JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon: Market leverage is high

And you recently told our former colleague Wilfred Frost in a podcast that you wouldn't be a buyer of treasuries, you wouldn't be a buyer of equities at these levels. Why is that? Well, treasuries, I just said, like already embedded in the marketplace, there are people's assumptions about inflation. My guess is that there's a higher odds for that than the other ones. Equities I should have said it that way. There are always equities you can buy, but asset prices are high. So stock prices, however you measure them, you know, in the top five or 10% of all-time measurement. But at any point in time, a stock could be a good buyer. That's true globally. So, you know, when you look around the world, no, you shouldn't speak generically about stock prices. So a lot of people have criticized market structure right now, levered ETFs, positioning and so forth. How concerned are you about the proliferation of levered ETFs on single stocks? Well, leveraged ETFs on their own are quite small, so I'd say not really. But there is what I call market leverage, prime broker leverage, hedge fund leverage, ETFs leverage, treasury arbitrage leverage. I'm double counting some of that. So market leverage is pretty high. Now, of course, we manage it client by client, you know, and so you've seen disasters that, you know, people lose a lot of money, nothing really happens. They just unwind it. But when you have that, you do have a higher chance that something will disrupt the market in a quick way and people get rattled over it, and that is a little high. And I just saw the Fed today is going to be looking at private credit. Again, I'm not worried about that systemically, but there may be some issues that the Fed should be looking at. Going back to the leverage that you're talking about, obviously a big high-profile example of that was situational awareness last week. JP Morgan was one of the bigger prime brokers to situational awareness, which was a now-collapsed AI-focused hedge fund. How much more stress do you see out there? It's still there, by the way. They unwound all that. Smaller. Smaller form. No, I think that market handles that very well. But when I talk about leverage, margin debt is the highest it's ever been. There's a lot of margin debt you don't see because it's not called margin debt, it's called other things. So it's that kind of leverage, some hidden, some public. We see a lot of it, and it's high. I'm not going to say it's systemic high, it's going to cause a disaster, but it's high. The worst thing is if you have actual losses in the marketplace, which would happen in 2008. It wasn't the leverage, it was the amount of losses that were going to be realized on mortgages.