101. How to Date Intentionally with Talia Koren

Coming up on this episode of Flirtations, we have the first ever guest back on the show. It's Talia Koren. Talia is the host of the Dating Intentionally podcast and creator of the Dating Intentionally Instagram and YouTube pages, here to have a conversation with us about dating intentionally. Inside the episode, here's what you can expect. How to identify your personal intentions and needs in dating and why this matters. How to set and maintain boundaries and why those boundaries are for you first. Effective communication strategies, including texting frequency and early dating. Transitioning from dating app conversations to real life dates. Approaches to multi-dating and determining the right balance for you. Recognizing green and red flags and understanding your deal breakers. Managing first date anxiety and how to determine emotional availability and why it starts with you. So, whether you're new to the dating scene, getting back out there after a break or relationship, or looking to refine your approach, this conversation offers practical insights to help you date with more intention. Let's do this, flirties. Time to meet Talia. I heard you wanted to flirt. I heard you, I heard you wanted to, I heard you wanted to flirt. Hello, my name is Benjamin. I'm a flirt coach and a gay Libra. Everyone has an inner flirt. Hey, flirty. Live, laugh, flirt. Flirt, flirt, flirt, flirt. Flirt the flirt. Delulu is the Salulu. Expert on the flirt. Hey, flirty. There's always another flirt. Everyone has an inner flirt. Get out of your head and into the flirt. Flirties, back on the show, the first ever guest on Flirtations from episode one to 101. It's the creator and host of the Dating Intentionally podcast and the Dating Intentionally Instagram and YouTube pages. You know and love, here today to share her story of how to date intentionally. It's Talia Coren. Hey, I'm so happy to be back. Oh my gosh. 101 episodes. Yes, welcome back. I don't get to say that too often. Thank you, yes, so much for being the first ever guest and then here we are 100 episodes later. Amazing. Wow, and a lot has changed in this past year. We're gonna get into your Dating Intentionally story, which I love when you post about this on Instagram, when you talk about it on your podcast because you present a strategy for dating that I think we can bring so much uncertainty and anxiety into the process, but when you have a plan, a framework, intention, right? It just makes the whole thing a little bit easier. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, but first I want to ask you a little bit about married life. Yeah, I guess I was not married last week. No, no. Yes, I got married in September, 2024 and so we're still newlyweds. It's been like seven, eight months, I don't know. And it's great, I love being married, I really do. It is so good. We decided we're not gonna start our family yet, but we are very excited to. It's really hard to see like, okay, what you experience in dating when you're looking forward to the next thing. It doesn't really end if you're that kind of person, right? I'm right now, I'm like, cool, I'm married. Let's talk about starting a family. Like, no, Talia, just live in the moment. Just be present for two seconds. Yeah, it's been great. Yeah, and I love what you post about. I mean, it's so wonderful to have a creator, a coach like yourself because I really focus on, I say from the flirt to the first date to now we're in a relationship. So that's really the part of the dating process I focus on because I'm not in a relationship. I've been in one before. I've had long-term relationships. I've been engaged before, but currently I can't really, from like my day-to-day experience right now, speak to that part of the dating process of, oh, now we're in a relationship. Oop, what does that look like? What happens? And so I love that you're giving a glimpse into your world and offering daters what happens. You know what I try to do with that is like just show that the work doesn't end. It's not like happily ever after the second and you decide your boyfriend, girlfriend or get engaged or get married or whatever. And you're still going to learn a ton about yourself. You're still gonna feel uncertainty and anxiety pretty much every step of the way. So that is something to keep in mind. Yeah, I love when you post about and just talk about your check-ins, right? When you are, you have date nights, right? Day trips, trips together out of state. It's just, it's all really wonderful to see how that transition happens from dating, boyfriend, girlfriend to engaged to married, right? But it's, yeah, I love watching. Thank you. Okay, Talia, let us get into the origin of the dating intentionally story. So we're really gonna be focusing today on that early dating process, wherever you may be. Maybe you're dating right now, you're taking a break. You're sort of like, hmm, how does all of this work? I'm curious. Yes, what does it mean from your perspective to date intentionally? I love this question. So dating intentionally, in my definition of this is that you know what you want and you are aligning your actions with that in your dating life. So what you want could be a long-term relationship. It could be just to explore. It doesn't have to be a long-term relationship. It could be that you're, maybe you're exploring different parts of your sexuality and then you wanna start dating a different gender. It doesn't matter. Whatever it is for you, you are aligning your actions with what you want consciously. Okay, and why is that important? Because, okay, it's important because we all want things like in life, but a lot of times we get in our own way because it's hard to change our behavior. It's hard to get ourselves unstuck to that next lily pad, to the next thing because we have to change our behavior. And part of that is realizing like, oh, if I want to be X, then I need to start acting like that. I need to start behaving a little bit differently and it might feel uncomfortable. That's why it's important because we have to get out of our comfort zone to get what we want usually. Absolutely. And we're gonna talk about the discomfort piece, dating anxiety throughout the conversation. It's definitely on the list of questions. The flirties of course came through when they saw Talia on my stories, they said, oh, we got questions. But I love how you talk about dating intentionally because it's, I love that you also frame it as a more open, sometimes experimental process where depending on where you're at with just dating experience, life experience, maybe you're exploring bisexuality. Maybe you're just dating for the first time. Maybe you just moved to a new city. You just got a job, you got a lot going on, but you're like, oh, you know, I'm interested. I want to date. But knowing why, at least having a good idea of why is so important because you're gonna meet daters all the time that if you don't know why you're dating, they're gonna decide for you why you're dating. Yes, exactly. They're gonna determine for you what your intentions are. So if you're just matching energy, go with the flow, oh, I don't know what I'm looking for, you know, whatever you want, well, your intentions are gonna be decided by somebody else. And that makes it really confusing. When you're dating intentionally, you are gonna have to say no to a lot of things. And a lot of us are not good at saying no. We don't have practice with saying no. And it feels weird and uncomfortable and a little selfish and a little, sometimes it could feel mean, even though it's not mean to say no, depending on how you say it. You know, it can feel weird. So yeah, when you're dating intentionally, it's gonna be different than when you're just dating and to see what happens, like, yeah. Okay, and so in your dating intentionally story, what was your dating intention? So I, when I got out of a long-term relationship, you know, six years, my first, the first part of my journey was really just about the exploration, building my confidence. And I just wanted to, honestly, I wanted to create emotional distance between my breakup and my current self. And that did involve having new connections. At the same time, I was in therapy, working on healing from that breakup. And I was upfront with people that I was not looking to get into a relationship. And I knew that. I absolutely knew. So that was like the first, I was single for a year, first like six months or so. Then I was like, okay, you know what? I've had like at least 30 first dates at this point, at least maybe more. Maybe it's time to like start taking, I felt a shift in myself, an emotional shift. I'm like, okay, maybe I'm ready to actually explore a real commitment with someone. So the next half of my dating journey was more focused on finding someone who'd be a good fit for me and being open to more emotional attachment with someone. I was more ready for that. Okay, and how were you? I mean, I know the answer, but how are you meeting people? Yeah, I was meeting people using dating apps and in person. In person too. Unfortunately, speed dating events were not available at that time because it was just the end of the pandemic. So they weren't back yet. And I really wish, maybe I should just run one because I really want to experience one. Yeah, you're like, do it. Please do it. But no, I didn't get to participate, but I would have. Okay. And in your process of going on those first dates, what were some of your, like, did you have a screening process or what were some of those questions or maybe a few things on the checklist you were looking for? Because with this question, I feel like a lot of daters, if you're on the apps or even meeting people in person, you want like every box to be checked. Yeah, no, I was extremely generous with who I met and my swiping. I definitely had a screening process, but it looked a lot different than I think most people using the apps who are a little more guarded, which there's a reason for that, right? The apps can be dangerous. They can be sketchy. I get it. I was a little more loosey goosey. Okay. For me, my criteria was like, can you carry a normal conversation where you're not making it sexual and you're not rude to me? And some people did not pass that test, but a lot of people did. There are a lot of people out there who can have a normal back and forth conversation. We were talking about books and TV and music and food. And that was like, okay, if we can do that, then let's just meet for a date. So I got off the apps pretty quickly and I had no problem saying, let's just meet. Let's just meet. All right, we're going to stay here for just a moment because I think I'm trying to remember the conversation you initially had with Johnny. Yeah, my husband. Your husband, I think it was about, it was about books. It was books, yeah. I asked him about what audio book he was reading and he told me we talked about books and then the conversation naturally does shift away from that. But it doesn't have to be this clever, witty, outstanding, memorable conversation. It should be kind of boring, I think. Yeah, I'm with you because like, well, let me ask this question now first or before. How long are you messaging on the apps before you go on the date? There were some times I went on dates after like four messages. It was just kind of like, hey, you seem cool. I'd love to chat with you about whatever on your profile. Do you want to get a drink? Like, and I was like, and I was open to that. Like, again, I was like, sure. I don't see the harm in this. And were those dates amazing? No, but they were just boring. They just, it just wasn't the conversation, whatever. But generally I would say anywhere between like 10 to 20 messages total between the two of us. Yeah. Which can be like a day to three days, depending on how fast we're responding, right? But never longer than like a week of talking. Like it should just be up to three days of talking. Yeah, I'm with you, like definitely no more than a week because what happens is like a few things could happen. You get stuck on the apps, you get stuck in the conversation. It never really progresses or goes anywhere. Or now you're like, oh, you're following each other on Instagram or Snapchat and like- No, don't do that. No, like you're not dating because you want to text someone, right? You're dating because you want to go on a date and maybe find a partner. So we got to get there. It's scary though. Look, I think people hang out on the apps. They kind of stay in limbo because they are scared to actually go on a date. Yeah. And that can be men and women. It's everyone. I think we're all a little nervous and that's why I feel safer to just stay stuck in messaging. And a lot of people end up having their whole first date conversation on the apps and we need to not do that. I agree, because that's something I used to do. Oh, really? It builds that connection. You feel like, oh, I just want to know so much about this person, especially if you find them really attractive and the conversation's good and you're getting those notifications are going off and it feels new. And it can feel- Well, that's the thing. That burns off really quickly, which is why it's so important to get to the date in that new feeling. And look, when I say quickly, I mean that burns off within like 12 hours. Yeah, get to the date, carry that new feeling and then build on it on the date. All right, so getting to the date, who's asking who? I wish this wasn't even a question, Benjamin. I know. I, it does not matter. When, look, as someone who is married, when you're walking down the aisle, you're not going to remember who asked you on the first date. It doesn't matter. I swear to God. Yes. No, for real. I think if you are talking to someone and you're like, cool, I've seen enough, I'm ready to take this to a date plan, you can say, hey, I would love to meet. And if you're a lady and you want the guy to step in and do it, just say, I want to meet and let him figure it out. Like, you don't have to plan the whole date. You can just say, just say what your intention is. I want to meet you. Great. See what happens. Yeah. And are you, so you're swiping and going on dates with multiple people at the same, like all at the same time. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, my max was three people. I figured I had like a formula. Okay. Do you want to hear this formula? Yes. This is going to sound really complicated. Yes. Okay. So I figured out through trial and error that I could only really date three people at once. And when I say date, I do not mean I'm exclusive with them or anything. We're not sleeping together necessarily. It's just like one to two dates. So that's really where I'm living right now. Okay. I, so three was my number. And basically if I went, let's just say we went on a date and it didn't work out, which obviously I think it would work out, but if you were straight, I don't think it would. But like, you know, if it didn't work out, then I would, then I'd be like, cool. Anti-ghost text. Then I'd go back to the apps and I'd fill in basically my third spot. Right. Because I have an empty spot now. Absolutely. That was my formula. That was my rotation. So I wouldn't, if I was talking to three people and I was going on dates with them, I would not use the apps until I had rejected or been rejected by someone. Okay. And that spot was open. That was my formula. Okay. I mean, I love a formula here on Flirtations. I feel like math comes up oddly a lot on the show. I was recording it. What do you think of that approach though? Do you think like as a dating coach, what do you think of that? Be honest. I think it's good because ultimately what I hear, it's about managing energy and expectations and balancing that with anxiety as well. Like it's, you gotta know yourself. And so I think three is a very reasonable number, you know, so you're not managing, you know, texts from four or five, six different guys or girls, right? But three, and also it gives you this opportunity of, I think kind of, as we're talking about newness, right? It just, it gives you something, like if you're really dating intentionally and your intention is wanting a relationship, you know, you are actively working towards that goal when you have dates set up, when you're on the apps and you're making conversation, like you are moving forward, whether that eight ends in, you know, it didn't go well or a ghosting, something like that. You're still directing your energy where you want it to go. Yeah. And I think it's really, really important to say this. I was not comparing people to each other. That is actually the wrong way to do it. I was holding people up to my needs. So it wasn't comparing them against each other. It was more like, I know exactly what my needs are in a partner and in a relationship. And I'm comparing each person to that. Which one of them is going to meet my needs. And at the end of my journey, I was down to two guys, my husband and one other guy. And like what it came down to is I was just way more excited to see Johnny than the other guy. And I ended it with him after like the other guy, after like three or four dates. Oh, so good. And we're going to get into chemistry compatibility in just a few moments, but I want to stay here on needs because this is a really important part of the dating intentionally conversation. Like I think we've taken the flirties through the journey of in-person apps, matching, talking, now meeting. And so when it comes to not comparing your dates to one another, I think this is so important, more so centering yourself, right? This is something I learned from you. Why are your needs and knowing your needs so important when it comes to dating intentionally? And this is your compass. I mean, you can date with the intention of getting into a relationship, but if you don't know what you're looking for in a partner and in a relationship, then you're going to end up with someone probably who isn't as compatible as you need them to be. You're going to end up with someone who also just wants to be in a relationship. Like if that's all you're looking for, you can find that, but it might not be the right fit for you based on so many factors of like what you want for your life and other, you know, you said we'll get into compatibility, but when you also, the beauty of knowing your needs is that it's so much easier. It's so much clearer. You're so much more decisive because you're like, you know what? This is what I need. This person said something that completely goes against that. That's an easy no. And you get to cut them loose before you get too far in, right? Yeah, this is the part of saying no. And sometimes you'll be doing the rejecting. And I mean, for lack of better words, you'll be saying no. You'll be sending that text of, hey, great to meet you. Not the connection for me. Yes, I said no to a lot of people because I was like, look, and it kind of sounds like dating with an agenda and maybe it is. And I obviously was still open to connection, but I wasn't like sitting down with my dates and interviewing them based on what my needs were. But I had it in the back of my head. So in certain conversations, I was able to pick up, you know, a green flag or red flag based on that and decide who to keep seeing. Okay, so good. What are some examples of needs or what were maybe some of your core needs? Yes. So two that really were pretty easy to figure out on dates. One of them was, I need someone who has a desire and the time and resources for novel experiences. And that could include travel. That could include, like my husband and I, we just did an omakase. It was really expensive, you know? And we don't always do that, but it was like special and, you know, stuff like that. And so in conversation on my dates, I would be able to explore like, what's something new you tried? You know, where are you going on your next vacation? If their answer is, I don't even have a passport, that's fine. You know, I'm not judging that person, but it's not for me. Like, that's okay. You don't need your, you're not a bad person. Just not for me. Another one was ambition. And I was looking for someone who was ambitious in their career and wanted to have joint goals with their person. So like, I was definitely looking for someone who, you know, knew their career plans, but also would have fun, silly, like, things with me. Like, you know, this is an example from my ex. We had like a date list and we had to like, check everything off. And that was super fun to do together, you know? Like, okay, we have like the silly, kind of meaningless, like, you know, low stakes goal together in early dating. Yeah. That's, yeah. So, so good. And for the flirty listening that's unsure of what their needs are, where could they start? Are there areas they can look at in their own lives or maybe with past relationships, friendships, things like that? So I'm going to Plug City. I do have a whole course on this. Yeah, you do. Which is in my, it's in my Instagram bio link and it's my bestseller. But I, you know, I think there are many ways to do this, but the main gist of it is creating your master list of wants, like everything, even all those superficial things, even like height, you know, things that don't matter. Yeah. And then you kind of have to go through the list and be like, okay, if I found an amazing person, but they didn't have this thing, could I still be happy? And then you kind of eliminate things like that. And you kind of separate things that are absolutely non-negotiable. Like, no, if I didn't have this. Yes. I could not be happy. That's a need. Okay. And ultimately you want to get to like five things. All right. Oh, this is so good. Cause I feel like in the stating process, when emotions come into play things, maybe like attraction, there's a lot of physical chemistry. Yes. You think they're really hot. You're sharing their pictures with all of your friends. Right? We may not be thinking super objectively, but when you have your compass and you know what you're looking for, it just helps you be a little bit more intentional and objective in the dating process. Like one of my needs is sense of humor. You got to make me laugh. You don't have to be a comedian. You don't have to be doing standup, but if we can't laugh together, it's never going to work. And that is a need that I overlooked for a long time because it'd be like, oh, well, they're hot. Or, oh, they're really like, they text me a lot. Maybe that's present. But am I having fun? Do we make each other laugh? Then no, thank you. No, thank you. No. Not going to work. Okay. Let's get on the date now. Sure. Dating. Yeah. The actual dates and the dating intentionally process. So I got a couple of questions here about dating anxiety, specifically first dating anxiety. So maybe a few strategies for just going into that with a more right balanced nervous system, clear head. Yeah. So for a first date, if you have anxiety, I mean, there's so many different things you could do. I think what I did was I had a get ready routine that I really liked. So I would blast some Doja Cat and Beyonce usually and to get myself feeling like I'm feeling myself, honestly, any music that helps you feel yourself, that's what you're going to play. And I would have fun putting on my outfit, my makeup, my hair, just feeling myself. Again, if you're a guy listening, I'm sure there's some equivalent. Yeah. Benjamin, what's the equivalent? Like you're like doing your mustache, your hair. Yeah. I was going to say my gay playlist is also Beyonce and Doja Cat. Yeah. So I'm going to put, you know, a little pomade in the mustache. We're going to, you know, kind of a wisp it up a little bit, make it more whimsical. But yeah, I love this. You've got to, if you're going into the first date, it's one thing to feel anxious. That's, I feel like really normal. I still get anxious before a first date, but if you're, it's about getting out of that mindset of like, oh my gosh, I got to be perfect or they have to make the best first impression, right? That's where I want us to shift our mindset a little bit. Yeah. I think taking the pressure off is huge. Like when you go into a first date thinking like, oh my God, this could be my husband. Yeah. You're not going to have a fun time on that date. But when you're thinking like, I'm just going to see if we can talk for 45 minutes and if they make me laugh. Yeah. Okay. That's a lot, that's a lot more, that's a much easier thing to go into than like, oh my God, what if, what if we get married? Like, you know. And it's so, I've done that. I know a lot of daters have. A lot of the flirties listening have done that. It's like the first date is, are we going to get to a second date? That's it. That's really it. What am I going to learn about this person? Yeah. And I think having, like, if you get really nervous, having a couple, like one or two go-to questions you like, that you like to ask everyone is good. I mean, as a podcaster, that's also very helpful. Just a couple out of your back pocket, you know. I think also just kind of, yeah, getting into a mindset where you're not putting on a show. Like you're not there to entertain them and they're not there to entertain you. Yeah. You can show up as your full self and you should. And it takes practice. On a first date, that's a tall order, I think. But being like, I'm just going to be who I am literally right now on this Thursday night. It's raining. I had a hard day, but you know what? I'm still going to show up and enjoy myself and be real. Yeah. At the end of the day, that's what you want. Take the pressure off. See how the energy is, how the vibes are. And it's like, this comes from another episode of Flirtations where the guest does matchmaking and does a lot of singles events and mixers and all that good stuff. And the line he gave, it's Daniel Cooley. He said, be interesting or be interested rather than trying to be interesting. And it seems counterintuitive. Like, don't I want to be interesting to the people I'm going on dates with? Of course. I mean, in a sense, but you being interested, asking questions, making eye contact, right? That in and of itself is going to make you interesting. And hot. Very hot. Yeah. Indeed. All right. Okay. A few questions here. Just a classic tried and true, right? If there's no chemistry on the first date, I wasn't feeling the spark, so to speak. What are we doing, Talia? You are having another date. Damn it. Give it a few dates. Okay. You give it a few dates if you had fun on the first date. Okay. Like you can have a good conversation and a fun time, even if there's no chemistry, right? We don't need chemistry to have fun. So if you enjoyed the conversation and if you didn't run into any deal breakers, right? Sometimes you're going to run into, like I had a couple of first dates where I ended in a kiss and if they grabbed my ass on the first kiss, it was an automatic, like, no, you're not getting another date. Like, I just don't like that. It makes me feel uncomfortable. No, thank you. So if you didn't run into any deal breakers and you enjoyed the conversation, go on the next date. I didn't feel any kind of chemistry until six weeks with my husband. Okay. I mean, I guess I mean sexual chemistry or like physical chemistry. Obviously we had more of an intellectual chemistry because I think there's different kinds. So when you say chemistry, did you mean like physical attraction? Really all of it. I'm glad that the question or the, yeah, it's going in this way because I think there's chemistry and oftentimes our mind goes to the physical, but oh my gosh, there's emotional chemistry. There's that intellectual chemistry. Can you make each other laugh? Can you hold a conversation? Can they be consistent with communication? All of that can absolutely build chemistry as well. Yeah, I mean, like for my husband, he was consistent. He made me laugh. We had stuff in common. I liked talking to him, but I didn't feel attracted to him. And he was very much, he's one of those guys who uses humor to deflect. So it was very much a slow burn because I'm like, it's so hard to get to know you. But I knew that like, I was like patient with it. And I'm glad because I'm still learning about him every day. Me too, he seems like a really cool guy. He is, he is a really cool guy. Also, I think that's like the Gemini me. I'm just endlessly curious and I just like, I like a little bit of a, like not a challenge, but just like, I don't mind that there's more to know. I don't need to know everything. Oh, that's so good. That helps out not just in dating, but in life too. Yeah, exactly. Let's bring on the surprises. Okay, well, let's play in this space of yes, early dating for a little bit more, just talking about how long to give it, if there's chemistry on the first date versus not. And now getting into some questions about communication. Sure. Because this is, I feel like we both get tons of texting and communication questions. So what is maybe a healthy balance of communication? What does that look like in this process? Yeah, the way I like to think about it is like, you have your inner circle of your friends and family, people you talk to every day, and the people that you are meeting on the apps or in person or wherever, they're not in your inner circle yet. You don't need to talk to them every day. They need to earn that. They need to show that they are worthy of being in your inner circle. So I don't want to see daters texting all day and night with the people that they've hung out with for four hours. Like you've spent four hours with this person, maybe three hours, you know? They shouldn't be texting you all day. You shouldn't be texting them all day. So I think the balance is daily check-ins, fine. How's your day going? Hope you had, you know, maybe following up on something you already talked about. Oh, did you watch White Lotus? Whatever it is, you know, is fine. And also using texting to plan the next date. If you went on a date with someone, right? We're past the first date at this point. And you're just going back and forth about your days and weeks, but there's no next date. You've got to, at a certain point, you can be like, hey, I'm interested in meeting again. Yeah. End of sentence. And then see what happens, because otherwise you're going to fall into that pen pal trap again. I don't know why people do this. I don't know why, we don't have to analyze it. It's just like, if you want a second date, you've got to, you can push that forward a little bit. Yeah. I feel like I used to, yeah, I used to do this. I feel like I used to be the dater that would text a lot. And part of it is, I mean, it's, at the end of the day, it's easier to text than it actually is to go on dates. It's easier just to like, you know, share a song or a meme or a reel, a TikTok, something like that, than it is to actually ask, hey, how are you? How was your day, right? Did you catch up on White Lotus? Did you make that taco dinner that we were talking about, right? How was that visit with your mom? It's easier to do these, I feel like these bids for connection that don't really deepen or evolve the connection beyond just a, oh, hey, right, here's a meme or something like that. So I feel like I used to do that really out of a fear of losing someone, out of a fear of being rejected, out of a fear of what if they, yeah, don't like me. And so if I could just kind of always be in their notifications, in their phone, oh, well, they wouldn't forget about me. When you're texting, just to not be forgotten, you're not really moving the relationship forward at all. You've got to just use texting to plan and just, again, daily check-in's fine. And with my husband, we did not text every day when we first started talking. It was like every three days and it was fine. Yeah, so I know there's some flirties listening now that are like, oh, that would make me so anxious, right? If I went on a first date with someone and then I didn't hear from them for, oh my God, 24 hours. Okay, here's the thing. I wasn't crazy about him at first. I wasn't hooked. When we had our first date, I was like, I'm probably never going to hear from this guy again. I just had this feeling of like, and I didn't care though. I did not care. That was the thing. It wasn't like, oh, bummer. No, it was just like, okay, I don't know if, I get this vibe he's new to the city. He's probably dating up a storm. I was wrong. That's just what I would have done. I was dating other people too. So I just, you know, we kept in contact. We saw each other once a week. And I think I made a point because, okay, look, as a person who wasn't sure of like, I don't know if I like him yet, but I also, he hasn't done anything wrong. He isn't, there was no red flags. So I'm like, let me just keep dating him because there's no red flags. I made a point to keep showing interest because I knew he was a good guy and there were no red flags. And I like talking to him, but it wasn't like I need his attention all the time. And I think that's a huge green flag. Definitely, definitely a green flag. And that was the key for me. I'm so glad you just mentioned that. I feel like my dating life changed completely when I realized it's not just about the bids for connection and getting to know someone, but being really intentional with how you show interest. That's what it's really about. Yeah, yeah. I'm like Eileen avoidant. I'm not anymore, but in that stage, definitely more so, but I knew that. So I'm like, okay, I can't tap into my avoidance. I need to show up. Like, you know, so that was me doing that work of like, I am, this feels uncomfortable and weird sometimes, or it feels even a little forced on my end, but I know that ultimately what I want, like these actions are going to lead me to that. Yes. Yeah. So good. This is why I loved opening the conversation, talking about intentions, needs. This is like, if you ever feel confused or anxious or just uncertain, like, cause I know we get all those questions too, about like, oh, we have a first date and I didn't hear from them for a day, or, oh, we had a first date and now like, I haven't heard from him for 24 hours. I heard from her for 24 hours. Like come back to everything we've talked about thus far, your intentions, your needs, right? Your deal breakers. And it's going to be like, when you show interest and really show up as you and be intentional about the dating process, you're not going to get this wrong. And staying grounded in reality, because your anxiety is probably really loud in your head. Right? So it's like, can we turn down the volume? You're not getting rid of it. We're not getting rid of our anxiety. That's just not going to happen. Can we turn down the volume? If we turn up the volume on the reality of the situation, like, oh, we had our date on Sunday night. It is now Tuesday morning. It really hasn't been that long. I think it's okay. I agree. Going to ask one more question here. A classic, like, what if you're with someone, this early part of the dating process, you're getting to know each other and they're like blowing up your phone nonstop or the opposite. You feel like you never hear from them, but you want a little bit more. Okay. So yeah. Early dating, cue dates in. If they're blowing up your phone nonstop, either way, the answer is the same for both of these situations. You can speak up and say what you want and have a conversation about it. This isn't like the same as me asking my husband to like remember to put the seat down or something. Nothing does that. It's just the first thing that crossed my head. It's not like this like relationship conversation, just like, hey, when I'm getting to know someone, I prefer, and then fill in the blank. Like, I actually like getting to know you and I'm enjoying getting to know you and I want to hear from you more. What do you think? Or, you know what? I'm enjoying getting to know you, but the texting is making me feel a little, like there's a lot of texting. I want to have these conversations in person, right? Say what you want. And then, because with early dating, this is amazing because you have an opportunity to see how they're going to react. A great person, someone worth continuing to date, will be like, hey, thanks for telling me. I didn't realize. Or yeah, like totally, I totally get that. I can adjust. And the person who's, you know, going to blow up at you, like get mad at you or ghost you, not it. So good. Using like what you didn't say was, right? You're blowing up my phone. You're texting me too much. It's using those, instead you're using those I statements. Come back to- Yeah, I want, I like, I prefer, you know? So good. All right. Now we got to get into some emotional availability. I think that was a perfect transition into this part of the conversation. So how to know in this dating intentionally process, if how someone is emotionally available. I think you just alluded to some green flags in that answer, yeah. Yes, I actually have a whole episode on this that blew up on Spotify a few weeks ago about emotional unavailability more. But yeah, I think you have to kind of work on emotional availability in yourself to be able to notice this. So that's the, I know that's not the thing you want to hear probably, but you need to work on it yourself because you need to be emotionally available enough to communicate things. And that's how you can tell based on how they're receiving that. So if you are not emotionally available enough to even know how you're feeling, and if you're not able to communicate that, it's going to be hard to know if they are. Yeah. But let's just say for the sake of the example that you are and you've been working on yourself and you can communicate these things in a calm, clear, direct way. Yeah, how they respond to that is really important. Also, if you're telling someone you had a hard day, or if you're telling someone something hard about your life, how they react is also going to tell you a lot. But some people, I think some people are emotionally available, but they still can feel a little uncomfortable. That doesn't mean it's like an automatic, like, oh, you're a red flag if they didn't react perfectly. We're not looking for perfection, but we are looking for openness and maybe curiosity at the very least. Yeah. I think that's, it's also important because you want to be dating someone that can, yeah, ask you questions, but also just like when you are having a bad day or a hard time, like whatever's going on, just show you that consideration. Like you want to feel like you're building a true connection with someone that isn't just based on texting or isn't just based on looks or something like that. I want to say one thing about that though. Like you're, the person you've been on three dates with is not, it's not their job to console you. It's not really, like they can react in an empathetic way, but they're not going to sit there and be like, oh my God, come here. Like they're your best friend or something, you know? That's not their, so if they don't react that way, that's not a red flag. They're just like, it sounds weird, but they don't know you well enough to care that much yet. And that's okay. Yeah. Like you can be polite. You can be like, oh my gosh, like that sounds really hard. Like what happened? Tell me more. But they might not wrap you into a big hug and like console you and that's fine. Yeah. I completely, yeah, I understand that. It's a couple of harsh truths coming through. They're going to help you in the dating process. One, it's not someone's responsibility that you barely know have been on, yeah, three dates with to be your emotional regulator, right? The person to tell you it's all going to be okay, but also how emotional availability starts with you. Yeah. It really, no, it really does. I know. That's what I learned doing my episode of like, oh, if you're emotionally available, you're not going to be able to tell if other people are. Yeah. I was so mad when I figured that out. It's really frustrating. Yeah. And it's tough. And also it's a spectrum. Let's just also acknowledge that it's not like black and white, like you are, you aren't. Maybe you've been working on it and it's hard. Emotions are messy and hard and weird and they're invisible. They are. Yeah. And you can be emotionally available and still sometimes go on dates with people that aren't and you may not find that out until a few dates in. Yeah. It's possible. Yeah, I wanted to ask you, yeah, about emotional availability, because the different ways it can show up, because I think someone might be, right, they might present as very emotionally available where they're texting or they're really communicative, but then maybe when you get on dates, they're kind of withdrawn or shy, or they don't ask a lot of questions. It's like, can someone be available in one area, but maybe not in others? Yes. I mean, look, we don't always have to interpret a lot of texting as emotionally available. That might be more for them than you. Okay. You know, like that might be more to soothe their anxiety and to feel like whatever they're getting out of it, it's not really about showing you they're emotionally available. I think it really comes down to, again, their ability to hear no, to hear your boundaries, to be open to your preferences and what you need. For example, I think on our third, after our third or fourth day with my husband, he asked me, he's like, do you want to do, you want to hang out? And I was like, no, I actually want a night into myself. And he was like, I totally get that. And he just, and he didn't take it as like this big rejection. He asked me out again. You know, that to me was a sign of emotional availability because he didn't, he was receiving my no in the proper way. And I wasn't like, no, I never want to see you again. Right, right. I was just, I just said, I want a night into myself. Like, I'm really tired. And he was like, I feel that I get, you know, do you? And like, that was a sign. So I think practicing, using your boundaries, saying no, especially ladies, like for sex is a big one. Like if you are not ready and you want to take things slow, how a guy reacts to that is everything, everything. Yeah. So you can, there are some ways to show up. I think really you're going to see it when you, again, you have to communicate. It's not going to be, it's always going to be in response into something you're doing. It's not just going to show up. Okay. All right. I love that. And perfect segue into really the final part of the conversation is we start to, oh my gosh, this has gone by so quickly. Boundaries. Yeah. We got to talk a little bit about how boundaries come into dating intentionally. Yeah. It's, this is why I love dating. This is why dating is so fun, because even when things don't work out, you are practicing all these skills we're talking about, which will lead you into an amazing relationship, which will make you a great partner, right? So when it comes to boundaries, like there are some examples. One could be, I don't text, I don't look at my phone after 9 30. I'm chilling before bed, no screen time. And I don't do that. So if someone's hitting, blowing up your phone after 9 30, you need to uphold that boundary by not answering them. Like if you look at the, okay, I see they're texting me, they can wait. That's you enforcing your boundaries. And if they have a problem with that, then they're probably not a good fit for you. Right. So that's an example of what we're talking when we say boundaries. Okay. Yeah. And it's going to be so important, especially if you are dating multiple people at a time, maybe three, you're on the apps, even meeting people in person. Yes. Being really intentional with your boundaries so that you don't get overwhelmed. And if, you know, maybe that happens, but also so it allows you to keep focused on your life, right? You got to keep living your life during this process as well. You have your friends, your other relationships with family, neighbors, coworkers, your career, your education, your hobbies, your interests, your passions. Like having all of that at the end of the day is going to make you so much more attractive. Like, oh, I'm looking for that. I'm looking for someone that has something. Someone who has boundaries values themselves. Yes. Yeah. And it's not about keeping people out. Boundaries aren't used to keep people out. It's more used to, you know yourself and where your limits are and what you can tolerate. And, you know, boundaries are not like laws, you know, they can, I think there is a little bit of flexibility with them depending on every situation, but like, yeah, they're really about you, but also it's like you need to enforce them. And I think a big mistake people make with boundaries is you are not saying your boundaries proactively. They are reactive. You don't need to set one until someone has even come close to crossing one. Okay. Like, I don't need to say, I don't text after 930 if they're not doing that. Right, right, okay. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like they are reactive. Like you know them and you have them in your head and you know what they are. And you know that when someone is going to potentially cross one, you can then speak up and be like, you know what, actually, I'm not ready to take that step right now. You know, I'm not, I actually have, I'm going to yoga. I can't do it that night. Like, yeah. Me, always going to yoga. Yeah, you always do, yeah. But this is so good. And one of the mindset shifts and just lessons learned that really helped me in dating, I mean, recovering people pleaser very much so, Gay Libra, like, I feel like so many of the flirties are people pleasers as well. It's like, because we, you want to give people the benefit of the doubt. You want to see the goodness in people. You really want this to work if you're looking for that long-term connective relationship. And so you feel like you got to say, yes, you got to be available. But ultimately, boundaries are a form of self-respect, self-trust. And they're letting someone know, this is what I'm okay with. This is what I'm not. And this is, I have so much love and respect for myself. This is how I treat myself. And I'm not going to bend those rules for you. You know, they're not laws. They're not necessarily all set in stone. There can be some flexibility, some nuance, because life is about nuance, but ultimately it's letting someone know, like your boundaries are not to keep people out. It's ultimately to hopefully bring them closer in. Yes. Yeah. It gives them a better understanding of you. Absolutely. That's why it's really important to communicate them as needed. Yeah. When it's appropriate to, for sure. All right, Talia. A few listener questions here before we wrap up. I wanted to ask this one who this flirty says, how to date intentionally when you're a 41 year old woman who still wants kids, but they're feeling the time pressure? Yeah. I mean, I get this one a lot too, Benjamin. This is tough. And I just want to say my heart goes out to you. Like this is the time pressure, even if you're in your late twenties, early thirties, mid thirties, it's like always present. I can imagine it's even worse in your early forties. And I would say, look, this is, I don't like to sugarcoat things. I would say at that point, be open to alternatives. Can you have a kid on your own and continue to date? By the way, I had a woman on my podcast who's at 40, had a kid, and then she met her husband when her kid was like a year old. You know, and it's like, you can, you could have both. It just might not be in the order that you thought. Right. You know, also is adoption an option? Yeah. Are there other ways to enjoy children in your future family if the timing doesn't work out? So I think that's really what I would be way more open because the more you like put pressure on it, the harder dating is going to be. And then the less you'll like it and want to do it. And then you're kind of moving away from your goal. So the pressure isn't helping you, but I understand it's not, you're not going to get rid of it. But I think having openness is going to be really helpful in your journey. Yeah. That's so helpful. Cause yeah, I really struggle with answering that question cause it's just an experience I can't relate to. And for your podcast, Dating Tensionally, I feel like that was such a good episode. I feel like it was around episode 100. Yeah. It was actually, I think it was a hundred. Okay. I think it was my hundredth episode actually. Yeah. But that was really good. It was a story and just a, yeah, I had never heard before of someone like a dater, a woman who had expectations. And yeah, I mean, you want to have a family. You want to be a mom. I can certainly empathize with that, but then what if it doesn't look like exactly how I thought it would? Can I still make this happen? And she did. And also another thing is like, what if it doesn't, right? What if nothing you want happens? And that's why I have a whole thing like on my show about this, but it's like, what does your life look like when you don't get what you want and what's the best version of that life? And it makes you feel a lot more secure when you have that version mapped out. Absolutely. This flirty is asking about deal breakers and we've talked a little bit about them throughout, but I wanted to come back. And so for someone that is dating intentionally and maybe they're new to dating or getting back into dating after a long time, what are a few deal breakers or non-negotiables they should look for? I mean, assuming you're looking for a relationship, I would say anyone who says they don't know what they want or they don't want a relationship, or if they're like two weeks out of a relationship, maybe not your person. And so I say that's an odd amount of deal breaker. And I think if you're new to dating, this is very common. Maybe this applies to this listener. You're like, I don't know what's normal, but if it makes you feel uncomfortable, that's a deal breaker. If it's making you feel uncomfortable or weird, believe that gut feeling. Yes. Okay. That's really, really helpful. I like, in your dating toolbox, your intuition has to, it has to be there right alongside your needs, your boundaries, your intentions, all of that good stuff. One more question here I thought was really interesting and that is how to determine the difference between emotional availability and love bombing. I love this question. So love bombing isn't always malicious. It is always manipulative. Some people just do it because they get super excited about getting to know a catch like you and they just can't wait for all the things. So love bombing is like when someone is treating you in a way as if they've known you a lot longer than they've actually known you. That's my interpretation of it. If they're saying, there's nothing wrong with someone saying I love you when you're four or five months into the relationship, but if they're saying it after two weeks, it's like, okay, that's too early. That's love bombing. If they're saying, I can't wait for you to meet my parents and you've been on one date, love bombing. But if they say, I'm really excited to have you come bouldering with me and my friends after one or two dates, that's not love bombing. That's totally fine. That's casual. They're saying, oh, I'm excited. I have two concert tickets for next month and maybe we could go. Okay, that's a little far out for two dates, but that's not love bombing. That's just someone being excited to potentially take you to a concert. You know what I mean? That's not like, oh my God, we're getting married. Exactly. Does that make sense? Absolutely. If they're saying, I've never met anyone like you and they've only spent six hours with you, it's like, you've barely met me, bro. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, that is definitely giving love bombing. Yeah. Emotional availability is gonna be a little bit more, like it's gonna feel more appropriate based on how long you've known each other. Like, I'm excited to cook for you at my home on our fifth date. Fine. Great. Very fine. Love that. Oh my gosh. Talia, I thought I'd plug our first ever episode very quickly. The first episode of Flirtation's all about the slow burn where we echo some themes in the conversation today, but I think really focus more on the pacing of dating, whereas today was a little bit of a rapid fire. Yeah. How to date intentionally. Today was like an overview of the whole process of like from meeting to a couple dates. I love that. Absolutely. That was the storyline. That was the arc for the conversation today. My only other question before I send all the flirties your way, if they're not already following and listening is any other thoughts or yeah, anything that didn't come up in conversation you wanna share? Yes. I think I just want to encourage all the flirties listening to be a little more open, have a little more grace for people. Everyone's trying their best, even when people treat you shitty. It's like, okay, like everyone's going through stuff. Everyone has baggage. Like don't take things so personally, let things roll off your back and like protect your peace in a way. You know, that's what I wanna see more of in early dating with people. It's like, it's not all so life or death, you know? Yeah. I know what you mean, exactly. And I love ending there. And we didn't talk too much about the rejection piece of this. You know, like if you're dating someone, let's say for two or three months and then like, oh, it turns out I'm not feeling the connection kind of thing. Like ultimately, yeah, it's gonna sting if you receive news like that or if you have to deliver something like that. But coming back to this whole toolbox we've been building with your needs, your boundaries, your intentions, all of that good stuff, as long as you aligned your actions and your words with all of that and dated intentionally, sometimes, sometimes it's not forever. I mean, nothing's forever, Benjamin. That's the sad truth. I'm sorry to end on that note, but like nothing is, so it's like, you know, your relationship with yourself is really the only forever thing, I think. But that being said, yeah, every experience, see it more, find the lessons and it will feel less painful. That's really what I think. It's like when you find those lessons, everything that you have, even if it's a two-monther that ends, like what it can teach you is what you'll bring to the next thing and the next thing and the next thing and it keeps getting better. And then it's not, you know, sometimes it feels so personal, especially if it ended with someone saying something very personal, but it's not, it's not a reflection of your own, I don't know, what's the word I'm looking for, like partner self, like, yeah. It doesn't mean you're not gonna be a very great connection for somebody. Yes, and listen, if anyone has any questions for me specifically about my journey, you're welcome to reach out to me on Instagram at dating.intentionally. I answer my DMs, I love hearing from you and I love your podcast. I'm so glad that you have me back. Thank you. All right, they are gonna come over to Dating Done Intentionally. Also, your YouTube and your podcast is the same? Yeah, Dating Done Intentionally. Fantastic. I will have all the links in the show notes below. Flirties, if you're not already following and listening, what are you doing? Go do it. Thank you, Benjamin. Talia, thank you so much for coming back on the show. All right, flirties, that's a wrap on this episode of Flirtations from episode one to 101. Oh my God, thank you so much. What? I'm kind of mind blown here over at Flirt headquarters. Thank you, Talia Corn, for coming back on the show 100 episodes later. Oh my God. To share so much with us about how to date intentionally, how you dated in the dating process to find your, yes, now husband, congratulations again and how we can all date with more intention, focus, clarity, empowerment, confidence and just overall be less distracted, perhaps, less focused on external validation, all of that stuff and keep ourselves at the center of the dating process. We are the chooser. It really does. Like we have so much more control over this than sometimes we give ourselves credit for, especially when it gets, yeah, messy and confusing and I know emotions get involved, anxiety, all that good stuff. What a conversation we had here today. Thank you so much, Talia, for being back on the show. Definitely recommend checking out her podcast, her YouTube and Instagram pages, all so, so fantastic. The links will be here in the show notes below for this episode to listen and follow Talia if you're not already. Okay, Flirty, thank you to you for listening, for tuning in, for streaming wherever you may be in the world. None of this is possible without you. I do this all truly for you. Please rate, review, subscribe to the show if you haven't already, if you have. Thank you if you haven't. Now's a good time to drop five stars. Yeah, five stars and then share this episode or another with a friend, a family member, a coworker, someone you want to share some BFE, big flirt energy with. Okay, signing off officially here at Flirt Headquarters. My name is Benjamin. I'm the Flirt Coach and Gay Libra Flirty. Happy flirting.