DoctorOz: Jordan Peterson on Financial Health & Well-being

Let's talk about money. How important is financial health to your overall health? What is it a reflection of that you can't make ends meet? What does it mean about your physical mental challenges? Well, we're having huge arguments about that in our culture, aren't we? The research evidence seems to suggest that, although there's some debate about this, that once you have enough money so that bill collectors aren't chasing you around, then having more money doesn't help that much. So money helps stave off the worst of uncertainties at minimum. What does it indicate if you're struggling? Well, that's really an individual question. And it's harsh sometimes. I mean, one thing that happens to be the case is that people who have higher levels of fluid intelligence, which has a strong biological component, tend to make more money. What does intelligence mean? Well, it's really the capacity to conceptualize and solve problems abstractly. And it's partly associated with verbal fluency. And because we tend to think in words, but there's more to it than that. And so all things considered, people who can get somewhere faster and better make more money for obvious reasons. And that's rough. That's very rough. It's built into the fabric of our biology. So if you're having a hard time making ends meet, I mean, I think the first thing to ask yourself is, what stupid things are you doing that are definitely getting in your way? And you can actually ask yourself that. And it's like a prayer in some sense. Apparently, I'm doing some stupid things because my life is not going very well. Maybe I could realize a couple of them in a manner that's not so harsh it crushes me. And if you really meditate on that, you will get an answer. And it won't be an answer you like. But maybe it'll be an answer you can stand. It's like, well, you drink too much. Well, you already know that because you regret what you do while you're drinking. And other people have told you, it's like, oh, you're not doing very well in life. Stop drinking. That's hard. And so you clear out the obstacles that are in your path that you can see to the best of your ability. You see, because what happens is people suffer, and then they judge existence. And they say, well, look, it's arbitrary and unfair, and everything should burn. But, and, you know, yeah, it's an understandable response, but maybe it's unbearable because you're doing too many stupid things. Hopefully, that's the case, because then you could make it better. Right? Maybe there's some hope. Maybe not. Maybe everything is pointless, and misery is the, you know, the inescapable final reality. But I wouldn't jump to that conclusion before you try to stop doing all the things you are doing that are stupid, that you know that are stupid, that you could stop doing. Right? I find that people's self-worth drops when they don't win the game of money. So how does your ability to manage money, even dealing with the fear many people have of money, and the bill collector coming after the money, correlate with their self-worth? Well, people have, well, first of all, money is a marker, in some ways, of status. And we are very sensitive to status distinctions, and that's partly because the serotonin system, which is a master neurochemical control system, it dampens down negative emotion. Now, the higher you are in a hierarchy, a social hierarchy, the more the serotonin system dampens down negative emotion. Reinforces. Yeah. Well, it's also because the higher you are in a hierarchy, in principle, the more protected you are, and the less reason there is to be stressed and afraid. And so people see money as a marker of status, and their conception of their own status modulates their sensitivity to negative emotion. And when people say they want to be happy, they really don't mean that. They mean they don't want to be anxious and miserable, because negative emotion is so powerful. And so anything that indicates status that affects negative emotion is a primary concern. Now, you know, you don't want to overvalue money because it's not the only marker, and even not the only appropriate marker of genuine status, right? So you want to get your status conceptions straight if you can. You don't want to undervalue it either because, well, because it's the unit of exchange for people's attention and labor. It's crucially important. So, you know, it's not money that's the root of all evil. It's the love of money. It's when money is put in the highest place, right? It's not money itself. So within a couple, when you don't like the way your partner is managing money or making money, which is a major cause of discontent, probably the number one reason couples have serious problems that they shouldn't be fighting over, but they do because they can't manage the love of money differences, what are you supposed to do? If you're the person having the problem, you know, you examine yourself, you make the prayer, which I think is a very wise tactic. What do you do when the person you love dearly is just unable to provide in a way that you think is appropriate? I don't know how to answer that because it depends so much on the specifics of the situation. I mean, in general, what you have to do before you embark on a discussion like that is maybe have a discussion with your partner about how both of you should think about money if you were thinking straight, right? Well, how valuable is this? How does it relate to other things that we regard as important? And then maybe you sketch out what you would consider. If you're having a dispute with your partner, one really useful thing to do is to ask them what they want. Well, really it's like, okay, you have a problem. What do you see as a solution? Well, I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. It's like, no, no, no. I need to know your conditions of satisfaction before I can engage in this argument. I need to know that there is something I could do, no matter how difficult it might be, that would actually make this damn problem go away or I won't even engage in the conversation. What do you want? Well, maybe the person has to talk to you a bunch to figure out what they want and that the conversation can start there. So you have to dig into these things. And, you know, people fight about money, but the fights are often about 50 other things. One of the rules Tammy and I had about fighting was you didn't get to bring up the past. Because you know what happens. You start a fight and it's like, well, you did this like three months ago and six months ago, and then you did this two years ago and five years, and soon it's an argument about the entire relationship, and you can't even settle the simple thing that's on the table. We had another rule, which was do not agree with anything you don't agree with. Because I don't want to have this discussion, and you say you agree, but you really don't, and then four months from now we have the same argument, turns out you didn't agree at all, and it was so if you agree and you actually agreed, then you don't get to have the argument about it anymore. Now, you know, obviously there was errors around that, but that was helpful. A lot of... Then you don't bring things forward, you know, and that's what collapses marriages. It's the cumulative consequences of unresolved conflict. The chaos turns into a dragon and eats both of you, and that's that.