Tom Cruise talks fearing death, dreaming big and being misunderstood

You have literally ridden a motorcycle off the edge of a cliff and then deployed a parachute. You've hung off the side of multiple different styles of airplane. My question to you is, do you fear death? You gave me one good tip, which was look at the bright eye. Yes, this eye. This bad eye right there. Anything else I need to know before we get started? No, no, you're good, you're good. From our most decorated screen actor alive. You got to look at the eye line. Which eye line do you want? All right, which of my eyes will you be looking at? I'll be looking at your left one. Okay, that's good to know. But both, I can see both. Don't focus so hard on that. I want to start here. Digger is arguably the first non-action, non-franchise film you've made in quite some time. What took so long? It's a movie that I've wanted to make. I have tremendous admiration for Alejandro. I saw his film, Amores Perros, very early on. Pretty much before, I guess, anyone in town seen it. I understood what he did in terms of what he accomplished with that storytelling, and the immersion, the detail of his framing, the colors of the actors, the performances, things that I knew, the resources that he must have had to make that, and just the overall power of that communication. Part of the reason I was asking the question, I was thinking as I was getting ready for this, there's a generation of audiences, a younger generation, that might only know you at this point as an action star. Surprisingly, that's not true. It's very interesting where you look at audiences that are seasoned. When you look at cable, when you look at Netflix, and you go to a premiere, there's three, four generations of people that are there in the same way that they know The Beatles. That whole generation where they understand a level of music from the 40s, 50s, 60s. Those things we've discovered in terms of how a library travels globally. That's a thing that's, I know, it's fascinating. Yeah, because I think there was a time when it seemed like the way you thought about your film career was seek out the Iñárritu's of your generation. Steven Spielberg, Paul Thomas Anderson, Michael Mann, Stanley Kubrick, and work with them. But it seemed like somehow you started thinking about your film career in a different way. Never have. I've never thought of it. It's always an evolution. For me, it's been something where it's a constant challenge of one step to the next. Things that I've never talked about, the things that I've done have been very deliberate and why, and what I'm exploring. It's not just the directors. I know people go to the directors. Yes, but there's many craftsmen making a movie and many layers that create a film. And I want to understand, how do you put these things together? How do I use these tools to communicate to a broader audience? And it's how we're playing with aesthetics. And we were talking earlier, you and I, about stunts. And it's motion. Emotion is motion. And how do I understand what these tools are? Those are the things that have always fascinated me, always interested me. You mentioned... Less about talking about myself, believe me. I will. You know what I mean? I have some bad news for you. I know, I know, I know. I got more interested in you than hearing myself talk, you know? You mentioned stunts. Last year, I spent some time with Christopher McQuarrie, your Mission Impossible director, a longtime friend and collaborator. And... He's awesome. One of the things we just talked about was how dangerous this stuff you do is. And I could recite it. You have literally ridden a motorcycle off the edge of a cliff, and then deployed a parachute. You've hung off the side of multiple different styles of airplane. My question to you is, do you fear death? Look, I think you could look at my life and go, I like standing on the edge of a cliff. Physically and metaphorically. Meaning, I look at life as an adventure. And I always have. I want to understand people. I want to understand life and cultures. And if I wonder, what are those people? How do they feel? Do they think the way I do? Do they laugh at the same thing? How do I connect with them? I asked if you feared death. I mean, I do think that mortality has become... Particularly in the Mission films. I think audiences are actually watching to see, is this guy going to be okay? But here's the thing. How do we use these tools to create an emotional effect on an audience? And is it communicating what we want to communicate? So, do I fear death? No. But I don't mind... It's not like I'm not afraid. I don't mind the feeling. I understand life has certainties and uncertainties. And in making movies and living life, what interests me is like, let's move the uncertainties more into the certainties. But I want to create other uncertainties. So that we're moving forward. And it's part of the adventure of it. Where do you think that urge comes from to find the cliff? It's just who I am. I know my whole life, that's just who I am. Do you have a theory about why? It's just who I am. That's my theory. The thing is, is that I find people are people. And each person is really quite amazing. Has their own story, their own journey. Things that they're creating, what they're interested in. Because it seems like, I feel like there's people in your life that have stories about this too. Like, oh, he took me on an airplane and it was very scary. Or he took me on a helicopter and he pretended that we were going down. Like, it seems like it's not just on screen, right? We pretended we were going down. I think that's a Glenn Powell story. I think he did say that happened. Sorry, Glenn, if I have that wrong. So are you ever afraid on screen or off? I mean, it's like there's stuff where you want to feel that. You want to feel that uncertainty. Fear is like things of the unknown, but I haven't, I'm not afraid to feel afraid. I'm not afraid to feel afraid. And it's things that I, as I say, it's like, and I approach things in a way where I'm, I don't know, I don't know how to say it. It's like, I'm not afraid to be afraid. I'm not afraid to go, okay, I know this is a leap and let's take the jump. Let's go. Were you afraid of death? Are you afraid to be afraid? Are you? Do I fear death? I think so. Yeah, I certainly riding a motorcycle off a cliff, I would be afraid. Look, I know it's not for everybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think it is. Yeah, I think, I think I don't, I don't think it is. Look, this is a version of a cliff, right? Like, like, like, you know, talking to someone going to unknown territory. I think I do like the adrenaline hit of that. The physical danger, I might actually die. I'm not, I don't think that's for me. And you know what? Everyone has their own things of what they're, what they have to confront in life and what they feel is scary or, you know, whatever. So it's just, I'm someone who very much, I don't know, I just, I'm interested. I was reflecting on the kind of first thing that you guys put out about Digger was a kind of a two and a half minute feature ad about your sort of life on screen. Like, it's just, it's just a cut of many of your film performances. And then like a little bit of Digger. I wonder when you look at two and a half minutes of, you know, a life on screen, what do you feel? Like what's going through your head when you're watching that? You know, I think about the joy of being able to create the people that I have created with the amazing times. I've had the wonderful challenges that we've overcome to be able to make films and to have dreams as a kid, to be able to do this. That's what I look at. I see everyone involved in making it. I feel grateful about that. You know, I remember every moment, you know, when we're going through making these things and the evolution of those projects. Those are the things I think about. You've mentioned a couple of times already this being your childhood dream. And you used to actually write these dreams down, right? Am I correct about this? What I did was I write goals. I still, it's like you're looking at something. You write a goal and then you write underneath what are those things you need to learn to be able to accomplish those goals. So as I'm doing it, so I'm constantly learning new things. So I will learn a skill and then I'll apply it to movies or I'll look at movies and understand what does it take to get a camera here like this? And what lens is that? And what lighting creates this within this space? Or what architecture? How do they build something? Those things, how they come together and why something makes us feel a particular way. But that's a very adult point of view. You know, when you're a kid writing things down, I mean, I've heard you say that like the dreams were so big that the adults in your life reacted poorly to them, right? Not all of them, that's a generality. I mean, but my family, there's certain people that were, you know, I didn't say it. I stopped saying it because some of them did. And some, most were like, they were like, yeah, you're a little kid. But I think also children have a lot more going on than if parents or adults are listening. You know, they have their dreams and I've seen it, you know, where they have those dreams. And many times I've spoken to many different people where they saw it and they had this passion and that's what they were driving towards. That's what I did. I know, there's something sad though about people being like, this is too big and too scary for me. And then you stopping sharing it. Yeah, but I never let go of it. Yeah. I never let go of it. And I understood very early on, this is for me. And there's things that even when I started out and I told you, Zach, like I didn't talk about it. You know, I'm 18 years old. I've already had jobs and I've had to manage business. You know, I was like, I'm a CEO of my life, but I know the dreams that I want. I want to see what those people are like in those different countries. What is it like, that language? What are they saying? What's it like hearing that? And movies for me were an in. Now you have the internet and you can see things and it's all like that, but it's also going to these places. That was just me and I, and it is me. And it's, I want to know about that stuff. You have what I think of as like the very classical actor childhood, right? Was it like 15 schools in 16 years, something like that? I was writing characters and creating like, you know, creating characters very early on to make my family laugh, you know, to just, I just wanted to make them laugh. And, and I love telling stories, you know, and for me traveling in that way was, is, and it is an adventure. People go, where do you live? It's like, I, I live around the world. And that, that's a source of happiness for you. Not like a source of like, I have no home. I have a home. Everywhere I go. And I, I feel very much at home in places. And I, it's where I, what I like. There's a thing that you like to say, correct me if I get this wrong. It's about movies. You say, it's not what I do. It's who I am. Is that right? Yes. I actually wonder what you mean by that. That for me, it's making movies is, we're learning skills. We're communicating to the world. We're embracive of life, you know, making a movie. It doesn't, it's not one person. It's everyone making that film. I think when you say movies are not what I do, it's who I am. It makes me wonder like when you're not on a movie set, who are you? I'm me. I am me throughout. I'm always me. You know, I am always me. I am someone who is very interested in people, interested in life. I think people wonder like what you're doing on a random Tuesday when you're not on a movie set. You know what? I'm preparing for the next. I'm always studying something. I'm always learning something. Always. You've said to me already a couple of times, you're like, I don't talk about this before you talked about something. And I was reflecting like you haven't really sat down in a context like this one. Yeah. So yeah, for a long time, why not? Been busy, one. Very busy. And there's things that I want other artists to know. You know, they see it in the same way that, it's like, I want them to know. When people see a movie, you want it to look easy. I don't sit here. And understanding the joy of, that it's okay if it hurts. That it's hard. That it can be confusing and you don't know. If you look at my career, it's been, it's not like happenstance that I ended up in Prague at the time that I ended up in Prague. Or China when I was there. Or, you know, Dubai or wherever I, England, you know, going there in 1982, you know, to make Legend with Ridley Scott. And I would see those doors that open. Here's an opportunity. When I look at that time, I sincerely mean like, I'm grateful for the amount of time that I've spent where people have shared their lives with me. Yeah, I have a question about that. But just to square the circle. So you're saying basically, you have not sat down in context like this one because you don't want to reveal the magic trick. I haven't just had the time where I'm like, and I'm looking at it. It's like the journey is, you know, and where we're going and the amount of things that I set in motion and decided I was going to do. And looking back on those things that I felt worked. Do you know what I mean? Like, I went for competence. I went for skill for whatever level that was. Being able to then go, oh, this is what I need to focus on because I'm also, I'm a teacher and I'm a student. So I'm having to educate people on cinema and movies. And I'm being, hearing what they think also. So I have a question. Well, one, what do we owe the honor then for you to slow down and talk to me? I'm sorry, I'm not switching for a compliment. No, it's just, no, it's, listen, it's very nice. It's like, this is, here we are, you know, first of all, I have to say the amount of time that COVID took when we're going through it. It was, we were in a dead sprint at a very long pace up against a lot of things to be able to, we wanted to keep everyone going and going through it and operating at a very, very high level. And just this is the time to be able to talk about it. There's some lore, again, Glenn Powell, Indiscreet, though he may be, talks about, I think there's a six hour video. Oh, he's not. I don't know, video, film, what would you call it? Six hour instructional. He was like, I sat in the theater and watched something that Tom put together about screen acting, I believe. It was just very basic. It was something where I'm going to have people understand, just to have a different concept of lenses and what the lens is and what the frame is. Just the same way as an actor on stage or the development of cinema where it started and what that frame means and how to understand that frame. There's just different layers of storytelling, of structure, but also to understand certain things so that you can forget about it, but that you get it. And this is information that you share with people. I sometimes hear people and sometimes that person as myself kind of refer to you as like the last movie star, but it sounds like you don't agree, that you're kind of mentoring a new generation. Look, first of all, I have to say, there's really talented actors. Do you know what I'm saying? Pitt is a great actor, great star, great charisma, and there's many, many, many. And I think that I want this art form. I'm on the set with great craftsmen as a young kid, and it's not just 1981 where they're there. It's their knowledge comes from, it's generational. So as you're making movies, you're learning from other people, and then you're making it your own, but you're learning it is a skill making films. Acting is, you know, it's language, you know, and it's also that trailer is like showing this, it's language, it's visual language, it's verbal language, it's understanding, you know, comedy in its various forms and rhythms from Risky Business to Edge of Tomorrow, to Les Grossman to this kind of comedy drama or in drama in different ways, from An Eyes Wide Shut to A Color of Money, you know, and just as, you know, Magnolia, whatever you want to say. It's each one is, it takes preparation, it takes understanding to, and where you want to get to it, it's like, it just looks like you're not thinking about it. I want audiences to think about it. I don't want them to see it. I want them to just experience it. You turned 64 last week. Did that mean anything to you? It means I'm 64. Does it change the way you think about anything? I remember I once heard. It's just like, no. Does it change anything? When you look at this, does it like, it's like, man, I'm just saying like it doesn't at all. First of all, devastating impression of me. I'm going to be haunted by that. Why, by what? By the interviewing impression. I'm going to hear your voice in my head. How do you feel about that for the rest of my life? It's going to haunt me. I think the reason I was asking was. Here's the thing. I don't look at, I don't, if I could, it's like, I'm just, I'm living my life and I have always dreams, but I also know to accomplish those dreams, it takes effort and you need to understand life and skills. And it's a constant learning experience. The reason I was asking, like I once heard George Clooney say, like he had a point where he had to think basically like age wise, where he thought about screen acting differently. It was like a different part he was looking for. It was a different role on screen. And I was wondering if. I don't see, what I see is, is I see life in a different way of stories. I see it in a way of stories. And I don't, I don't see life in that way. I see life with this. It's like, you're looking at, you know, there's so many things that I enjoy and like doing. That's how I see life. I want to ask a question about, this is going to sound simplistic, but what it takes to be Tom Cruise. Because I feel like I've heard you talk before about, this isn't a natural thing. This isn't like you rolled out of bed and did it. No, I didn't roll out of bed. And I, as I said, you know, it was, I don't know, you know, you're a kid and you have a dream. I was always, I guess you call me precocious where, you know, I'd look at people and I'd look at their lives in movies. That's what I had. I had my secret plan that I had because I knew very early on, don't tell people you have dreams, you know. So it's still a heartbreaking thing to say. Yeah, but it's really, it's, and I've talked to many people that are like, sometimes you got to keep, you know, keep things to yourself, those dreams. And, you know, I'd have it, I'd write them on a board and I had them on my wall, you know, it wasn't, I want to be famous. You know, I definitely wanted to make movies, but I wanted to travel the world. And I wanted to know people and know life. And I always knew I can work. Like I'm a hard worker always. And I always thought inside myself, what did I know? I know I can, what I felt was I could outwork anyone. I didn't know there were barriers, meaning you're not supposed to on movie sets. You know, when I did Taps, I went and I shaved my head, you know, without telling the director. I showed up on set and I took my hat off and went into town. And, you know, cause he said, create the character. So I was creating the character and he looked at me, he's like, what'd you do? Everything was yes, sir, no, sir, yes, ma'am, no, ma'am. You know, I was born, my mother was- That's your background. My mother's Kentucky, very respectful of people. I was, the things that I was raised is just really respecting people. I always had a natural curiosity, always very interested. And I had a secret thing always I had for myself, which was always leave something better. You know, we lived in rented houses. So it was always like, make sure that the room is nicer. I was always looking, I guess, for what is the greatest amount of creation, the least amount of destruction. So if you look at my movies, even, it's like, I'm always there off camera. I'm always there. When you take, cause you are known for this, taking younger actors aside, directors, producers, and kind of just being like, this is how it's done. This is what you need to know. What are you telling them? Well, I'm also listening. I listen first. What do they want? Here's my first question. It's not me. I'm more interested in what are their goals? What do they want? And it's not just younger people. This is me when I was a kid. I know, it's like, I'm going, what are you interested in? Really? Yes. What is this movie about? You know, what's, what is this? When you're a kid, how do people react? Yeah, they'd be like, what, actually. But I'm curious, you know, I'm a new kid and I'm like, I guess I was just, it's like, what do you do? Where are you from? Were you, you know, where'd you get those shoes? And what are you studying? And what's happening? And, you know, I was a kid looking out the windows. Teachers are like, what's happening? You know, I will first want to know what, what things, what do they want to know about? What are they interested in? And then I get kind of interested in what they're interested in. You know, when I'm making a movie with different people, it's like, what do they think of life? And I'm interested in what do they think? I'll discuss with them what, what it means for me to make movies. And, you know, sometimes I'm always like, listen, try to know before you go. Like, don't just work with people. You've got to, who are they? What are they? What are they trying to do? Something you learned early, yeah. I had to learn early. You know, I was living in many different schools and it taught me about human behavior, about life, but it's a journey. So people that work with me, they know, I expect a lot and it's, and I'm upfront about it. It's like, the rumors are true. And do you want this? You know, yes, we're there. I'm like, trust me, the rumors are true. I'll be here before you, I'll be like, what experience do you want? And I'm very open. And it's not like we don't have a plan. We have scripts, we have plans, we're going through it. But I also feel the level of responsibility for, I don't know, I guess for everyone. Do you feel like you're like understood when you say this stuff that people, people get it? You know, there's things that I didn't say for many years. I had these things and why didn't I say it? Because I'm on the road and I wanted to understand this art form in its various forms. And I don't know how much sometimes they do. I know the people I work with. We all kind of feel the same thing. We want to do well. You know what I mean? We want to understand why do things work? Why don't they work? You know, when you start doing something, it's I'm an all-in kind of guy, Zach. I don't know what to say. I'm life, I'm coming right at it. You know what I mean? It's coming at me and I'm coming right at it. I'm a hundred percent. I am not a halfway kind of person, you know? People say, it's like, look, man, it's okay. Don't be afraid to fail, you know? And I never want to be like you hit that peak and it's like, there's always a new dream. You know, you're asking me about being 64. I'm going, there's so much life and there's always another dream. And there's times in my life where someone was like, you know, you've done so well. Like what else are you going to do? When I was a kid, I think we put our own barriers there. I think that a person without a dream is, they've decided not to live. I've tested it for myself. It's true for me. I've just have such big dreams. Maybe I, you know, and it's something that it doesn't stop. It's, you know, and it doesn't stop. And it's, as I said, I'm more interested in you than me talking about this. Like, again, I have bad news for you about this. I'm literally, I'm not like this person. It's like, there, I'm more interested. I don't tell people things. I'm more interested when I sit down with them and going, what do you want to know? Like, what do you want from your life? You know, what I did is what I did. When you hear other people's dreams, do they like make sense to you? You know, I don't know if I walk around and ask people that. I like to know what their dreams are. And do they make sense when you hear them? Oh yeah, they're beautiful. And you see how they're creating it. Those things you're going, wow. For better or worse, you're there. You decided to get in the car, man. You know, I mean, I hate to say it, but it's, you know, ask now for whom the bell tolls. You know? And when you say creating it, what do you mean? Meaning like, you decided what shoes to wear today. You decided the shirt. I did. There's an actual, like, the way I look at life is that has an effect. Those decisions are, you chose those things for whatever reason. And it's an emotional thing. You're not thinking about it. And it has a certain effect on the environment. I'm saying it as simplicity. It's like, what environment is it? What effect does it have? Look at the effects of choices and what are the results of that, you know? And we all know it. It's like you put a drop of pebble in a pond, you kind of see it ripple out. It does ripple out. Butterfly effect. We all have an effect. Some people say, look, I would just want to say hello, I'm a nobody. I said, please don't ever say that to me. I've never met a nobody in my entire life. Everyone has a story. Everybody's life has a journey and a story. And it's, if you take a moment and you're learning, it's fascinating. And it's interesting. And I'm interested. Look at the light in here. Look at the architecture. And seeing things where I'm looking at civilization and the designs and why the designs and how that affects and what happens. But it's all those things in terms of- I hear you say that and my head just spins. I'm like, is that really the level of what we're processing every day? Yes. But it's not that complicated. It's more emotional. It's more experiential than I'm just kind of analytically. But I can- But you're a very hourly director. I am. I say it. I am. Yeah, you ask why now. You kind of wake up and you realize, well, there's a few things I know. And if people want to know it in the same way that things were imparted to me and I want other artists, they're there, they're like, I'm nervous at this. That's okay. It's okay. Do I feel scared? Yeah, but I don't mind it. And what I mean by that, it's not some brave thing where I'm doing. It's like, it's okay. That's life. There's uncertainties. And your willingness to tolerate those uncertainties is taking you to the places that it has. Yeah. And you know what? The things that I do and sometimes, like even when I was a kid, they're like, oh, come on, Tom. You're so intense. I don't know what to say. I am intense. I got a very good sense of humor about it. I was like, well, I'm interested in something, but it's like, I want to learn it. I want to understand it. And you want to blast through the confusion and kind of build up that ability. And the certainty you can get is learning skills and learning those skills, but also being able to evaluate, do these tools work? It's like building bridges, engineering, they're theories. Does the theory work? When you build a bridge, can people drive across it? So the theory works. Flying, it's the whole thing. It's like, whatever it is, there's a theory and it's as accurate as it's in a practical, empirical way, did it work? That's all. There's the question of like, does the parachute deploy when you ride the motorcycle off the cliff? Yes. But then there must be the feeling that when it does and it must feel incredible. That's exactly it. I want to say in its simplicity to me, and it's always been, that's life. Now I want to train so I can open the parachute. You know what I mean? When I was a kid, I was a kid, literally, I was like, I took the monkey bars, I pulled it over and my mom was in the thing and I had like this GI Joe, you know, you throw it up. I've told this story before. A parachute goes down, rip the sheets off my bed, took ropes and I climbed the monkey bar, climb up on the roof, climb up on the high part and I jumped off. It didn't work. So you want to go, at that moment, I remember I was about four years old. I was like, there's something more to this. I went back, look at my GI Joe. I was like, okay, I don't understand this. But I'm not doing that again, but I'm going to figure it out one day, you know? And you did. Yeah, but that's, that's the stuff, man. Thank you. I didn't tell you, but I've recently dislocated my shoulder. So we got to be careful.