there was a big part of figuring out how to make the hour as readable as possible. Because from the front, it looks like it's all on the same level with the day of the week and the month. But once you go closer, you see there's actually a big drop in the hour. How did you solve this? Right. We have three different layers of disc stacked together. This is also one of the, I would say, modern interpretations of this watch. This is why the windows are so big. It's because we went multi-layer in the construction, instead of having all the discs on the same level. And we did a lot of optic study to find what we call the parallax. Because most of these calendar watches, you can read them okay front view. And if you tilt it even 10, 15 degrees, you can't read them. Here, you can tilt it up to 45 degrees. The windows disappear usually. Yeah, correct. And so we wanted really to sculpt the dial in a manner where it fights parallax. And you can read it from multiple different angles. And we brought these polished indices. And you have different surfaces that have been used to make sure that you can read it from different angles. And as you said, fight the different heights. Because the three main windows are on three different planes, basically. Two different heights. Yeah, you made like little coliseums for every one of them, basically. Two steps here below the hour. At 12 o'clock. So it's below the hour window. Yes. We have two indices layered in some sort of stairs, basically, to come down to this level. So it is effectively the deepest window, which remains surprisingly readable, despite how deep it is into the dial. Yeah, but also from the side. I'm almost here at 90 degrees and it's still visible. The glass is also specially shaped. Correct. It's not a normal dome, but it's a dome. And then it flattens or something, no? Yeah, it's not a constant radius, as you said. So it accelerates on the sides, which helps to make the glass dive right after the minute hand finishes, basically. It makes the watch more compact. And it also brings this little optic deformation, which has this very vintage flair that I personally love so much. It reminds me of the good old pocket watches. Yeah. The porcelain dials and stuff. Or like diver's watches as well. They have a bit, the old ones. You know, the compressor cases and stuff, which have this. Yeah, correct. And no big brand name on the front, just your signature. Like an artist, basically. Correct. Yeah, this is what we... Almost invisible, basically. Yeah. We have the small signature, like on the Mirage, like to see these collections as a work of art, if we could say. Yeah. Outwear is what we stand for as a brand. Exactly. That's cool. That's cool, man. Because it's also, it's very complex, yet it looks simple to understand. And so I think you can cover a lot of the market with the watch. Because for people who don't want their watches to look too complex, it's perfect. But if you want to geek out, you totally can, right? How was the reception so far? Because when the Mirage came out, the pricing was at about $55,000, $60,000. Correct. Now we sell it with the rise of precious metal. We sell the Mirage at $65,000. Yeah. The first Mirage is fully sold out. Yeah. So don't contact him for that. We're going to launch a new Mirage in September this year. For which you can contact him. And this, the Quantième Annuel, is the inaugural piece of our second collection. We will launch in two years a new complication in this collection. And the reception has been far greater than I could possibly imagine. As we speak, we have three years of allocation booked for this watch. For the Quantième. And we make 24 pieces of each dial color. So we have a lacquered black and an opal and silver proposal. And both of them are allocated for the next three years. And we retail them. Well, not retail, but we allocate them at the price of 140,000 Swiss francs a piece. How was the reception when the price came out? Because again, before you dive into all of this, and you have to understand watchmaking, you just compare apples to oranges. You say Mirage was X, Quantième is Y. And you have different ways to do it. Because if you do a numbers game, I will never win. And we, the independents, will never win. Because we don't have the industrial volume to compete with. So if you go annual calendar versus annual calendar, and you start ticking the boxes, this is much more expensive. But so is the Mirage. I had the reflection three years ago. People told me, oh, who are you to launch a three-hand watch, and you are three times more expensive than the traditional established brands. How can you justify that? How dare you? Like Greta would say. And in this case, it's the same. Yes, it is much more expensive. It is much rarer. It is much more complicated. And as I said in our discussion, I like to believe that it elevates the proposal in terms of complicated calendars. I've owned myself multiple complicated calendars. It was my dream. This solves the problems that I identified to turn… For yourself, huh? Yeah, to turn a watch that is not friendly to live with into something that you can actually properly enjoy. The last comparison I could make is to the world of fashion. To me, a good suit is a suit that you can dance in. Yeah, because it's stretchy. You're not so tight in it. You can actually dance with your partner, and you remain elegant and fluid in your movement. And this is what I'm trying to achieve. It should be a watch that you're not wearing it worried, or that you didn't have the time or the memory to set it, etc. It should be top of the tree, and you can wear it in a discreet manner, very relaxed. That's what I try to achieve. So, Mirage, then the Quantième. Mirage Miroir, we launched in September. We are currently unveiling it step by step in our Instagram. It's basically an open work version of the Mirage, but there is more than meets the eye. It's called Miroir for a good reason. It's because it's actually an entirely new movement, but we will come into this later. And next year, we will actually initiate, unveil our third collection, which is named Fiasco, and which will be a jewelry-centered collection. And I think with time, it will become more and more obvious what we try to achieve, which is a very rich and diverse portfolio with different collections. And basically, the Quantième is the hardest one because it's the highest step. I go so far away. So you went from the easiest to... The most complex, correct. You didn't want to do... No, because I think that the... It's brave, huh? The goal was to stretch the bandwidth as much as we can to acquire a plain field of expression. And now, if I go in the middle and launch a jewelry collection, hopefully, the brand will be able to... Absorb it as well. Correct. Even in terms of knowledge, complexity, and everything. I can say it's not something you expect, basically, which I think is kind of the theme here. I wish I could tell you that you can kind of look at the pieces and imagine the jewelry collection, but you can't. Which is fun. It's refreshing because we all know you could have done the Mirage in 15 different colors and sell millions of them and continue this money train, let's say. But I'm sure it was hard to also stop, especially after the demand as a business owner. But the way we see it, and I'm not the only one to share this vision. Again, like our common friends, like Simon and Red Chef, we like to explore. We like to bring the creative theme further. And it's not about repeating a successful recipe. It's really about... I think all generations have the duty to push the envelope. Like you, me, everybody. We still have something to bring on the table. At least that's what we want to achieve. I think so. From what I saw so far and what's coming, definitely you're on the right path. And again, I can't wait to show the next watches on the 23rd of June, 2028. He's putting pressure on me now. 28. We filmed the jewelry watch, probably. He's putting pressure on me now. I have to be on time. I have to mark it in the calendar. Shit, Marco is coming. Just make like a little note to everybody. So at what time will you deliver the first Conteams? We launched last year, in September 2025. We took the first orders. We took 50% deposit to basically buy the tools, buy the parts, buy everything we need to do. This is also... I'm very grateful. The gold, the platinum. Yeah, correct. I mean, this is a huge... For the record, we spent over 2 million Swiss francs of R&D to make this movement. And it is, despite working with the single best movement technical office in the entire world, I should even say, it took us nine iterations to bring this movement to life. These are huge projects. And but to come back to your questions, we're going to deliver the first pieces before Christmas this year, 24 of each dial color. Awesome. And we're going to keep delivering 24 of each per year for a period of 10 years, which means we will make 240 watches of each. And this will be the end of the A-series. After the A-series will come the B-series, which is like the Mirage and technical and aesthetical increment. If you like an evolution, but not a revolution. Awesome. Which is, I think in today's market, it's a quick turnaround, you know, because we often face long delivery times as collectors, you know, and then you either do give a 50% deposit or 10% or the full thing. You wait for six years. You hope the watch comes, you know, in the same time you lose money because you could have used the money for your business. And some watchmakers are flexible. Others are less, of course. So I think a one-year delivery from order is in today's market is nothing. For us, it is between the minimum is one year, because even when we launch, we deliver a year after. So that's minimum a year, but it's maximum three years because after three years, we decide to stop taking orders for two reasons. One, I think, and I've been in the shoes of the collector who have to wait more than three years. I think your taste can evolve. Inflation can occur. Too many macro elements can happen to change the deal. And I don't want the bad blood of like, look, Marco, now it's more expensive, you know, because the gold, or you call me back and you say, look, I've changed my mind. I need the money back or something. Yeah. So I think three years is the sweet spot for me, at least to lock it down. And once a year has passed, for example, this year, when we're going to have delivered our first 48 pieces, then I open the other one. When it opens, yeah. Correct. Makes sense, yeah. And what happens if the price goes up a lot in terms of gold? If it fluctuates more than 20%, we have to adjust the price down the line. But otherwise, so far, I haven't changed my pricing for any customer. I've never called anybody to say, look, it's more expensive than we need. Yeah. So in the meantime, you just eat the cost, basically. And it goes up and down. So sometimes we lose, sometimes we win, but I guarantee you that it's not in my favor. On average, yeah. I think it's a more annoying factor than like a good one, you know, to worry about. It's stressful for us because it modifies the calendar into which we have to order the components. Sometimes we go like, look, it's a bit low. Maybe we should buy more, jump ahead. And then it goes down again or up. Or vice versa. We're like an investor now, like a commodity investor now as well. And we have some collectors that are in the trading game who ask me, you should edge the price of gold. Buy the gold now. We could do amazing stuff. And I'm like, look, guys, it's not my domain. And I want to focus on making good watches. This is what I know how to do. Not to trade gold. Yeah, because you can quickly burn yourself, I think. And then how would I look like to say, look, guys, I've played with the deposits and now I lost it, so to speak. Because I need more money. Yeah, of course. So I really try to avoid this. I'm a collector first and foremost, as many guys here are. And we try to treat collectors the same way we'd like to be treated. Yeah, nice. Merci. Thank you. It was a pleasure. It's always a pleasure. I can't wait to see the next piece working. Again, when the first balance will start moving, it's always a pleasure. If you guys have any questions, just contact us, Ivan. Please, not for this watch. This is long gone. There's new ones coming. Just get in line. And again, you guys are very easy to talk to. Email on Instagram as well. Thank you guys for watching. And we'll see you soon. Thank you.