The future of Warde Manuel

A lot of uncertainty at the University of Michigan right now thanks to a third-party investigation into the school's athletic culture. What are we talking about here? Well, the Board of Regents expected to meet later this week about that investigation and possibly release the findings of this report that they've paid $12 million for. Everyone is wondering, though, the athletic director. Will Ward-Manuel be out, gone as a result of this report and other issues at the University of Michigan? Joining me now, who is going to answer every question about the University of Michigan, U of M Booster attorney, graduate. Did you go there? I did, and I did graduate. Jerry Mason! All right, Jerry, always good to talk to you about Ward-Manuel and the University of Michigan. Here we go. Here we go. Let's do it. Well, I'm going to get rid of him. Is he going to be in or out? I think he stays, and if he leaves, he leaves on his own terms, and he's paid very handsomely, and there's a variety of reasons for that. Have you talked to him in the last week or two? We text back and forth, sure. About what? We text back and forth about cigars and wine and our families and when we're going to get together. Oh, you have talked to him. And you. Ward likes you. Oh, I do like him. I do like him. But is he worried a little bit? No. No, he's not. He's relaxing right now. The way athletics work is because it's all going to start with summer football camp. You push the snowball downhill, and it just starts rolling, and it becomes crazy. Then hockey season, then basketball season, right? So everybody's resting right now. Everybody's resting because, Charlie, when football hits, it's crazy. It is nuts. So everybody's resting. So this is the time, then, when everybody's going to be focusing on the athletic department at the University of Michigan and, in part, whether he should stay or he should go. Not necessarily. I think people are relaxing right now. Everybody's getting a break because when it starts, it's 100 hours a week or more, and it's seven days a week. All right, let's see if we can break this down. There's some kind of report by some law firm, Jenner & Block. Jenner & Block. Do you know about these people, Jenner & Block? Who are these people? They're a law firm out of Chicago who gets paid $12 million to do what I could have told them if they called me up. Why would the Board of Regents hire this firm out of Chicago, Jenner & Block, to do a report at all? I think they felt they had to do something, and they didn't know what they had to do. And when all else fails and you're on an academic board and you don't know what to do, ask for a study. So let's... No, really, come on. That's what they do. You know that. But there's two issues, I think, that this... You tell me if I'm wrong, but there's two issues that this Jenner & Block had to do. Number one, what is the culture of the athletic department? That's the first kind of issue. And then the other one is Sharone Moore. So I think we're done with Sharone Moore, right? I think we're done with Sharone Moore. I don't know why they're still talking about Sharone Moore. Let's wish them all the best. Well, one reason is because Paige Shriver just filed a Freedom of Information Act. That's one reason we're talking about that. That was our last week's show. That was our last week's show. I know. There's something new every week for us. Just give them the stuff. I don't understand why... Interesting development on that. They say... I was reading the articles today. Who's they? They say, according to the media, and the University of Michigan has said this through its spokesperson, that there is no written report from Jenner & Block. So aside from claiming attorney-client privilege, they're claiming that there's no written documentation and there were briefings provided. How interesting is that? $12 million for a briefing. What are we doing wrong, Charlie? Somebody was worried about the contents of the conclusions. So what are they going to do with the report? Apparently there isn't one. So what did they spend $12 million for? That's a great question that I would want to ask if I were a taxpayer. But here's the deal. Part of the University of Michigan money... I don't think... it's a public school. And the money... there's a lot of public money in this school. So I think it's FOIA-able, I think. I don't think they can wiggle out. They've got to give whatever they've got. And they should probably have some kind of a hearing to justify the $12 million, shouldn't they? This is what I think. I think that it's very, very expensive to send your children to U of M. And in all fairness, I've got two there right now. So I can tell you firsthand how expensive it is. How much is it? I think next year, with all the expenses, cars, clothes, apartments, this and that, you can blow a Hyundai down there all day long. Really? Per kid? No, for both. We get two for one. I got you. But it's very, very expensive. It's very expensive. But it's not all states expensive in Western. All the state schools are within a couple thousand bucks tuition. It's very, very expensive to educate your children. So as a parent, and I think all parents would be asking this question, where is my money going when I've got to pay all this money for tuition and all that? Okay, but the issue, though, is what did they get for this? Why do these regions need this report? I never understood it. Why do they need it? I don't think they needed it. I think it was an excuse or they did something to make it look like they were doing something. I don't know that the report was necessary. If it were me and I was in charge of asking for a report, I would have a company called Oliver Wyman come in and do what's called a POP. It's called Personnel Performance Organization. So it's People, Organization, Performance. How much is that? It's called a POP. It would be a lot less than $12 million. But Oliver Wyman's considered the best in the world for athletics and for finances, and that's what I would have done, and it would have been a lot less. But I do think there's some merit to using Jenner & Block because it's a law firm, and then you create this attorney-client privilege shield. I know. We talked about that before. If it's FOIA-able, then there's no attorney-client privilege. So I'm not a big fan of that anyway. But I want to know what they got for $12 million. I want to see the report. That's a different issue. Let me ask you this. Ward Manuel's job, he has a contract right now. He does. He's got a five-year contract. Got renewed in 2024, right? Got renewed in 2024. He's good to, this time in 2030. He's got four more years left on his contract. Four more years. But there is an out provision, though. If they want to get rid of him, not for cause. He didn't do anything wrong. They just want to get rid of him. It's 36 months. The shorter of the term. Right. 36 months. So 36 months, he makes about $2 million a year. So what's that? $6 million. That's good money. That's what that is. Pretty good money. What are they negotiating? I think that there's a lot of speculation right now. They're saying that, and you know, this is, okay. Collegiate athletics, and in particular anything to do with football, is a lot like presidential politics. The people who know the most talk the least, and the people who know the least talk the most. Got it? There's a lot of talk and speculation about Ward. Is Ward staying or going? Ward's on vacation. The Regents are up in Traverse City. Yeah, he's in his cottage. And these people are all chatting about what Ward's going to do. And finally Ward came out and said, I'm not going anywhere. Except on vacation. Right. But he's got $6 million. Which is basically, he's got four years left, and this will give him three years. You interviewed Ward. Yeah. For him, it's all about the kids. You know that. It's all about the student-athletes. No. It's not about him. Listen, with the athletes, listen, if I'm a student-athlete, a good one, I'm going to have to take a look at the University of Michigan, because it's the culture there. Will they further my career as a student-athlete? I don't know. And the people that are there. The University of Michigan has the highest ranked student quality of life in the country right now. We're number one in the country for quality of student life. You don't think students would leave the University of Michigan if they know that there's all kinds of degenerate block reports and all these things? They don't care. They want a Michigan degree, they want a job, and they want to have fun. What were you thinking about when you went to college? Well, I'm not. Cheap beer, girls, and athletics, and occasionally the library. That's probably right. But not now. These student-athletes, this is money. This is money to them. It is. And the University of Michigan, listen, Ward Manuel is one of his big deals is recruiting good students. So if there's something about him that's... And listen, I like Ward. I like the guy. But if there's something about him, though, does he have that recruiting power? And that's what the University of Michigan needs. I don't think Ward needs to recruit anybody. Okay? That's up to the coaches. But here's Ward's challenge. I'll give you some inside the baseball, what I think is inside baseball. From my view, from somebody who talks to Ward and talks to U of M people on a regular basis, what Michigan athletics have to do is get their NILs cleaned up and made better, and better for the student-athletes. There needs to be competition among NILs until it all goes in-house. Eventually, with the NCAA, all NILs are going to go in-house. All funding are going to go in-house. It's going to be run through the institutions. And that's because there's a lot of competition, isn't there? There is. And the student-athletes who are good are looking at all these different schools, and they're saying, unlike what we wanted when we went to college, they're saying, which can I make more money here? Can I make more money there? And if the University of Michigan has any taint on it at all, I think, and you do too, that that is going to be a factor, a factor in choosing that school. And I think that's what they're worried about. And let's just for the record, we should say what NIL is, name, image, and likeness. And that is student-athletes get compensated for the use of their name, their image, their likeness, their name. The best player, I don't know the players now, but the University of Michigan quarterback. Bryce Underwood, right? How much does he make? Is he getting $16 million? Isn't that the deal he cut? How old is he again? He's a kid, so maybe he's 19 or 20. Then Andrew Marsh is our wide receiver. I don't know what he's getting, but he's a wonderful young guy, and he's probably the best wide receiver in the country. He's terrific. How much does he make? A lot. And I don't know the numbers. I'm not going to guess. So all these guys are making more money than Ward-Manuel? They are. How much does the president make? Do you know what the— What does he make? What were they paying Ono? Two when he left? About the same as Ward-Manuel. Right? About the same as Ward-Manuel. Yeah. You know what the average salary is on Michigan's football team, for what the baseline is? You know what they get? $500,000. Yeah. That's a good living, Charlie, to be a student. $500,000, buddy. What do you think? This is unbelievable to me. You see, that's why this stuff is important. That's why people are—this is money. It's not beer and pizza. All right. But wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let's argue it from the student-athletes' position. They make billions, not millions, but billions for these universities. I mean, University of Michigan makes so much money off of football, and now they're talking about putting patches on their jerseys and logos on the field. I mean, Michigan's—what did they sign? Like a $10 billion, some crazy contract for TV? With us. It's just nuts. With us? With Fox? It'd be great, right? But if they did, I know there's big money in this thing. But look at the money that they make. So—and Jim Harbaugh started this. And by the way, an interesting tidbit. When Jim Harbaugh came out and said, players should get compensated. They're making millions and millions of dollars for these schools. They should get paid. Within a month, the NCAA started investigating Jim Harbaugh. Think about that for a minute. And within two months, he was gone. He was out of there. He stayed. That was when he was—well, you're pretty close to being right. A couple months. It was pretty close. And where is he now? I don't know. He saves San Diego Chargers, right? I know that. He's making decent money. He wants a Lombardi. All right. So what's the deal now? Is U of M transparent enough? I think so, because you have to also protect people's privacy and be transparent. So things can be shared, but you also have to be discreet. You don't want to create more problems. I don't think U of M could have any more problems, could they? Look, U of M is at the top of the hill, right? We're the best of the best. We're the creme de la creme. And so everybody's going to watch you. You're under a microscope. You make mistakes. It's front-page news. Something bad happens at Michigan. My phone rings. It's Charlie. I need you down here at 430 to talk about war management. People may argue the best of the best, but how do you measure? How do you quantify best of the best? I mean, Michigan State's got some programs— 115,000 people applied to go to the University of Michigan for arguably 6,000 spots. That's more than apply for Harvard. That's more than apply for Stanford. That's way more than apply for Ohio State, more than anybody in the Big Ten. And then we're not even talking about our student athletes. So are you saying keep the things that are not as transparent because you don't want to get their dirty laundry up? This is what I think. This general block report is not going to be good. I think the general block report's going to be bad. It's going to be terrible. But that's what they got paid to do. To make a bad report? Yeah, of course. You still have some regions that are going through some problems, too. U of M's got some issues. They've got to clean it up. Besides his athletic department, besides his reports, Sean Moore's not done. Mr. Acker, the regent, we know him. He's still there. I didn't vote for him. It doesn't matter. It's still an issue. I didn't vote for him, Charlie. It's still an issue. All right, hear this in a nutshell. Is he still a regent? Yeah, he is. Should he resign? The Senate faculty just called for his resignation. I didn't know that. But his term is up at the end of the year. He's still attending meetings. They were not happy with his attempt at an apology. We both know him. We're talking about Jerry Acker. Jordan Acker. Jordan Acker, who is alleged to have had, he made some comments about a student. Well, he shared pictures and made sexual comments about a student. Allegations. Here's the bottom line. That's not good for U of M. Let me give it to you in a nutshell. If you're going to call yourself the leaders and best, you've got to live up to your mantra. And that means the University of Michigan should look at itself critically. And it should say, what are we doing right? What are we doing wrong? And what can we do better? And they are pretty good at that. If there's one thing I do have to give them credit is they're pretty quick to say, man, we could have done this better. Or Ward could have done this better. Do you know what I mean? I know exactly what you mean. I'm just saying there's some issues there. We have a poll going on right now. We'd like to know. What do we got? Should Ward Manuel be fired? That should be a two-question poll. Well, let's get to the first. I'm going to explain why. Well, let's get you the results right here. As of this moment, we only have about a minute left in the show, 58% of the people say yes, 42% of the people say no. Reaction to that? Reaction to that is of the 52% of the people say yes, I bet you all of them think that it's Ward's fault that Jim Harbaugh left. In other words, they do not understand or know how collegiate sports work. I guarantee it. You guys need to spend $12 million on a PR firm to get the message out in the right way. Jerry Mason, always good to see you. Thanks, buddy. You look good. It's good to see you, Charlie. Looking good. We'll do this again.