What Reality TV Can Teach You About Copywriting

Testing, testing. 1, 2, 3. Diamond download. Diamond download. Chase, can you hear me loud and clear? Gotcha, brother. Welcome to the microphone game. Dude, it feels different. It feels different. I feel like I sound different. I feel like I look different. Are you recording some content? Is that why? No, I bought... Well, yeah. I'm always recording, dude. But yeah, no, I got this because I saw everyone else had it and I'm a typical bandwagon guy. This is what I do. Bro, so I'm sick right now. And I know it doesn't look like it, but I've actually gotten quite a bit of a tan, but I still look white as a ghost. I wish you could see my tan, but I think I'm just pale because I'm sick. But I don't know. My nose is a little dried out, so hopefully most of our listeners are audio only this week. You still look great for what it's worth. Let's do this, man. I'm excited. Yeah, let's run it. Okay. Topic number one. And this is something that I really wanted you to talk about. Okay. So I'll ask you this. So personal brands. It's a very powerful tool. How do you monetize it if you don't want to have a course? What can we do? So no course, but are other things allowed, like coaching, things like that? If you don't want to sell info. Coaching, maybe, but that's info to me. Okay. What about a newsletter? Is that allowed? Yes. Okay. So no coaching, no courses. So if I was to monetize a personal brand, I'd do a couple of things. One would be a newsletter. And on the newsletter, you can make money a couple ways. One would be a free newsletter with advertisers. The second would be potentially a paid newsletter. The third would be a newsletter, no advertisers, but you're pushing something that's an affiliate offer, whether it's some SaaS company, agency service, maybe someone else's course, right? Maybe you don't want to have a course, and maybe you're down to promote someone else's course. Services, right? I would launch a product or service, some kind of agency. Maybe even potentially teach people, not teach people, but I guess I've done for you of how to grow someone else's personal brand. So you built up a personal brand, let's say, on TikTok or LinkedIn or Twitter to 100,000. Can you have an offer where you help people grow their own following? So more of a done for you or a done with you than kind of like a traditional standalone course. Those are the first ones that come to mind for me. Okay. I'm really curious how the newsletter revenue works. And you don't have to share your numbers, but how do newsletter guys get paid? Do these guys make money or is it sort of like, how does that actually work? Yeah. I mean, some of the big ones make money. So I think you could monetize a personal brand newsletter and or social posts. Right now I'm doing both. So typically I'll sell packages that include a newsletter ad, a tweet, and a LinkedIn post. And there are X thousands of dollars for someone to buy a package of that. So what someone will basically do is, at least I require them to write the copy, or I might write the copy if I really like them or really know them. And they'll pay kind of a fixed fee. I have like a media kit. So I've got like a 20 to 30 slide deck where in there I talk about myself a little bit, my audience, the size, the metrics, locations, the jobs. And then I have pricing. And there's a price for one post or a price for one newsletter ad. And then there's bulk pricing. And most people go for like the bulk pricing. So most people are charging based off a thousand impressions. Typically your opens on a thousand people. Or some people are even charging on a thousand cents. So for example, say you have 100,000 people on your list. So it would be 100,000. So 100 is the metric. So maybe your cost per thousand is 20. So you take 100 times 20. And that would be basically $2,000 that you're charging for a newsletter ad based off the impressions or based off the value you can bring. So everyone's typically charging based on some negotiated CPM typically. On social media, that might be $10 or $20. On the case of like a LinkedIn, maybe $30 for a newsletter. Depending on the niche, it could be anywhere from maybe $10 to upwards of like $60 to $80 per thousand people that are receiving or opening it. So some newsletters can make a lot of money. They have high engagement and a really attractive audience. Have you seen anyone killing it in particular with a newsletter that's not the hustle? Do you know anyone who's really ripping with a newsletter? Yeah, these guys, they're brothers. They have one that's like an AI newsletter. They've got about 600,000 subs right now. 700,000 subs. I think it's called superhuman. And they're really cool guys. A lot of their stuff came from Twitter and LinkedIn. I think they run some paid spam. But I think they send five or seven times a week. And they're having to now add more slots to their newsletter to be able to make more money. They've maxed out the sponsorships. They've maxed out their ads. I mean, they're probably doing, I'd imagine, low to mid-seven figures in revenue on their newsletter. Obviously, everyone knows the hustle and morning brew. I'd imagine people like Justin Welch and others are probably charging $5,000, $10,000, $20,000 every time they press send. So, if they're sending a weekly email, you can make $5,000, $10,000, $20,000 off a send. I think Nick Sharma's charging a lot of money for his weekly newsletter. So, I think a lot of people that have personal brands and good newsletters probably are doing mid to high six figures off a newsletter a year. Maybe more, potentially. So, it really is how you build the audience. The demographics really matter. Because you can get way better CPMs off, I guess, big five countries. Yeah, location matters. The type of audience. Are you targeting of a company the CEO? Is it a marketing manager? Is it an intern? What are the titles? What are the companies? Are they working at Fortune 500 companies? Are they working on a small startup that's a one-person, two-person company? So, there's a lot of factors that kind of play into how much you can charge, how much you can make, that type of thing. How many clicks you have, how many opens, those types of things. Interesting. Yeah, I've always been curious about that model. Because a lot of people talk about newsletters being pretty easy to build and pretty easy to monetize. And then I saw Sam actually, I think, tweeted the other day. I don't know if you saw this, but he said newsletters kind of suck. Something like that. I didn't see that. I don't know if he was joking or not, but I don't know. I thought, I don't know if you saw that, but I thought it was strange. But I think that's a common thing. A lot of founders seem to sort of resent the business they built before. And once they move on, they're like, oh, that sucked. Dude, that's kind of how I feel about newsletters. It sucked. It was not fun. I actually had to tweet about that. Because I see all these guys who have B2B lead gen agencies. And I'm just like, damn, that sounds awful. That sounds like the worst possible thing to build. It just sounds so boring. And these guys wake up and they just love it. I don't know. So maybe I'm just a Scrooge. That's funny. Let's use you as an example. So I think you've got probably 80,000 to 100,000 engaged active subs, give or take. I think actually engaged is like 60K. Okay, so male 80K or 90K. Maybe male six figures, let's say. And you have about 60,000 of them that are active and engaged. So for you, you could probably charge, depending on the company, at least a couple grand per cent. Or you have a sponsored ad in it. And you'd probably want to find, I mean, maybe not you. Because obviously you like human writers, not AI writers. But for example, if you cared or liked AI, maybe you'd have some of the big AI writers. Whether it's OpenAI with ChatGBT or insert any of the others. Maybe they would sponsor you or maybe they would buy all your placements to be the person and whatnot. Other people would be maybe software for freelancers or consultants or copywriters. Maybe there's a software out there that helps them manage their contracts and manage their invoices and their billings. I actually can't say anything about this because I don't have the link yet. But I'll tell you after. Dude, I got pitched by this guy who has a SaaS. Which is like the perfect fit. The perfect fit for my audience. Like for the people who have bought stuff from me before or the people that are thinking about it. It's like a lower ticket SaaS. And dude, this might be the play. I'm looking at this now. I'm super excited to try it. Dude, I want to talk about this, but I can't. Yeah, don't talk about it yet. Once we get something done, because we're going back and forth. And I think he's still working on the infrastructure. He used to say this. The copy and BA list is really big. You should try getting sponsors on it. It's like, dude, I'd rather just sell my thing. I'd probably make more money with that. But this is one of those things where it's probably the only thing that makes sense as a SaaS to push. And it might be sick. Yeah, it's interesting. I think you're definitely right. More often than not, if you press send on your own thing versus someone else's, you'll make more money. But you're not always going to be selling. A lot of your emails are value-based. Think about in your value-based if you had halfway through or a quarter of the way through a sponsor. Where majority of the message that people are receiving is just the value you're giving. But if you're sending a daily newsletter, let's say, if you're sending four or five times a week and you just literally plug in a sponsor. It's three to five sentences, four to eight sentences, whatever it is. It doesn't detract from the newsletter. And every time you press send, you're making $2,500 just to write. Dude, you do that five times a week, right? You do it four times a week. Let's say you do it four times a week. That's $10,000 a week. And over the course of a month, again, obviously, you have to assume that you can get four sponsors a week at that price and whatnot. But at scale, if you could really figure that out, that's $40,000 just to provide value to people that you then reinvest. So that's kind of how I look at it. If I promote my own stuff, if I promote my LinkedIn service or promote my agency, I'll make more on that send. But I can't promote my own stuff every single time. There's just going to be dilution. And I want to incorporate other companies and pools. And then this past week, I had Walmart sponsor my stuff. By me sending to Walmart, that just adds a lot of legitimacy to me. I signed Dropbox, and I'm about to sign Notion. I just signed a bunch of these big sponsors. I'm in talks right now with Amazon on promoting their buy with Prime. And sometimes just some of these are a credibility thing where it's like, great logo, great case study. I'll make some good money. And the fact that those are reaching out, it's all inbound. The fact that they're reaching out to work with me is a huge stamp of approval. So I think there's other intrinsic value as well that I get from it. I mean, that's sick. If Walmart wasn't sponsoring me, I'll take it. Yeah. I think your brand, it really makes sense for what you push. Because on Twitter and LinkedIn, a lot of your content is helpful stuff that freelancers or business owners or high-level employees should have. AI tools or recruiting tools or little tools. You know what I mean? I think that makes sense. My stuff is a lot more brain dumpy. So when I tweet, it's usually just off the dome. I don't really tweet copywriting tips. And when I write e-mails, do you get my e-mails? Yeah, I do. I open some of them. I do. Some of them? What? All right. Well, I get them on four of my e-mail addresses. So sometimes I open it on one and they all erase. They're kind of like mine together. I open them and then I kind of skim some of them. I read others. But I'd say I read more often than not. Okay. That's good. Yeah, no. I had that for you for a while, too, where you were on all five of my e-mail addresses. And I was like, dude, I got to cut this down. So I don't know if you guys were unsubscribers on one random day back like six months ago. But I'm sorry. I had to do that. It's all good, man. You're forgiven. It's so funny. My girl texted me last week. She was like, I don't know how, but I think I ended up on Chase Diamond's e-mail list. She spelled it like diamond with the A and then a little fairy emoji. That was cute. I was like, how did you get there? I don't know how that happened. She must have hit my side. And I got Adam's tool set up. So anyone that like somehow views a site or views an article or views anything is is in the ecosystem. Let's just say that. Okay. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I have to remind her. Sweetheart e-mails opt out. Can spam does not exist in Venezuela. Yeah. But yeah. Anyway, I just thought it was cool. What are we talking about? Oh, yeah. Like, yeah. I feel like my style of content. I don't know if it would really make sense to do like newsletter blogs, but like, dude, once I locked down this, this affiliate deal, I think I might be cool. But it has to be organic where it's like, I can't just like have some sort of thing where it's like, we interrupt this message with, you know, something from triple whale. You know, I feel like that would be super weird. But if I was like, if I like told her the story where it was like, yo, like, you know, I was walking down the street one day and I saw this billboard. I was like, oh, what's triple whale? You know what I mean? Like, I feel like I could kind of slide it in, but everyone would be like, bro, what are you doing? You know what I mean? Yeah. I feel like my audience would call me out on that one. Well, I'm excited to see what happens with it. So we'll circle back to that. Yeah. I'm already a dirty course seller, bro. If I start slinging ads, dude, they'd be like, this guy sucks. Okay. You ready to move on? Let's do it. All right. Topic number two. What we can learn about copywriting from reality TV. So you watch The Bachelor ever? Yeah. We're watching the current season. My wife loves it. Really? Did you? Okay. Did you see the episode last night? I think we're halfway through. We watched some of it. We haven't finished it. Okay. I haven't seen it. So don't spoil it yet. Okay. I was talking to my dad about this on the phone. And like, my dad is like very old school. Like, he's a cop. He's going to retire in like four years, like older guy. Very like, you know, I don't want to say he's closed minded because like there is some stuff that he would like. But like when I told him when he found out that his eldest son was watching The Bachelor all weekend last weekend with his girlfriend, he was probably thinking like, what have I done? Where did I go wrong? Right. So I had to like sort of defend myself really quick. And I ended up coming up with a pretty decent argument as to why it's actually market research. So like, so tell me, is Jamie utterly obsessed with The Bachelor? Um, she enjoys the franchise, like The Bachelor, Bachelorette, Bachelor in Paradise. She really likes that. She has other ones that she likes more, like she's really into Love is Blind and a couple of these other ones. Yeah. Those are all new though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In high school, I was watching with my mom and my mom's husband, a guy that he went to school with is the producer. They're not like they're not friends. I haven't spoke since high school or college or middle school, whatever. But he was like friendly growing up with the producer of The Bachelor. So we've known about it since the beginning. I've been watching since I was in high school. OK, yeah. So that makes sense. So, so, dude, I think it's genius because like they have like maybe not your wife, but like some of my girls friends and some women out there are obsessed with The Bachelor, like obsessed. They treat it like a sports league. Yeah, we're not. We're not that extreme. We enjoy it. Like some women will like will full on like place bets on like who's going to win and like they analyze it like they're watching the NFL. It's insane. And so what I noticed when I watched it was, number one, like I'm curious on your thoughts to like how they've managed to retain an audience like a cult like following for like two or three generations, I guess. Like almost three decades. And also like how they like run the show, like how they like get, you know, people to like do certain things like, OK, so I talked, you know, was it last week about the Copy Olympics? Yeah. And how like we're going to try and make it like a YouTube series or a YouTube show. And like while it's happening, like we did the draft yesterday, like all the coaches picked their people and like all the people, all the students like and stuff. And the whole time I was like, how can I make this like cinematically? How can I make this like something that captures people's attention? Like how can we make it interesting? Yeah. And do like the people that are running The Bachelor or like any shows like that are geniuses with the way that they can sort of like pull emotions out of people and like stress certain situations and like make things more dramatic than they actually are. I feel like it's such a skill to have as like a marketer where it's like that's a that's marketing where it's like making people care about something that might not even be that relevant. That's like the definition, you know what I mean? So I think it's very interesting like how they've been able to do those two things where it's like on a micro level, making each show something that makes you like just sitting there like, you know, what is going on? And also generationally making this something that people care about for decades. It's crazy. Yeah, dude. There's so much psychology embedded in there. Like and at this point to like, you know what the host is going to say, you know what The Bachelor and Bachelor it's going to say. Right? Like they just have like these lines that are just I think they're familiar and they're comfortable. Right? And like, I think we want to think we're all smarter than we are. And the fact that we can kind of predict the storyline. It's like, of course, they're going to keep the villain. Right? And she's going to get the last rose. And then I just think the whole way they set it up is great. And I also think there's like self-fulfilling prophecies where it's like it's on one of the best stations on one of the best days at the best time. Right? So it's almost like what else you're going to watch on a Monday night at 8 p.m. Right? It's like you're going to watch The Bachelor. Right? And I think to like with social media, like these people became like celebrities making personalities. Although my wife said that a lot of people, a lot of girls would go on The Bachelor or Bachelorette. A lot of guys would go on to become Instagram famous. And that allure has actually kind of died off a little bit. Although I think this current season has been one of like the highest rated, you know, it's kind of coming back a little bit. I think there's definitely ebbs and flows. I also think to like, it's not just The Bachelor, it's The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, and then Bachelor in Paradise where like they string you along for three out of the four seasons of the year. And I think Dancing in the Stars is kind of somewhere in there. Right? So I just feel like the repetition, you know, the primetime showing, the psychology, the characters. I mean, I think there's something really interesting and unique about one person dating all these people that like just isn't real life. So there's just so much to it that it's just like, it's a little bit overwhelming when you try to break it down. Yeah. It's weird, bro. It's weird that like, you're like, these people get married at the end. Yeah. And the success rate is like pretty high. Like, it seems like everyone kind of stays together. Like, well, they get engaged and then they get married. And you know, it's kind of grim and scary. They own you forever. Like, once you do the show, like, you never, you can never leave. Like, you have to come back for reunions and stuff like that. It's not like you just did it one time and it's like, oh, that was fun. No, it's like the Hunger Games, bro. Yeah, it's interesting. By the way, what do you think of Joey? I think he's cool. He seems like a good dude. He seems like one of the better dudes they've had. I've got nothing bad to say yet. You kind of look like him. Do I? A little bit, actually. Now that I think about it. Wow. Yeah. You kind of look like Joey. Yeah. I don't know if I do. It's so funny. There's a show, Love is Blind, which is on the sixth season. There's this lady that's getting so much flack on social media. I don't know if you've seen it or if you have. It probably doesn't mean anything to you, but she said that she was told that she looks like Megan Fox and the whole point of the show. Did you see that clip? I saw it, yeah. I'm not following the show, but I saw that clip, yeah. This is going to be my moment where I'm going to go tell everyone that Mason said I look like Joey, right? I don't know if that's true or not, but this girl is getting so much flack for that comment, which is just so funny. I mean, from what I saw, she kind of looks like Megan Fox, I guess. You know what I mean? I don't think so. But anyways, we'll agree to disagree. I don't think so. The other girl that he could have chose, I think, looked more like her. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Well, either way, I think he's good. You know what I mean? Yeah, Joey's cool. Joey's cool, yeah. What do you think? This guy that's choosing between a girl that kind of looks like Megan Fox and a girl that really looks like Megan Fox. Well, the girl that kind of looks like Megan Fox, I don't think looks like her at all, in my opinion. The other girl that he didn't choose looks more like her. I mean, if, yeah. Anyways, this was a good segment. Do we have one more? Yeah. Are you done talking about reality TV? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, dude. So you've been foreshadowing this for weeks now, which sounds like you've taken something from, you've left us on cliffhangers like the Bachelor producers do. Yeah. But we really want to know what happened with the educational email course. Do you have any numbers to talk about now? Yeah, some. It's been interesting. I'm indifferent. I think there's a lot of good and bad to it. One is, you know, there was 6,000 or 7,000 people that signed up. A lot of people were never on my list before. So as like an acquisition tool of getting people into the ecosystem, overall it's pretty good, right? Got maybe a couple thousand new people in. That was cool. I've gotten right around about a dozen conversions. So not huge in terms of dollars. Every one is 500 bucks. So, you know, about six grand of MRR. So neither here nor there. I'm happy about it, but I was expecting more as a percentage at like a conversion rate. It was lower. The part that I'm really excited to see is like the long tail of it. I've got probably two or three times as many people that have signed up emailing me. Let's say there's a dozen people that have actually paid. I've had maybe 24 to 36 other people say, hey, hold a slot for me. I want to do this. I just need to get my content in order, or I need to convert my other content from other social platforms to be written. So I have 12 hard conversions with probably, you know, based off two or three dozen more, probably another dozen, dozen and a half going to commit and sign in the next 30 days outside anyone else that joins. And so that's promising. And then I sent out a survey today that people have finished the journey. So there's been about 4,000 of the six or 7,000 people have actually received all of the emails. I sent out a survey today to them kind of requesting more information to kind of turn this into like a weekly or biweekly series where every week or every other week, I'm sending these people LinkedIn content kind of just to keep building the trust and string them along. So I'd say overall more positive than not, but I was hoping for like a half a percent, 1% conversion rate, like initially, as soon as people went through after the two weeks. So I was hoping to have like at this point, 40 or 50 people signed up where I have about 12, but I've got the commitments to be kind of close. So fingers crossed. Okay. A couple of things there. So number one, people talking about all you need to get my content in order. You know what that tells me Chase? What's up? That tells me low ticket. That tells me low ticket, how to do LinkedIn content by Chase. Okay. I like that. Anything that works like that. Um, for LinkedIn specifically, no, nothing yet. Okay. I feel like you could make a PDF with like a couple of videos on it that would fulfill that duty and act as a lead magnet and eventually get people in. You wouldn't, it wouldn't be like a thing that you make billions of dollars on, but that's supposed to be, you know what I mean? I feel like if you have like a $49 thing, a low ticket offer, here's how you do LinkedIn content. I mean, you've seen enough content. you can, you can have a ghostwriter come in and like, you know, add some ideas if it makes sense, which would also help it sell. Dude. I feel like that would be solid also. And this is something that people need to understand. I don't know if many people understand that like influencers like you and me, like there, there is really no such thing as like a 2% conversion rate unless you're doing a webinar. Yeah. In which case, like there's so many different types of conversions you've had to get before that point, like from, you know, add to clicking on the page from clicking on the page to actually signing up, from signing up to actually showing up and then from showing up to like staying all the way. And if I'm staying all the way to hearing the pitch and then like buying like you, you can get, you know, a five to 10 conversion percent conversion rate on the people that stay versus like how many buy, but like getting like a 2% on anything is like insane. Like that's not usually how it works. Like a lot of people think like if you were, I send an email that, and we have like a, an offer where it's like even just to book calls, like you think you're going to book like 50 calls or alphabet does not work out. Yeah. Like you, you'll book, you know, on, on 50,000 people. Sometimes you book 10 calls. Um, I think it's important for people to know. Cause like a lot of like not, or like inexperienced marketers think that they can just like, if you're not doing email marketing, they can come into your business and just like, Oh, you have a list of 50,000. Like I'm, I'm going to get you a 2% conversion rate on a nine 97. You're going to make a billion. You know what I mean? Like doesn't, doesn't work like that. So I think it's important people know that. Oh yeah. Yeah. We'll see. It's been, I'm optimistic. If, if the people that have emailed me asking to hold their spot actually closed, we're in a good spot. We're in a really good spot. It can go from like six to I don't know, 20 something thousand MRR, which I'd be happy about that for, you know, a lead magnet that we built. So we'll see. I'll have more info coming soon, but that's the initial. Okay. I still think you should do a webinar. Okay. I'm going to come to you this Thursday. Take some notes. Oh yeah. I forgot I'm doing that. That'd be great. Yeah, man. Well, this is a good episode. I appreciate you. I think our sound quality was phenomenal as well. Massive upgrade. We need to get sponsored by some microphone companies. Maybe. All right. Thanks for watching everybody. I'll see you on Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn. Peace. Cheers brother. Bye.