The Story Behind Panchayat, the Art of Storytelling: TVF President Vijay Koshy on Chai With Manju

And now, welcome to Chai with Manju, with your host, Dr. Manju Sheth. Hello and welcome to Chai with Manju. We are honored to have a very special guest from India visiting us today. Vijay Koshi, president of TVF, The Viral Fever, one of the leading and most prestigious digital entertainment studios in India. This is the studio also behind some fabulous shows like Gulak, Pictures, Roommates, and my personal favorite, Panchayat. Let's meet him. Hello, Vijayji. Thank you. It's such an honor to have you with us and welcome to Boston. Thank you so much. It's my first time in Boston and I'm quite loving it. And it's an honor and privilege to be here in the studio with you. What have you seen in Boston so far? I have seen Ralph Waldo Emerson's house. I have seen the cabin of David Thoreau. I have seen the bridge where the first shots were fired and I walked around a lot of interesting places around here and I've been to Texas, I've been to California, but the amount of history and culture this place has, absolutely fascinating. So you have to keep coming back. Yes. So, so you are one of the, you are the president of India's one of the leading and most respected organization, as we mentioned, and where they tend to focus a lot on stories. So talking about stories, we want to know what is your story, where did you grow up and what were the things that influenced you to lead you up to leading an organization which has become like such a cultural phenomenon in India? So my story is nothing unique. It's like every average Indian out there where parents have very high expectations. They want you to be an engineer or a doctor or one of those regular professions. I was never good at academics. So thankfully, I didn't have to get into any of these fields. But I was always, at a very young age, my father had got us to watch a lot of interesting content. Okay. When all my friends at 10-12 years were watching commercial cinema, my father would take me to theaters and get us to watch art movies from Kerala. Trust me, at that point in time, it is a traumatizing experience. But I think those things actually left a thing of appreciation for good content, you know, so that left a mark. God bless his soul for doing that. And I then got into advertising. I spent a good 10 years with some very, very big leading agencies. I was managing one of the biggest clients in the country, which is Unilever at the end of my career. And while I was kind of doing that, I have always been a very restless person. I always want to try out new things. It's always very curious. And at that point in time, I said, hey, the satellite TV explosion had happened, Saa TV had come in with a lot of channels, Sony had begun, Zee was already the leader there. At that point in time, I got a break there and I spent time there. We worked with Channel V, which was one of the leading music channels in the country. Fun fact is, I was part of the first non-fiction show that happened in India, which was called Coke V Popstars. Oh, okay. It was actually a hunt for finding out a bunch of talented young musicians, singers, and we did a hunt across the country. So kind of pioneer of sorts in that sense. Trailblazer. Yeah. It was quite a learning experience because this is something that the country had never seen before. And from there on, I moved to ESPN and we did another interesting thing called Harsha Ki Koch. I was always in this thing that we should try out something new, try out something new. But digital was something that had come and I was very fascinated by that whole thing. But just that fear of the unknown was there, saying, I don't know much about digital. So that stopped me from taking the plunge back in the day. I guess to everything, there is a time. But around 2015 is when I said, it's now or never. And at that point in time, a very dear friend of mine in Google connected me to Arunabh Kumar, who is the founder of TVF. The average age of TVF at that point in time and even now is around 25. So I walk in this ripe old age of 45 and it's like, I would even say veteran is too kind of word to use for a 45 year old in our industry. But Arunabh Kumar gave me an opportunity saying, hey, give it a shot because I think he saw that this guy can bring in some experience of the media world and that will be helpful as far as their journey of storytelling is concerned. Because there are a bunch of engineers, all of them from IIT, who left their high paying jobs and were fascinated, like you are a qualified doctor for so many years, but still the whole passion of storytelling is there. They needed someone who could enable them to tell those stories. And he took a punt on me. God bless him for doing that. And the rest is history. The rest is history. And here I am. So the Pradhana Panchayat. And I can go on record that even if they don't pay me a single rupee or any salary or any incentives, I'll happily work for free. That's the amount of joy that you get to do. So a lot of people congratulate me saying Vijay, great work and amazing stuff you have done. I have done nothing. It's a bunch of writers, it's a bunch of directors, it's a bunch of editors, it's a bunch of creative producers. They have done the magic. I'm just happy to serve them. So that's a joy that I get. So, you know, what I like about the TVF shows is that the stories are very authentic and very relatable. And then you take characters and these actors who most of us can identify with, but they're not always big stars with few exceptions. So tell me, what is your process like with something like Panchayat lands on your desk? OK, how do you decide that that is the story that TVF is going to pick it up? What is the process? How do you select? How do you pick the actors and how long does it take for you from the inception to us seeing it on prime television? So share that process with us. OK, so it's like when you prepare a dinner of sorts, the more you marinate, the better the taste that you finally get. Right. But everything begins with the writing. It's we write, we rewrite and we keep going back. We narrate. Lots of people get feedback. We then absorb the feedback and then the team works on it. And we are our harshest critics ourselves. So what you see is almost eight, ten rounds of narration and refinement. And it's like building a house. If you have a strong foundation, then the house is likely to survive. And that's what we believe that the writing is what we celebrate writers the most. That is wonderful to hear. Yeah. And I don't know if you've seen this documentary on prime video where Javed Akhtar and Salim Khan. Yes, I have. That one I have seen. Back in the day, they were writers and they commanded as much premium pricing and positioning as much as the A.L.S. Sahiroj. They were the first ones to do that. They were the first one. Yeah. And I don't know where what happened. I think somewhere we lost the way and we got into. I'm not getting into why and how, but it's an evolution. But for us, we will always begin to celebrate with the writers. And that's the most important part. Then, of course, the showrunners involved, the directors involved, all of them are part of that whole process. There's a very senior bunch who is also mentoring, who's actually going through every single piece of content, every single piece of writing that's happening. So that's largely the process that we follow as far as casting is concerned. For us, the social media following or how big the star is, all is immaterial. For us, what is his or her command on the craft? How relatable or how well do they fit into the character that we have? You'll be amazed that some of our shows, the secondary, so-called secondary characters, seem to be more popular. Yes, that is true, I've seen that. In Panchayat, you'll have Panrakas and Binod being more popular than some of the main lead. Prahlad Shah and Vikas and, of course, Kranti Devi, they are the ones who have more popularity. I mean, they're not characters you love immediately, but we all know of Panrakas in our life. I think they grow on you. Yeah, they grow on you. And Durgesh Kumar, who plays Panrakas, has been in the industry for 10 odd years. He's been in so many movies and so many shows, but nobody never noticed him. But the characters that we make are very, very relatable. And I think that's the difference that we make. Also, a lot of our cast, we pick from theatre. You know, theatre doesn't give you a second chance. You have to be very, very good at what you're doing. And that has to come with a level of practice, a level of dedication, a level of commitment. And Geetanjali Kulkarni ma'am, she's from the theatre background. Jameel Khan sir, he's from a theatre background. Amrita Subash is from a theatre background. So a lot of these talented actors, actresses all come from that background. And that has also helped us in this whole process. And I think what I like about your shows is that, you know, you are rediscovering these actors. We have seen them, you know, when you see them, oh, I know him. But then you are giving them a new profile. And because, like I said, Panchayat is my favourite and you are the Pradhan. As was on the cover of a very famous magazine. Economic Times. Yeah. So, you know, because I like that it is comedy. Then there is a social cause. But you're not preaching anywhere. And sometimes it amazes me that, you know, the Phule Radha village, it's about nothing, if you see the story. But it's there is one episode, wo kura wo kursi ko lekar hai. Right. And the whole episode comes out. So usme you've brought the social cause, ki jo jamai aata hai, uske saath kaise treat karte hain, you've just, how you from kursi se lekar aap gaon ki shaadi tak kaise leke gaye ho, it's just amazing to me. You know, when you mentioned about kursi, Damad is one of the most popular characters. He's there in only season one and he's there hardly for any time. But his whole character, the way it comes across, because we all know a Damad like that, who is quite an irritating fellow and his expectations are very high. And that one famous dialogue, which is gajab bejjati hai, aur aasu tapag rahe hain saheb. In fact, he's not even said it. It's just somebody has said it around him. But when he comes out, he gets mocked because that's the fan following. That was who coined that gajab bejjati hai. Oh, it's the writer who has to be credited. In fact, a lot of our good work, whether it's Pitcher, whether it's Prominent, Roommates back in the day or Tripling. I mean, Tripling has got Chandan, Chanchal, Chitwan. I mean, we grew up with that song and the characters are, it's so sweet. I mean, I don't know if you've, every time I see the trailer of Tripling, which is about a bunch of siblings who go out on a road trip, I feel how I wish I could also do that with my brothers. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening because they're all in different parts of the world and occupied with our own daily routines and requirements. But those are things that it's either relatable or you say, hey, even I had that feeling, even I wanted to do something like that. And I think that's what connects. What has also happened is I must point out that the audiences have become more intelligent. Their level of expectations have gone up. They don't want the standard one song in Switzerland, then three item songs and some action sequences. I mean, that was very OK in the 90s, but the audiences now have opened up to worldwide shows, worldwide content. Internet has really opened up everything. So now they know they're not going to be in some ways taken for a ride. OTT especially is an eye opener. Absolutely. Absolutely. That tells you the truth, right? Because that allows you to tell stories in a more relevant manner. We have that time to build the character, to develop it. But you know in the world where they are showing in OTT also and I watch some Pakistani soaps, also rich homes and all these, you know, palaces where people are living are rich. And then I remember when the pilot of Panchayat comes through and this guy has come to a village and the first scene comes, he goes to shake hands with the Pradhanji. Pradhanji, go to the bathroom, I'll go and wash my hands first. And I was like, am I watching a show about this? You know, about nothing. But it reminded me strangely about, you know, we were talking about Seinfeld, a show about nothing, but yet the simplicity of it totally gets you and it grows on you. We all have relatives like that. So, you know, fun fact is, we took almost four, five years to develop Panchayat. Like the same... Really? Four, five years? Yes, yes, yes. I mean, like they said, the marination, it's all about that. You have to write, rewrite, you have to keep enriching it all the time. So we took it to a lot of OTT platforms and none of them were convinced about it. They said, hey, who wants to watch a show about a village where nothing happens? Exactly what you said. Nothing happens. And thankfully, some good folks at Prime Video took a punt and decided to commission and the rest is history. I mean, Panchayat is easily, if not the biggest, one of the top three shows in the country. I must also tell you, Prime Minister Narendra Modi invited some of the Panchayat cast last week to Delhi. And he personally met up with Bandrakar Spinoza and Kranti Devi and he conveyed his affection for the show. That's the kind of love that our shows get. So as the president of this company and of course, the Pradhan, I'm going to call you Pradhan always. What is your vision for this company? So at this point in time, I think we have a fairly large output as far as India is concerned. And we have shows lined up right up to 2028, which are in development and execution, various stages of development and execution. But you know, one thing that we keep asking ourselves is that if the world can accept Squid Games from Korea, if the world can accept Money Heist from Spain, when will India be able to give their version of... For a fact, I know that Panchayat is being watched by people in South America, in the Middle East, and it's funny that you mention Brazil because there's somebody I know that who personally sent me a screenshot. Yeah, it's very popular. See, the thing is, our insights are so rich that it cuts across geographies, it cuts across languages, it cuts across communities and people are able to connect and relate to all of that. So if you were to ask me, what is our vision, we want to be able to tell the world that, hey, the soft power that India has. We've been telling stories for 5,000 years. I mean, probably maybe China or Egypt is closer to what we are. I mean, why aren't we able to tell our stories outside? Why are people not... The international level. Yeah, so we are not really... I mean, yes, we have a fairly decent presence and fan following in India, but we want to now take it to the rest of the world. And that's our single minded vision and focus that we want to try and do. And as one of the starting steps of that is we are building a base in this country. Of course, the diaspora loves us and the number of people who've been following us in Texas, in California, in Washington State, in New York, New Jersey. I just met the council general in New York and he was so happy. He said, y'all make panchayat. He refused to let go of my hand and he was so excited. And he said, you've taken me back to my childhood. So let me ask you this. Which show do you like to watch, which is not your show? In the Indian context, I've just watched the show called Rock. I've heard about that. Yeah, and I wept. I cried in the show. That's why I don't want to watch it. Yeah, I mean, I didn't... That's why I like your shows, because they're not very... They don't make you cry. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't try very hard. Normally, me and my wife sit and watch most of the shows together. But this one I didn't. But it's really heartbreaking and you must try and catch some parts of it. The creators have done an amazing job. What else? What are the other shows that... Freedom at Midnight is a show that I particularly like. I'm also a history buff. I mean, I told you so much about Boston history. So I'm forever looking at those things. So those are some of the shows that... See, for me, at the end of the day, the show has to tell me something. It has to teach me something. It has to make me feel something. So I think that's what these things have done. The one show that or the one movie that I recommend any aspiring creative person or a producer or anyone is a movie called The Offer. It's a show called The Offer. It's based on the making of Godfather. It's almost eight, ten episodes. And while we all admire and love the movie and the series three, Godfather one, two and three. You have to see the effort that went behind right from Mario Puzo to the director, to the producer, to the studio. I think it was Paramount, if I'm not mistaken. And the various challenges that they went from. I mean, Mario Puzo had never written a screenplay before. So he had just written a book. And and and who's the director? I'm just trying to recollect. But the whole journey is something that I recommend every aspiring creative person or who wants to get into this field. See this, that it's not all glamour. There's a lot of blood, sweat and tears that is happening behind the scene. Right from the mafia threatening to Francis Ford Coppola. That's the name that I was talking about. The mafia was threatening to bump this entire because it's the movie about the Italian mafia. Right. And then finally, they managed to convince them so much that one of their actors, one of their mafia people have actually played a role. The Luca Brasi's role is played by a mafia person. And and the Paramount studio was not happy with certain cast. They didn't want Al Pacino. They didn't want something else. So you're dealing with multiple problems that. Yeah. So so it's like a surgeon who is conducting an operation. You have to have that presence of mind. And the only thing is you are saving lives. We are not necessarily saving lives, but enriching them. Educating, educating them. So I think these are some of the shows that I particularly like. I want to watch Medical Dreams coming from your company. That would be very interesting. Thank you. I'm glad that you liked the show. It was an attempt from our side. In fact, I can probably tell you that TVF is by far the leader in any show that has a vocational journey. So we've made Kota Factory, which is about how students prepare for engineering. We've done half CA, which is about and half CA community itself. The CA community itself is so small. But we've done that. We've done Medical Dreams, which is about. Astronauts also, I think. Sorry? Astronauts also, there's something you were thinking about? OK, so we did Chandrayaan. But that was a show about India's journey into space. But I'm saying in the vocational journey, we've done a lot of such shows and Medical Dreams is our tribute to. And typically it's about underprivileged kids and how they are making it. Because, you know, the ambition and hunger of India Tier 2 and Tier 3 is incredible. I totally agree. India is going to move forward because of all of them. They are hunger. They are ambition too. I mean, most of us city folks are pretty chilled out. And we are hungry too. Yeah, that's why we came here to get a bigger bite. We are hungry. But, you know, they, yeah, because they've come from not so privileged backgrounds, they are forever striving and wanting to achieve more and more. The city bunch, I think, gets satisfied after a certain level. And that's and a lot of our, you won't believe it, almost 90% of our team comes from UP, Bihar, Rajasthan, MP and Tier 2, Tier 3 and all these places. And they have the very interesting stories to tell. And every life has a story. But I like that you tell the extraordinary stories of ordinary people. Absolutely. And that, I think, is your strength. Absolutely. You know, so there are two things which are definite in our lives. One is the the budget that you have and the other is the timeline. And that is something that we hold sacrosanct. And because of which we've been able to add in this year, I think we'll end up with almost 15 plus shows in one year. Most studios don't manage to do that in their lifetime. We're doing 15 shows now for that to happen. It's a level of efficiency and all of that needs to come in. So we are keen. We want to experiment as long as both sides are willing to collaborate. And you will see some potential collaborations happening with them. They bring a lot of value to any project. I think, but we've demonstrated the hard thing. We've we've done it with not so many A-listers. So hopefully the A-listers will get the confidence of working with us also. Now, on a fun note, what do you like to do for when you're having a good time? I know you're a history buff, but anything you like to do to just chill out and have fun? My idea of chill out and have fun is do nothing. Apart from doing this interview? Is to do nothing. I'm on my last mile of my journey as far as... Why do you keep saying that? You're making me feel so old for me, last part of the journey. No, so for me, life is just beginning because I've understood life now. No, so what I meant is I'm the average age in TBF still is 25. So I have to run with a bunch of very fresh, young legs all the time. So I have to keep pace with them. Sometimes the joke is I'm running so fast now that they are now struggling to keep pace with me. But yeah, I mean, music, movies, sports, travel, meet new people, have new experiences. And spend time with young folks because they're introducing me to new music. They're introducing me to new content and a lot of other interesting stuff. So I think you keep an open mind. Absolutely. And you keep learning. That's what I remember. I was once watching Javed Akhtar's interview and he said that as long as you feel young and you're willing to learn. And this is the best age for us to be. He said you get up every day and there's all these new things to learn. That didn't happen in our parents' generation. So my WhatsApp status says Ancora in Paro. In Latin, it means I'm still learning. And that's my 24-7, that's 365 days. That's what I believe and that's what I feel. And the day you stop learning is the day you are finished. And the day you stop enjoying life. Correct, correct. So that is something that I am constantly wanting to soak up and wanting to learn new things. And I will want to go down the rabbit hole for every possible thing and find out. It may not have an immediate return or it may not have a reward or it may not. But that's fine. Just learn something new. So there are a lot of, you know, Boston is a city of very, very talented people. We have a lot of good writers, lyricists, you know, actors. Any advice for them if they want to join, you know, want to come to your company and try their luck? Any advice for them? My prime, brutal advice to people is I hope you fail. I hope you fail many times because when you fail is when you learn. And that is when you then sharpen your skills and you fine tune. And some of our best talent, their first couple of projects have been absolute disasters. But that's when they go back to the drawing board and they learn how is it that they improve on the craft. And like I started this whole conversation saying that we are our harshest critics. Absolutely. But it's only someone who cares for you who will tell you. Like our parents would tell us something. And why did they say that? Maybe as kids, we never understood. But the reason they were telling us is that they care for us. So my whole thing is failure teaches you far more than... I totally agree. And one genuine well-wisher who shows you the mirror is much better than a room full of yes people. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And you have to, there is this whole thing about this is a passion thing and you will get a spark of inspiration. It's bullshit. You have to come, show up every day, you have to keep, whether you're a writer, whether you're a director, whether you're an editor, you have to come show up every day. This is not a flash in the pan. You have to come, keep trying, keep doing it, practice, practice, practice and do enough preparation. That's the only way. There's no shortcut in this. The more you practice is, and in any field, whether it's sports, whether it's... Medicine too. Yeah, and in our writing, directing, sales, I look up to the business. So the more people you reach, the more you engage with, the more you talk to them and the more you look into their eyes and you're able to convince them. And that's largely my... That's where authenticity comes into, if you do your job with honesty and authenticity. And again, coming back to the young generation, I think they have enough potential, they have enough, so just have to guide them. Correct. And occasionally, I mean, of course, there is the work-life balance and there's mental health and there's various such... Quota factor, they should focus on. Yeah, various such sensitive issues. We need the foggy touch, trust me. Yeah, so the old foggy get the experience, they get the wisdom. It's like a coach, right? A coach who's taking care of the team, so that's kind of the role that I play. So I prefer coach to an old foggy. Yes, coach sounds better. Yes, Pradhan sounds even better. I have to find a title for myself now. So what would you like your legacy to be? You know, it's funny that somebody asked me the other day, I said, if 100 years from now, people ask about what is the good content from India? And I hope shows like Panchayat and Pictures and Gram Chikitsale and Good Luck and Aspirin come up. That's the best legacy I could leave behind for me. That is what matters, nothing else. You've already created, yet I think there's more to come. There is, I mean, the cliched line, you ain't seen nothing yet. There is lots more coming from TVF. We've just got into movies. You'll see our first feature film coming this year end. That's with Balaji under the mentorship and guidance of Ekta Kapoor. And so that is happening. I saw an interview where you were with Ekta Kapoor also. I saw one of that. In her shadow, yes. She's a legend. You can only hope to learn and with some pearls of wisdom that she gives in. We've got into microdrama as a space. We've got into creation with AI. We've got into… AI is so big nowadays. Absolutely. And, you know, in our system also, a lot of us doubted, oh, AI has no place in storytelling and AI has no relevance and a lot of people were huffing and fuming about it. But AI is just another tool. You use it to deliver better results. That's about it. AI is not going to replace storytellers. But it's going to help you produce better output. And if you embrace it, the chances are you'll succeed faster. Instead of being blocking it and obstructing it and being negative about it. So you have to promise us with all your productions, you will come to Boston also. Share more stories. Make sure you reach out to our enriched community. I think they would love that. We want this to be, you know, your regular hub also. Thank you so much. We'll definitely look forward to it. Thank you so much for sharing your vision, your values. It was truly an honor to interview you. Thank you. Thank you so much.