The Conscious Consultant Hour - Myths & Magic of the Psychedelic Revolution with Jay Fiset

Good afternoon, my conscious co-creators. Welcome to another edition of The Conscious Consultant Hour Awakening Humanity. I am very, very pleased that you are all here with me today. We've got another wonderful show in store for you with an excellent guest that I'm truly looking forward to bringing on in just a moment. But first, of course, we have my blog post from a couple of years ago, just kind of taking these in order. And I think, actually, this one's rather apropos for our conversation today. And today's blog post is entitled, When We Let Go of the Energy of Our Old Stories, We Can Write the Story of a New Life. Our healing path can often be frustrating. Experiences and feelings from the past keep coming up. We work on them and process them, yet they persist. It can be confusing and depressing to keep doing our work, for it can feel like no matter how much we do, we are still dealing with Those formative experiences we had as children keep coming back up. The pain, the trauma, the guilt, the shame. It all seems to never go away. After we have been working on ourselves for months, even years, we expect it to be further along. When will we find relief? How do we get past all of this? We can feel defeated at times, as if we will never find a way to feel better. Yet that is never so. There is always a way forward. And it is helpful to remember that healing is a journey and not a destination. That every day we continue to do our work, we are actually getting better. We just may not feel it at the time. For the reason that we continue to deal with the same issue is often that we are holding onto the energy of that situation. We continue to feel angry, judged, shamed, belittled, even though those situations are long gone. It is our own resistance that keeps those energies alive within us. As we keep telling ourselves the same stories over and over again, we are only reinforcing those patterns, feelings, and behaviors. To move past those feelings, we must make a conscious effort to let go of those energies and change the stories we have been living into all these years. When we stop seeing ourselves as a victim of our history and learn to rewrite the tales we tell ourselves, we find a new freedom. Embracing the power of being the creators we truly are is the only way to change how we feel. It is the path forward to a new life. In the beginning, we might not feel the new story we tell ourselves. The new story might not feel true to us. Keep telling it anyway. The more we tell it, the more we embrace the new stories we tell. The more they will feel real. And once we cross that threshold and start truly feeling that the new stories are real, then we will feel different. Then we will live a different life. All those years of working on ourselves start to pay off, even without thinking about it. We are feeling better. It does not happen overnight. Yet it does happen. Stay on the path, and you will get there. And it will all be worth it. So I wrote this blog post, I think more for myself than for anybody else, because it really, you know, I've been doing spiritual and personal work for decades now. And I find even myself, it can feel really frustrating that the stories, the situations that I remember, you know, working on, you know, 12, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, that still they keep coming up, like there's still some energy I'm holding on to. And even I remember coming to my first ceremony just over 12 years ago. And the content that came up and the energy that came up was something I was already conscious of, like, I already knew about all this stuff. I already had thought I'd processed it and work on it and all these things. Yet still, I could feel inside of me that I was holding on to the energy in some fashion. And 12 years later, still, not to the same intensity, not necessarily from the same perspective. But still, I can feel that there's still some holding on to that story. And little by little, I keep tweaking the story and changing it and making it one where I'm not as much a victim, but a co-creator of the situations that I'd been in when I was younger. And look, when I talk about, like, telling ourselves a new story and changing how we feel about a situation, I'm not saying we can spiritually bypass what we've been through. Like, if there's pain, if there's anger, if there's grief, to metabolize those energies, we have to feel it eventually. We're not going to, you know, get out of this without really feeling the emotions that we've stopped ourselves from feeling all these years. Yet once we do metabolize those energies, once we do feel those things, to lean into a new direction, to move forward in a new way, one of the most powerful tools is to be conscious of, be aware of the stories we've been telling ourselves. What are those stories in the back of our mind that we keep repeating over and over again? To interrupt that and stop that and change it and tell a new story. And of course, at first you tell a new story, it doesn't feel real. It doesn't feel true. It's hard to really hold on to it. But the more we tell that new story, the more we reinforce it, the more we lean into it, the more we give that new story our energy, the more it will build, it will grow, it will solidify, and it will become our truth. Now look, I'm not saying that, you know, by telling ourselves a new story that like everything is going to be better right away overnight, but it's kind of like greasing the wheels. It just makes going in the direction that we want to go in that much easier. And it's a lot of effort. It's effort. It's time. It's attention. And it may not feel like we're changing at all, that we're getting any better until one day that seed we've been planted and we've been watering for so long finally sprouts. And then we notice something comes out of our mouth that we were like, where did that come from? And we noticed we showed up in a way that was, wow, I was like, actually able to keep myself regulated and deal with this extremely stressful situation. You know, when we do this work, we're reprogramming our unconscious where we're efforting from our consciousness, we're shifting our energy. And again, it's not easy. And we may not feel like we're making much progress. But if we keep at it, and keep at it, and keep at it, when we least expect it, that's when the shift happens. That's when we barely even notice it. Suddenly, something shifts inside of us. For some people, it can take, I don't know, a month, a year, two, three years. For other people, it could take 10 years. Everyone's different. Everyone's level of attachment to those stories is different. But if we can recognize it, if we can become more aware of it, and we can say, no, that's not the story I want to tell about myself. And we shift it, and we consciously change it. And we change the words that are coming out of our mouth. Inevitably, it has to happen. We will start to feel better. We will start to feel different. We will start to show up differently. And those stories we've been telling that haven't quite felt real, will land and will feel more real than the old stories we used to live into. So that's my blog post for this week. Again, the title is, it's a long title, When We Let Go of the Energy of Our Old Stories, We Can Write the Story of a New Life. And of course, you can always find my blog at theconsciousconsultant.com. And if you like my blog posts, I just came out with an audio version of my book, Everyday Awakening. So you can go to everydayawakeningbook.com. That'll take you right to the Amazon listing. And you can pick up a copy of my new audio book while it's on sale. All right. Now, it is my extreme pleasure to welcome to the show, bestselling author, global speaker, mastermind mentor, and psychedelic educator, advocate, and guide, Jay Fassett. Over the years, Jay has worked with thousands of entrepreneurs and leaders, helping them grow not only their businesses, but themselves. His approach has always reached beyond conventional strategy, drawing on unconventional and deeply effective methods for unlocking clarity, creativity, and genuine transformation. Today, his work has expanded into one of the most important conversations of our time, the responsible, intentional use of psychedelics for healing, connection, and human potential. Jay's path into this work began close to home. High school sweethearts with his wife, Corey, partners in life and business for more than three decades. The two found themselves quietly leading parallel lives as kids, careers, and the loss of aging parents took their toll. Just before their 25th wedding anniversary, they were not sure their marriage would survive. A single powerful MDMA journey became an unexpected doorway into reinvention, renewal, and the deepest love of their lives. Out of that experience, Jay and Corey founded The Connection Experience, a series of retreats supporting committed couples in using psychoactives to reignite intimacy, healing, and presence in fundamentally healthy relationships. Welcome to The Conscious Consultant Hour, Jay. Well, thank you for having me. That was beautifully written. I was like, oh, I want to meet that guy. I know. Isn't that something? When you hear someone else read your own bio, it's like, wow, that's pretty impressive. I think perhaps either you guys updated it, or one of my assistants updated it, or something like that. It was like, oh, that's nice. Anyway, so great to see you again. Thank you for having me. Yeah, you're welcome. I always run through people's bios to tweak it a little bit, make it a little unique. It's so interesting, actually, looking at your path, because I always knew you as the online marketing guy, the JV guy, really just hardcore business kind of a person. Then when I heard that you had started getting into using and facilitating MDMA, it was really like, wow, Jay's getting into it? Well, you weren't the only one surprised. So was I, to be honest. But the other side of it that I think most people don't know in the digital, I'm going to say the digital marketing world, is that the first about 30, let's call it 25 to 30 years of my entrepreneurial life, Corey and I led an organization called Personal Best Seminars, where we put 40,000 people in Canada through this intense series of personal development programs. So our work was always personal transformation. And then, you'll probably get a charge of this. And then I came to this spot of, I don't want to do the personal development work anymore. It's like, I want to go work with entrepreneurs who are a little sharper and more complete and more evolved and will have more sophisticated problems. And so I go work in that space, and I find out that the entrepreneurs are exactly the same as everybody who had been serving for 35 years, except if they made a little money, they're also princesses and assholes. Here I am again. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's kind of funny. It's like people are people, just what they say. If they're a little more successful, they have a little more money, it just amplifies who they already are. But you seem to always have had such a great relationship with Corey, and she was always so much a part of what you did. I was actually quite surprised when I read in your bio that you guys were having trouble and you guys were on the verge of not even knowing. And I've been there too. And that's the thing. It's so funny, people who either aren't married or divorced or something, when they see people who've been married a long time, they think like, oh, that's so wonderful. That's so great. And there's always this idealized view. But relationships are hard. They're a lot of work, aren't they? Well, they certainly can be. This is a complex conversation. It's something that we talk about a lot, which is every single relationship has challenges. And I want to just underline that as clearly as I can possibly say it. And it doesn't mean that someone's addicted or there's abuse or like the vast majority of what we face and serve and support people with is this idea of parallel lives. And it's what Corey and I, I'm going to say, fell into, although that's kind of an inappropriate route to put it. But I'll share a couple of sort of prefaces that I hope people listening can resonate with, which is this. Our world in North America and our lifestyle in North America and the economy in North America requires too much of us. And the reality is that even in the greatest of relationships where there's love, where there's a stand for one another, where there's a belief in one another, what transpires is that the burden of dealing with everything shifts us from the space of when, I'm going to say when we were young and free and wilder, from this creation of a relationship and a life and a momentum into this space of coping. And I want to just really emphasize for a moment or two, like if you're listening and it's like, you're making excuses for all of the ---- that you're doing and that is going to be okay. You're already deep in coping. We don't start justifying our coping until the coping is frankly quite bothering us. So what happened for us in no uncertain terms was we were running a couple of businesses. We had adopted our first son, Wyatt. We adopted our second son, Jackson. Those two were fire and water. They did not get along. And then Corey's dad passed away and her mom slipped into Alzheimer's and Corey was doing primary care. And all of that occurred while I sold a business that I financed and the woman stopped paying and I had to take it back. And so we had all of these pieces that were like, any one or two of them would have stretched us. But we literally, we sat down and counted afterwards and we had a little perspective that we were dealing like eight or nine. We moved into a big stupid house because of the sale. And then all of a sudden I wasn't being paid for it. And then we couldn't afford the house. Like it was just like, it was a lot. Corey slipped into a depression that was never diagnosed, but it quite clearly in hindsight, that is what was going on. And we, and I'll put in air quotes, which we tried to do everything we knew how to do. And it all helped for a couple of months. And then we find ourselves in this space of being alone together again. And quite literally in that process of trying everything, we were invited to take, uh, to try MDMA, um, three times from three people that I really respected. Um, and I'd come back and talk about it before I'm going to be like a chemical in our body. Like, no way. So, so we dismiss it in about 15 seconds. Like it was like, you're not putting some chip, some guy made in a bathtub, trying to make money into our bodies. That is not happening. We don't do that. Um, and then we go back to struggling though, heading towards our 25th wedding anniversary. Like as a hail Mary pass gentlemen, I know loved and trusted, uh, who had been guiding, uh, journeys for a while, uh, offered to share with me and I had a meaningful experience. So that the point that I want to get back to is this idea of if you're coping and the honest God truth is most couples are like, we've now been at this for four years. We've supported about 400 and I'm going to say 25 experiences with, with couples. Um, even the ones that don't think they're coping after they've done some work with us to come and say, it's like, oh, we didn't know what we really were. We'd just gotten used to it anyway. So, so that's, that's how we got there. And, you know, thank goodness for the intervention of, uh, blessed psychedelics for us to see ourselves more accurately and more truly. Yeah. You know, what I love about that story is because it's similar to mine is that like the first reaction was no, no, no, no. Right. It's, I find it so interesting that like a lot of people think like, oh, you got into this, you must have like, like jumped into it right away and had no reservations or anything. And the truth is most of us do have reservations. I mean, I had personal experience back when I was in high school, you know, when I was a kid, but I'd gone, I hadn't done anything in decades. And when I got invited, my initial reaction was like, no, no, no, no. I don't do that anymore. Um, but then one thing or another kind of gets you there. Um, can I ask you that when you say one thing or another that gets you there, like that moment, that threshold is something that I'm really explaining. Can you make, may I ask what it was for you? Like, what was it? It's like, okay. So what happened was, is that the gentleman who I was good friends with at the time is actually a person who connected me to the gentleman I bought the radio station from, um, on this one weekend, my wife was away. She went to a psychology. My wife's a psychotherapist. She went to a psychology conference in China because she's originally from China. She's never been to a conference, a psychology conference before or since, but that one weekend she decides to go away. I have nothing to do. I mean, normally we have workshops on the weekend. I get together with friends or we're doing something to get one weekend. This is the only weekend I have space. I get this text on a Friday afternoon from my friend, open heart, sacrament community, open house. And this long obtuse paragraph, I have no idea what he's saying, but I look at the address and it's seven blocks from where I live in Manhattan. So I'm like, I ain't got anything else to do. If this is supposed to be a spiritual gathering, I should know some people there. Cause I'm hip deep in the spiritual community Manhattan for years now. I show up, he's not even there. I see all these people, nobody I know, which immediately got my attention because I know like everyone in the spiritual community in Manhattan, who are these people? I meet the apartment. It was, who is the facilitator? And then my friend finally shows up and I'm like, what gives? And he goes, well, you know, you heard of ayahuasca and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. People have been trying to get me to do that for the last three or four years, puking all night long in a bucket is not my idea of a spiritual experience. And he's like, no, no, no. What we do as much gentler. I think you'll really like it. Hey, we're doing a ceremony tomorrow in Brooklyn. Why don't you come? And I'm like, you know, thanks, but no thanks. Because by that point I've studied in mystery schools, spiritual teachers, energy healers, and everyone was pretty negative on the idea of using substances. So, but I leave and I'm walking the seven blocks back to my apartment and I'm thinking to myself, you know what? This is the one weekend in the entire year. I actually have space to say yes. I mean, I can try this once once isn't going to damage my soul for all eternity. And if I don't like it, I never have to see any of these people again because I didn't know anybody except my friend Alex. So I call him up the next morning. I say, okay, I'll go. And so I went and I had a huge experience that set me on this path 12 years ago now. I love that. And what I also love, Sam, just in terms of is this idea of exploring it. And I have, I think one of my greatest lessons, we're actually talking about this in Denver a couple of days ago. There's a lot of words that I'm just going to summarize. It's like through the personal development work that I did for so many years, I got very handy and talented and skilled at utilizing a particular frame of reference for my life, for my world, and for how things are going to go. And it led to both certainty and righteousness. Which, by the way, worked pretty goddamn well for me in almost every aspect of my life up until 15 years into my marriage. But it's so funny because I see it so clearly now of people who are certain self-righteous or afraid, all of which is fine. I've been there. But I love your view of just, listen, I'm just going to try it. And that's my whole standard. I was like, listen, you don't know until you try. And if you're not going to try it, and you haven't had the experience, then you can't bullshit yourself around what this is. And can I lean in on this just for a moment? Because it's one of my pet peeves. So I used to be very polite, which might be hard to believe. But I used to be very polite at the beginning of this psychedelic work, where people would say, oh, I can get to that state through meditation. I don't learn that stuff. And I used to say, well, that's nice for you. And now I'm just at the spot of it's like, well, actually, just to be perfectly clear about this, you can get to an altered state through meditation. And by the way, if you can do that, that's spectacular for you. What you can't do is get your amygdala to go and have a holiday, which there's only one scientifically proven product on planet Earth that actually does that, which is this thing called MDMA. So let's just be clear that we're not talking about the same thing. The altered states are the same. However, this point is different, and you can't do that. So if you'd like to have the experience, we can talk about it afterwards, then we can do that. But let's just be very clear that these two things are not the same. I'm just getting more and more pointed about what is and what isn't the same for folks. And they don't need to change in any way, shape, or form. But I'm just not willing to have the conversations around ignorance, assumption, and projection any longer. Right, right. Yeah, absolutely. Because there are a lot of assumptions, there are a lot of projections around this work. And, you know, to me, what I see a lot sometimes is fear of the unknown. Because until you've had the experience, it's very much an unknown. And even once you've had the experience, you're never going to have the same experience twice. So every experience is a new unknown. So many people are so afraid of the unknown. And they're so afraid of just surrendering and being present to whatever is going to be. And so I've learned over my last 12 years is that nobody's going to show up before they're ready. If it's not their time, it's not their time. And if it is their time, wild horses are not going to be able to keep them away. Love that. Yeah. So I want to hear this question now. Let's let's handle this question when we come back from break, because we're going to go to break in just a minute. But before we go to break, I just wanted to ask you one question. There's a big difference between just trying and engaging in something like MDMA. And then becoming a real advocate for it, offering it to people and stuff. What was it that got you to sort of tip over the edge and say, wow, not only is this helped me, but like, I got to share this with everyone? Yeah, that's a great question. How long do we have to answer this question? It's okay. The breaks are malleable. Okay. Well, quite honestly, if you had told me five years ago that we'd be doing this professionally, I would have said you fell and hit your head. And that's too bad for you. Like, it was not on our radar in any way, shape or form. So what transpired for us was, I go and have that transformational experience. It's very clear to me about what is necessary. It was like a and I know you're in New York, it was like a Broadway spotlight shone upon me, my life and the wall that had been built between Corey and I. And every brick of that wall had a little excuse on it. It's like, well, you know, sex always dies after 20 years. I said I do and therefore I'm stuck forever. It's all right if you're not happy. Most people aren't. All these justifications about the ---- show that we had developed. And it was just perfectly clear. I got three messages. Well, actually, one message and three to do's on that journey. And message one was, this is about taking care of yourself and living your life. So I was message one. And then the three to do's was lose weight, fix my teeth, grow my hair, all self care things I'd let fall away as we've been leading parallel lives. I've been taking care of everything else. And that's your task. Now, if there was no question about it, there was it was cellular certainty is the best way I could describe it. So came home a couple of days later, have the conversation with Corey and say, listen, this is what's going to happen. And for the first time in our negotiation of trying to figure our stuff out, this isn't a you'll do this and I'll do this and then we'll do this. And then you'll do this and I'll do this and we'll do this. This was I'm doing this. I love you and I'd love for you to come along. And I expect that you can't given how much we've been struggling and trying. And you know what? It's OK. You don't need to do a damn thing. And that's what's going to happen. So we have that sort of talk that was like March 3rd or 4th of 2020. And of course, the world shuts down March 13th of 2020. And at the time, we're actually both pretty happy. It's like, well, the good news is we got a couple of weeks to talk about this. That couple of weeks turned into a couple of years, which was beautiful, by the way, because we spoke for thousands of hours. With the assistance of at that stage, again, it was only mushrooms, mushrooms at the beginning, a little bit of cannabis. And I think about a year later, we got our hands on LSD. And then it wasn't MDMA for a while. Anyway, so we were experimenting, just trying to drop the barriers to have meaningful conversations. And then we created this thing that we called our ritual adventures, which was every six weeks, we would go through this process of intentional connection, five day lead up a night at a hotel by the integration process that we lived quite literally for two years. Now in that time, together, we lose 60 pounds, we transform our sex life, we become better parents, we're having more fun, we have the experience of being the most loved and loving of our entire lives. And occasionally, of course, it's COVID and all that ----. So we're posting some stuff on Facebook and people see us because there's about 40,000 people in our world that know who we are based on the other work. And literally during COVID, Sam, people would come to our door, which in Canada was illegal, you can't do that. Come to our door and say, we live right by this dog park. So we'd walk their dogs and they'll come out and was like, what are you doing? And can you help us? And at that stage of the game, we got to the spot where we were really committed. And it's like, listen, we're just trying to stay married at this stage and we don't ******* know how to help you. And we don't. So that happened for a long while. And then of course, as we were getting more solid and stronger, it was like, we'd be on a journey. It's like, this couple that we love, what about them? What does make a difference for them? And so that went on for a while. And then we ultimately decided to go and get certified. So we went and did an underground training two years mainly to get safe supply to medicine, because we knew that we were going to continue for ourselves and to just see if we learn more about this, could what we experienced be replicated? So we went and did the training in August of 22 and left there going, we're going to beta test our idea. Um, and that beta test has turned into an entire business that certifies guides that we do a bunch of couples work. We do a bunch of individual work. We serve a variety of medicines based on intention and support. Um, but good, good Lord. I, I absolutely would have bet my life. We would never be doing this never, but never seemed to be much shorter time than I thought. Yeah. Funny how that works, isn't it? All right. Let's take a quick break. Um, when we come back, we'll, uh, answer that question that someone on YouTube posted and then, uh, we'll continue the conversation. All right. Awesome. Awesome. So everyone please stay tuned. You're listening to the Conscious Consultant Hour Awakening Humanity. We do this every Wednesday, 12 noon to 1 PM Eastern time, right here on talkradio.nyc and all over social media. And we'll be right back with our guest Jay Fassett in just a moment. Are you a spiritual seeker? Are you interested in expanded states of reality? I'm Sam Liebowitz, your Conscious Consultant and on my show, the Conscious Consultant Hour Awakening Humanity, we will dive into these topics with authors, teachers, researchers, and guides. Tune in at our new time, Wednesdays at 12 noon Eastern time. That's the Conscious Consultant Hour, Wednesdays, 12 noon Eastern on talkradio.nyc. You're listening to talkradio.nyc. Uplift, educate, empower. And welcome back to the Conscious Consultant Hour Awakening Humanity. So we got a question on YouTube from Create901-something who said, do you guys do psychedelics? I want to try DMT. Well, the title of this episode is Myths and Magic of the Psychedelic Revolution. So yes, we are talking about psychedelics. But MDMA, you see, we're talking a lot about MDMA and technically MDMA is an intactogen, which falls under psychedelics, but it's not the traditional, you know, psychedelics, my understanding is the traditional psychedelics, things like LSD, ayahuasca, DMT, various forms of DMT, they're very visual, they're very, not just mind altering, but they're very much a visual and an energetic state. Whereas things like MDMA are intactogens, which are more about the feelings and not really about the visuals, it's more about the feeling essence of it. However, they're very closely intertwined. And as you mentioned, like you did, you know, mushrooms are in there and other things. I'm curious about what kind of reaction you initially got from people when you started offering this because it was something, I mean, I guess not necessarily, but kind of different from what people had known you from before. So when people started to find out that you were offering this and doing this, like, were people supportive? Were they shocked? Were they upset? You know, I'm just curious, would someone in your kind of position when you made that transition, what it was like? A little bit all over the map, you know, is the honest goodness truth. Most of the folks who have done work with us, at least in the beginning, were all folks that had worked with us for decades prior. So, and what we would hear time and again, it's like, listen, I've been curious about this, but there's absolutely been nobody that I've trusted enough to actually take the lead because it's you and Corey, we're in. So we heard that more than any other single determining factor of, you know, why now? Why psychedelics? Why us? It was like, I can trust you. I've been curious. I'm going to try it. So that absolutely. But there were also at the same time, there were folks who pulled away. You know, I spent, you know, I don't know, better part of 20 years speaking on stages. I mean, in terms of the U.S., just for clarity, we're all on the same page. I've spent like 35 years speaking on stages, but really it was only the last 15, maybe 17 years in the U.S. So, but, you know, I've had people ask me, say, hey, would you come and speak about X, but you can't talk about psychedelics? I'm like, no. So I talk about what I talk about or we don't. And it's like, well, my audience is, it's like, I don't care about your audience. This is, and I don't mean that in a mean way. It's just that I am not going to filter or stop talking about what has been the most meaningful experience in my entire life, because you think that they might not like it. It's like, they're welcome to not like it. And it's not, not going to be said. So anyway, so it's cost me some stages. I absolutely know that there are some folks in our, in our world that have pulled back and withdrawn a little bit and that's okay. I like, I'm so fine with it. It's, it is not for everyone by any stretch of the imagination. We all need to make our own choices. And the other side of it, and this has always been my, my view, every business I have ever built has been about something that I've experienced that made a meaningful difference in my life. That then I tried to codify and build something that was significant, meaningful, and then see if it helped other folks. And that has never changed. Every single business I have ever built has been that and same is true for psychedelics. And, and you're real relatively public and you're pretty active, even though still the things are relatively illegal in Canada. There's still, I mean, certain States here in the United States, they're legal, but federally things are still illegal. Why are you so public? Well, that's a good question. For the same reason I was just talking about. So here's, and I'm going to get on my little soapbox for a brief in short, the legal system, the political system, the medical system is about 25 years behind the laws, the structures and the execution of them are outdated, inappropriate, and actually straight out freaking harmful. So there isn't a much, there isn't a whole bunch of time or space for a bunch of what I'm going to call chicken ----. People say, Hey, we do psychedelics, but don't tell anyone because all those people who actually could use it. Oh, that could be dangerous. Like that's bullshit. Like I just, it's inappropriate for the stand in the place that we are in humanity right now. Psychedelics has a capacity to transform all three of those arenas, political arena, legal arena, medical arena. And when I say medical, that of course includes health, mental and physical health. So I'm just unwilling to be a chicken ---- about it because it's important. And that doesn't mean that that doesn't come with some risks because it obviously does risk. So for us, uh, you know, and Corey and I have had more hours of conversation on this than you can shake a stick at because, um, it, because of the risk, I mean, simply put. So for us, we are very transparent, very, uh, loud. And we say anywhere and everywhere, all the time, we are psychedelic advocates, educators, and guys. And if anyone wants to have an intelligent conversation about the psychedelics and what it means and how it we would love, love, love to have that. Um, and then if somebody wants to, wants to actually do something with us, that's where we get pretty damn careful and cautious about who we are, where he came from, what the referral is, what the process is, how that's all going to unfold and all the rest. So it's, this is too important and too significant to frankly be a chicken ---- about. And if my stand is, and this is my invitation to anyone who's out there doing good work in this world is if you're, if you are committed to this, if this has made a difference in your life, then you need to be more noisy about it. And I'm not saying being safe, but noisy. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. I get it. And, and, and actually to that point, you've created a manifesto, haven't you? We have the functional psychedelics manifesto. And, uh, and I'm, I'm pretty proud of it. And, and, you know, folks, the gentleman or the person, I guess that wants to try it, uh, five MEO, or I don't even know if it's five minutes. I'm curious. Did he mean NMDMT or did he mean five MEO DMT? I'm, I'm curious. Those are, are interesting questions because they're pretty different experiences. Um, or for that matter, for ACO DMT, like there's, there's a lot of variations in this, in this world. Um, so the, the manifesto really came as a stand over time where Corey and I created this thing called the connection experience, which, and by the way, you keep referencing MDMA. We actually use a very unique medicine stack that includes that, but it is not exclusively that. Uh, so, so, um, so I, I just want to broaden that because we use a very rare and beautiful attunement medicine that, um, you know, in, in our community of about 400 couples, and it's the favorite of 440 of them, everyone loves it. Um, anyway, so going back to, to this thing is that we would talk about the connection experience and, and people who had a little bit of knowledge around psychedelics would go, Oh, so you're doing couples ceremonies. I was like, no, no, no, we're not. That's definitely. Oh, okay. I know. Now I know what it is. It's a, Oh, you're doing, you're doing, um, couples therapy. It's like, we are not qualified let us be perfectly clear about that. And they're like, so well then if it's not those two things, cause lots of folks think that's all there is, um, what the hell are you doing? And so we spent an important amount of time trying to, uh, describe these, uh, elements. And, um, and ultimately I just, I wrote this, I, this functional psychedelics manifesto to sort of view it. If you were to think of it, you know, the way in which psychedelics have been used, uh, traditionally. So most folks are familiar with therapy, familiar with ceremony. So pretty clinical North American based all the rest of it. Ceremony is pretty, uh, indigenous has some history, has some spiritual grounding to it often done in the jungle. Like, you know, I'm, I'm exaggerating for emphasis here, but that's quite a range, but there are two other very important, uh, traditional uses of, of psychedelics as well. One of which is I'm going to call it the top evolutionary and evolutionary is, is kind of like the cycle. Not, you know, if there's a new, if there's a new molecule, I'd like to meet it. I want to dance and I want to play at the fringe of my consciousness at this bridge between, um, the dual and the non-dual space. I want to know the nature of the interconnectedness of the universe. Like that's the evolutionary. I want, I'm an explorer and I want to discover. Uh, and then at the bottom, we'll call it recreational and recreational. And, and just to be clear, Cory and I aren't really the big recreational folks. That's not our sort of way in the world, but the word recreation quite literally breaks down to re creation. It has a time, it has a place, it has, it has meaning, it has significance. Um, so if you were to think in the middle where a protocol and a process borrows intentionally, deliberately, and intelligently from each of those four into a protocol and a process that identifies, let's just call it a symptom or a problem or a challenge or a conundrum. And the protocol solves that problem. So in our case, for the connection experience, the problem is the drift that North American busy couples experience in their relationship that causes them difficulty and ends relationships and causes separation and heartache. So our protocol borrows from all four of those pieces. It's a functional psychedelic protocol and it stops the drift and moves them together because they get to see one another as their true selves and heal in the presence of the person that loves them most in the universe and that they love most in the universe. That's functional psychedelics. So I created an entire manifest around what it actually means and why it's different. I just wanted to, to, to dig in on the term a little bit. What do you mean by functional psychedelics? Like I get that the protocol, but what do you mean by functional? Well, functional in that. So I'm going to go on a bit of a left turn to try and address this. And so I was, since I've been traveling and talking about all those sorts of things, I've been in a bunch of different spaces and masterminds and presentation, all those sorts of things where somebody who happens to be a mushroom certified mushroom guide or a somebody down through lineages, somebody says, I'm like, Oh, you should do mushrooms. And it's like, and I'm like, Oh, how would you know? Like the, the person is expressing curiosity, but we don't know their intention. We don't know their health. We don't know what their problem is. We don't have like back the hell up is, you know, so I, so this, this idea of mushrooms being a panacea that can help with almost everything, which by the way, maybe true, which by the way, maybe wide variety of mushrooms, like, like people talk about mushrooms, like it's one thing. There are 300 different strains of psilocybin. So it's not just one thing. The same as San Pedro. Okay. So we have a San Pedro micro dosing line and like there's San Pedro. That is quite hard opening the San Pedro. That's quite activating the San Pedro. That's quite sedative, sedative. So anyway, but you're exactly right. That there, it is not one thing. And so, so when I say functional, what I mean is this, is that we, as human beings are always dealing with a series of symptoms or a series of problems and our stand and what we train our guides and our community to work with is let's identify what they're struggling with and then design a protocol and a medicine profile and a medicine stack to solve that problem. So that's what I mean by function. So this isn't going to be some, you know, wild, broad piece. It's like, listen, if you're a couple experiencing the drift and you would like to have more intimate connections, sexual expression and freedom and love in your relationship, this protocol will functionally help with that. And we guarantee it full stop. So that's what functional means is there is something going on that you must address. No, I loved your opening by the way. Letting the story go. Do you know Trevor Hall? Yes, I know. Okay. So, so let the old story. I love his music. Yeah. Yeah. So, so the, the, that story of you've got to let the old story go. So frankly, there is when, when we're attached in a, what I'm going to call a loop or a processing or a hook or a schema or however you want to think about it, but there's a particular process to help break those pieces. And that would be an example of functional psychedelics as well. So that's what functional means is that it, it is, it meets people where they're at, if they can articulate what they're design, market, deliver, test all these pieces, processes that meet clients where they're at. And this is where it's different than it's like, Oh, you should do mushrooms. Well, I'm not sure that's true, which is, but, Oh, I have a relationship challenge and we're still in love and we're still fundamentally committed. And I'm looking for something that helps us put down the coping and get back to creation that we got. Does that make sense? Yep. Gotcha. A hundred percent, but it brings to mind sort of a different question now of, do you view working with psychedelics as purely healing work or is this spiritual work or is it some kind of a blend or something different? Yes. Including with something different, you know, and, and I have no idea if we've had time to share the functional psychedelics manifesto, but it is all of the above and more the, the aim of the functional psychedelics manifesto is to help people have a threshold and an understanding and a safe container within which to engage. And we might meet them for the first time at this idea of my wife and I are in love. We've got three kids under 10 and I buried my dad and my business is in trouble and we just need to get on the same page again. We got you. And from that process, then it's like, oh my goodness, we're so much more powerful and so much more whole and so much more complete. And we have so much more capacity when this is true. So they continue with us. And inevitably what happens is like, wait a second, next step isn't a we thing. It's a me thing. So then we ended up in a personal journey that has a custom medicine stack with a custom intention, with a custom process, with a custom integration process, all of those pieces. So it's it's everything and more, but what I, what I think the most important part of why I believe the greatest impact and influence and change that we can make on planet earth is to meet folks where they're at with the symptoms of the problems they're, they're facing with a real freaking solution that works, not SSRIs that will numb you for the next 17 years. So you decided to do something else, but with a solution that actually works. And from there, the universe opens. Things are shifting and changing now very rapidly. They're becoming more and more mainstream, more and more acceptable. Do you have any concerns about the quote unquote mainstreaming of psychedelics? Yes. I mean, it's the short answer. I'll just tell you a brief story because it's funny and makes us look stupid. When Corey and I decided to go get certified, our ignorance was epic. And it's the same old, same old of we don't know what we don't know. So when we decided to go get certified, we'd been experimenting for two years. We'd done so actually pretty wisely. We'd had maybe two lumpy experiences. And, you know, in our world, say, well, we've sort of done the psychedelics. We've done all sorts of mushrooms. We've done LSD. We've done MDMA. We've done 3MNC. I think we've got a pretty good handle on it. We should go. And we get there. And then they start talking about all of these compounds. We're like, what's that? What's that? What's that? What the hell is that? We just couldn't fathom our cluelessness. It's the truth. And so going back to this mainstreaming, folks underestimate the power. And this, by the way, was us. So I'm not trying to make you wrong or be all judgmental in those sorts of things. Folks underestimate the power, the strength, the possibility and the difficulty that can unfold with the use of psychedelics, which is why education, support, guides, container, set and setting, all those things are just so important. And as things mainstream and as AI tells you, you'll be fine. It has danger. And can I add one other thing? So you were talking about the distinction between and pathogens and attacks. So here's how we think about this. Three different categories generally, and this is Peyton with a broad brush, but the classics, exactly as you said, so that's LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, peyote, ayahuasca. Those are, those all primarily are classics and they are non-specific amplifiers. So whatever's going on physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, that is happening, can and will get magnified. And sometimes that's humor and fun. And sometimes that is horror and trauma and both happen. And if you ever heard somebody say they had a bad trip, it's almost exclusively in the domain of classics. You know, this prevail and select, just don't play with those things. Like it's work. And then we call them in pathogens and in tacticians, just because of the feelings and the touch and all sorts of things. And that MDMA, MDA, 2C-B, 2MMC, 3MMC, 4MMC, sassafras, all of those work primarily on releasing serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine in different ways and varieties and leads to heart opening, amygdala taking a bit of a vacation, presencing in the body. You're frankly more, you're not going off on a hallucinogenic adventure. You're sort of more here. But the dangers are if the amygdala goes offline, trauma and repression and those sorts of things that have gone on for literally everyone in our world, they don't present themselves, which is why, again, you also need some support there. And then the third part are dissociatives. So think salvia divinorum, nitrous oxide, ketamine, all those sorts of things, 5-MeO, depending on dose, they take you away. So calling all of those things psychedelics is a little bit nutty. Right, right, right. Yeah. The way I've been trained is to think of it in terms of heart, body, mind, and spirit. So there are some that cross over and some of the classics most of them are spirit, but they can also be mind. They can also be heart. They can also be body. But I find that a useful way for me to think about it just because it also appeals to my sort of Western mystical training of earth, air, fire, and water and the four archetypal elements and all of that. We just got a couple of minutes left. For somebody who's like listening to this, and maybe they've been curious, and maybe there's something's been said in this conversation that's got them to be like, you know what, I think I'm ready to try. I think I might do something. What would be your word of advice to them? That's a great question. I think get clear about what you want to either experience, release, accept, create. So get clear about why you're doing it. That is step one. And by the way, this can be depending on your consciousness. To experiment with yourself is also a reasonable intention. It's not as deep as what I generally like, but we can play with that too. So that's on the table. But then after that, it is to find a guide who you trust. We actually have a guide, like a guide of how to choose a guide. And the thing that I want people to understand is that you are trusting this person with your body, with your mind, and with your soul. And in those altered states, your safety is paramount. And straight up, this space attracts a bunch of wackadoodles. This space attracts a bunch of predators. And altered states can be the most beautiful thing in the entire universe, and they can be the most dangerous thing in the entire universe. So here's what you got to decide. The person you're working with is like, would I send my daughter to them? Would I send my mother to them? Can I trust them with my heart, my mind, and my soul? Because all three of those things are going to be exposed. And only when you get a hell yes, do you go play with psychedelics. Beautifully said. Thank you so much, Jay. That was great. Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it there. If people want to reach out to you, learn more about you, learn about your Connection Experience, where would they go? How do they find you? So the easiest is probably the ConnectionExperience.love. The ConnectionExperience.love. And there's also our brand new brand, which is Cindeo, which stands for Connect. CindeoNow.com. And we're just in the middle of getting that whole umbrella brand, which is Igniting Human Connection Within, Between, and Beyond, is our catchphrase. And we'd love to support and help you make a decision about who's right. And we, honest to goodness, don't care if it's us. But we'll equip you to make a decision that you go, ah, this is it. Ta-da. That's who we want you to work with. Beautiful. And how do you spell that, Cindeo? Cindeo. S-Y-N-D-E-O. S-Y-N-D-E-O-N-O-W.com. Beautiful. Beautiful. Jay, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to come on my show today. It's a pleasure reconnecting with you and having a truly balanced conversation around all of this. Very cool. Thank you for having me. I deeply appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. And of course, thank you, my loyal listeners, for tuning in each week. Without you, there is no show. And don't forget, if you did miss any part of today's show, you can always catch the replay on talkradio.nyc and all over social media and on your favorite podcasting platforms. Take care, everyone. We will talk to you all next week.