Social media is EXPLOITING young girls and turning Women into PRODUCTS not people - Freya India

I'm Emma Trimble, I'm here at the ARC conference, and I'm very glad to be joined by Freya India, who has just written an excellent new book called Girls, Gen Z and the Commodification of Women. So Freya, how are you finding the conference so far? Yeah, it's good. So many people here. It's nice to be somewhere where I feel like people are really worried about young women. A lot of people coming up to me who are dads, who have daughters, and they don't know anything about what's going on in women's worlds. And so it's quite heartening for me and also young men as well who are worried. So in the subtitle of your book, which I just got slightly wrong there, which is the commodification of everything. Yeah. What do you mean by that? I suppose I mean, I wanted to get across how much social media consumes young girls lives, and how the market basically intrudes on every age old experience. So whether it's getting used to how you look, whether it's your first crush, first heartbreak, this is all playing out on social media platforms now. And I feel like older generations don't quite realise that that is the real world for young women. That is what matters more than reality. So I really wanted to get across that everything feels commodified and cheap. Everything is happening on their smartphones. And it's a very different way of existing than previous generations. I actually think that women are now something more like products rather than people. There's nothing more important than keeping your money and your identity safe online. And with so many VPN options available, choosing the right one can be pretty daunting. But this video sponsor ExpressVPN is making the choice easier for GB News viewers. ExpressVPN is offering up to 75% off plus four extra months free. That's top level security from just £2.49 a month. And you're covered by their 30 day money back guarantee. 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Start protecting yourself today with ExpressVPN. You've done a lot of work with the psychologist Jonathan Haidt. I think you write for his platform as well. And now you're at the Free Press. How do you understand the sort of psychology of what's happening? Because we've seen a lot in the news recently about this ban of under 16s being able to use certain social media apps. Do you think that's a good thing? Or do you worry about maybe the implications when it comes to digital ID and adults having to verify themselves online as well? Yeah, I love the idea of it. But then I think in the UK context, I know the UK and I know the fears that people have here about not only what they can share online, but even what they're just reading and consuming online. And I've looked into the actual wording of like the Online Safety Act, and the definition of harm is so vague. And I think if you're conservative, if you're writing about anything in a counter cultural way, you'd be worried about age verification, because anything could be considered harm, you know, my subset could be considered harm. I'm sure there's some people who think that it is. Yeah. And so I just don't think that age verification is the answer. I'm actually quite hopeful about culture. I think the culture is really changing. Like I said, I've spoken to young men who are worried about young women, I've spoken to young women who want complete change in their life. And so I really hope that the actual culture will change before we need legislation. Where do you think that cultural shift is coming from? Is it coming from the fact that young people are recognizing the way that social media and the digital age and this commodification of everything is making them feel that it's making them feel bad, and they're reacting against that? Or is it coming from something external to the to that particular generation? No, I think you're right. I think it's feeling and that's how I got into all of this was just I felt really bad. And I felt very anxious. And I started to then try and figure out what it was rather than coming at it intellectually. And wanting to say something, I just really felt that things were wrong. And I think things have gotten to such a place now, whether it's social media, family breakdown, all of the things people are talking about here. It's gotten so bad that young women just feel constantly anxious. And I think then they're looking for something different. Maybe they're looking for religion, or maybe they're looking for marriage or just a completely different story to what they've been told. And I think, I really think things have gotten bad, so bad, they're going to get good again. So you your book is entitled girls. Yeah. Why was it that you chose to focus specifically on girls? How do you how do you think that this is? Is it affecting girls in a specific way? Is it? Yeah. Is it? Is it affecting girls, perhaps more than it's affecting boys? I think that both men and young women are struggling. But I think for girls, the pull of social media is so strong. And I actually think the platforms are designed specifically to not only harm girls vulnerabilities, but their vices as well. It's how, like I said, all of these age old experiences are playing out for them online. And I really feel it makes us vain and self obsessed. And it's encouraging us constantly to worry about how we look and how we feel and how we come across, which is actually a pretty miserable existence. And I think that's why young women are so unhappy, because they're no longer human. They are essentially just products on the market. What do you think of? There was an article not too long ago about the angry, young, angry young women. Yeah. What do you what do you think about with the argument there that, you know, there is a generation of young women that have been so affected that they, you know, we often hear about angry, young, angry young men, but that actually there is this generation of of angry young women. And how do you see that playing out as those women sort of get older and as time passes? Yeah, I think that we hear the same story over and over, which is that young men are very angry and young men are radicalized. But I actually think if you look at the experience of girls, social media feeds, and this is what I wanted to get across in the book, is that the messaging they're getting is so pessimistic. So they may have, for example, divorced parents. And the place that they learn from love is from social media, where they read the worst horror stories about men, where they can go onto Reddit forums and all ruminate together about why relationships are doomed. They can get TikTok saying that all men are toxic. And I think when you actually go into their world, you can see why they feel angry. And I think they really don't have positive examples of love and relationships. And so in the book, I try to encourage adults as much as possible to share positive stories, because I think young women are angry because they're just so desperate for some good examples. How do you see that sort of playing out in terms of young female role models? Is there anyone particularly that has been a role model in your life that led you actually down the path that you're now on with this amazing book? I suppose for me, it's my grandparents. So my grandparents have been married for 65 years, and I'm very close to my grandma. And I think I always encourage women to look for relationships in real life, so not on social media. Sometimes it's hard if you have divorced parents. It's hard to know where to go. But I do think that older generations did have it right when it comes to relationships. A lot of the time, their advice is very simple. It's not overcomplicated. And I think as much as possible, if we can look around for healthy relationships and really pay attention to them, what they do and what they don't do, and try and follow that as best we can. Do you see there being a positive role for the digital world in all this? Because obviously, we're heading headlong towards the AI revolution, and we're probably already past that point now. And the internet isn't going to go away. We can maybe try to stop younger people from using it. But do you see a more positive use for the digital world and also for technology, for helping people to perhaps leave behind the troubles that they have developed as a result of being online, that maybe there's a way out that uses the internet? I think so. I mean, I'm here because of the internet. I'm here because of Substack. I do all my writing online. I think it's really good for young people to commodify their work online. I think that's really amazing that we can do that. It's when they're commodifying themselves and their personal life on social media constantly. But I do think it's a great place for young women to share their stories, and as cliche as it sounds, to realize that they're not alone. If other people are talking about how they're affected by modern dating or family breakdown or whatever it is, then you feel like you have permission and the language to talk about it. And so I think there's definitely a place for the internet, but I think after the age of 16 and trying as hard as you can not to have your personal life as the thing that you're selling. What have you found in the reaction that people have had to this book? How have people responded? Have you had a negative feedback against it? Yeah, I think that a lot of the conclusions I come to are sort of conservative coded conclusions. So I'll talk about the importance of marriage and families being stable, or the worry I have about online porn or the hours and hours that girls spend online. And a lot of these things are now considered old-fashioned sort of conservative viewpoints. And I think that imposes a cost on young women, because like I said, you don't have the language to then talk about the pain that you're feeling. And so I think for a lot of girls, they feel this anxiety and they can't pinpoint where it's coming from. And I think the mainstream media have a part to play in that, in that they constantly tell us that these things are healthy, they're not things to worry about. And even things like religion they say are harmful. And I think those messages are so drilled into young women. And when really, when you look at the data, these things are really important for our mental health. And so I think we have to look past the framing of whether this is a right-wing issue, a reactionary issue, and just try and see from the data and from our lives, try and tune in to what's hurting us and why. Do you think that there are some people who maybe avoid those things because they feel that they are conservative coded, that maybe there are things that they want, but they feel that actually these things that may be good for them have come to be thought of as partisan, when in fact, they're just a part of natural, normal, human, healthy life? Definitely. I feel like even talking positively about your partner or dreaming of having children, or even feeling hurt by things, feeling hurt by, let's say your partner is addicted to online porn, you can't express any discomfort with that because that's being judgmental and we have to be, you know, accepting of everyone's personal tastes and preferences. And so I do feel that this liberal framework really takes away the language to talk about how you're feeling about something. And I think we have to stop framing things as conservative and old-fashioned and actually look at what is, why are young women so unhappy? And a lot of the time it's because of these old foundations have fallen away. You've done amazing work in building up your sub-stack and reaching so many people through your sub-stack and now through your book as well. What sort of reaction have you gotten from young women who maybe have been feeling the way that you were feeling and are coming to your work and maybe seeing some of themselves and their lives in it? Well that's amazing because I think for me growing up I always felt that this is a me problem because I didn't have the language to describe it. I would always think I'm just anxious and insecure. And so for me it's so reassuring to have young women say I felt the same way my whole life, you know, I've always wanted stability in a relationship. And them sort of realizing that these are not backward reactionary things, they're pretty normal human reactions to the world. And so I think there are some young women who have a visceral reaction to the book. There's very loud vocal group of young women who are very liberal and won't have the time for it. But there are so many young women who message me and say that they feel the same and that is just so reassuring to me, not just professionally but personally. And we're here at the Art Conference. There are so many, you know, world leaders here, former prime ministers, diplomats, we've got people from all sort of walks of life, whether academic, education, across the board. What would your message be to those people, to people who are in positions of authority within education or political authority, people who are, you know, in senior positions within their own countries? What would your message be to them? I think that the issues that young women are facing are really important. I think not just for the young women themselves and their struggles but I think it ricochets out and affects everyone. So I think a lot of the men's crisis is driven by what's happening to young women. You know, they don't feel that they have relationships where they feel loved. They don't feel that young women want to get married or have children. A lot of the polls show that men are actually more keen for those things than women now. And a lot of young women are just really unhappy and this does not bode well for their future, doesn't bode well for the future of society and families in general. And so I feel that taking that more seriously and recognizing that, you know, I hear some conservatives say sometimes, you know, that feminists have sort of made their bed and, you know, women are just unhappy whatever they do. I think you really have to think about the next generation of women who have just grown up in this world, they've never known any different, and really trying to have compassion for the world they're growing up in and what they're trying to navigate. If there are any young women who are watching this, what would your advice be to them in navigating the situation that you describe really in your book and this commodification of everything and not just the online world as it is now, but the online world as it is coming to be in the future is a much more kind of complicated feel to navigate. I think just having an awareness of how unusual it is, it's not normal to be constantly marketing yourself online and dropping some of that pressure of having to be this perfect product. I think some young women think they have to be this perfect product in order to be loved, in order to be seen, and I think stepping back and realizing how unnecessary some of that is, that you can't just be a person in the world, and I think also trying to be vulnerable with your partner, you know, if you do have a fear of relationships, if you are scared of families in the future, to offer that to someone and explain why you feel that way rather than, I think some young women have a defense mechanism where they want to be the strong independent woman. You know, I try to do that a lot and realize that it's counterproductive, you know, you can just be vulnerable about how you feel, and so I do encourage young women to own it, you know, if something hurts you, if modern dating hurts you, if you're upset from family breakdown, to talk about it and not be ashamed that you're some conservative. Great, India, thank you so much for joining us. Her book is Girls, the Gen Z and the Commodification of Everything. Thank you again and thank you for watching.