WATCH Hillary Clinton And Czech Politician Get Into Testy Clash Over Gender Issues

Secretary Clinton, may I say thank you for that, and you've got several rounds of applause there, but I'm really interested in the line that our discussion is having already, which is a battle within the West between conservatism and liberalism, but I don't think we would be having this discussion at all if it weren't for some of the positions the US administration has taken, and let me take one of them, which is Ukraine, which is obviously at the centre of the Munich discussions in the past couple of years, and the line that the Trump administration has taken in trying to resolve the Ukraine conflict following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and its apparent thrust to accept Russia's territorial encroachment on Ukraine. And to you, I understand we've had various versions of it already, your characterisation of a clash between conservative and liberal values being at the heart of what's going on in the West, but in this particular one, a security issue, one that involves international law, whether countries still respect those international laws laid down after the Second World War, do you think that that brings a new rift within the West? Ukraine, the US's position? Yes, I am. I think that the Trump administration's position toward Ukraine is disgraceful. I think the effort to force Ukraine into a surrender deal with Putin is shameful. I think the effort that Putin and Trump are making to profit off the misery and death of the Ukrainian people is a historic error, and corrupt to the nth degree. So I believe Ukraine is fighting for our democracy and our values of freedom and civilisation on the front lines, losing thousands of people and having their country destroyed by one man's mania to control them, and I think Trump either doesn't understand or could care less about that suffering. So that's what I think. And so do you think he has destroyed the West, to go to our title? He has betrayed the West. He's betrayed human values. He's betrayed the NATO Charter, the Atlantic Charter, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. A lot of what has been done before to try to make sense of how difficult it is to restrain people who want unaccountable power. And none of us in this room, including all of us on this panel, would choose to live under a regime that was so unaccountable that it could act with impunity the way that Putin does, except that's who Trump is modelling himself as. I don't think we would be having this debate under that kind of regime, for sure. We will come back, I suspect, to the conservatism and liberalism clash within the West, but thank you for that. Peter, do you agree that the Trump administration's actions on Ukraine have produced a rift in the West? Well, first, I think you really don't like him. You know, that is absolutely true, but I really, not only do I not like him, I don't like him because of what he's doing to the United States and the world, and I think you should take a hard look at it if you think that there is something good that will come out of it. Okay, well, what I think Trump is doing in America, I think it is reaction, reaction, reaction for some policies that really went too far, too far from the regular people, too far from reality. So, you know, we saw the cancel culture, we saw the woke revolution, I don't agree with the gender revolution, the climate alarmism. Which gender? Women having their rights? No, let Peter go on. I think there are two genders, but some of us think that there is more than one or more than two, sorry, more than two gender. I think there is male and female, and the rest probably is a social construct. So, this is something that went too far. But does that justify selling out the people of Ukraine who are on the front lines dying to take their freedom and their two genders, if that's what you're worried about? Can I please finish my points? I'm sorry that it makes you nervous, I'm really sorry for that. Don't make me nervous, it makes me very happy. No, no, no, but seriously, can we let Peter finish, please? Can we let Peter finish, please? I have to say one more thing. You said that Ukraine fights for our future and for our freedom. I think first, Ukraine fights for Ukraine's future, Ukraine's freedom, Ukraine's sovereignty and independence. So, we should help them, of course, but what I see in some people in the West, they are trying to misuse help the Ukraine. But that's another question. I don't know, I don't know if Trump's administration is helping the Ukraine to stop the war. I believe, I believe that there is such an approach. I don't see any other strong player, strong geopolitical player who would be able to force Russia to stop killing the Ukrainian people and stop destroying their country. I don't see maybe China, but China makes nothing. I don't know if the pressure, if Trump is forcing Russia in the way that they will stop the war. I don't know. I only see that the only Americans right at the moment can make it. I see the dialogue. Do you think Europe could put more pressure on Russia, for example, by putting pressure on Turkey, by targeting the refineries of oil more, and so on? I think Europe also makes some pressure. We release sanctions. We do what we can. But I think the Russians, they probably don't care. When I visited Ukraine, I saw really the goodwill of all people in Ukraine. They were really united, united and willing to stop the war. But they keep inviting, there seem to be. They also made some steps that probably a year ago no one from them would allow to say or even suggest. Now they are ready to make some steps back. Now it's ball on the Russian side. But I don't see any goodwill on their side. So they must be forced.