ACU Chairman Matt Schlapp on CNN: 8/26/2016

I have Matt Schlapp, he's back with us today, chairman of the American Conservative Union and a Trump supporter, CNN presidential historian Tim Naftali, who is also co-director of NYU's Center for the United States of the Cold War, CNN political commentator Bill Press, who had supported Bernie Sanders as the Dem here, and Dana Bash is with us. So, great to have all of you. Happy Friday. Matt Schlapp, you first, sir. Why did I assume I was first here? I mean, I have love for you, Matt Schlapp. I enjoy having you on. So let's begin with Mr. Trump. I think Dana put it so well. I mean, Mr. Trump essentially maybe just doesn't totally know where he is right now on immigration. Hopefully, we all will have a better sense next Wednesday when he's in Phoenix. But do you have a sense on where he is, deportation force, legal status? If you don't have a criminal record, I mean, do you have a sense of where he is? I watched Anderson's interview last night, and I thought he actually made it very clear that there's no pathway to legal status or to citizenship or to any status if you have broken the laws and you're here illegally, and that in order to qualify for any type of status, you have to go home. And you know what's interesting for me, Brooke, is I worked for President George W. Bush in his first term, and it sounds very familiar to what President Bush was talking about near the end of his first term, where he said everybody, everybody, and he's considered a moderate and a centrist on immigration, everybody who was here illegally had to go home, fill out paperwork, demonstrate they could get a job, that they had proficiency in English and fill out all their paperwork, and then they could come back with some kind of status after they were approved. So people think that this is very harsh rhetoric. It's actually very consistent with where a lot of Republicans have been for a long time. But for those undocumented immigrants, let me just follow up with you, who have not broken the law and have been here for years and years, what happens to them? I think that's where some of the confusion is coming. Right. But all I'm saying is what President George W. Bush said in the early 2000s is everybody, everybody who was here illegally had to go home. They called it a fact. And you had to demonstrate to the American people that you understood that you had broken the law, that you had to demonstrate that you wouldn't be on welfare, that you would speak, you would have proficiency in English, that you that you couldn't be a habitual lawbreaker and that you could get a job. And these are very basic and common sense requirements. It's Trump uses different rhetoric, which causes people to draw different conclusions. But the policy itself is quite sane. And I think a lot of Republicans support it. All right. We'll come back to the touchback. But Bill, perhaps I know you were shaking your head. Go ahead. Well, first of all, look, President George W. Bush put forth a comprehensive immigration reform plan, which was a good plan supported by Republicans and Democrats at the time, shot down by some right wing talk show host. It was a plan that President Obama has and President Obama. Let me just say now it's my turn. He was a senator. It's my turn. OK. And and Donald Trump does not stand for that at all. Don't link him with George W. Bush. Here's the problem, Brooke. You know what? This is a total scam. There's no change. There's just talk about maybe a change. There's total confusion. I watched that interview last night. I listened to his last three speeches. I've listened to every every interview he's given. Nobody knows where the hell Donald Trump stands today on immigration. As far as we know, he is still for building the wall. He is still for a deportation force to deport 11 million people. He's hinted that might change. He hasn't changed anything. I think we're all just being sucked in to talk about something that's not happening. He is exactly where he is on his signature issue. And if he's not, then too bad for the campaign, because this is Labor Day and he better figure out where the hell he stands. I feel like I'm hearing two totally different things. And you hear him use the word scam. I know even Hillary Clinton saying, let's take Trump at his word. He's the one, you know, let's believe what he said initially about Mexicans being, you know, rapists and drug dealers. But yet let me. I love Matt. I love Bill. Yeah. And they both have a good point. Let me tell you, because I was there covering George W. Bush. Matt is exactly right. He worked very hard to do comprehensive immigration reform in 2005, 2006. And guess what happened? It split the Republican Party open and it opened it helps open one of the initial massive divides within the party, the establishment versus the base. I mean, but this is a big, big, big problem and he didn't get it done. And it wasn't because of, I mean, it wasn't part because of Democrats. This is where Matt is right. People like Barack Obama did support amendments at the time that even some senior Democrats like Ted Kennedy said, don't do it. But that was from the left. That was a different issue. But I guess the bottom line is that if Donald Trump is explaining and putting forward immigration reform, that is like George W. Bush. Bye bye, Sarah Palin. Bye bye, Ann Coulter. And bye bye, a lot of the conservatives that Matt knows very well that comes to his conference, that come to his conferences and support conservative candidates, not somebody like Donald Trump. And Tim, I want to bring you in on this too. Not somebody like a Jeb Bush or even a Marco Rubio. Might he then be expanding the tent if he sort of does that versus stayed and stays with the deportation force rhetoric? Therefore, maybe he loses Sarah Palin, but grows others. I've learned not to predict in this campaign. You do history. But I would like to build on what Dana just said. If you go to the Donald Trump last summer, a year ago, and you follow him through just a month ago, the rhetoric he was using on immigration was the rhetoric of the opponents to George W. Bush. The far right, what's now called the alt right, the tough right, whatever you want to do, the people who hated the idea of comprehensive immigration reform, because for them that meant letting people who broke the law get away with it. For others, there was a racial component. Let's focus on the issue of breaking the law. That was their rhetoric. He endorsed it. He embraced it. He used it. And those people powered him through the early primaries. Then for a number of other reasons, he ultimately wins. For him now to turn against them and to start to talk even a little bit like George W. Bush leaves him without any base at all. Leaves him without any base at all. Because the other Republicans don't like. Where are they going to go? Matt, do you agree with that? Here's what we're missing. All I'm trying to get to is everyone gets caught up in the words and politics. Words are important. Well, words matter. But they do. That's fair. But the policy underneath it has been consistent the whole time. The bright line test for the type of people that come to CPAC, Dana, is I really think it's this question of amnesty. It's this question of if you came to the country illegally and you're allowed to just kind of get a pardon and stay here and carry on, I think that's obnoxious to a lot of people. A lot of them think touchback is amnesty. And you know this. I mean, listen, if Jeb Bush heard you say that George W. Bush's policy is like Donald Trump's, I think he would be under the covers. I talked to the Bush campaign at the time. And the fact is, is this, is Jeb Bush made a mistake because actually what Trump is saying on the bottom line is that you're going to have to follow the law. And once you follow the law to the T, there is a chance to come back here if you can meet certain specifications. I actually think that strikes a very reasonable chord. Let's start looking at the policies and stop looking at all the heat around them. Hey, Brooke. Bill, press quickly. Then I want to move on to the next thing. I just want to come back to the fact that nothing has changed. Donald Trump over a year ago said build a wall, deport 11 million people. That's his position today. Yes. As not changed. I agree with Bill. Okay. Okay. We have Trump next Wednesday on immigration. Let's create this. Then stay with me. You are a fascinating panel. I have more bringing my panel back. Tim Naftali to you first. And she used in that alt-right speech yesterday. What do you have to lose? Trump's line, her answer, everything. Again, using Trump's own words against him. Effective? Will it stick? Hillary Clinton has been most effective in my mind when she lets Trump speak for Trump. When she starts to attack him, it then looks like a brawl and Americans don't like brawls. Ads that use Trump to describe Trump, I think would be more effective than her coming on and saying he's a racist. Bill Press, what do you think? Well, first of all, I say score Hillary. We are not today talking about the Clinton Foundation, Brooke, which we talked about two days ago. We're not talking about the Clinton emails. I think she laid a trap for Donald Trump. And he walked right into it. She said she was going to give a speech talking about his dog whistle campaign. He went out first, attacked her as a bigot. And that's all we've been talking about ever since. So I think the idea that Donald Trump could stay on message, he's failed yet again. Clinton scores. Well, on the other hand, actually, hang on, hang on, Matt. I know you want to jump in because I have this ad. I know you've seen it on Instagram from Donald Trump. Roll it. They are often the kinds of kids that are called super predators, no conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heel. You called out President Clinton for defending Secretary Clinton's use of the term super predator back in the 90s when she supported the crime bill. Why did you call him out? Because it was a racist term and everybody knew it was a racist. So again, it's important context. She she made the super predator comment. That was in 96. That was when she was stumping for her during the election, stumping for her husband's criminal justice reforms. And you saw even in the debates this past cycle at our own debate when Bernie Sanders called it racist. So, Dana, back and forth this, you're a racist, you're a bigot. I mean, this further as Donald Trump is hoping to prove his point against Hillary. Right. You know, and when Anderson was asking for that proof, you know, he was talking, Donald Trump was answering just broadly about how he wanted to pin him down on what group. Exactly. So this kind of specificity, Donald Trump didn't have at his fingertips. He talked broadly about his new kind of line of attack that Hillary Clinton, like all Democrats, have have not helped the inner cities. They tend to run the inner cities across the country and they're in bad shape. But but on the personal attack that he made against her, calling her a bigot, he didn't have that at his fingertips. And his campaign clearly did. And they wanted to bolster what he was saying. And that's why they put this out there. But as you said, I think you said, but we should sort of point this out. Hillary Clinton, at the beginning of this campaign, very explicitly said she would never regret it. Yes. And she would never say that today. Yes. Yes. Match slap. You know, this he skipped over the bigot line during the speech yesterday. He used it again when he was talking to Anderson, although to Dana's point, he had a tough time specifying how she she was bigoted or to whom she was bigoted. And then you have this Instagram video. Right. You know, I think I like I said, I watched this interview with Anderson. What Trump said at one point is that her policies are bigoted because what's ended up happening, and this is a big conservative versus liberal argument, which is we've had, you know, since Lyndon Baines Johnson, we've had these great society programs which have nearly bankrupted the country. And look at the vulnerable communities. Look at the diverse communities. Are they better off or are they worse off? Now, they're much better off because we passed civil rights legislation and they were empowered with their constitutional civil rights, which is a good thing that America did. But the policies themselves, these big spending, freewheeling, left wing policies have actually broken down the families and left them more vulnerable. I think Trump's point has to be that these big spending policies that that Hillary Clinton does nothing but how she would reform or change are actually what should be the centerpiece. Once again, I wish we would focus on these policies and less on these words. Hey, Brooke, I want to invite myself to Matt's next conference. I'll be glad. I'll be glad to. I'll be glad to debate him on the differences for the African-American community between the policies of the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. But that's not the issue. Look at the poverty rate. Look at the unemployment rate. The issue here, if I may, is that Donald Trump called Hillary Clinton a bigot, which Dana pointed out without any specifics when pressed by Anderson Cooper. No specifics whatsoever. Hillary Clinton did not call Donald Trump a bigot, but she said he's done some racist things. And she came down with a treasure chest of things, starting with calling all Mexicans rapists, saying a Mexican judge couldn't give a fair trial or couldn't come up with a fair verdict. He's been sued by the Department of Justice for not renting to two minorities on and on and on, calling for a ban on all Muslims, deporting 11 million people. Where do you start? Where do you end? And I think that's a very telling indictment of the kind of campaign that Donald Trump is running, ending with the hiring of Steve Bannon as his CEO, who calls his website a platform for the alt-right. Like saying all the alt-right are welcome in my campaign. That hurts, Matt. I don't think you can have it both ways. Hillary Clinton went to the convention in Philadelphia and said we shouldn't be using this harsh rhetoric and we shouldn't be crossing these lines. Her whole campaign is about using very harsh rhetoric for making all of us who are conservative feel like we're haters or racists. No, no, no. Deny that Donald Trump did all the things or said all the things Hillary said. You can lie because you know he didn't. Let's do a segment. He said the segment. Okay, I'm ready. Let's go. Hang on, hang on. Quick button on your reporting, Dana Bash, on the positive sit-down meeting with Trump and senior staff yesterday. Just 30 seconds. Well, Bill was talking about Steve Bannon being now at the head of the Trump campaign. He is somebody who spent a lot of time, really his whole political career, not only running against Democrats, but the establishment inside the Republican Party. So the open question when he took over was, would the Trump campaign still be working hand-in-glove with the Republican National Committee, which they have been? The answer appears to be yes, because I'm told that top staffers from the RNC came to New York yesterday, sat down with Trump officials, and I'm told by multiple sources that it was a very positive, constructive meeting talking about how to go forward together to win battleground states. Got it. Dana, Tim, Matt, and Bill, thank you all so much. Appreciate it. Happy weekends.