PODCAST： Do THIS to live Healthier, Longer Lives with Homesteading (Pantry Chat with Shelby Devore)

Hey you guys, welcome to this week's episode of the pantry chat food for thought. This week, we're talking about something that I think you're going to be really interested in. We are talking about how homesteading can help improve your health, your longevity, your overall happiness and contentment with life. And we're really talking about it in terms of some studies done about the blue zones in the world, areas where people live longer and report happiness. And for this podcast, we'll be talking to Shelby DeVore. So I'm really excited to have her join us today. Shelby grew up as a homesteader, but didn't fully embrace some of the aspects that had to offer until a few years ago. In March of 21, she had a rare type of heart attack. She didn't have any risk factors ahead of time. So it was a real surprise. And this kind of heart attack is so rare, it only affects a few people. Obviously, like so many of us, when that happened to her, it sent her down the trail of studying and starting to understand more and more about her health. And so she really, really dove in and researched a lot about how she could better support her health. Today, she's going to be sharing the information that she's learned on blue zones and how to utilize homesteading practices and eating from our homesteads for better health. So Shelby, welcome. It's so great to have you here. Thanks for joining us. Hey, thanks for having me. I am so pumped to talk to you about this today. I think it's going to be so, so good. Yeah, I totally agree. I think this is something we should really be looking at, because there are cultures around the world that, you know, we can see huge differences in their overall happiness, their longevity, their general health as they age. And I think that's so many of us are looking for. But I want to back up just a little bit and talk to you about your health journey. So many of us come to homesteading because of a health crisis or a health concern. I know for Josh and I, it was a moment when we had a medical accident with our son. They gave him a, doing routine vaccines with our very first son. They actually gave him an extra shot and they didn't record what it was. And then he had a vaccine reaction. And it was just this moment where we woke up and we were like, we don't know anything. We don't know what's going on. We've been like totally trusting somebody else. And that made us, it put us into research mode. And we started learning and the more we learned, the more our eyes were open. And we were like, wow, we need to eat differently. We need to do this differently. We need to medicate different, like everything kind of went out on the table. So I think a lot of people identify with the fact that you had an aha moment, a health crisis that like sent you in a different direction. What was that? For sure. So it's really crazy. You know, you see in movies and read in stories and stuff that when people have like a near death experience, they kind of see like their life flashed around them. And it's a lot of like reflection and memories and stuff. And I can tell you, cause I've been there. That is so true. And so as you mentioned, March, 2021, I had a heart attack. And honestly, I thought I was getting sick. Like I thought I had a cold and was getting like pneumonia or something and went to the doctor because I just could not kick the feeling like something is going on and I don't know what it is. So I went to the doctor, come to find out I was having a heart attack and they sent me to the emergency room. And the type of heart attack that I had, it's super rare. It's really hard to pinpoint and diagnose. Like when you come in, they can tell you're having a heart attack, but they can't see it anywhere. And so it actually takes a lot of invasive testing to figure out and diagnose it, which takes time. And this happened during the pandemic. So the hospital was packed, which made it take even longer. And I actually started having a stroke before they figured out what exactly was going on and then could go in and fix it. And so I was in the, I was in the hospital for several hours undergoing testing and stuff. And as I was laying there, I kind of alternated between basically praying that I could just get to go back home and be okay and see my husband and my kids again and reflecting on things. And I grew up as a homesteader. Like we can look back at multiple generations. My family has done this, been more self-sufficient. It actually felt weird for a long time to use the term homesteader, because that's just how I grew up. You know, like we always had a garden. We always raised meat animals and chickens and stuff. So it was just what we did. But I didn't really think about homesteading and how it could affect my health and how we could be really intentional about that until I came home from being in the hospital almost dying and dealing with all of this stuff. And it really was an eye-opening moment for me. I didn't have any risk factors. There was nothing like in my blood work or anything where a doctor could pinpoint something and say, you're at risk for a heart attack. You know, like your cholesterol levels and your blood pressure. All that kind of stuff that's like a typical risk factor. Mine was all fine and in healthy ranges. Which brought up the conversation with, I had a, I have a team of cardiologists. And one of the conversations that came up was like, okay, what caused this? Is there something that I should be eating or should not be eating or some sort of exercise? Or like, where do we go from here? You know, because the scary thing about the type of heart attack that I had, they tend to repeat. So once you have one, you have a one out of three chance within the next two years that you'll have a repeat heart attack. And the risk never goes away. Okay, so it's not like a one-time type of thing. So it brought up that conversation of like, what is the next step? What can I do to either help my body not have another heart attack? Or if it happens again, how can I set myself up so that I can survive another one? Because I feel like I got really lucky with the first one. And one of the doctors actually brought up the research that was starting to come out at this time about blue zones. And he said, you know, you don't have risk factors for a heart attack like a normal person does. Like you're, all of your stuff looks good. I think we just need to focus on your overall health. Like that's going to be the best bet. And obviously the people living in these blue zones, they're doing something right. So there may be something here that, you know, you could find that maybe you're not doing, or you could do more of. And it kind of led me into this rabbit hole of, there's so much here. And we were homesteading already, but it really took us into just being more intentional about it and paying closer attention to things that have made such a huge difference. Yeah, that sounds like a really scary moment, but a moment that you have taken and really used as motivation to probably affect not only your health, but your whole family's health. And that's going to be generational effect. So that's really huge. And, you know, here at Homesteading Family, it's really important to us to really be about solutions. So we like to acknowledge that there's problems out there. There's a lot of them at the moment. Most of us are really aware of that though, and then look at solutions. And I just feel like you have really done that amazingly well to turn that motivation around. And it's a good example of handling a hard problem. You know, at this moment in history, we're seeing people sicker than ever, just lifestyle sick too. You know, obesity is so large. Diabetes, I was hearing the number of childhood type 2 diabetes right now, which we recognize as a lifestyle disease, and it is huge. It's off the charts. And, you know, depending on your view on autism, autism is going up and up and up, and those numbers don't look like they're stopping or slowing down. You know, we just have this real brand new viruses, right? Like these things are just really challenging for our health. And this is a really challenging time. So I think that this is just an amazing opportunity to say, look at all these challenges out here. How do we turn this around and how do we do the best that we can? And what's really neat is that this research really is a lot easier to act on when you're actually actively homesteading, which is just amazing. Yeah. When I started digging into this stuff after my doctors brought it up, like I got so excited because I was thinking this is so doable, right? Like I'm a homesteader. Some of this stuff we are already doing, like it's so easy to implement. And I think you can actually take some of this research. You can take some of this knowledge, look at your homestead and go, we can actually create a mini blue zone essentially right where we are, which is so cool. But there's so much overlap between the two. Sometimes I'm like, why is nobody talking about this? Like this is so good. But yeah, it's very easy to implement because of that overlap. And when you sit down and compare the two things, I feel like blue zone lifestyles are, it's like a modern way to talk about the lifestyle that homesteaders are actively trying to create for themselves. Like it is the same thing when you boil it down to the values between the two and the ultimate goals between the two. It's the same thing. So super easy to implement, and it has massive impacts for your health. Obviously the people in these blue zones are, they're crushing it, their life expectancy and stuff. So they're doing something right. So let's back up just a little bit and give a good definition of what exactly is a blue zone, since you and I are like excited about this. So we're going to jump right in and start talking about it. But for the people who don't know, what is a blue zone? Okay. So blue zones are areas in the world. Depending on the research that you look at, there's five or six places that they can pinpoint. And researchers found that people in these areas live way longer than the average life expectancy, like 20 years above the average life expectancy, which is insane. They also have higher rates of centenarians, which are people that are over a hundred years old. And the reason that they're called blue zones, it's funny, not anything super exciting. When they started researching these topics, the researchers literally, they had a map of the world, they had a blue pen, they circled the areas on the map, and that's why they're called blue zones. But they're kind of scattered throughout the globe. So there's one that is in Japan, there's one in Italy, there's one that people argue about whether it's actually a blue zone or not in California. But when you look at the map, they're kind of scattered all over. So researchers, when they discovered these little areas, they were like, obviously these places or these people, they have something in common. And they wanted to figure out what it was. At first, they thought maybe it was genetics, like maybe these people just got really lucky and are blessed with good genetics, right? So they did a lot of genetic testing on these people. It is not genetics. I think the last research that I looked at, less than 2% of the people living in these blue zones had a gene that was positively related to higher than average life expectancy. So 98% rest of these blue zone populations, it doesn't have to do with genetics. So when you rule out genetics, you look at lifestyle. And that's where they started to see the connections that each area, each blue zone had so many similarities between their lifestyle. That's what gets me excited because that is what is so similar to homesteading, is the lifestyle that those people are living. Yeah, that's really exciting. So let's just dive right into what you learned in that study. What are those people doing and how can we use that to improve our health here in the United States? Most likely, most of our listeners are actually in the United States, but around the world. But creating those little mini blue zones right where we live, that's such a neat idea to be able to do. And honestly, I get really excited about this, about thinking about our children, because I feel like children's health is just under attack. It's every way you turn, it's the energy drinks with all the stuff in them or the terrible food additives in all the food that they're eating, not just the junk food, but in everything they're getting from the grocery store. And those tender bodies really seem to take a beating when you do that to them. I know Josh and I have talked about genetic momentum for a long time. And when you've got a history when you're young of eating really great, farm fresh, really nutrient dense food, it seems to carry you through even bad habits later in your life. But the opposite isn't true. If you start out with bad habits or poor eating practices, you never are quite able to leave that behind as you age. And so I'm so excited about thinking about creating this blue zone here in our home and affecting the lives of the next generation, so that maybe they don't have some of the health struggles that we're seeing all around us. Yeah, yeah. It has been so impactful, not just for me, but speaking of our kids, we have seen this in my son also. He's 13 and he was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. It runs through our family like crazy, so it wasn't a surprise. But he was diagnosed when he was five, and so we always have to monitor his blood sugar. His body doesn't produce insulin, so he has to take insulin shots. It has been fascinating seeing how his body has reacted positively to more homegrown, traditional style foods. Because of his diabetes, it puts him at a higher risk for GI issues, and we ran into that about a year and a half ago. And he had severe ulcers all through his digestive tract. He couldn't keep food down. He's always been tall. He's really athletic, and he's several inches taller than me already. But he's never been even chunky. Even as a baby, he was not chunky. So at one point, he had lost almost 30 pounds, and that was huge for him. He didn't have the extra weight to lose, and it was because he was having so many issues with his digestive tract. So we went for all kinds of medical testing. He tried different medications. Everything that we tried, nothing worked. So I finally got sick of... I mean, we were almost a year in, and nothing had worked for him. And so I reached out to some friends that are hardcore into herbalism and healing your gut from the inside out, right? And we talked about different things, and we started to do different herbal teas and traditional fermented foods. All of the issues that he had, gone. Oh, wow. And it's so frustrating because I think back to it, and I'm like, he was miserable for so long. And I mean, there was a time they thought it was Crohn's. They thought it was IBS. They thought at one point that maybe his stomach had twisted, you know, like all of this insane stuff. And I'm like, no, it was just what is literally his gut health was suffering, and it just caused all of these major issues. So it hasn't just been me that has benefited from this. I can see it in my kids too. And it makes me so happy that when we have homemade stuff or stuff fresh from the garden, my kids gobble it up like it's candy. They absolutely love it. And I know, I'm like, their bodies know what's good for them. You know, your body craves what it needs. So it's interesting to see them really take advantage of that and, you know, get excited over something silly like a tomato off of the vine and eat it like it was a popsicle. That's wonderful. That's so exciting. And it, you know, it's really, there's so many health theories out there, right? Like so many people have their theory, and it's like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. So that sounds good. But you don't necessarily always see the practical benefit from it on the other side. So to be able to take something and to implement it and see it actually change your health, that is amazing and always really encouraging. So let's jump into the different ways that we can use the Blue Zone theories to improve our health and, you know, what it is they're doing that's different from, say, an average Western culture or standard American diet. Yeah, yeah. So there's a few different pillars of things that they're doing different than the average person. And as a homesteader, you you'll probably look at this and go, that's, that's our goal, or that's kind of what we're doing. But okay, so one of the big things is they don't shop typical grocery stores, and most of their food that they consume, they're either producing themselves, or it is hyper local, as in, like, you may be growing a ton of vegetables in your backyard, but you may not have meat chickens. But your neighbor has meat chickens, and doesn't grow vegetables, so you guys just swap out. Like, that's how hyper local these people are sourcing their food. And everything that they do is using what I call traditional farming and agriculture methods. So organic, sustainable, even regenerative practices, things that we like to stick a label on here in Western society. That's how things have always been done, right? So it's just traditional farming to them. And so they're, they're sourcing really locally produced food that is extremely nutrient dense, right? Because they're using these traditional methods to produce it. And one of the studies that I read was talking about how your body craves the minerals and the nutrients from the plants and animals that are in your hyper local space. And that was something that I had not really read before, was like, when you think of nutrients and stuff that your body needs, you tend to think about, like, a wide range, and having to find, like, crazy places to source it, right? And that's not necessarily true. Maybe it is for, you know, modern, conventional agriculture that we see in Western spaces, where a lot of the food is not as nutrient dense as it used to be. So that was another factor. Another thing that they're doing is, okay, this is a pet peeve of mine. When we think of exercise in Western society, most people think of running, going to the gym, lifting weights, yoga, biking, swimming, all these forms of explosive exercise. And what we're trying to do when we do explosive exercise is essentially get as much calorie burn in, in a limited amount of time, right? Because we're busy, they're going, going, going, they don't have an extended amount of time. So they try to make the most out of what they do have. When we look at people that live in blue zones, they're not doing any explosive exercise. Like, they think that's insane. Their exercise is like walking, taking care of their garden, tending to their livestock. It's very low key, just essentially getting your body up and moving and staying busy throughout the day. Not, how can I fit the most calorie burn in the next 30 minutes? Which kind of brings up another point that I thought was really interesting. In a lot of this research, most of these, these people, their main form of exercise is tending to their garden every day. Like, that's their main source of exercise, which is really fascinating because when you start to dig into it, tending to even a smaller size garden and just getting your body outside in the fresh air in sunlight has huge impacts for your overall health. Most people in Western societies are deficient in vitamin D, right? A lot of people take vitamin D supplements because they don't have enough, and it's a weird nutrient that your body can actually produce on its own, but it has to be exposed to sunlight to do that, right? We're not exposing ourselves as Western society to sunlight in large enough amounts for our body to produce the vitamin D that it needs, and vitamin D is connected to so many processes in your body. It's one of the nutrients that actually every cell in your body can absorb, so it is involved actively with nearly every process in your body in some form or fashion, which can affect your mental health and your physical health as well. So just the act of those people being outside, getting that moderate exercise, getting exposed to sunlight and producing extra vitamin D, that alone probably has huge impacts that they're seeing in their longevity in their lifestyle. Yeah, I just want to jump in right there for a second because I don't know if you've ever read any of Jordan Rubin's work. He did what did he call it? The maker's diet maybe? That was popular quite a few years back, but he got incredibly sick, and what finally started to turn his health around is when he started taking soil microorganisms and getting them into his body, and that's another thing that by gardening, not only are you getting the electrical grounding from being out actually in the garden, getting your hands into the soil, but you're also getting those soil microbes if you're gardening organically, and you have good compost base going on there. You've got all those microbes. Those get into your body just like any other germs. You get them on your hands. You're going to get them in your mouth or your eyes or your nose or something somehow, and that alone increases your health. So the gardening aspect is just so multifaceted for health. Even outside of talking about then you get these super nutrient-dense vegetables and fruits and different things that you can eat. I think that's just such a big part of this and so important. Yeah, I was actually looking at research that supported the fact that a lot of mental health doctors will prescribe gardening as a form of therapy, and they're starting to tie the pieces together of what you just mentioned. A lot of those microbes our bodies actually need, and they're beneficial to both our physical and our mental health. So just getting out and getting your hands in the dirt is huge for your health also. It's like you said, gardening is so multifaceted. I don't think we even fully understand all of the benefits that it has for us, and we probably won't ever. It's just mind-blowing. Definitely, and if you think about it, historically before industrial agriculture at this level that we have at where we're shipping things across the world and we have irradiation and all these different things to totally sterilize it, all of your food, all of your produce is going to have yeast and molds and amoebas and bacteria and not all of those things are bad. You need those things in your body. But this blue zone, it sounds like even if they're not actively growing something themselves, they're getting it so hyperlocal that all of those microorganisms are still going to be alive on the surface of that tomato that maybe their neighbor grew or maybe the farmer down the road grew. It's so different than what modern society does today to get groceries and stuff. Yesterday, I was teaching a class inside of our membership and we were talking about the fact that a lot of tomatoes that are sold in the grocery stores today are several months old. Sometimes they're over a year old when you actually get them. So all of the nutrient quality in that, it's gone, much less the microbes that are beneficial on it. So the fact that they're getting this either from their backyard or maybe from their neighbor's backyard, it's all still there, all the good nutrients, all the good microbes. And another thing that they are really big on, and I think homesteaders, they crave this also, is tradition and community. They are huge on these. They don't use nursing homes. When they have elderly parents, they move in with them. They're not shipping them away, medicating them. And they really embrace that community aspect. And I think homesteaders, they're looking for that. They crave that. They love tradition, which is part of what draws a lot of people to this lifestyle. I know a lot of people will envision Little House on the Prairie and go, I just want to enjoy my family and spend time with my family and close friends. That's the lifestyle that I want. And I've seen it too. There's a trend lately on social media of people, essentially, groups of friends or family members will buy a large piece of property and they all go in on it together and they build their separate houses, but they're using that piece of property almost as like a huge family unit so that they can build these little communities. And that's the type of stuff that people in these blue zones are doing. They're not isolating themselves. They don't even have TVs. That's not how they're spending their time. They're spending their time with people in their community, with close friends, with family members. And I think it gives them more of a sense of purpose. And it's really hard to go through life in modern society, especially if you don't have that sense of community or that sense of belonging. The world today can be so isolating, which is insane because I feel like with social media and the internet, it's easier now to be connected more than ever, but we've actually seen the opposite, right? So those are kind of the big pillars that blue zone people have in common with homesteaders. Another thing that I thought was fascinating is, I didn't know this until I was reading through the research, the average person in modern society in a given year takes seven medications. Did you know that? No, I didn't. I had no idea it was that high. I knew it was getting high, but I didn't know. The average person in modern society takes medications within the span of a year. And a lot of that, it's antibiotics, which affect overall gut health, your body health, it's huge. Antidepressants are really high on the list, stress medications, medications for mental health, and all of these are like a band-aid, right? Nobody is getting down to some of the root causes of why do we need these medications in the first place? Why aren't we healing the underlying problem here? People that live in blue zones, they don't take modern medication. They think that food is healing and that's what they use. There's a lot of herbal remedies that are used and just healing through what they take into their bodies. So when you look at that and you compare it to modern society, it's like, no wonder they're living so much longer than the average population. They are doing everything that they possibly can to support their overall health and giving their body the tools it needs to take care of itself. Yeah, that is really fascinating. So how have you taken these principles and applied them in a practical way in your family and, you know, seen the health benefits that you've seen from taking these principles? So I think the biggest thing was when I started digging into this research, it was just small changes that we needed to make and just thinking through how can we be more intentional about our homesteading. Like I said before, we've always grown and produced a lot of our own food. We didn't always go about it the way that we go about it now. So at the beginning of each season, we take a step back and go, okay, what can we grow and produce that is going to have the biggest impact on our family? And we kind of plan our season from that perspective, just being super intentional about we want to be able to produce as much and rely on the grocery store as little as possible. I'm always trying to encourage people that live around us, like we're growing this and this and this, you know, if you were growing this and this, all we would have to do is like swap stuff out. And it's been really interesting. There's a lot of people that are open to that. Once you kind of spark that conversation, they're like, yeah, I could totally do that. And so now we actually have a few different neighbors that we commonly swap stuff out with. And I know a lot of people get a little bit gun-shy, I guess, of like bringing that conversation up. But I think it's a lot more easier now than it was, I would say, three or four years ago. You know, if you would have brought that up three or four years ago, most people that you talk to are like, eh, that sounds a little bit hippie to me, like, you know, that I'm okay with just shopping at the grocery store. But now when you bring it up, a lot of people are really open and receptive to that. And another thing that we have done is just get active and get outside more. We've always been active, but it's just like being more intentional about that. And I think dealing with a heart condition and having to be really careful about what I do as far as explosive exercise goes, that's a risk for me. So it was really interesting when I started going through the research to see that these people that have these longer lifespans, they're not doing that anyways. So for a long time I thought, you know, I'm like missing out. I'm not going to be able to be as healthy as possible because I can't do crazy strenuous exercise. And that's not the case. Just being more active is what my body needed. And so when I was reading that's what these other people were doing, it was really reassuring. Like, okay, this is good. This is beneficial. We've also gotten way more intentional with just supporting our microbiome and taking care of that. Like, have you read any of the research where doctors actively call Alzheimer's type three diabetes? I have started seeing that coming out. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. So just little stuff like that, you know, like thinking through, I hate to say like nitpicking our lifestyle, but just going over it with a fine tooth comb, like how can we be even more intentional to support our overall health than what we were already doing? And it was all, it all boils down to just small changes, really. Yeah. Yeah. I know for us, one of the things that we've seen make the biggest impact, and it was born out of practicality for us as a gardener is shifting our focus from trying to grow everything that was in the grocery store to growing what grows really, really well in season here in our homestead and really focusing on the things that we can eat in season and fresh, but then things that naturally preserve themselves also, things like pumpkins and squash, you know, onions, the root vegetables, like really diving into the seasonality of our food and taking a step back from, well, you know, it doesn't matter that it's North Idaho and it's really hard to grow a tomato here. You know, I'm still going to put all these tomatoes in here because that's what the average diet should have. Because when you step away from that and you have the, you focus on the food that wants to grow in your area, you are by definition going to have the most nutrient dense food. It's happy growing there. It knows how to handle that circumstance. And so you end up with all these different nutrients and it simplifies your gardening a lot too, which is a real big bonus. Yeah, it is. And you have way less infrastructure. You're not trying to deal with hoop houses and greenhouses and all these different things just to grow outside your zone. But yeah, that is really amazing. It is, I think we're going to continue to find that more and more of the modern diseases and health problems really boil back down to a lack of some of these basic things, which, you know, is really encouraging actually when we're looking at it from a homestead point of view and we say, okay, we can do that. We can make those changes. You know, we can focus on more fermented foods and cultured foods to be able to really help our gut. Are there any, I know you actually have a download that you are offering to the listeners to help them create their own mini blue zones around their property. I love that. I'm really excited. We'll share the details on that in just a few minutes. But are there any resources that you just love or that you've really found yourself turning to when you're implementing this? So I am such a nerd. Okay. I have a master's degree. And so reading research is like second nature to me. If somebody is interested in that also, sometimes it can be a little scientific, you know, to pick out the overall benefits of things. But I love just diving into some of the like official research studies about blue zones. I did watch a special not too long ago. I think it just aired recently on Netflix. I'm trying to think of what it's called. It is, it's about blue zones. And it's one of the original blue zone researchers that does it and it's shot like a documentary. And so he goes to the different blue zones and he's talking to people and just really trying to figure out what it is that they're doing that we are not. And that was really good. That's a really good, I think like beginner's eye opening. If you want to sit down and watch something, it's several episodes. But that was really good too. Yeah, that sounds great. You know, and I think another place that we really need to focus, you brought this out on the lifestyle of being connected with other people and visiting with other people. You know, it goes to the biblical concept that laughter is great medicine. And you can laugh by yourself. I laugh at myself oftentimes when I'm alone and do something stupid, which is constantly. But you laugh better in a group. And I just, especially if you're a homesteader in the United States, the chances that you feel isolated or alone, or like you're doing this by yourself, maybe just with a small family group around you is actually pretty high. I know a lot of people are looking for that connection. And I just really encourage you figure out a group of people that you have something in common with. It doesn't even have to be homesteading. And start meeting with them. For me personally, I threw together a group about once a month of just friends, just girlfriends. And we go out to dinner and we laugh all night long. There's no agenda. There's no anything. We just all go show up at a restaurant together. And it becomes the best time. And these are just random people that maybe I don't even know that well, but kind of think that they might be a friend in the future. And it's a great way to get to know them and get to know each other and really start creating that community around you. So I really, really say, if you're feeling isolated, if you're feeling alone, please try to get involved in something and do it in person. I know there's so many great opportunities. I know Shelby has a membership. Of course, I have a membership. And it's a great place to connect with people on the homesteading side or on some of these topics or a topic that you're interested in. But really getting to sit down with somebody, maybe go garden with somebody, get some of these benefits all together, and actually have a conversation and get to laugh and share life, cry, whatever it is, with another person. It is so incredibly helpful in today's modern age where we're just feeling so isolated. Yeah. And I would second that too. And definitely don't be scared to be the person to start that. Like I mentioned earlier, I think people are so, so receptive to that. And we kind of get a mental block sometimes and think, you know, like, they might feel weird if I'm like, hey, let's do this and or get together or, you know, whatever. However, that conversation comes up. And I think people are a lot more receptive to that because as a society, we're just figuring out that what we've been doing is not working. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the definition of insanity, right? To keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. So it's the moment. And I think that's what homesteading is all about to go, whoa, this isn't working. Let's change it. Let's do something different and let's get a different result. So you guys, you're already doing so many amazing things, working towards your health and the health of the next generation. Keep going, keep doing what you're doing. Keep learning more about how to get out there and garden, how to grow your own food, how to enjoy it with friends and family in season fresh. I mean, straight out of the garden, if you can still warm in the sun, it's an amazing thing. Make sure you're adding that in. And again, Shelby has very generously offered to give you guys a download all about how to do this on your own homestead. So I will put the link for that in the description in the podcast notes here. So just look for that. Go ahead and click over and we'll have a link for you to go grab that from Shelby. If you want to know more about Shelby and her platform and what she teaches, I know she's got a membership. What else do you have going on over there? Mostly we do. So we have a membership. We are, we also hold summits a couple of times a year, which there are so much fun. I absolutely love those. We've got all sorts of articles on the site that people can check out for free, all sorts of guides, helpful content, courses, you name it. It's probably on our website. All right. So you'll want to check her out at GardenFarmThrive.com. And again, for her free download in the link there, check out the show notes and I will have a link to it for you. Thank you, Shelby. This has been a great conversation. Yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm so happy I got to come on and just share a little piece of it with you today. Yeah. Thank you. Goodbye, you guys.